Does Santino's Reign Devalue the IC Title?

[Father:_Polley]

There's no way they'll have him break Honky Tonk Man's record. That was in a time where the champion appeared once every month or so. Besides, judging from the response Cena's reign got, people can't cope with long, active reigns. I say that because people like MVP and Londrick held the belt for over 330 days each, but rarely held the title.

There's no denying that Santino has flaws, the biggest being that WWE hasn't allowed him a real chance to wrestle, and still as a result only has the 'Rollup of Doom' as a finisher, but if people didn't like the guy and find him amusing, he wouldn't be getting this run.

As I've said, like him or not, he's getting the title out there and making you want the likes of Kofi to take it back. That's the best thing for a heel to do, to build up the guy who's going to go over him

 

[Slyfox696]

what kind of a future is getting bs wins over mid card guys and cracking a few jokes. hes never going to be any more then a comedic guy that cant wrestle. I'd rather have someone with a bright future have the title rather then someone with a below average future.

That's not what we were discussing. We were discussing who was the better candidate, Santino or D'Lo. And it's Santino every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Don't forget what it was that we were discussing.

I don't really think Dlo should be the champ either but he still would be a better champ then Santino.

Why? He puts on bad matches, has no mic skills, cracks no jokes, and has no future in the WWE.

Everything you counted against Santino counts against D'Lo, AND he doesn't have the favorable points that Santino does.

Getting dominated for an entire match and then winning with a rollup isnt adding any credibility to the title. I don't care how many times he does it.

Sure it does.

Fans don't think about that. If Santino defends the belt every week for 8 months, keeps his honk-a-meter, and keeps getting put in storylines with main-eventers, then it will most certainly give credibility. You're talking like you've only been watching wrestling for 5 years.

Are you really comparing John Cena to Santino?

No, I'm showing you how a lengthy title reign can go a long way towards building the credibility of said title.

 

[shafe_41]

I already think the IC Title has little credibility left to it anyway. I mean with the exceptions of Edge and Randy Orton (who actually brought credibility to the title...Orton didso more than Edge), who was the last person before Orton to win the IC Title and actually follow it up with a win of one of the major titles? The only catch there is, who won it, that hadn't already won a major title or has been an established star in another company (ECW, WCW)? That discounts Triple H, Jericho, Booker T, Kane, Benoit, RVD, and other such superstars. Before Edge and Orton, the last WWE originally bred superstar to win the IC Title and lead it to a heavyweight title reign...Kurt Angle. That was in 2000. Now you could also argue due to his background, he was already somewhat established and well-known throughout the wrestling world anyway. So if you discount Kurt Angle, the last one was The Rock, or you could argue Ken Shamrock but again... he was established somewhat through UFC. Nobody has lived up to the credibility of the IC Title in my eyes (with the exception of Randy Orton) since Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels. The IC Title has been devalued so much because it now just seems to be something thrown around to someone that is stuck in mid-card hell to make them seem like they're actually doing something. I mean it hasn't been defended at Wrestlemania in like 563 years. I believe the last one was RVD and William Regal. Sure I love the MITB matches, but WM could use an epic IC title match sometime again. The IC title should be used as lengthy reigns to a superstar on the rise. Who would be a great champion to bring some credibility back to the IC title? I think a good long run with it by Morrisson, Shelton, Kennedy, or CM Punk would really push all those guys to the top where they belong. I think Punk did a pretty decent job with his Heavyweight title run, but he could use a little more work on the mic and a couple little things in the ring that defending the IC title on a regular basis could give him. The IC Title has and always will be one of my favorite titles in wrestling, and I want to see it used more, and used seriously.

 

[Big Sexy]

Why? He puts on bad matches, has no mic skills, cracks no jokes, and has no future in the WWE.

I already said i don't think D lo should be champ either, but he does put on good matches and if they ever gave him a chance to talk his mic skills aren't bad.

Fans don't think about that. If Santino defends the belt every week for 8 months, keeps his honk-a-meter, and keeps getting put in storylines with main-eventers, then it will most certainly give credibility. You're talking like you've only been watching wrestling for 5 years.

I've been watching wrestling my whole life, but I really dont know what that has to do with anything. And someone having a belt for 8 months and getting squashed by main eventers does not give the title credibility at all. It's just showing how little value it has that Santino was ever able to win it in the first place.

No, I'm showing you how a lengthy title reign can go a long way towards building the credibility of said title.

