ECW Region, Calgary Subregion, Round 1: (6) Chris Jericho vs. (27) Samoa Joe

[Con T.]

Here's the point - Jericho can beat the two top wrestlers on the planet in a single .

Well, Darling Nicky, two can play at that game; Jericho can beat those man; he can also lose to the Wendys Chick.

[YouTube]f18JEDMlS0k[/YouTube]

Clean, Nick. Clean

If you are going kayfabe, and I'll indulge you with doing so, shouldn't we at least consider that Jericho has some bad, bad losses, too? Truth is, Jericho loses a lot. What you're forgetting is that Joe beat Angle when he was just starting to come into the company. By TNA's standards, it was Hogan coming to WCW, and doing the job for Flair at the Clash. Yes, I get you're going to see me saying TNA as a bad thing, but it wasn't. Jericho has got plenty of those losses; man can win, but can also lose at the drop of a Fozzy album

 

[The Crock]

Oh yeah, always doing something, huh? You mean like that time Creative had nothing for him, so they stuck him with Edge, and then Big Show, in a tag team in the mid card? Sounds just like what you're saying about Joe now, don't it? If you wanna tell me Samoa Joe is not being used well now, fine, but you gotta admit Jericho has plenty of times where he gets to the main event, and then gets brought right back to the mid card. Surely you remember in 2001, where he was feuding with Steve Austin, the greatest name in wrestling. What happened? King of the Ring 2001 happened; shit buyrate, an Jericho goes back down to the mid card.

Jericho ain't the only one in this match to get pushed down to the mid card, and at the end of the day, Joe is just better at getting me interested in his matches, and how he does.

The thing is, Jericho was still doing something. There was a time when Joe was scarcely appearing on TNA TV and when he was on TV, I didn't find him particularly entertaining -- he got a little complacent it seems (the Nation of Violence just sucked), or I was just used to some of his better work. Jericho -- as I've already said -- has been an upper midcarder for the better part of his career, but he's always had something to do.

I don't take away from Joe for being in a midcard spot, but for someone who you deemed the "top guy," that just didn't seem fitting. I like what Samoa Joe is doing right now, I'm enjoying his team with Magnus; however, this is the first success he's had in quite a few years. For all the great success he's had, he's had some monumental failures. I can't look at the four good years Joe had and make a judgement based purely off of that.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Jericho can beat those man; he can also lose to the Wendys Chick.

[YouTube]f18JEDMlS0k[/YouTube]

Clean, Nick. Clean

How many bums has Joe lost to? Dozens. Wrestlers lose, that's the reality of it. However, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, when has Joe beaten anyone in the realm of Austin or Rock? Kurt Angle. Jericho has beaten him, too.

I'm not arguing Joe couldn't have beaten Rock or Austin had he been given the chance. I'm saying he didn't, so I don't know he could have. I know Jericho can, and I know Jericho can perform in a tournament-style setting.

If you are going kayfabe, and I'll indulge you with doing so, shouldn't we at least consider that Jericho has some bad, bad losses, too? Truth is, Jericho loses a lot. What you're forgetting is that Joe beat Angle when he was just starting to come into the company. By TNA's standards, it was Hogan coming to WCW, and doing the job for Flair at the Clash. Yes, I get you're going to see me saying TNA as a bad thing, but it wasn't. Jericho has got plenty of those losses; man can win, but can also lose at the drop of a Fozzy album

Both can lose, and have. Joe has done jack shit within TNA over the past few years, and has lost to some real turds. Both are capable of dropping down the card, so they almost even out. You can slice this however you like, but in the end, Jericho has the experience in this setting, and has proven he can beat the best of the best. Same can't be said for Joe.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

"Jericho has been Stone Cold and The Rock in the same night."

"Joe hasn't beaten the big names that Jericho has."

I fear that this is going to be the lasting image of this thread. I can't let it happen.

It's just hard for me to envision Joe losing to the Codebreaker and Jericho hasn't been that strong in submissions. I don't see any run-ins happening or beltshots or shit like that. I spare Jericho the humiliation of tapping because that's only reserved for John Cena.

 

[shattered dreams]

If you want to break it down into a craft argument here is one pertinent fact about the losing. When Joe loses everybody looks like shit, when Jericho loses everyone looks great. Jericho managed to do all that losing and still stay on top of the WWE even after leaving the company several times. Joe lost a couple matches in TNA and then he hasn't sniffed the main event since even though he was signed long-term. Joe can't control his temper and Jericho is a good enough wrestler to trade some holds with Joe and stay alive long enough for the mistake to happen. He would mind rape Joe relentlessly until the ninjas showed up and finished the job.

