ECW San Antonio, Round 2 Match 2: #15 Batista vs. #18 Jushin Liger
- Thread starter Shocky
- Start date
Okay, this is simple. Batista sucks. Liger doesn't. Guys... please vote Liger.
If you're a kayfabe guy and want more reason for it... then just look where the match is taking place. There's no way Batista could ever handle the ECW environment. Hell, the one time he tried, he ended up crying like a little bitch about it. Dude couldn't handle the fans then, and he wouldn't be able to handle the fans now. And he would be facing someone who the ECW fans would obviously adore, rather then going up against someone else who the fans shitted on like his first and only match in an ECW venue.
Batista's strong and all that shit, but at the same time, he's too stupid and emotional to get past Liger in this type of environment. He would fuck himself up during his entrance, let alone when the match actually starts. And Liger, being the warrior he is, would jump all over Batista and eventually put him out for the 3 count. It's a guarantee.
Anyone who ever thinks someone like Batista would ever go over a Japanese legend in ECW of all places, you're nuts. Batista is just another Brakkus, and Jushin Liger is to Batista what Taz was to Brakkus.
If you're a kayfabe guy and want more reason for it... then just look where the match is taking place. There's no way Batista could ever handle the ECW environment. Hell, the one time he tried, he ended up crying like a little bitch about it. Dude couldn't handle the fans then, and he wouldn't be able to handle the fans now. And he would be facing someone who the ECW fans would obviously adore, rather then going up against someone else who the fans shitted on like his first and only match in an ECW venue.
Batista's strong and all that shit, but at the same time, he's too stupid and emotional to get past Liger in this type of environment. He would fuck himself up during his entrance, let alone when the match actually starts. And Liger, being the warrior he is, would jump all over Batista and eventually put him out for the 3 count. It's a guarantee.
Anyone who ever thinks someone like Batista would ever go over a Japanese legend in ECW of all places, you're nuts. Batista is just another Brakkus, and Jushin Liger is to Batista what Taz was to Brakkus.
Vote Liger
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
I'm going to probably have to pull out all my big guns for this match, given how much exposure Batista has. But, I'm going to wait until people give me reasons why they would vote for Batista, because, honestly, I can't think of many. Some people on this board love this guy, and I just don't get it. They say he's brief and to the point on this mic, but all I see week in and week out is a guy who says the same thing with the same condescending laugh and shit-eating grin on his face. Furthermore, I can't even think of a great match that this guy has had, except for his match with Cena this past Summerslam (and I am still trying to figure out how those two together pulled that match off).
On the other hand, I don't even know where to begin with the praise of Liger. After a severe ankle injury in the early 90s, he wasn't able to wrestle the high-flying style that he is best known for (and which greatly influenced the high-flying cruiserweight wrestling that we see today), but he turned lemons into lemonade by adopting a more technical style that was just as impressive. Furthermore, he's a versatile wrestler that can put on great matches with both heavyweights and cruiserweights, and, he is probably the most generous wrestler in all of Japan (like Mick Foley, Ric Flair, and The Rock during his last few years in WWE, Liger lets anyone go over him that needs the rub). Also, he's been in this business for almost 20 years, and, while his role isn't as prominent as it once was in New Japan, he is still one of their most dependable draws.
I'll probably have a lot more to say about Liger in the upcoming days, so, tune in if you are at all interested. Also, I will probably be doing some Batista bashing as well. I just wanted to make this post to let it be known that...
Pick: Jushin Liger
On the other hand, I don't even know where to begin with the praise of Liger. After a severe ankle injury in the early 90s, he wasn't able to wrestle the high-flying style that he is best known for (and which greatly influenced the high-flying cruiserweight wrestling that we see today), but he turned lemons into lemonade by adopting a more technical style that was just as impressive. Furthermore, he's a versatile wrestler that can put on great matches with both heavyweights and cruiserweights, and, he is probably the most generous wrestler in all of Japan (like Mick Foley, Ric Flair, and The Rock during his last few years in WWE, Liger lets anyone go over him that needs the rub). Also, he's been in this business for almost 20 years, and, while his role isn't as prominent as it once was in New Japan, he is still one of their most dependable draws.
