ECW Region, Calgary Subregion, Round 1: (6) Chris Jericho vs. (27) Samoa Joe

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the ECW Region, Calgary Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under ECW Rules. It will be held at the Saddledome, Calgary, Alberta, Canada.

#6. Chris Jericho

Vs.

#27. Samoa Joe

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Con T.]

I'm taking Samoa Joe in this one.

First of all, let's get this out of the way; no, Samoa Joe has never been in the WWE, and plenty of people are going to look at this as a hindrance to Joe. But anyone that watched Samoa Joe from 2004-2008, Samoa Joe was the best wrestler on the planet. This was during a period where he beat men like Styles, Daniels, Christian, Sting, and the like, all while holding the company as the top face of the company. When Kurt Angle was brought into TNA, the "money" match was never Angle and Styles, or Angle an Sting, or any other name on the roster. The guy that was seen as the only person that could compare to Kurt Angle was Samoa Joe. And together, they actually did the best business in TNA, did the highest buyrate for a TNA ppv. Fuck, they had a best of three series, where Joe got himself a win over the debuting Kurt Angle. TNA rarely has money matches because of their inept booking; Samoa Joe and Kurt Angle was fool proof, because people wanted to see these men fight. Joe and Angle brought TNA to where it is, frankly.

Now, did creative drop the ball with Joe? My God yes they did. How many times do we get these "reports" that Joe is coming to WWE? How many times have we heard JR and Steve Austin speculate about Joe in WWE? There's a reason people always talk about it, because people saw how great Joe was in TNA and ROH, and they want to see this man in WWE. Creative has fucked up Joe royally, but the truth is, he's the most talented man in TNA. Jericho is a great wrestler, but Joe is every bit the worker that Jericho is. I won't sit here and tell you that Joe has better promos, but I will say everything Joe brings to the table interests me more than Jericho. He has more intensity than Jericho, his style of wrestling intrigues me more, and when he is booked well, Joe is as compelling a character as anyone in wrestling.

Don't let people persuade you that current day Joe is the best of Joe. Watch his ROH stuff from 04, and his TNA run, especially his feuds with Angle, Styles, and Daniels, and you'll see the real Joe. And I just don't see that man losing to Jericho

 

[Theo Mays]

I'm with Pippa here. I like Jericho, he's splendid. But like he said Joe at one time was the best wrestler on the planet and put out great matches left and right like they were free appetizers at the grocery store. Jericho claims to be the best in the world, but I'm unsure that has ever been the case. He is good and I do enjoy Jericho, but I enjoy Joe that much more. Sure we hear Joe is lazy and yada yada yada, but I don't care. In a kayfabe sense Joe could hang with Jericho every inch of the way and even pull of the upset if need be. I think that happens here, I like Samoa Joe here and this should be closer than many people think.

 

[The Crock]

This is a match-up of two guys who I find to be extremely overrated. Don't get me wrong, I like them both -- Joe was my favorite thing in TNA at one point, and Jericho has always been damn good -- but people have a way of trumping them up to be so much more than they really are. They've both tasted plenty of success, though, and as it stands right now, I'll have to vote for Jericho. It's not that Samoa Joe wasn't good in his prime, it's just that on pure accolades and a side-by-side comparison of what they bring to the table, I'm leaning toward Jericho.

Joe is a two-time world heavyweight champion (counting TNA and ROH), whereas Jericho is a six-time world champ. On top of that, Jericho has held pretty much every title there is to hold in the WWE, and is a triple crown/grand slam champion. Jericho's accomplishments are undeniable, as is the list of people he has beaten. Not to take away from Joe (he's beaten some great competition too), but he hasn't beaten Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Edge, and plenty of others. Jericho, although a midcarder for most of his career, has been a top guy among guys that far outclass most who Joe has faced. Joe may be a big fish in a small pond, but Jericho has been a big fish in the biggest pond. I've gotta go with Jericho.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

How many times must we go back to Jericho beating Austin and The Rock in the same night? Huh? How damn many?

Not enough, apparently. He did it. Joe hasn't.

I'm not a big Joe fan, so it doesn't bother me. I think he's largely overrated because he's a fat guy who keeps up a fast pace, as if that means anything. Pacing and frequency of moves inside of the ring is about as overrated as Joe. I don't care how fast they move. Hmm... I feel better now.