It doesnt give a title credibility if the person holding the title doesnt deserve it. Londrick had the tag titles forever but it didnt give the tag titles any more credibility, they just didnt have any better teams to beat them. There are guys on raw a lot better then Santino that could have the ic title.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

LOL fucking right the honky meter, and Santino, give the title more credibility. its building every damn week.

It works the exact same way The Honky reighn did. So you say him getting his ass whipped and winning cheaply every week is shit?? Um what??? Thats whats known as heel phsycology 101. Thats exactly HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO WORK, not two guys trading tiger dragon suplexes off the top rope for 30 minutes. Fuck that.

People will HATE Santino, and will be SO annoyed by him, whomever finally whips his ass and takes it from him, will get over HUGE. Which is the heels job. Get people to like the face, and make them look strong. Anyone who feuds with Santino will look storng and get over, throughout the duration of this entire reighn. Which is exactly how a heel champion, especially an IC heel champion, should be. He clutches the title as precious, is annoying, cheats to get cheap wins, and spends the vast majority of time getting the shit kicked out of him. People have been watching far too much smarkamania if they dont dig the honky meter.

 

[LMaruko]

I think Santino as a IC does not devalue such a title. Bringing up the point of IC25, Heel 101 is all about what Santino does. And yet, Santino has an unusually different approach to this whole scenario (from what I've seen in the past) where he's comical in his promos, and he even uses that comedy (and as a IC champ) to confront the likes of Batista, JBL, and other heels. Santino, I think, is a heel and a face in certain lights as he mixes things up (but mostly a heel). I believe the longer he holds onto it, with a couple of clean wins here and there, the IC title won't be devalued. It is a lot of elements that claim a title its fame throughout the WWE. However, seeing as the Tag titles are pretty much thrown in the gutter without viable contenders and tag teams.

If you will, take a look at a former title; the Cruiserweight title. Mind you, this was a very prestigious title because not only did it give a chance for the top Cruiserweights (Jericho, Chavo and Eddie, ReyRey) in the business a chance to stand out and have some competition, it was a top tier belt for lighter mid-carders, save the IC belt. But then again, who was the Cruiserweight's last champ? Hornswoggle! Hornswoggle devalued that title worse than Gillberg devalued the Light Heavyweight Championship (okay, that's debatable). If Vickie Guerrero didn't retire that belt, Noble would have been one hell of a champion and not have to spend his time wooing girls and jobbing to top-car heavyweight jobbers. Jobbing to a jobber isn't how one should spend his days in WWE.

Back to topic, no, Santino is doing a fantastic job as an IC champ heel. Keep up the good work, you crazy Canadian.

 

[robwylde90]

...Bring up thee Honk-o-Meter! Santino is doing a fantastic job as intercontinental champion and isn't devaluing the thing at all.Having asked almost everyone I know that watches wrestling HATES Santino Marella and his 64 week aspirations. Like has been said above, thats just how its ment to be done. The polar opposite of a monster heel, by disputedly winning his matches with other mid carders in such ridiculous fashion , fans dont see santino as the real deal , and think hes undeserving , which is why people hate him so much , WWE hasn't had a heel this good in quite some time , and if good heel title reigns devalue a belt then WWE should pawn its titles while its still ahead.

 

[Crush1]

Does Santino's Reign Devalue the IC Title? Yes.In all my years as a wrestling viewer i havent seen a worse IC champion than santino Marella.

His gimmick is being a funny italian jobber which i dont find funny, and hanging around many divas.And whats worse is if this gimmick of marella doesnt change we are going to see him winning with luck and help from other parties, until he breaks honky's streak.

Santino is the first jobber to ever be the IC champion, altough he uses heel tactics he still looks weak because he cant win on his own strenght.I know thats not what heels are suposed to do but i cant recall the last time santino ever won a match without cheating, luck or interference.

 

[roujinziro]

Santino wouldn't be so bad as a credible champion if they would actually let him wrestle and show some ability in the ring. I understand he's a comedy heel and is supposed to look bad, but I know the guy has to have some amount of wrestling ability. There's no denying that he's a great entertainer, but either having him job or just wrestle 2-3 minute matches is what's devaluing the IC title.

 

[Straight_Edge_Mystic]

At first, I didn't think that Santino was devalusing the IC Title, but I've been realizing lately that he is, at least to me, because everytime I think of who the champions are, I always forget that Santino is the Intercontinental Champion. I think that that is a sign that his reign has been lackluster and unimpressive, which in turn devalues the title. Even more so when it's used as a comedy prop, so yes he is devaluing the IC title. It's only a matter of time until we get a worthy IC Champion because the Honk-a-Meter will become boring and pointless.