I'll probably have a lot more to say about Liger in the upcoming days, so, tune in if you are at all interested. Also, I will probably be doing some Batista bashing as well. I just wanted to make this post to let it be known that...
Pick: Jushin Liger
I'm not going to state my case either way now, because I am undecided, but I will say this. People can say what they want about Batista's credentials as a wrestler in ECW, the cold hard facts of it is this is as follows.
Throughout his entire career, Batista has lost two cage mathes and two elimination chambers, in one of which he was acting as HHH's security. They are the only gimmick matches he's ever lost.
He has beaten HHH in a Hell in the Cell and HBK in a stretcher match, but more importantly, he's beaten brawler JBL in a No Holds Barred, Undertaker in a Hell in a Cell, The Great Khali in a punjabi prison match, and the Dudleys in a table match with Flair. Instantly, you can see that Batista is one of the most successful ever in gimmick matches, so don't vote against Batista for this being in ECW.
I'll have to have a think about who I end up backing here, but by no means is this an obvious answer.
Throughout his entire career, Batista has lost two cage mathes and two elimination chambers, in one of which he was acting as HHH's security. They are the only gimmick matches he's ever lost.
He has beaten HHH in a Hell in the Cell and HBK in a stretcher match, but more importantly, he's beaten brawler JBL in a No Holds Barred, Undertaker in a Hell in a Cell, The Great Khali in a punjabi prison match, and the Dudleys in a table match with Flair. Instantly, you can see that Batista is one of the most successful ever in gimmick matches, so don't vote against Batista for this being in ECW.
I'll have to have a think about who I end up backing here, but by no means is this an obvious answer.
Batista is strong. Liger isn't. Batista can hurt Liger with chairs. Liger can't hurt Batista with chairs. Batista has a picture on Wikipedia. Liger doesn't have a picture on Wikipedia. Vote Batista.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Liger in a classic. There are cruiserweights, and then there are cruiserweights like Liger. This man might be the greatest light heavyweight wrestler of all time. Jushin Liger has a very great hardcore personality that he breaks out for just such an occasion known as Kishin Liger. This character was fucking insane. Batista would try to do some power move and Liger would be able to get out of it. Liger runs all over the place and finally lands a brain buister onto a chair to win it.
It's...Baylariat!
Team Finnley Baylor
There is no logical reason for Batista to win this match. He's slow, one track minded, and has only one strong suit. His power. If he's able to get his hands on Jushin Thunder Liger, he can hurt him. But he won't. Liger is a solid ring technician who can get down with the hardcore wrestling as well.
I hope for wrestling's sake, that Liger is close to Batista in the voting. I'm voting for Liger, simply because I'd feel dirty for voting for Batista.
Vote: Liger
I hope for wrestling's sake, that Liger is close to Batista in the voting. I'm voting for Liger, simply because I'd feel dirty for voting for Batista.
Vote: Liger
Look what happened to Batista when he had a match in front of ECW fans.
[youtube]oiVdJmHPmyA[/youtube]
Pretty much the exact opposite to Cena. The same thing would probably happen again. He'd brobably become even more bumbling that usual.
Although I might vote for him because he'd be so upset by the fans that he's probably drop Liger on his head.
[youtube]oiVdJmHPmyA[/youtube]
Pretty much the exact opposite to Cena. The same thing would probably happen again. He'd brobably become even more bumbling that usual.
Although I might vote for him because he'd be so upset by the fans that he's probably drop Liger on his head.
As Tasty mentioned, Batista has great success in gimmick matches. But aside from that, Batista has a history of just plain winning matches he's not expected too, especially over the last year. He beat Jericho in an upset to win the World Championship, beat John Cena (The Best in the World) at SummerSlam (in impressive fashion), and beat Randy Orton clean a month before Orton went on to win the Royal Rumble.
Batista has a history of running through guys he isn't expected to. Liger is good, but not enough to stop The Animal.
Batista has a history of running through guys he isn't expected to. Liger is good, but not enough to stop The Animal.
And hurting himself when he shouldn't.
He lost it 8 days later.
Kayfabe he injured the most important wrestler in the company.
Had a four month rest after a simple kick to the head.
You talk like Batista isn't a former 4 time World Heavyweight Champion.
Liger isn't Mark Henry or Randy Orton, if we're talking kayfabe.
