Dolph Ziggler is officially a former World Champion and Edge is an 11 time Champ!

[pepentorresHHH]

According to WWE's WHC history Dolph Ziggler was officially crowned as a world heavyweight champion champ tonight!(http://www.wwe.com/inside/titlehistory/worldheavyweight/)... and as we saw tonight Edge is now an 11 time world champion....
whats your opinion on the Ultimate Transitional Champion's latest title change and how could this take some prestige from the WHC because Edge could very well lose the title against Del Rio or even on sunday!.....
and what about Dolph....he is now a former world champion even thought everyone on this forum said it was too soon for him to win the title....
comments or thoughts?

 

[CelticCorey]

To quote from the SD Thread:


"That's no way to get your first world title (Wiki counts it as such, so do other sources.) Unlike Swagger, Sheamus and Del Rio, Ziggler did NOT come out of nowhere. Ziggler was NOT forced on us. What he was, was built up the old fashioned way. Here is a guy who was repackaged after a silly cheerleader stint. A guy who would fight and fight for the IC title with Mysterio and Morrison and lost. He had more tuning up to do.

Then, he finally got Vickie and heat behind him. He finally won the IC title and was a damn good IC champion. Put on terrific matches and stepped up and defended his title on TV and PPV successfully. He brought credibility back to the belt because not only that but Kofi had to work hard to get it back.

Ziggler properly worked his way up from the bottom; but Sheamus and Swagger actually WON their titles. Here Ziggler gets it handed to him and then loses it right away. Not only does this devalue the belt but all of that time invested in building up Ziggler you made him look like a joke. I wanna see anyone defend this and say this was a good idea. What writer decided this to be a good idea? I have no problem if Ziggler scratches and claws his way to the WHC just like with the IC title and just like how it took awhile for HBK and Austin and Benoit to win it.

Was this shitty idea from P.S. Hayes? Who? How is this a good move? Just keep the belt on Edge. No stupid shit. And now Dolph Ziggler goes down as a world champion but he didn't win it and lost it right away. How is this good? It ruined it for me. Dolph Ziggler is World Title worthy and amongst the most ready of the upper mid-carders. But nooo, they pull this shit. WWE and their fucking games I swear."



I wanted him to WIN THE DAMN THING!!! It was too soon? Compare him to the recent newer champions and he is the most seasoned out of all of them arguably. I wanted to MARK OUT for his title win. But he got it handed to him. I wanted to see him as WHC but not like this. Now it won't be special when he finally wins it in his own right.

 

[pepentorresHHH]

So after Dolph was awarded the WHC, he was put in a title match by the returning GM Teddy Long and lost the title to Edge and was subsequently fired.......
is this firing real or like Kelly Kelly's "firing" 2 weeks ago?
normally i would link it to an ongoing storyline but if you follow him on twitter there are a few tweets that indicate that he was fired for real.....

so whats your take on this situation..... or if this is a storyline how would you like this storyline to go?

 

[xcalypsox]

To quote from the SD Thread:


"That's no way to get your first world title (Wiki counts it as such, so do other sources.) Unlike Swagger, Sheamus and Del Rio, Ziggler did NOT come out of nowhere. Ziggler was NOT forced on us. What he was, was built up the old fashioned way. Here is a guy who was repackaged after a silly cheerleader stint. A guy who would fight and fight for the IC title with Mysterio and Morrison and lost. He had more tuning up to do.

Then, he finally got Vickie and heat behind him. He finally won the IC title and was a damn good IC champion. Put on terrific matches and stepped up and defended his title on TV and PPV successfully. He brought credibility back to the belt because not only that but Kofi had to work hard to get it back.

Ziggler properly worked his way up from the bottom; but Sheamus and Swagger actually WON their titles. Here Ziggler gets it handed to him and then loses it right away. Not only does this devalue the belt but all of that time invested in building up Ziggler you made him look like a joke. I wanna see anyone defend this and say this was a good idea. What writer decided this to be a good idea? I have no problem if Ziggler scratches and claws his way to the WHC just like with the IC title and just like how it took awhile for HBK and Austin and Benoit to win it.