 

[JackAttack]

Well, there is absolutely no way you can devalue a belt which has seemed nonexistant and inconsequential for the past few months!

Like others have said, Santino can only bring more value to the title, and he has been doing that every week. Whether you like him or not, you can't deny that he is every bit of an entertainer. As opposed to what others say, he doesn't just talk in a funny accent, each week he brings new comedy acts to the table and puts on a show.

 

[Suneeboy]

Santino is doing a good job as IC champ just based on the fact that this thread is so long! Santino gets a reaction from the crowd, and his reign has grown on me. I hope he can at least keep it until week 63! That would be funny....right when he's about to break the record...boom he loses to someone up and coming!

 

[PDecicco]

Santino is doing exactly what needs to be done. And if Kennedy wasn't drafted to SD! or WWE had another face on the verge of breaking into ME territory, in 50 + weeks the IC title would be huge,

Santino is one of the best heels WWE has right now, for all the reasons mentioned about half a million times. And more over he brags about a title that for the longest time was an after thought. Yeah, he's not in the greatest matches, but at least he is getting the title seen again. The best way to bring back the IC Title's prestige to make people realize its something to covet.

Think about it, Santino breaks the record defends his belt, people are booing and hissing, Santino says he can take on all challengers because he is the best because he beat the "honk-a-tonk-a man's record" And then you heard "KENNEDY!"

The place would erupt. Kennedy could squash Marella and the title would be huge again.

 

[OIL]

The IC Title has been devalued ever since the WWE stopped using it in proper storylines.

By this I mean, you'll never see a fued anymore where say, the current champion Santino gets challenged by say, Mysterio and it's all because of the IC Title. Now they just throw the belt on whoever they deem fit, and not even bother mentioning it anymore. There is no real purpose to the belt anymore, it's more of a trophy piece.

Long gone are the days where it was considered a huge belt, and wrestlers would find it a huge honour in winning, or for that matter, just deemed big enough for it's own storyline.

Now, with Santino.. since he's not even defending the belt in a proper storyline, yes, his reign does devalue the IC Title. It makes it seem un-important because there isn't any major storylines surrounding the belt.

 

[JackAttack]

Now, with Santino.. since he's not even defending the belt in a proper storyline, yes, his reign does devalue the IC Title. It makes it seem un-important because there isn't any major storylines surrounding the belt.

It may not be a particularly good storyline, but atleast he's actually defending the belt at PPV's. When Jericho was IC champ, he never defended it at any PPV's. It was just a worthless piece of jewlery he walked out with during all his matches.

His reign can't devalue it, becuase it didn't have any value before he had it. Santino actually cares about the belt, something that most prior IC champs have lacked.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Santino's reign is helping the belt. The IC (and US for that matter) belts seem like they have next to nothing in terms of something to be proud of winning, its like they put it on someone who is either not good enough to be a main eventer yet or someone who will never reach that level.

The longer the honkameter thing goes on, the more the belt will seem like something good to win for those that aren't feuding for the heavyweight title. I actually want to see Santino set a new record with the belt and play out the honkamater thing for the next year or so.

When he finally breaks the record then he can begin to go on and on about how he is the best IC champ ever, then the fans will want someone to shut him up because this thing will have dragged on for an extremely long time by then. The person who finally ends the honkamater angle (My guess is it will be someone like Bourne or Kofi.... or even one of the guys from Priceless if the stable has split up by then.) They will become very over with the fans, thus bringing prestige back to the belt.

So, that's why I think Santino's reign does NOT devalue the belt. It is doing exactly the opposite, especially if he gets to set a new record.

 

[Milkyway!]

i like the way santino is as a champion, the way he walks around with it as if it was a WORLD championship. hes the best heel they have seen in this industry, since edge. even better than edge at that. he plays a perfect heel, its not the champion that is devaulating the belt, its the challengers. Kofi, is no longer going for the title....he had his rematch, and they moved him on....so stop blaiming the champion, and blaim the challengers.

 

[Milkyway!]