Okay. And what cage will Liger be escaping to win this match? Oh, that's right: it's not a cage match.
I know, he fucked John-boy up something mighty. Imagine what he does to Liger.
The Punt = death.
We are in kayfabe, right? Orton kicks hard, Show punches hard. But Liger doesn't have weapons as powerful as either of those.
He lost it the first time because of injury after getting beatdown with a cage door.
He lost the it the third time in a clusterfuck triple-threat where Edge randomly had clones running around.
He lost it the fourth time because Jericho escaped the cage. Not a strong loss.
The only strong title loss for him was at WM23. And Liger isn't The Undertaker.
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Let me ask you a question: do you think any of the wrestlers you listed could hang with The Great Muta/Keiji Mutoh? I think the only one who could out of your whole list is The Undertaker. Liger has lost to Muta/Mutoh under both of his gimmicks, once as a cruiserweight and once as a heavyweight just one or two pounds above 225 pounds. But, on both of those occasions, Muta/Mutoh had a hell of tough time taking down someone whom you are discounting so much.
Also, I think Liger, who, in his prime, was a cruiserweight built like a brickhouse, would have no problem giving Batista a concussion with a chair. So, to say that Liger couldn't do as much harm to Batista with a chair as Big Show did with his fist and Randy Orton did with his foot is just straight-up wrong, not something that I just disagree with, but something that is straight-up wrong.
Lastly, if you think about coming in here talking about power and how Batista would swat him away like a fly, then I'll just come in with videos showing how much punishment Liger can take and a video that shows Liger both manhandling people that are similar in weight like sacks of feathers and powerbombing Samoa Joe.
Built like a brick, Tdigle?
He's a chubby Power Ranger.
Batista is built like a tank. He would kill him in this ring, a WWE ring, a WCW ring, or a TNA ring...
Literally.
He's a chubby Power Ranger.
Batista is built like a tank. He would kill him in this ring, a WWE ring, a WCW ring, or a TNA ring...
Literally.
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Built like a brick, Tdigle?
He's a chubby Power Ranger.
Batista is built like a tank. He would kill him in this ring, a WWE ring, a WCW ring, or a TNA ring...
Literally.
Yeah, except this isn't a shoot fight (in which I think Liger would still kill him, as Batista isn't mobile for shit), and it's in ECW. Also, way to select the pictures
This is more like it:
He's built a lot like Rey Mysterio is now. Your point? He's still chubby.
Batista isn't very fast. Liger isn't very strong. That's a wash. Liger could run around Batista for a few minutes, but all it takes is Batista catching him and it's as good as over. I can't see Liger kicking out of a Batista Bomb, much less a Batista Bomb through a table. I could see Batista kicking out a Brainbuster. He's kicked out of worse.
Batista isn't very fast. Liger isn't very strong. That's a wash. Liger could run around Batista for a few minutes, but all it takes is Batista catching him and it's as good as over. I can't see Liger kicking out of a Batista Bomb, much less a Batista Bomb through a table. I could see Batista kicking out a Brainbuster. He's kicked out of worse.
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Yet, you have yet to show any proof that this is the case. I know Batista isn't fast: a lot of his matches require that he go toe-to-toe with his opponents and remain close to them so he doesn't have to actually move that much around the ring, save going to the ropes, shaking them, and stomping down his foot like a bull. You want proof of Batista not being able to hang with someone with just a little bit of speed and stamina:
[youtube]8t4ZWUXha88[/youtube]
[youtube]PyOP5HomJY8[/youtube]
[youtube]PyOP5HomJY8[/youtube]
Damn, I can't imagine how that would have been had there been no steel cage. At least the steel cage gave Jericho time to breathe, as he had to wait for Batista to chase him down from the top of the cage a few times.
Now, where's your proof about Liger? Plan on going to Google Image again to post deceptive photos? Anyway, do you even know that much about Liger? Something tells me that you don't, or else you would be trying to make better points than Batista is so much bigger and charges around the ring like a bull, thus there's no way he can lose to Liger, because Liger's fat and small.
I read his Wikipedia page, which told me that he lost a lot.