Anyhow, when Joe goes on to to win a tournament like Jericho did, let me know. Until then, I'm taking Jericho. He's better, and he'd find a way to win.

 

[GI Cake]

Jericho takes the cake on this one. And it is not even close, Jericho has dominated every and any promotion he was a part of. It didn't matter if it was in Canada, Smokey Mountain, Mexico, Japan, WCW, or the WWE. Jericho has constantly been a guy at the peak of every division. He is a unique combination of Technical, High-Flyer, and Submission based wrestling. Compared to Samoa Joe who is a Brawler who happens to do submissions. Jericho is a six time world champion, the first ever Undisputed Champion, and has beaten guys the Samoa Joe can only dream of sharing the ring with.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I don't know why it necessarily matters that Samoa Joe hasn't beaten the guys Jericho beat. Jericho lost to the same guys as well so it's not like he's going to have a huge advantage.

Jericho is one of the worst champions of all time. I don't even remember half of his title reigns, his only memorable world title reign resulting in him playing fourth fiddle in his own damn feud. Even a dog was more important than him. It's just goes to show that when you're with a McMahon, a McMahon and anything relating to it will be more important than you.

I don't see one Codebreaker putting Joe down. I don't see him making Joe submit to the Walls. Joe can go in the ring just as good if not better than Jericho and I see him Muscle Busting his way to victory in about 20 minutes.

Joe's Gonna Kill Him!!!

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Jericho takes the cake on this one. And it is not even close, Jericho has dominated every and any promotion he was a part of. It didn't matter if it was in Canada, Smokey Mountain, Mexico, Japan, WCW, or the WWE. Jericho has constantly been a guy at the peak of every division.

I sure hope you don't use this logic when it comes to Sting since he never wrestled in the WWE. Don't do it.

He is a unique combination of Technical, High-Flyer, and Submission based wrestling.

Have they ever called Jericho a submission machine? Just asking. The guy he is facing goes by that moniker.

Compared to Samoa Joe who is a Brawler who happens to do submissions. Jericho is a six time world champion, the first ever Undisputed Champion, and has beaten guys the Samoa Joe can only dream of sharing the ring with.

And he's also lost to guys Samoa Joe will never dream of losing to.

 

[Con T.]

Fuck, got so wrapped up in Kane, forgot about this.

Crock, he has won six world titles, bit riddle me this; was he ever the guy for his company in holding a world title? For that matter, has he ever been the guy for any promotion he's in. Here's a little thing no one mentions; Chris Jericho and Triple H made it perfectly acceptable that the WWE title did not have to headline the biggest event in the WWE. Consider that for a second; their match made the belt seem so useless, that it was now considered kosher that the WWE title, the biggest title in the company, didn't have to main event the biggest event.

Joe may be a big fish in a small pond, but his reign in TNA an ROH made it known that he was the guy in TNA. Even when he didn't have the belt, Kurt and Joe were both the foundations of TNA. Chris Jericho will never be considered a main guy for WWE; sure, he's great, but frankly, he's the best with little around.

Nick, what tourney has Chris won? The whole Rock and Austin thing? Again, as I've said before in Kane's thread, if you're that willing to throw out kayfabe, you'd better be prepared to accept these facts;

A. Winning matches really loses it's luster in this era, especially when you consider that wins and losses are thrown around so often, and no one's allowed to win decisively. For every Rock win, there's a Heath Slater loss I can point out. For every Austin win, there's an X Pac loss. If you're going to use wins and losses, get ready to accept that it involves circle reasoning, that gets no one nowhere.

B. Kayfabe is also based on circumstance. Again, there's times when the time
Is right to give back the win, and times where the storyline dictates it. Again, doesn't do much for me to say he's a greater wrestler

 

[Bernkastel]

Say whatever you want about Jericho beating Stone Cold and the Rock on the same night, but the fact is it's impossible to ignore such a feat. It's arguable that moment is the crowning achievement in the man's career, even if you ignore the man's half dozen world championship reigns.

Joe also has some impressive feuds and wins, over Sting, Kurt Angle, Jushin Liger [though it was in the US], and AJ Styles. However Jericho's achievements seem much more impressive, beating bigger stars than both Angle and Styles.