Was this shitty idea from P.S. Hayes? Who? How is this a good move? Just keep the belt on Edge. No stupid shit. And now Dolph Ziggler goes down as a world champion but he didn't win it and lost it right away. How is this good? It ruined it for me. Dolph Ziggler is World Title worthy and amongst the most ready of the upper mid-carders. But nooo, they pull this shit. WWE and their fucking games I swear."



I wanted him to WIN THE DAMN THING!!! It was too soon? Compare him to the recent newer champions and he is the most seasoned out of all of them arguably. I wanted to MARK OUT for his title win. But he got it handed to him. I wanted to see him as WHC but not like this. Now it won't be special when he finally wins it in his own right.

You 100% said exactly what I was feeling as I watched Smackdown tonight.

Ziggler has worked hard the whole year and slowly climbed his way up the ladder. Distancing himself from his old spirit squad gimick. Has had entertaining feuds all year and had a good IC title run this past year. I think Zigglers and Kofis feud over the IC title brought much needed prestige back to that title.

Now WWE just hands him the World title only to lose it in a 7 minute match the same night. Horrible idea in my opinion now he will always have that stain on his career that not only did he have to have Vickie hand him his first title but he also lost it in his first defense on the first night he got the title in a seven minute match.

I admit I'm biased towards this though because I too was waiting to mark out when he finally won his first Championship, even during the match with Edge I was desperately hoping they would pull a huge swerve and let Ziggler some how retain the title.

 

[Trance Metaphor]

Yeah. This is pretty asinine.

Dolph Ziggler is such a solid competitor. He's got the look and the in-ring skills to make him fight literally anyone on the roster and end up looking eligible for any title. He was the first important Intercontinental Champion in a long time. He actually defended and successfully retained his title on numerous occasions, which speaks volumes considering how downgraded the title seemed to be prior to him holding it.

Just when you think his matches against Daniel Bryan and even John Cena are any indication of his elevation, this is the kind of stuff we're treated with. Why even pull this kind of stunt in the first place? It's pointless. It feels like a cheap excuse to give Edge his 11th title reign. Ziggler worked his ass off only to lose match after match, even while selling them like crazy. What's the point of his name being inducted into the title history when it's nothing we'll ever remember? As far as the WHC prestige is concerned though...there is one thing. Triple H was awarded the title too. But, the difference between that and this is over time, the WHC developed into something valuable. So much for that now.

 

[Trill Co$by]

Honestly, I think that the way tonight's Smackdown played out was perfect and whoever doesn't probably needs to take a step back and take a deep breath. If there's one thing consistent about Smackdown it's that their writing makes perfect sense and tonight was no different. Here we have Dolph Ziggler who has been trying, trying, and trying to get the World title through every opportunity he could and used every loop hole he had at his disposal.

Eventually he's put into a match where if the champion uses his finisher, he'll become champion. That happens, and then next week BOOM Ziggler's world champion... Not only that, but Edge ends up being "fired" because he allegedly assaulted Teddy long. So the crowning of the champion comes to and we find out that the new champion is the cause of the recent loss of the GM. The GM decides that if Ziggler's to keep the belt then he must defend the belt.

Now you tell me, what kind of sense would it make to have Dolph Ziggler DEFEAT Edge fairly after he tried to use every loophole at his finger tips and lost? You tell me what kind of sense it would make to have a serious title change "2 nights" before the ppv only to have the guy lose it? I don't know about you, but that smells like Eric Bischoff booking to me and if you think Bischoff can book, ask WCW about that... yes I blame it on Bischoff because HE ruined the roster long before Russo came along.