 

[Con T.]

I know Jericho can, and I know Jericho can perform in a tournament-style setting.

Funny. You do realize in the 2000 King of the Ring, Jericho lost in the first round to Kurt Angle, the guy who you tried to marginalize the validity of Joe's win, right? So this whole experience thing is great... Just understand he has a history of losing early in tourneys, too.


So, essentially, you're saying because Joe comes from a different era, and a different company, he shouldn't get the nod. Joe's beaten some of the best wrestlers that are now in the E as we speak; Punk and Bryan. He's beaten big names, and unless you wanted Joe to get on a time machine and go to 1999, I don't know why I should hold it against him that he never faced Rock and Austin.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

"Jericho has been Stone Cold and The Rock in the same night."

"Joe hasn't beaten the big names that Jericho has."

I fear that this is going to be the lasting image of this thread. I can't let it happen.

Why not? Do you hate sound logic that much?

It's just hard for me to envision Joe losing to the Codebreaker and Jericho hasn't been that strong in submissions. I don't see any run-ins happening or beltshots or shit like that. I spare Jericho the humiliation of tapping because that's only reserved for John Cena.

Okay, fine. Jericho grabs a handful of tights. He throws a chair to Joe and drops to the mat. He tapes Joe to the ring post Flair-style. Point being - Jericho thinks Joe right into the ground. That's how he wins.

If you want to break it down into a craft argument here is one pertinent fact about the losing. When Joe loses everybody looks like shit, when Jericho loses everyone looks great. Jericho managed to do all that losing and still stay on top of the WWE even after leaving the company several times. Joe lost a couple matches in TNA and then he hasn't sniffed the main event since even though he was signed long-term. Joe can't control his temper and Jericho is a good enough wrestler to trade some holds with Joe and stay alive long enough for the mistake to happen. He would mind rape Joe relentlessly until the ninjas showed up and finished the job.

Another solid path to a Jericho victory.

 

[Big Sexy]

[YOUTUBE]RqQCTUJoeYc[/YOUTUBE]

Everyone has embarrassing losses. People can point to Jericho losing a lot and Samoa Joe having a dominant run in TNA over a few year period but at the end of the day Jericho has been near the main event in the biggest and best wrestling company in the world for over a decade. As TNA has started to bring in bigger names and former WWE stars, Samoa Joe has been phased out of upper echelon of TNA. Blame creative all you want but these are facts.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Funny. You do realize in the 2000 King of the Ring, Jericho lost in the first round to Kurt Angle, the guy who you tried to marginalize the validity of Joe's win, right?

I didn't attempt to marginalize Angle, I said both men had beaten him.

And if we're going by each man in his prime, Jericho was just short of his prime in 2000. We'll call that loss a learning experience. Cool?

So this whole experience thing is great... Just understand he has a history of losing early in tourneys, too.

I'll give you that. I can see him losing early... just not to Samoa Joe.

So, essentially, you're saying because Joe comes from a different era, and a different company, he shouldn't get the nod.

No, I'm saying Jericho is a proven winner (and loser) among the greats. I suppose you can give Joe the nod, but it wouldn't make much sense. Not to me, at least.

Joe's beaten some of the best wrestlers that are now in the E as we speak; Punk and Bryan.

When they end up anywhere near Austin and Rock, we can talk about them. Until then, they mean little when being compared to Steve Austin and The Rock.

He's beaten big names, and unless you wanted Joe to get on a time machine and go to 1999, I don't know why I should hold it against him that he never faced Rock and Austin.

We're analyzing a hypothetical situation. That's all I have to go on. Jericho, while being a loser from time to time, has beaten tougher competition on bigger stages, in a tournament setting.

I'd go a different route with this... if I needed to. I don't believe I do.

 

[Con T.]

Very well then, let's go ahead and call that loss a learning experience. What do we call that loss to RVD in his first match of the 2002 KOTR?

Or, are we arguing that isn't his prime again?

The main basis of your argument is that TNA is a smaller promotion, and therefore I should take Joe beating pretty much all the same names as Jericho has, and have them mean less. Sure, Joe hasn't beaten Rock, Austin, or Cena. Not like Jericho's beaten Cena either, but it seems we're still back to Jericho beat Rock and Austin on the same night.