I'm going to give the nod to Jericho here. Generally he's been booked in the upper mid for the majority of his career, and even in 2012 he's competeing in title matches at Wrestlemania. I hate to be "that guy" but Joe's recent booking has been less in spectacular. He's been reduced to the mid card.

 

[Big Sexy]

When it comes to in ring work they are both great and neither man has a clear advantage. When it comes to mic work that EASILY goes to Jericho. When it comes to accomplishments that EASILY goes to Jericho. Jericho has beaten bigger names, he has more longevity, he has more main event experience and has done it at a bigger and better company then Joe. Jericho definitely gets overrated on here and there are plenty better then him in this tournament who should go over him, but Samoa Joe isn't one of them.

 

[GI Cake]

I sure hope you don't use this logic when it comes to Sting since he never wrestled in the WWE. Don't do it.

Did I mention Sting anywhere in this post?

Have they ever called Jericho a submission machine? Just asking. The guy he is facing goes by that moniker.

Joe goes by the Submission Machine because it sounds a lot better than "The Fat guy who does a Coquina Clutch"

And he's also lost to guys Samoa Joe will never dream of losing to.

At least Jericho has faced the highest level of talent you can ask for. Who was the biggest guy Joe beat in his career? Kurt Angle? Jericho beat him in the middle of the ring. What about Booker T? Jericho beat him as well. Anyone Joe even shared a locker room with, Jericho flat out beat them. Joe is the overweight fish in a small pond. He's burst of star power only lasted for so long before becoming a chump who came in last place for the Bound for Glory Tournament. Jericho has been successful anywhere he went.

Jericho wins this one by a long shot.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Did I mention Sting anywhere in this post?

No, but I just like mentioning him. I can easily say the same about Joe dominating ROH and TNA but it's not WCW or WWE so it doesn't probably matter much to you.

Joe goes by the Submission Machine because it sounds a lot better than "The Fat guy who does a Coquina Clutch"

Or maybe that he uses multiple submission maneuvers throughout his matches? I don't remember Jericho doing that a lot.

At least Jericho has faced the highest level of talent you can ask for. Who was the biggest guy Joe beat in his career? Kurt Angle? Jericho beat him in the middle of the ring. What about Booker T? Jericho beat him as well. Anyone Joe even shared a locker room with, Jericho flat out beat them. Joe is the overweight fish in a small pond. He's burst of star power only lasted for so long before becoming a chump who came in last place for the Bound for Glory Tournament. Jericho has been successful anywhere he went.

Jericho wins this one by a long shot.

Scott Steiner.

Your argument is invalid.

 

[The Crock]

Crock, he has won six world titles, bit riddle me this; was he ever the guy for his company in holding a world title? For that matter, has he ever been the guy for any promotion he's in. Here's a little thing no one mentions; Chris Jericho and Triple H made it perfectly acceptable that the WWE title did not have to headline the biggest event in the WWE. Consider that for a second; their match made the belt seem so useless, that it was now considered kosher that the WWE title, the biggest title in the company, didn't have to main event the biggest event.

I'm fairly certain anything on the same card as Rock/Hogan would be overshadowed. The most prestigious of titles would come off as such, but I don't blame that on Jericho and Triple H. They got dealt a raw hand, but they did the best with what they could do. Even so, I wouldn't put the blame on Jericho/Triple H for the world title being devalued. If anything, I would attribute the game of hot potato that the belt was put through in the Attitude Era for that.

Now, I understand that Jericho was never "the man," but Joe was "the man" in TNA -- unless I missed something, that isn't exactly comparable. I respect what Joe did in TNA, but his reign on top wasn't exactly something to write home about. Sting, AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, even Jeff Jarrett; these are all guys who would rank over Joe in the hierarchy of TNA, and I can't ignore that either. Joe hasn't exactly been the go-to guy, as a matter of fact, he's pretty much fallen off into a midcard spot, at best. Joe's best years (in ROH/TNA) were from '04 to '08 and since then, he's been mostly irrelevant (the tag title reign has been alright). Jericho, on the other hand, is almost always doing something and has been for quite some time now.

Or maybe that he uses multiple submission maneuvers throughout his matches? I don't remember Jericho doing that a lot.