Anyway, as I said tonight was a great way to get Ziggler some heat on Smackdown, and I don't know maybe they'll find a way to work him into Wrestlemania probably? Maybe? You think? Or hell, maybe, just maybe he'll be brought up to Raw where he can dance with the big guys? Seriously, people are throwing a hissy fit cause he didn't get a lengthy title reign months before Mania... seriously, do you really think Vince would let TWO rookies walk into Mania as his top two champions? If you DID then I've got some land to sale you at a very reasonable price.

 

[xcalypsox]

"I will see all of u again, SOMEWHERE! And now its time to make an impact and spike someone else's ratings! U know me, I'd rather be in Dixie"

That was a tweet Ziggler posted a few minutes i actually started laughing when i read that tweet. I think that Dolph is just playing up his firing and will either move to Raw of Vickie will somehow get his job back. Maybe he will somehow screw Edge out of the title at Mania to give Del Rio the win.

But i in no way believe Ziggler is fired from the WWE if he was getting fired they wouldn't have given him the title no matter how short of a reign it was then he goes to TNA and can say he was a champion in WWE. Vince wouldn't do that it's just an angle like Cena's firing was.

 

[The_Reptile_]

If it's real, then it's just another example of WWE stupidity.

If it's Kayfabe, then their going to move him to RAW so Daniel Bryan can have a legitimate opponent for his title.

The entire WHC switcharoonie was completely unnecessary regardless.

I have every reason to believe it's Kayfaybe, however, since every time a guy was fired for real, he was always sent out after getting a pretty brutal squash, it was never played up like this.

 

[xcalypsox]

Honestly, I think that the way tonight's Smackdown played out was perfect and whoever doesn't probably needs to take a step back and take a deep breath. If there's one thing consistent about Smackdown it's that their writing makes perfect sense and tonight was no different. Here we have Dolph Ziggler who has been trying, trying, and trying to get the World title through every opportunity he could and used every loop hole he had at his disposal.

Eventually he's put into a match where if the champion uses his finisher, he'll become champion. That happens, and then next week BOOM Ziggler's world champion... Not only that, but Edge ends up being "fired" because he allegedly assaulted Teddy long. So the crowning of the champion comes to and we find out that the new champion is the cause of the recent loss of the GM. The GM decides that if Ziggler's to keep the belt then he must defend the belt.

Now you tell me, what kind of sense would it make to have Dolph Ziggler DEFEAT Edge fairly after he tried to use every loophole at his finger tips and lost? You tell me what kind of sense it would make to have a serious title change "2 nights" before the ppv only to have the guy lose it? I don't know about you, but that smells like Eric Bischoff booking to me and if you think Bischoff can book, ask WCW about that... yes I blame it on Bischoff because HE ruined the roster long before Russo came along.

Anyway, as I said tonight was a great way to get Ziggler some heat on Smackdown, and I don't know maybe they'll find a way to work him into Wrestlemania probably? Maybe? You think? Or hell, maybe, just maybe he'll be brought up to Raw where he can dance with the big guys? Seriously, people are throwing a hissy fit cause he didn't get a lengthy title reign months before Mania... seriously, do you really think Vince would let TWO rookies walk into Mania as his top two champions? If you DID then I've got some land to sale you at a very reasonable price.

I agree that they must have a plan for him and this is just the storyline I just wish that instead of them giving him the belt and putting him down as a former champion that Teddy came out and stopped Vickie saying that the title was Vacant and Edge would fight Ziggler for the belt tonight and whoever won would be champion and if Ziggler lost he would be fired.

That way Edge would still get his 11th title reign and Ziggler would still be fired he angle could still play out the same way. The only difference would be Zigglers first title reign wouldn't be stained.

 

[CelticCorey]

The best way would've been to just keep the belt on Edge. Instead of all of these title matches on free tv after the Royal Rumble, why not have Vickie and Ziggler try to weaken Edge for EC just like they did for the Royal Rumble?