And, from there, if I may move out of kayfabe for a second... Do you really think that if Triple H wasn't out with his quad injury, we'd be discussing this momentous night for Chris? I'd theorize that Jericho was a placeholder for Triple H, someone to keep the title, until Triple H came back.

Actually, that sounds pretty darn realistic to me. Jericho is the guy to hold the belt... Until the bigger star Triple H gets back

 

[Big Sexy]

I see a lot of complaining about the Rock and Austin's names getting brought up too much, but on Samoa Joe's side I'm seeing Kurt Angle's name getting thrown around just as much. The Joe/Angle feud was great but they haven't had a singles match in 4 years. I know Ausin/Rock was a decade ago but you can find big victories and big feuds for Jericho all throughout his main event career. The last couple years Joe hasn't really had any major feuds against top talent. In fact as more talent comes into TNA, the number of losses for Joe continues to go up.

 

[GI Cake]

And that has always been Jericho's issue; you can't take him seriously as a threat. At all. There is nothing threatening about him. Joe looks like a man who will kill you; Jericho doesn't have that same credibility. Furthermore, Jericho can have funny lines; that doesn't mean his promos are all that better, or that good at all. His promos are all based around either quips and jokes, or big words. It's an interesting character, but doesn't make you believe this man can kick your ass. Joe, on the other hand, makes you feel intimidated, makes you believe this guy could destroy me, given the chance

So your entire point in all of this is that because Joe is bigger and looks meaner than Chris Jericho, or looks more of a threat, that makes him the better wrestler out of the two? If that were the case, than Joe will take the win. But we are talking about a match. Jericho has faced bigger, larger, and stronger foes than Joe. And while he may be intimated, he doesn't back down and use his ring sense and awareness to win the match. Jericho has gotten under the skins of guys like Triple H. A man who is known for mind games. Not only that, a man who is stronger, and looks more dangerous than Samoa Joe.

Next time you want to debate, rather than just using insults and the like, have some validity to what you say, Panny.

Or maybe next time you use some real points for Joe to win over Jericho other than. "Well, he looks scarier."

 

[The Brain]

So your entire point in all of this is that because Joe is bigger and looks meaner than Chris Jericho, or looks more of a threat, that makes him the better wrestler out of the two? If that were the case, than Joe will take the win. But we are talking about a match. Jericho has faced bigger, larger, and stronger foes than Joe. And while he may be intimated, he doesn't back down and use his ring sense and awareness to win the match. Jericho has gotten under the skins of guys like Triple H. A man who is known for mind games. Not only that, a man who is stronger, and looks more dangerous than Samoa Joe.




Or maybe next time you use some real points for Joe to win over Jericho other than. "Well, he looks scarier."

But he always lost to Triple H. Nobody is denying Jericho's ability to hang with a top star. Nobody is questioning his ability to put on a good match. The fact of the matter is he loses a lot more often than he wins. If these two were to match up against each other I have little doubt that Jericho would be asked to do the job to make Joe look good.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

So your entire point in all of this is that because Joe is bigger and looks meaner than Chris Jericho, or looks more of a threat, that makes him the better wrestler out of the two? If that were the case, than Joe will take the win. But we are talking about a match. Jericho has faced bigger, larger, and stronger foes than Joe. And while he may be intimated, he doesn't back down and use his ring sense and awareness to win the match. Jericho has gotten under the skins of guys like Triple H. A man who is known for mind games. Not only that, a man who is stronger, and looks more dangerous than Samoa Joe.




Or maybe next time you use some real points for Joe to win over Jericho other than. "Well, he looks scarier."

HHH is stronger and looks more dangerous than Samoa Joe? I don't about that one, bub. I haven't exactly seen HHH pull off feats of strength like some of his counterparts have and Samoa Joe from 2005-2008 looked like a guy who was going to rip your head, eat it, and spit it out into the front row.

Brain mentioned that losing to HHH part as well. Just making sure we got that covered concerning the master of mindgames.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I have lost some serious respect for some in this thread.

Jericho wins. Chris Jericho has victories over Triple H, Shawn Michaels, The Rock, Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, John Cena, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Randy Orton, Edge, Christian but to name a dozen. Who has Joe beat? Angle, Sting, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Bryan Danielson, Rob Van Dam to name a few, half of which Jericho has victories over.

Whether you believe Jericho is overrated or not, he is beyond superior to Samoa Joe. Get over yourselves. I'm actually questioning a few in this thread as genuine wrestling fans after reading the piss which has been produced.