On top of Batista being twice the size of Jushin Liger and much stronger, he beat The Great Khali in Khali's own Punjabi Prison match, something that not even The Undertaker could do. He looked quite mobile in that match, jumping from place to place and climbing like a cruiserweight. Also, don't forget that The Great Khali manhandled Rey Mysterio, who is of similar build and size and skill to Jushin Liger. He dominated a better Rey Mysterio than the Rey Mysterio that took Jushin Liger to his very limit at Starcade. If Batista could defeat the man that manhandled Liger's equal in his own match, what's to say that he couldn't defeat Jushin Liger in an enviroment that doesn't favor either man?
On top of Batista being twice the size of Jushin Liger and much stronger, he beat The Great Khali in Khali's own Punjabi Prison match, something that not even The Undertaker could do. He looked quite mobile in that match, jumping from place to place and climbing like a cruiserweight. Also, don't forget that The Great Khali manhandled Rey Mysterio, who is of similar build and size and skill to Jushin Liger. He dominated a better Rey Mysterio than the Rey Mysterio that took Jushin Liger to his very limit at Starcade. If Batista could defeat the man that manhandled Liger's equal in his own match, what's to say that he couldn't defeat Jushin Liger in an enviroment that doesn't favor either man?
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Transitivity doesn't work here. Essentially, you're saying the following
1) Batista beat The Great Khali
2) The Great Khali manhandled Rey Mysterio, Jr.
3) Rey Mysterio, Jr. barely lost to Jushin Liger
4) Conclusion: Thus, Jushin Liger would lose to Batista
But, then all I have to do is say the following:
1) Jushin Liger beat Rey Mysterio, Jr., at Starrcade 1996
2) Rey Mysterio, Jr., beat Eddie Guerrero at Halloween Havoc 1997
3) Eddie Guerrero beat Kurt Angle at WM XX
4) Kurt Angle beat Shawn Michaels at WM XXI
5) Shawn Michaels beat Batista at Backlash 2008
6) Conclusion: Thus, Batista would lose to Jushin Liger
Also, two more notes:
1) Punjabi Prison Match: This might be to Batista's advantage if it was in any of the gimmick rounds, but it does nothing for him here. This match didn't even require Batista to pin The Great Khali; all he had to was get out of the two cells. Jushin Liger could have done this in about 10 seconds, as Khali couldn't have chased him given how shit his knees are.
2) Rey Mysterio, Jr., was 10 times the wrestler he was in WCW than he has been and still is in WWE. Rey Mysterio, Jr., only seems better in WWE because WCW, before Vince Russo, had something known as credible booking. Thus, he really only fought guys that were his size. Had he been in WWE at that time, there's no doubt in my mind that he would have been pushed to the moon (well, maybe not, as Stone Cold's Era was just around the corner, but he definitely would have been made to be a much bigger threat to big men than he was in WCW).
"Strength" is such a fucking cop out. It doesn't give anyone an advantage in pro wrestling (ESPECIALLY in ECW) or even a real fight for that matter if the opponent knows what the fuck theyre doing. Let me give you two examples of this.
Look at this match here between Batista and Rey Mysterio. Mysterio wins this bout by disqualification, but would have definitely won it in ECW with a pinfall. Just watch how before the DQ comes how big of a fight Mysterio puts up throughout the match. And Mysterio is a lot smaller then Jushin Liger, and this match takes place in a WWE ring:
Now, here's a shoot fight between Fedor Emelianenko and Hong-Man Choi. Fedor is 6'0 and 230 pounds, while Hong-Man Choi is listed at 7'2 and 330 pounds. And I bet before watching it, you already know who wins. And look how fast it took for Fedor to defeat this guy.
So you see, size and strength doesn't mean ANYTHING in a fight or a pro wrestling match. And in pro wrestling, it DEFINITELY doesn't mean anything in Extreme Championship Wrestling. Taz was the most dominating person in the history of the company and he's only 5'8. In ECW, just like in real life, skill defeats size every time and there's no doubt that Jushin Liger has twice the skill Batista could ever dream of having.
Look at this match here between Batista and Rey Mysterio. Mysterio wins this bout by disqualification, but would have definitely won it in ECW with a pinfall. Just watch how before the DQ comes how big of a fight Mysterio puts up throughout the match. And Mysterio is a lot smaller then Jushin Liger, and this match takes place in a WWE ring:
[youtube]bTrU4JSj7uE[/youtube]
Now, here's a shoot fight between Fedor Emelianenko and Hong-Man Choi. Fedor is 6'0 and 230 pounds, while Hong-Man Choi is listed at 7'2 and 330 pounds. And I bet before watching it, you already know who wins. And look how fast it took for Fedor to defeat this guy.