When he finally breaks the record then he can begin to go on and on about how he is the best IC champ ever, then the fans will want someone to shut him up because this thing will have dragged on for an extremely long time by then. The person who finally ends the honkamater angle (My guess is it will be someone like Bourne or Kofi.... or even one of the guys from Priceless if the stable has split up by then.) They will become very over with the fans, thus bringing prestige back to the belt.

i like the way you put these, but theres something i dissagree with, it should go to the next big star...who that is, i dont know, but they should keep it running as long as it takes, till the young star comes in, and they should shaft him into a title immidiatly...some people hate that, but in this scenerio, it would be perfect...=\ if it be the next "monster" or if it be someone that has immediate charisma after a couple time on ecw (a guy like bourne) but, he should be thrown onto the title fued with santino (who by that time may be a better wrestler in the ring, we still have a year and two weeks to go) and it will help elivate them..dramatically once again, you guys may dissagree with this, but i like it...=\ and im just here to express my opinion

 

[angelbaby]

i think he has devalued it a bit for the fact that he is being portrayed as a joke. i never really thought that he was to be taken seriously from the time they brought him into the wwe because of how they did it. having him win a title the first time he supposedly stepped into the ring was a little weird to meand i agree Kofi Kingston would be a perfect IC champ in every way. he has the draw and charisma that the IC championship needs to make it better. Kofi is absolutely amazing to watch on TV but to see him in person is beyond that. the interaction that he has with the crowd in person is amazing.

 

[Father:_Polley]

i think he has devalued it a bit for the fact that he is being portrayed as a joke. i never really thought that he was to be taken seriously from the time they brought him into the wwe because of how they did it. having him win a title the first time he supposedly stepped into the ring was a little weird to meand i agree Kofi Kingston would be a perfect IC champ in every way. he has the draw and charisma that the IC championship needs to make it better. Kofi is absolutely amazing to watch on TV but to see him in person is beyond that. the interaction that he has with the crowd in person is amazing.

The thing though, Santino isn't being pushed as a dominant champion. He's there so that the person who takes it off him does so in a manner which gives him credibility. That's the purpose of a heel champion...to rile the crowd and make them get behind the faces. Santino does that well, and if WWE wanted to put the belt on Kofi, he'd look better as a result of having an effective heel in the position of champion

 

[angelbaby]

The thing though, Santino isn't being pushed as a dominant champion. He's there so that the person who takes it off him does so in a manner which gives him credibility. That's the purpose of a heel champion...to rile the crowd and make them get behind the faces. Santino does that well, and if WWE wanted to put the belt on Kofi, he'd look better as a result of having an effective heel in the position of champion

i never really thought of it that way. but i do think in all seriousness that Kofi would be an awesome champ and would really have the ability to boost the wwe and the ic championship.

 

[Father:_Polley]

He would, no doubt. He's an athletic guy, but the fact is, Santino's there for a little while. Kingston will get the chance again, and will more than likely make the most of it, but he'll look better taking it from an annoying heel and making people excited about it, as opposed to a win over the likes of Haas which no-one would care about

 

[Shocky]

I'm going to take this discussion in a new area, sort of. It seems to have slowed down, but it's a good thread. People ask whether or not Santino as IC champion now devalues the title, which is debatable I guess. The next phase should be, Should the WWE let Santino be the longest reigning IC champion ever?

My quick thoughts are, yes. I know it's debatable to say this, but the title isn't what it once was and doesn't have the value it once did. A Santino year plus title reign will draw much needed attention to the mid card title. Honky has had that reign as Longest champion for 20 years now, it's about time the WWE at least considers the possibility of letting someone else carry that mantel.

Will it elevate Santino to the next level? Doubtful in my opinion. The cowardly heel is a great, great mid card level champion role, but to be as cowardly as he is, it won't work on the next stage. But the Santino character works, and he needs to be on TV at every show. He's a great heat magnet for a mid card wrestler, something that division has lacked greatly in the past few years. If it's not broke, don't break it. Santino is over where he is, and has a title that needs some attention to it, it's the perfect formula.

So yes, the WWE shoudl really consider letting this thing ride out. It might be obnoxious for some now (I think it's hilarious). Imagine though the heat that Santino is going to get once he gets to 50 weeks, and I daresay 60 weeks. People will be wanting Santino's head. The person that stops the streak or ends the reign is going to receive a huge boost from it.

 

[Crush1]

Should the WWE let Santino be the longest reigning IC champion ever?My quick thoughts are, yes. I know it's debatable to say this, but the title isn't what it once was and doesn't have the value it once did.

If the IC title doesn't have the value it once did, Wouldn't it make more sense to upgrade the title, by giving it to a superstar who is talented and can make the title look good?

A Santino year plus title reign will draw much needed attention to the mid card title. Honky has had that reign as Longest champion for 20 years now,

The only way it draws attention to the IC title, is in a negative way. You cant expect a fan to believe that the longest reigning IC champion is a comedical jobber.

it's about time the WWE at least considers the possibility of letting someone else carry that mantel.