Chris Jericho is a veteran of nearly twenty years. I've been a fan of Samoa a lot longer than a good majority of you, I've been watching him since he debuted in Ring of Honor, most of you only know of his TNA work, I've seen Jericho's work in CMLL, WAR in Japan, ECW, WCW and WWE and Joe doesn't hold a candle to Chris Jericho. Samoa Joe winning here is bullshit. What's Joe doing now? He's in a thrown together tag team because they'd nothing better to do with him. What's Jericho doing? He's feuding with the WWE Champion while still maintaining his reputation as on of the best heels in the business.

Genuinely sickened by half of you. I rarely say that to respected posters, but Jericho losing to Joe? I've been following one for a majority of his career and the other for more or less the entire of his career. Jericho wins, without question.

 

[Con T.]

You got anything besides insults, guilt trips, and some names?

Just about every name you've brought up, Jericho has lost to, and lost in sound fashion. I understand you like Jericho, but it isn't as though Jericho hasn't been put in random tag teams before when he's had nothing to do. Or have we forgotten Jerishow, the Unamericans, Christian and Edge as swinging buddies who bet one of those Canadian dollars on Sleeping with Trish?

That did wind up with him losing at Wrestlemania against Christian, right?

It's an Internet tournament; if you have that much vitriol over it, then by golly, I commend you on your passion. But that doesn't change that I think Samoa Joe is better

 

[shattered dreams]

Not like Jericho's beaten Cena either

Actually Jericho pinned Cena the first time they faced each other. Not exactly doing much for the if Joe went to WWE the first thing they would do is have him defeat Jericho argument. Jericho has been in matches where he was booked like he belonged with pretty much all the top guys of his generation, you just can't say that about Joe.

 

[The Brain]

I have lost some serious respect for some in this thread.

Jericho wins. Chris Jericho has victories over Triple H, Shawn Michaels, The Rock, Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, John Cena, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Randy Orton, Edge, Christian but to name a dozen. Who has Joe beat? Angle, Sting, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Bryan Danielson, Rob Van Dam to name a few, half of which Jericho has victories over.

Whether you believe Jericho is overrated or not, he is beyond superior to Samoa Joe. Get over yourselves. I'm actually questioning a few in this thread as genuine wrestling fans after reading the piss which has been produced.

Chris Jericho is a veteran of nearly twenty years. I've been a fan of Samoa a lot longer than a good majority of you, I've been watching him since he debuted in Ring of Honor, most of you only know of his TNA work, I've seen Jericho's work in CMLL, WAR in Japan, ECW, WCW and WWE and Joe doesn't hold a candle to Chris Jericho. Samoa Joe winning here is bullshit. What's Joe doing now? He's in a thrown together tag team because they'd nothing better to do with him. What's Jericho doing? He's feuding with the WWE Champion while still maintaining his reputation as on of the best heels in the business.

Genuinely sickened by half of you. I rarely say that to respected posters, but Jericho losing to Joe? I've been following one for a majority of his career and the other for more or less the entire of his career. Jericho wins, without question.

It's only the first round and you're already getting worked up? We have a long way to go. Don't let it bother you man. This is all in good fun.

Of course Jericho wins. It's not like he loses every match he's in. You can't deny that he's lost a lot more often than he's won. All those guys you say Jericho has beaten have beaten him too and usually in the more high profile match. Jericho always puts on a good performance and makes his opponent look good. I'll say it again, if Joe debuted in the WWE next week I think Jericho would be jobbing to him to get him over. That's not an insult. People often make the mistake of thinking because someone votes against one of their favorites they are bashing them. We're just giving an opinion on a kayfabe match. Remember when Cena debuted? First thing he did was go over Jericho. This was long before he became a superstar. Jericho was used to get the new guy over. One of my all time favorite matches if Jericho vs. HBK from WM19. It was a beautiful match and I applaud Jericho for his performance. He lost. Jericho can still give a great performance in a losing effort to put over Joe.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

You got anything besides insults, guilt trips, and some names?

Just about every name you've brought up, Jericho has lost to, and lost in sound fashion. I understand you like Jericho, but it isn't as though Jericho hasn't been put in random tag teams before when he's had nothing to do. Or have we forgotten Jerishow, the Unamericans, Christian and Edge as swinging buddies who bet one of those Canadian dollars on Sleeping with Trish?

That did wind up with him losing at Wrestlemania against Christian, right?