I mean why give out these matches on PPV when we get them on free tv? That doesn't work. Now the WHC loses some prestige. It made no sense. Quite the opposite of perfect sense IMO. The title loses prestige because a guy who was built up properly just gets the belt handed to him literally and then he loses it out of nowhere. I wanted his first reign to be SPECIAL. To be EPIC. I wanted to MARK OUT for this like I marked For Miz's title win, Anderson's title win and when Del Rio won the Rumble. Those were MARK THE FUCK OUT moments for me and I could've seen that happening for Ziggler.

There is nothing special about this now. Nothing special about his title reign and won't have the same feeling once he finally wins it for real. The best way to do this was Edge retains at the Rumble, tension builds by trying to weaken Edge for the Chamber and then they square off again. Better just to have given Ziggler a reign AFTER Mania. Maybe late 2011 or early 2012. But no. There was this. This was a shitty idea and whoever booked this deserves to be canned.

 

[CelticCorey]

WWE will not be firing one of its future main eventers and one of its rising stars. I personally think we will still see Dolph in the Chamber. Vickie will bitch and bitch and bitch to the board of directors (kayfabe) and they will get him back and Edge and Ziggler will be the final two men for the Camber on Sunday.

What exactly could Ziggler have done to warrant a firing? Did he spit in Vince's face or something? Where was Danielson's was a legit firing for a reason, this was 100% a work. I will leave this place if it was legit.

 

[MrDASHINGaRROGaNCE]

It's a load of bs why build him up for years just to kill all credibility in one night?? Makes no sense Dolph is basically perfection he has the look, can wrassle his arse off, and he has a great character going for him. Hell like many stated here he made the IC title worth something again.

So to have Edge of all people completely bury Ziggler is proof WWE writers are losing their rabbit minds. Edge had nothing to lose Dolph had everything to gain why not let Ziggler go over him cleanly. But nooooo let's make Edge 11 time WHC which imho is quite ridiculous for somebody as injury prone and inconsistent in ring as Edge.

I see Dolph getting the Swagger/Sheamous/Alicia fox treatment by next month well it was nice while it lasted Dolph.

 

[martymcfly]

It's kind of funny...as soon as I saw this play out on television, I thought "I bet anything that there will be someone on the wrestlezone forum who will post a thread wondering if this was real or not."

Of course it was not real. They've been pushing DZ like crazy, attached him to major heat magnet vickie, and even let him "unofficially" be champion. Why would they waste time doing any of that just to fire him. Come on.

 

[Atreyu]

if this is real and they have fired him it will be a very bad mistake and i will be angry
but im sure it is all just kayfabe like they did with cena numerous times

as xcalypsox said he will go to raw or Vickie will get his job back someway

 

[Jack-Hammer]

There's no real way to defend this decision. It just doesn't do any good to anybody involved and it's just this sort of thing that gives people the impression that the titles are props. Technically speaking the titles might actually be props, but that's not how they're supposed to be portrayed.

It's just a disappointing end to the Edge/Ziggler feud and I don't really understand why the WWE went in this direction. That one tiny decision to recognize Ziggler's "reign", if that's what you want to call it, as official is a good example of lazy booking at its finest.

 

[Rayne]

Once upon a time, before Chris Jericho had won his first championship, he "won" the world title from Triple H, only to have HHH come out and force Earl Hebner to overturn his decision from earlier. (The sufficiently old around here might remember that as the time Chris Jericho started referring to himself as an Undisputed World Champion.) The run on that from the internet was that Chris Jericho looked weak for no reason, since if he could beat Triple H and not have it matter, then what was the point of him ever beating Triple H? The reason he was given the title for a few minutes, however, was to measure the crowd reaction for him- at that time an unproven commodity with a high potential upside. (As history has shown us, that upside played out.)