[youtube]2i0iZcLIrTQ[/youtube]
So you see, size and strength doesn't mean ANYTHING in a fight or a pro wrestling match. And in pro wrestling, it DEFINITELY doesn't mean anything in Extreme Championship Wrestling. Taz was the most dominating person in the history of the company and he's only 5'8. In ECW, just like in real life, skill defeats size every time and there's no doubt that Jushin Liger has twice the skill Batista could ever dream of having.
Vote Liger
I'm voting for Liger here, as I laugh at the irony of him eliminating someone who uses one of his trademark moves as a finisher.
Batista is a brick shithouse. He's strong, there's no denying that. But he won't be able to keep up with Liger. Liger will do just about everything to keep the advantage here, and the fans will be 100% behind him. Batista will set him up for the "Batista Bomb", and Liger will reverse it, and use Batista's own momentum to end this with a Liger Bomb.
It'll be a good match, but there won't be any point where anyone in the arena will think Batista could win.
Oh yeah, and:
Batista is a brick shithouse. He's strong, there's no denying that. But he won't be able to keep up with Liger. Liger will do just about everything to keep the advantage here, and the fans will be 100% behind him. Batista will set him up for the "Batista Bomb", and Liger will reverse it, and use Batista's own momentum to end this with a Liger Bomb.
It'll be a good match, but there won't be any point where anyone in the arena will think Batista could win.
Oh yeah, and:
Mantaur Rodeo Clown
X-Pac Rules
ummm Jake? Voting for Batista is a must for you otherwise you'd be no better than ricky steamboat, ric flair, or any of those fans out there. Hypocrites! Hey that Ric Flair line rhymes.
Liger because Batista would get rolled in ECW
Ive not seen much of Liger but from what i have seen on Youtube he seems to be another Rey Mysterio. His finsher is a running powerbomb. I seriously doubt he can get Batista up for a running powerbomb, it's a no brainer here, Batista is a beast one spear and a Batista Bomb later and Batista advances.
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
I call bullshit on this one. I hesitated posting the link for the following match, as it is short and during Samoa Joe's undefeated streak in TNA, but, here's his match with Liger at Bound For Glory I/2005:
Samoa Joe vs. Jushin Liger at Bound For Glory I/2005
Making the safe assumption here that Joe weighs just as much, if not more than, Batista, I have three questions to ask you:
1) What's that at 6:58? Isn't that Liger suplexing Samoa Joe over his head?
2) What's that at 7:48? Isn't that Liger power bombing Samoe Joe?
3) Also, this was in 2005, right? So, isn't what you're viewing a way-past-his-prime, 40-year-old Jushin Liger suplexing and powerbombing the Samoan Submission Machine?
Also, by saying that Liger reminds you of Rey Mysterio, Jr., you are both paradoxically complimenting and insulting him. You're complimenting him because Mysterio, Jr., is 10X the worker that Batista will ever be. But, you're insulting him because Mysterio, Jr., can't compere with Liger; Mysterio, Jr., is one of the most significant cruiserweights of all time, but, in the end, I don't think he can quite compare to Liger (close, but no cigar).
I've seen more from Jushin Liger post brain tumor then I have out of the entire cancerous career out of Dave Batista. Batista has had two good matches hi sentire career, and both were with workers far superior to him dragging his ass threw the routine. Batista is a giant, immobile sloth that si about as one dimensional as it gets. Batista is power, and nothing but power.
Liger is better then Batista. He can wear the big sloppy bastard down with multiple moves, and Liger is strong enough to throw Batista around that ring as well. Liger is one of teh best Light Heavyweights ever, in my opinion, and a great Light Heavyweight will beat a garbage heavyweight any day of the week.
Liger is better then Batista. He can wear the big sloppy bastard down with multiple moves, and Liger is strong enough to throw Batista around that ring as well. Liger is one of teh best Light Heavyweights ever, in my opinion, and a great Light Heavyweight will beat a garbage heavyweight any day of the week.
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