It's an Internet tournament; if you have that much vitriol over it, then by golly, I commend you on your passion. But that doesn't change that I think Samoa Joe is better

You may think Samoe Joe is better you would also be wrong.

Chris Jericho has been thrown into random situations in the past, although your insinuation his team with Christian was random is absurd as there was built before them forming. They had success as a tag team, some would say they rate them highly as a tag team, they Main Evented a few editions of RAW in their peak. Not only that but when they did disband what came from it was another excellent match at Wrestlemania. And congratulations, Jericho did lose, too bad you forgot about how he took victories over Christian at Backlash of that year and in a Steel Cage match over Christian the night after Backlash.

Once again, Samoa Joe is an excellent wrestler, I'm actually educated on his work from the moment he stood a foot in a Ring of Honor ring to the moment he embarked on his journey with TNA. None of his accomplishments are even worthy of standing up to Chris Jericho, I'd even debate that the early part of Jericho's career, more in-depth being his tenure from CMLL, through Europe, Japan, ECW all the way until the moment he stood foot in WWE is more worthy than that of Joe's entire career. If anybody wants to take me up on that, throw the dice cause I'll gladly pick 'em up and throw them back in your face.

Once again, Jericho wins, hands down.

 

[Con T.]

Actually Jericho pinned Cena the first time they faced each other. Not exactly doing much for the if Joe went to WWE the first thing they would do is have him defeat Jericho argument. Jericho has been in matches where is was booked like he belonged with pretty much all the top guys of his generation, you just can't say that about Joe.

Against the likes of Chyna and Bob Holly?

Remember, that was his first legit angle in WWE, because he didn't really do all that much when he came in. They gave him Mr. Hughes, they took him away, and he wrestled some one off matches against Viscera. Not exactly the winning formula coming to the E.

And, while Jericho beat Cena his first match, at Vengeance that year, he put over Cena. Jericho seems to have a knack for putting folks over, and does it pretty damn often. Heath Slater. Clean. Sure, Jericho beats people, but he loses quite a lot to man. No shame, just isn't much of a shocker if Joer beats him

 

[JGlass]

I was under the impression that this year's competition didn't come down to who did more for the business, who made his opponents look better, or who made more money: it's about who is the better wrestler.

At his best, Joe put on better matches than Jericho. At his best, Joe was more dominant than Jericho. You can talk about longevity, but this is a wrestling tournament, and having a long, fruitful career isn't going to help you when it's one wrestler facing another based on skills alone. What's going to help you is skill, ability, strength, stamina, and wit. The only category that Jericho outdoes Joe in is wit, and it won't be enough to save him.

At his best, Joe was the most dominant wrestler not only in TNA, but in American professional wrestling. At Jericho's best, he was using sleazy tactics to beat WWF's best to win titles. I'll take the dominating pure athlete over the two-bit showman in a competition based on wrestling.

 

[Con T.]

You may think Samoe Joe is better you would also be wrong.

Chris Jericho has been thrown into random situations in the past, although your insinuation his team with Christian was random is absurd as there was built before them forming. They had success as a tag team, some would say they rate them highly as a tag team, they Main Evented a few editions of RAW in their peak. Not only that but when they did disband what came from it was another excellent match at Wrestlemania. And congratulations, Jericho did lose, too bad you forgot about how he took victories over Christian at Backlash of that year and in a Steel Cage match over Christian the night after Backlash.

Once again, Samoa Joe is an excellent wrestler, I'm actually educated on his work from the moment he stood a foot in a Ring of Honor ring to the moment he embarked on his journey with TNA. None of his accomplishments are even worthy of standing up to Chris Jericho, I'd even debate that the early part of Jericho's career, more in-depth being his tenure from CMLL, through Europe, Japan, ECW all the way until the moment he stood foot in WWE is more worthy than that of Joe's entire career. If anybody wants to take me up on that, throw the dice cause I'll gladly pick 'em up and throw them back in your face.

Once again, Jericho wins, hands down.

I'm glad to see you've calmed down.

You seem to be under the belief that because I said Christian beat Jericho at Mania, that I've said Jericho consequentially lost all of the matches he's had against Christian. I'm just saying what I think even you'll come to agree, that Jericho has no issue doing the jobski, and happens to lose against the same names that he beats. Again, nothing wrong with that, but against someone who has looked as indestructible as Samoa Joe has in the last, I'm going to side with the guy who went on a rampage, and went 18 months unbeaten. Sorry, just the way I feel.