Such bullshit. Jericho does PLENTY of submissions. Does "ASK HIM!" ring a bell? He does plenty of basic chinlocks, armbars, and whatnot -- not to mention the Walls of Jericho.

 

[#hamler]

Fuck, got so wrapped up in Kane, forgot about this.

Crock, he has won six world titles, bit riddle me this; was he ever the guy for his company in holding a world title? For that matter, has he ever been the guy for any promotion he's in. Here's a little thing no one mentions; Chris Jericho and Triple H made it perfectly acceptable that the WWE title did not have to headline the biggest event in the WWE. Consider that for a second; their match made the belt seem so useless, that it was now considered kosher that the WWE title, the biggest title in the company, didn't have to main event the biggest event.

Joe may be a big fish in a small pond, but his reign in TNA an ROH made it known that he was the guy in TNA. Even when he didn't have the belt, Kurt and Joe were both the foundations of TNA. Chris Jericho will never be considered a main guy for WWE; sure, he's great, but frankly, he's the best with little around.

Back when Joe feuded with Angle, who in TNA was considered a draw within the company? Very few. There's a reason Joe was the main guy then. There's alot of truth to being a big fish in a small pond; a pond with hardly enough fish to match the potential of the other, bigger pond. Jericho was Champion when guys like Triple H, Kurt Angle, Kane, The Rock, Undertaker and many more were around and still within the company. Don't you think if Jericho would've went to TNA he would surpassed everything Joe has achieved within the company?

Jeircho has never been in a small pond to be the top guy like Joe. As far as I am concerned, Joe has always been in a small pond - hence the reason he was the top guy for a period of time.

 

[JGlass]

At his best, Jericho was one of the very best wrestlers that WWF/E had to offer. After average, albeit enjoyable careers in WCW, Smokey Mountain, and a few international circuits, Jericho finally became the star he was destined to be in WWF. Why would we want to vote for Joe, a guy that's been a big fish in the small pond that is TNA?

Because Joe is better, that's why. Joe might not have the best selling wrestling books, he might not have legions of fanboys that will pay money to see him pretend to be a rock star, and he might look like he has eaten Jericho (or two Jerichos), but that just means that there's more of him to love.

At their respective peaks, Joe was better than Jericho. Joe put on better matches (three 5 star matches to Jericho's 0), he cut better promos (Jericho could only dream of doing what Joe did at Turning Point 07), and he was just more dominant than Jericho (he had that winning streak, right?).

So what we have here is a tremendously underrated Joe against a tremendously overrated Jericho. I'm going to vote for the better wrestler, and that's Samoa Joe.

Jericho takes the cake on this one. And it is not even close, Jericho has dominated every and any promotion he was a part of. It didn't matter if it was in Canada, Smokey Mountain, Mexico, Japan, WCW, or the WWE.

He never won a damn thing in Smokey Mountain, and only a handful of forgettable accomplishments in Japan. I would hardly say he dominated in any promotion he was in with the exception of WWE, and maybe WCW.

Jericho has constantly been a guy at the peak of every division.

Looks like someone wants to brush the beginning of his WWF career under the rug, where he was feuding with a chick over the IC title. Or that he was shipped to Japan during the beginning of his career in WCW where he wasn't anything special.

He is a unique combination of Technical, High-Flyer, and Submission based wrestling.

Wait, you're talking about Samoa Joe, right?

Compared to Samoa Joe who is a Brawler who happens to do submissions.

Um, have you ever watched a Samoa Joe match? Brawler hardly describes him. At all.

Jericho is a six time world champion, the first ever Undisputed Champion, and has beaten guys the Samoa Joe can only dream of sharing the ring with.

You can tell that you're new, as your making the "Jericho beat Austin, and Joe never wrestled Austin, so that means Jericho is better" argument. At the peak of his career, Joe would have had his win over Austin. I'm not saying Joe is better than Austin (that would be almost as crazy as saying Jericho is better than Austin), but Joe would have gotten one on him, much like Jericho did. What I can tell you is that Joe beat Kurt Angle when he was the most dominant man in TNA, as well as other TNA legends like AJ Styles and Jeff Jarrett. There was a time when Joe was the man in TNA, when some of the best wrestlers in the business couldn't touch him. Jericho was never the dominant force in any of his companies that Joe was in TNA. Ever.