You're seeing the same thing here, in a different style, and executed in a less-than-slick fashion. Ziggler has a very high upside, but no one really knows if he has the "it" required to be a Top Guy. Not all of the guys with high upsides turn out to be Chris Jericho; some of them turn out to be Lex Luger or Bobby Lashley. Ziggler has to get his time, and they're easing him into it. Look at what happened to Jack Swagger when he got dumped into the role of world champion- his reign is remembered mostly for being more lackluster then any in recent memory.

There are better ways to execute this kind of angle. Having Edge take it back so quickly- and worse yet, on free cable, does make Dolph Ziggler look weak, instead of it being a neutral proposition. Why not have Ziggler win the title by blatantly cheating, have Teddy Long make a quick appearance the next week to overturn the result, then have Edge win the rematch? That's a time-tested formula for the test-a-champ method (see: Goldust v. Bob Holly), but stripping a popular champion only to have him take the championship back immediately serves no one. There was no time to build sufficient drama, and instead of Dolph Ziggler looking like an illegitimate champ who's a threat, he looks like an illegitimate champ who can be disposed of easily.

 

[Midgetmania619]

According to WWE's WHC history Dolph Ziggler was officially crowned as a world heavyweight champion champ tonight!(http://www.wwe.com/inside/titlehistory/worldheavyweight/)

It says N/A, how the hell did he win the title?

And I think, seeing as how Edge is now the champ, de facto, that was a BS tease to Dolph. He won't be seeing that title for months, they won't want two new upcoming stars to be epicentres of WrestleMania.

Very soon Edge will surpass HHH.

 

[Richard]

N/A in a title win on WWE.com usually means that the Superstar was presented with the Championship, right? I think that's what it means. I didn't watch SmackDown but Vickie declared him champ, right?

Anyhow this is just mind boggling for me to think Ziggler is a former World Heavyweight Champion. If we look back in the WWE's usage of it we see Triple H, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker... Dolph Ziggler? This just doesn't make sense as to why they would do this. There would have been no problem at all in having Edge agree to a rematch, have Vickie ban the spear, Teddy returns and legalises the spear and have Edge spear Ziggler to retain remaining at 10 World Championships.

This is going to be one of those things where they will look back this time last year when Ziggler isn't doing much and think to themselves "What were we thinking?". There is no chance in hell Ziggler is WHC material, IC sure, WHC, no chance in hell. Not yet anyway, maybe after a gimmick tweak as I don't know if the name Dolph Ziggler screams champion. Well, it must to some people.

 

[trendkiller]

Of course it was not real. They've been pushing DZ like crazy, attached him to major heat magnet vickie, and even let him "unofficially" be champion. Why would they waste time doing any of that just to fire him. Come on.

Mr. Kennedy ring a bell?

But alas, no, the WWE would have to be completely insane to get rid of Dolph Ziggler. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if they sent him off to development for a bit to work on his mic skills and then he can make his triumphant return (face or heel doesn't matter, he'll get a reaction) and go straight into the upper mid-card/main event.

On the other hand they might feel he's too hot to be allowed to cool down, so he might just as well be back after EC and this was all so that they could replace him in there for... I dunno... Deadman?

 

[Dark Horse]

Ya know I honestly don't see what everyone is so upset about. I've read your posts, but this upheaval over what just happened seems a bit unwarranted if you ask me. For all of you Dolph fans who are so upset over this, cheer up. Your guy was just declared a World Heavyweight Champion tonight, and that's the status quo forevermore. He did it in true heel fashion, by cheating his way to the top(masterfully I might add) with the aid of Vickie Guerrero.

For those of you old enough to remember it, I'm surprised none of you were taken aback to visions of Shawn Michaels and Sherri Martel. That's the picture I saw. This should only be a precursor to a bigger run, that is a good thing. Hell, I'm a biiiiiiiig JoMo mark, and I'm almost jealous. Dolph beat him to it. Of course, The Miz beat all of them to it but you get the point. Sure, Edge got the title right back. Big Deal. You didn't really think that Dolph was heading into Elimination Chamber as the champ did you? Of course not. Ziggler might win the Elimination Chamber for all we know too, this isn't the end of his career. He was made to look the way he was tonight because he is a heel, nothing more. It was entertaining to say the least as everything progressed throughout the show, and for God sake, Ziggler is still a former champion now in the books. Even if it was one of the shortest transitional title reigns ever, it still happened.