I agree that someone else should be the longest reigning IC champion, but not Marella. If Marella would become the L.R.I.C i think the title would have permanent damage, because of the fact that he's a cowardly heel, jobber. People could not ever take the title serious. Think about it, if someone as weak as Marella was in fact the L.R.I.C, the marks would think that almost anyone can win it. It wouldn't be worth feuding for. And it wouldn't be able to push a young superstar to get him over with that title.

Will it elevate Santino to the next level? Doubtful in my opinion. The cowardly heel is a great, great mid card level champion role, but to be as cowardly as he is, it won't work on the next stage.

Fact.

But the Santino character works, and he needs to be on TV at every show. He's a great heat magnet for a mid card wrestler, something that division has lacked greatly in the past few years. If it's not broke, don't break it. Santino is over where he is, and has a title that needs some attention to it, it's the perfect formula.

Yes Marella is indeed over with the fans with his comedy act, but that means he can stand on his own without an IC title and that the management has even more reason to not let Marella hold the title.There is only one reason why, and thats because he looks weak. They dont let him wrestle, and make him look strong. Instead he runs away, wins with luck, help aka a cowardly heel. If Marella actualy did look strong in the ring and dominated his oponents the IC title would be elevated and have more value.

So yes, the WWE shoudl really consider letting this thing ride out. It might be obnoxious for some now (I think it's hilarious). Imagine though the heat that Santino is going to get once he gets to 50 weeks, and I daresay 60 weeks. People will be wanting Santino's head. The person that stops the streak or ends the reign is going to receive a huge boost from it.

I agree with your idea. They should let someone who is over with the fans end Marella's streak just before he hits the 64 weeks milestone. And that entertainer would have the chance to become huge.

 

[Shocky]

If the IC title doesn't have the value it once did, Wouldn't it make more sense to upgrade the title, by giving it to a superstar who is talented and can make the title look good?

Arguably, the last credible champion in my opinion was Randy Orton. Since then, the belt has been worthless. Well worthless in the sense of not having the value it once did. The WWE has 3 world title, 2 mid card title, 2 divas title, and 2 tag titles, that's 9 belts that people in one company can win, as compared to the IC title being the only other singles title up until 2001. The WWE has tried to put the belt on guys like Umaga, Jeff Hardy, and Chris Jericho. Chris Jericho just lsot the WHC, and Jeff Hardy is probably one of the five most over guys on the roster, yet it did nothing to elevate that title.

The only way it draws attention to the IC title, is in a negative way. You cant expect a fan to believe that the longest reigning IC champion is a comedical jobber.

So. It draws attention to the title, and the old saying is, bad press is still press. The title is still getting attention, negative or not. It will get people to care about. Plus, the longest reigning IC champion in history is a comedy heel, so it's not going to change people's perception of that belt.

I agree that someone else should be the longest reigning IC champion, but not Marella. If Marella would become the L.R.I.C i think the title would have permanent damage, because of the fact that he's a cowardly heel, jobber. People could not ever take the title serious. Think about it, if someone as weak as Marella was in fact the L.R.I.C, the marks would think that almost anyone can win it. It wouldn't be worth feuding for. And it wouldn't be able to push a young superstar to get him over with that title.

But the Honky Tonk Man is exactly what Marrella is now, a comedy jobber. Sure, he feuded with big name guys, but his tactics were the same. He essentially hid behind the stable of guys that Jimmy Hart put together, and nailed people with a guitar with the refs back turned. All that being said, the Warrior beat him in 12 seconds and skyrocketed his career because of that, getting the belt off of Honky.

Fact.

So wouldn't that make him a perfect midcard IC champion?

Yes Marella is indeed over with the fans with his comedy act, but that means he can stand on his own without an IC title and that the management has even more reason to not let Marella hold the title.There is only one reason why, and thats because he looks weak. They dont let him wrestle, and make him look strong. Instead he runs away, wins with luck, help aka a cowardly heel. If Marella actualy did look strong in the ring and dominated his oponents the IC title would be elevated and have more value.

But if Marella was made to look strong, then his gimmick would be ruined. His gimmick is the cocky foreigner that talks a big game, and does the least amount to back it up. Everyone should beat Santino, but yet he wins every time, it'll drive people nuts, and get them in a fever pitch to see the belt come off of him.

I agree with your idea. They should let someone who is over with the fans end Marella's streak just before he hits the 64 weeks milestone. And that entertainer would have the chance to become huge.

So you want Santino as champion?