 

[GI Cake]

No, but I just like mentioning him. I can easily say the same about Joe dominating ROH and TNA but it's not WCW or WWE so it doesn't probably matter much to you.

You know nothing about me, nor do I know anything about you. I've been a huge fan of Chris Jericho since I was a young little Pancake. I took the time to look back and see the things Jericho has done across the globe as a professional wrestling. I watch TNA, and I enjoy the product. But if Jericho were to join TNA by next week he would already be one of the top guys in that business.

You're not holding any sound argument that Samoa Joe would hold a candle to Chris Jericho. Jericho's faster, and a much better technical wrestler than Joe could ever hope to be. I could easily see Jericho countering the Musclebuster right into a Codebreaker, than boom Jericho takes the win.

Not only that, Jericho is a mastermind at mind games. He has been doing it since WCW, and he is still doing it today. This is a guy who outplayed the game in mind games and stole his girl. Jericho is a guy who made CM Punk the Straight Edge Champion drink. Jericho is a guy who is the man of a 1,004
holds. You can say Samoa Joe is the submission machine. But Jericho is the best at what he does. The mental mastermind, the Ayatollah of Rock 'n' Rolla.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Not only that, Jericho is a mastermind at mind games. He has been doing it since WCW, and he is still doing it today.

He sure loses a lot for a guy who is a mastermind at mind games.

This is a guy who outplayed the game in mind games and stole his girl.

You mean the same guy who beat him at Wrestlemania 18? That same guy who divorced this girl of whom you speak?

Jericho is a guy who made CM Punk the Straight Edge Champion drink.

That guy who made Jericho tap at Wrestlemania? That guy who had to be basically knocked out for Jericho to make him drink. What an accomplishment that is.

Jericho is a guy who is the man of a 1,004 holds. You can say Samoa Joe is the submission machine. But Jericho is the best at what he does. The mental mastermind, the Ayatollah of Rock 'n' Rolla.

Having his shoulders pinned to the mat? Why, yes he is.

 

[The Crock]

I quite enjoyed your post, JGlass, even if we're on two separate sides of the argument. That being said, there are two things I want to address:

(three 5 star matches to Jericho's 0)

I HATE when people bring up 5 star matches. Meltzer's opinion, while respected, should not have any bearing on who the better in-ring practitioner is. Meltzer is clearly biased in his ratings, but more than that, some of his ratings are batshit crazy. I mean, let's just all quit right now, because Misawa's got 24 five star matches tucked under his belt -- nobody can touch him. Not only that, but the likes of Kurt Angle, The Rock, Eddie Guerrero, and Randy Savage would be screwed -- as not a single man on that list has a five star match.

Meltzer's a respected journalist in a field that has very few other "experts," though I won't bash his MMA work. Meltzer's word is taken as gospel around the IWC, but it really shouldn't be.

So what we have here is a tremendously underrated Joe against a tremendously overrated Jericho.

I don't necessarily think this is true either. Calling Joe underrated seems somewhat funny, when you have people calling him the "best wrestler in the world." I agree that Jericho is underrated, but I can't help but feel that Joe is too.

 

[GI Cake]

At their respective peaks, Joe was better than Jericho. Joe put on better matches (three 5 star matches to Jericho's 0), he cut better promos (Jericho could only dream of doing what Joe did at Turning Point 07), and he was just more dominant than Jericho (he had that winning streak, right?).

You think Joe is a better at cutting promos than Jericho? Really? Did you not see Jericho's debut in the WWF/E. He best the Rock in a Promo. He bested Triple H in a promo. And he is constantly neck to neck with CM Punk in a down right killer promos. I'll take Jericho over Joe any day of the week on the mic.

Looks like someone wants to brush the beginning of his WWF career under the rug, where he was feuding with a chick over the IC title. Or that he was shipped to Japan during the beginning of his career in WCW where he wasn't anything special.

So it is cool to devalue Jericho's overall worth because of his early career in WWF/E? What has Joe done lately in TNA? Other than his Tag Team Championship he was either off T.V or jobbing to Crimson, jobbing, jobbing, jobbing, jobbing, did I mention jobbing? Even as a tag team champion, Joe is boring as dirt in the ring. He is constantly being outshined in the ring by Magnus.

Um, have you ever watched a Samoa Joe match? Brawler hardly describes him. At all.