You can go on with his accomplishments; I've got my copy of his first book right here, but if you'd rather tell ms what i've already read and watched on my own, fine by me. I'll try and sum it up; he made a great lightheavyweight, and a great wrestler. He had great matches, but he'd often lose to Wild Pegasus, Liger, et all. By his own admission, light heavyweights weren't the top draw, so I'm not buying he drew the money in Japan, maybe in Mexico. Maybe. That said, he had great matches in Japan. Great. Samoa Joe ha great matches, too; three 5 star matches to zippo

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Against the likes of Chyna and Bob Holly?

Remember, that was his first legit angle in WWE, because he didn't really do all that much when he came in. They gave him Mr. Hughes, they took him away, and he wrestled some one off matches against Viscera. Not exactly the winning formula coming to the E.

And, while Jericho beat Cena his first match, at Vengeance that year, he put over Cena. Jericho seems to have a knack for putting folks over, and does it pretty damn often. Heath Slater. Clean. Sure, Jericho beats people, but he loses quite a lot to man. No shame, just isn't much of a shocker if Joer beats him

Samoe Joe hasn't put people over? You do realise he has lost matches to the likes of Crimson, Gunner, D'Angelo Dinero, Devon, Kazarian but to name a few. At least Jericho puts credible people over; ignoring Heath Slater in the argument, that was during a time WWE were attempting to put some of the NXT rookies over some pros, hence why they allowed Danielson to stick with Jericho for so long on the debut episode of NXT. Heath Slater has a victory over Jericho, Samoa Joe has taken a loss to Rob Terry. May be bigger but also much lesser of a professional wrestler than Heath Slater, therefore we can make the Jericho loss to Joe null-and-void.

Once again, look at where Samoa Joe is to where Chris Jericho is. Someone in a random tag team to somebody who competed for the WWE Championship and had the best wrestling match on the show only three weeks ago at Wrestlemania. Yeah, Chris Jericho still prevails as superior to Samoa Joe.

 

[shattered dreams]

At his best, Joe was the most dominant wrestler not only in TNA, but in American professional wrestling.

Can't blame you for trying though.

At Jericho's best, he was using sleazy tactics to beat WWF's best to win titles. I'll take the dominating pure athlete over the two-bit showman in a competition based on wrestling.

I'd say the biggest reason I can't get into these arguments for Joe is that to me that means Joe would beat Edge as well. Are you prepared to endorse that implication?

Also, am I the only one that noticed this match is in Calgary? Seems like that might give Jericho a little boost.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I'm glad to see you've calmed down.

You seem to be under the belief that because I said Christian beat Jericho at Mania, that I've said Jericho consequentially lost all of the matches he's had against Christian. I'm just saying what I think even you'll come to agree, that Jericho has no issue doing the jobski, and happens to lose against the same names that he beats. Again, nothing wrong with that, but against someone who has looked as indestructible as Samoa Joe has in the last, I'm going to side with the guy who went on a rampage, and went 18 months unbeaten. Sorry, just the way I feel.

You can go on with his accomplishments; I've got my copy of his first book right here, but if you'd rather tell ms what i've already read and watched on my own, fine by me. I'll try and sum it up; he made a great lightheavyweight, and a great wrestler. He had great matches, but he'd often lose to Wild Pegasus, Liger, et all. By his own admission, light heavyweights weren't the top draw, so I'm not buying he drew the money in Japan, maybe in Mexico. Maybe. That said, he had great matches in Japan. Great. Samoa Joe ha great matches, too; three 5 star matches to zippo

You can examine my above post. Jericho doesn't do the job to the likes of Devon Dudley. And bringing Five Star Matches into it does you no favors. Dave Meltzer, a guy with a great knowledge of pro-wrestling and all is as biased as they come. He'd rate the lower card of a Ring of Honor pay-per-view higher than he would a show stealing match at a Wrestlemania; I've heard interviews with him, he has even stated previously he enjoys the pure wrestling style more. However, he has still graded Chris Jericho with a Match of the Year, something which isn't easy to get as a WWE Superstar, especially when it wasn't on a Wrestlemania card. I was actually in attendance for the No Mercy PPV and the atmosphere was beyond anything a Samoa Joe match will ever accomplish.

Once again, I won't deny Joe is an excellent wrestler, he is. But he isn't better than Chris Jericho. Once again, I will argue that the first nine years of Jericho's career were better than the entire of Joe's career thus far. I don't need Jericho's book to prove that either, I can base it off what I've watched and what I know.