 

[Dark Horse]

NO, he was promoted to Unemployed.

Yes, he was technically fired on Smack Down but we all know better than that. Edge was fired and re-hired as well tonight so the WWE HR department must have been swamped with paperwork.

If he's really fired, that what are they going to do at Elimination Chamber??? Even kayfabe fired??? They say when one door closes another one opens. So what door is opened up now for Sunday??? If Dolph is fired that means he is out of the Elimination Chamber and that leaves one open slot. Who will it be???

 

[Dr. Stinger A. Zoidberg]

You guys really think he's fired? He's obviously not, and this is all part of storyline. It's simple -- Ziggler attacked Teddy, so Teddy fired him. He's not legitimately fired, and he's certainly not leaving the WWE. If you think otherwise, you're pretty stupid. Yes, he did say some comments on Twitter hinting at TNA, but all of that is fake. He has been fired for storyline purposes, and that only. How many times have you seen someone else in the WWE get "fired", and then return a few weeks later? This is the exact same thing.

 

[Megadeth]

Yeah this was definitely a questionable decision by the WWE at best. Personally, I think instead of declaring Dolph Champ and then having Edge immediately win it back, it would have made more since for Teddy Long to come out, and declare the title vacant because of all the stipulations and interference from Vickie, and refuse to recognize Dolph as Champ. Thus, the Elimination Chamber match would have been to declare a new World Champ. I like Dolph, but he should not have been declared a World Champ like that, it makes him and the belt look weaker.

It would have made more since if they were determined to give Dolph a reign, to at least have won against Edge tonight, which would have made since that Dolph could beat him this time, seeing as Edge had already wrestled in the 6 on 6 tag match at the beginning of the night, and thus been the reason why Teddy Long could not have fired him as long as he was World Champ, even if it only lasted through Elimination Chamber.

Either way, the payoff from this should have waited until the PPV, and the only reason I can figure as why they did it this way is they have either someone big coming in at the last minute to take Dolph's spot in the EC match and needed a reason to open the spot up, or because Dolph was already booked for the match, he will still be able to compete in the Chamber and win it, becoming Champ, thus keeping Long from firing him, which I think is doubtful at best.)

 

[pepentorresHHH]

the problem in this situation is because of 3 things IMO:
1) the prestige of the title is lowered....seriously?... a 6 mitute reign and a title switch at the end of the night....it makes the title look like a prop and nothing more...seriously why just not vacate the title or give dolph another title match and having him lose....instead they they do the idiotic thing....which leads me to the other 2 points
2) we all remember back in the day how a wrestler's first titlte win was a mark out moment...heel or face... it was awesome to see the new guy claw and fight his way to the top and finally winning the big one.... now im not saying that dolph should have given a 6 month reign....but come one! a 6 minute reigh? its officially the shortest WHC reign EVER!.....
3)Edge once again why he is the ultimate....transitional champion, even as a face he cant keep the title more than 2 months...and now he could very well lose the title at Mania, i think this is the man that will beat Flair IMHP!

 

[TheOrtonRevolution]

It seems to me it's pretty dang obvious that Ziggler's beef with Edge is not done yet. With the Spear "illegal", I'm pretty sure Vickie will use that excuse to either give Dolph the championship or place him in the Elimination Chamber match in the last minute. As for the rehiring problem, probably something to do with going over Teddy's head.

To be honest I thought it was great that the feud was finally or at least partially over. I'm getting tired of the weekly Ziggler/Edge title matches.

So basically,

What do you think is gonna happen with Ziggler?

How long do you think this feud is going to go on for?

Edit: Never mind, Cole stated the Spear was legal during Friday's match.