Oh did I write Brawler, I meant unentertaining. My bad.

There was a time when Joe was the man in TNA, when some of the best wrestlers in the business couldn't touch him. Jericho was never the dominant force in any of his companies that Joe was in TNA. Ever.

There was a time where Joe was a dominant, and the top guy of TNA. But their also a time where Jericho was undisputed world champion. Their wasn't a guy for a long time to take either the World Heavyweight Championship or the WWF title off of him.

 

[JGlass]

You think Joe is a better at cutting promos than Jericho? Really? Did you not see Jericho's debut in the WWF/E. He best the Rock in a Promo. He bested Triple H in a promo. And he is constantly neck to neck with CM Punk in a down right killer promos. I'll take Jericho over Joe any day of the week on the mic.

Oh, Jericho's debut promo was awesome, but he didn't exactly best The Rock at a promo. He interrupted him, and then when The Rock got his chance to talk again he made Jericho look like a third grader that talked without raising his hand.

Jericho's best promo vs. Joe's best promo... Joe's is better.

So it is cool to devalue Jericho's overall worth because of his early career in WWF/E?

Lulz. I never devalued his whole career, I just felt it was my duty to point out that you were GREATLY exaggerating when you said he was constantly at the top. He had long bouts of being on the midcard throughout his career.

What has Joe done lately in TNA? Other than his Tag Team Championship he was either off T.V or jobbing to Crimson, jobbing, jobbing, jobbing, jobbing, did I mention jobbing? Even as a tag team champion, Joe is boring as dirt in the ring. He is constantly being outshined in the ring by Magnus.

The majority of TNA fans would disagree with you.

Oh did I write Brawler, I meant unentertaining. My bad.

Three 5 star matches to Jericho's zero. Boom, roasted.

There was a time where Joe was a dominant, and the top guy of TNA. But their also a time where Jericho was undisputed world champion.

Do you remember how Jericho won those titles? There was nothing about that reign that was undisputed except for its name.

Their wasn't a guy for a long time to take either the World Heavyweight Championship or the WWF title off of him.

98 days is a long time now?

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Nick, what tourney has Chris won? The whole Rock and Austin thing?

Yes, as if that's some small achievement...

Again, as I've said before in Kane's thread, if you're that willing to throw out kayfabe, you'd better be prepared to accept these facts;

I threw kayfabe out for roughly thirty seconds, just to make my point about how overrated Joe really is. My choice to stick with Jericho resides within the realm of kayfabe. If we drop that, and go with actual achievements, Jericho wins in an even bigger landslide.

A. Winning matches really loses it's luster in this era, especially when you consider that wins and losses are thrown around so often, and no one's allowed to win decisively. For every Rock win, there's a Heath Slater loss I can point out. For every Austin win, there's an X Pac loss. If you're going to use wins and losses, get ready to accept that it involves circle reasoning, that gets no one nowhere.

Here's the point - Jericho can beat the two top wrestlers on the planet in a single night. When has Joe done that? When has he done anything close to that? He hasn't. I'm not saying Jericho could do that more than once, but doing so the one time makes me believe he can find a way to beat Joe's fat ass in the first round of a tournament of this magnitude (if it were real, obviously).

B. Kayfabe is also based on circumstance. Again, there's times when the time
Is right to give back the win, and times where the storyline dictates it. Again, doesn't do much for me to say he's a greater wrestler

I'm not telling you not to vote for Joe

I think it's the wrong pick, but it's yours to make, and you seem pretty settled in. I get that. Then again, if Samoa fucking Joe beats Chris Jericho in the first round of this tournament, I'll... well, I won't do anything, because it's an internet fantasy wrestling tournament.

 

[nightmare]

Jericho has made a career out of being loudspoken. Thats it. Well also losing to the biggest names in the company. How many 'loser leaves' matches has he had?

He is a great wrestler, but by far, not the best in the world. He has never been the top dog in the company. Not even after beating Rock\SCSA was he the top dog. He said it himself in his 2nd book. Jericho was a loudmouth who Vince didnt care for or about for quite some time. He was even upset after he 'left it all' in the ring, that he never received the reaction from McMahon that others did. His big claim to fame was a shot in the dark decision by Vince to have him win the Undisputed title. The matches were marred with multiple run-ins and werent spectacular by any means. Although Jericho wants you to beleive it was the best moment in WWE history.


Joe has been the top guy in 2 companies. A huge following, undefeated streak and 5 star matches. Jericho has the first, but not the last 2. Joe can hang with the best of them. Call him names all you want, but Joe proves why he is a force. Jericho can pull out every sneaky trick he knows, but Joe is gonna kill him.

After a great back and forth, Joe gets mad Jericho kicked out of the muscle buster, puts him out with the choke.

Jericho taps and loses this round.

 

[Con T.]

I'm fairly certain anything on the same card as Rock/Hogan would be overshadowed. The most prestigious of titles would come off as such, but I don't blame that on Jericho and Triple H. They got dealt a raw hand, but they did the best with what they could do. Even so, I wouldn't put the blame on Jericho/Triple H for the world title being devalued. If anything, I would attribute the game of hot potato that the belt was put through in the Attitude Era for that.

Now, I understand that Jericho was never "the man," but Joe was "the man" in TNA -- unless I missed something, that isn't exactly comparable. I respect what Joe did in TNA, but his reign on top wasn't exactly something to write home about. Sting, AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, even Jeff Jarrett; these are all guys who would rank over Joe in the hierarchy of TNA, and I can't ignore that either. Joe hasn't exactly been the go-to guy, as a matter of fact, he's pretty much fallen off into a midcard spot, at best. Joe's best years (in ROH/TNA) were from '04 to '08 and since then, he's been mostly irrelevant (the tag title reign has been alright). Jericho, on e other hand, is almost always doing somethingo.

Oh yeah, always doing something, huh? You mean like that time Creative had nothing for him, so they stuck him with Edge, and then Big Show, in a tag team in the mid card? Sounds just like what you're saying about Joe now, don't it? If you wanna tell me Samoa Joe is not being used well now, fine, but you gotta admit Jericho has plenty of times where he gets to the main event, and then gets brought right back to the mid card. Surely you remember in 2001, where he was feuding with Steve Austin, the greatest name in wrestling. What happened? King of the Ring 2001 happened; shit buyrate, an Jericho goes back down to the mid card.

Jericho ain't the only one in this match to get pushed down to the mid card, and at the end of the day, Joe is just better at getting me interested in his matches, and how he does.


Pancake, just so you know a few things; there's really not a lot to say to someone who's clearly clueless to Samoa Joe, but it's quite telling when you're clueless about our own guy. That debut promo you talk about? You mustn't have read Jericho's book, because even he buries that promo. Why? Because when Rock retaliaited, Jericho just took it, with that pouty look on his face. Jericho buried himself in that promo; he instilled the theory that you should not take this man seriously. And that has always been Jericho's issue; you can't take him seriously as a threat. At all. There is nothing threatening about him. Joe looks like a man who will kill you; Jericho doesn't have that same credibility. Furthermore, Jericho can have funny lines; that doesn't mean his promos are all that better, or that good at all. His promos are all based around either quips and jokes, or big words. It's an interesting character, but doesn't make you believe this man can kick your ass. Joe, on the other hand, makes you feel intimidated, makes you believe this guy could destroy me, given the chance

Next time you want to debate, rather than just using insults and the like, have some validity to what you say, Panny.

 

[The Brain]

For as much as I want to vote for a WWE guy over a TNA guy I’m not sure I can do it here. I realize that Chris Jericho is a God among the IWC and therefore holds an advantage in this match and this tournament. He has a lot of accomplishments he can brag about and is great in the ring and on the mic. People here have such a great appreciation for Jericho that they often overlook one very important thing. Jericho loses a lot. He may go out there and cut a great promo to really draw you into a storyline. He may go out there and give a great performance in the ring that leaves you wanting more. That’s all great, but more times than not he comes out on the losing end. He is often used to make his opponents look good and rarely gets his hand raised himself. The fact that Samoa Joe has never wrestled for WWE is sure to hurt him here but I want you to think about something. Let’s say Samoa Joe debuted in the WWE next month. What do you think would happen? I’d say within a couple months Chris Jericho would be losing to him on ppv making him look good and establishing him as a new star. That’s what I see happening in this tournament. I’ll hold off on my vote for a couple days because I don’t think this is a clear cut match by any means. For now though I’m leaning toward Joe.