Do we really need Randy Orton back?

[Pegusus Fill_T]

It's laughable when people say that Orton is not a draw. He constantly drew good ratings when he was WWE Champ on Raw, Carried Raw when Cena was injured in 2008 with Age of Orton thing and his feud with Triple H in 2009 gained the highest ratings ever in last 5-6 years alongside 1000 episode. If Orton is not a draw then neither are IWC faves CM Punk, Ziggler, DB etc. Going by IWC logic, WWE should stick to Cena (which you all hate) and some old guys like Rey Rey, Trips, UT, Rock and 5 million Brock Lesnar since they are the bigger draws than orton. The bigger picture most of you forget is that IWC is a VERY small community of the WWE universe. You may hate Cena, Orton & Triple H and BUT the WWE Universe including the kids and women come/tune in to watch those guys. So yeah in IWC universe - Keep Boreton out. Fire him. Job SuperCena. Make Ziggler the face of WWE. But since Vince caters to the WWE Universe that wouldnt happen. As for Orton lacking talent as I mentioned earlier, Bret Hart, triple H, Cena, Arn Anderson, Paul Heyman disagree

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The reason not to have him is as a lesson to other talent... Keep him of TV till the Rumble and have him go in at number one and eliminated. Make it clear that if you are given the ball and screw up there are long lasting consequences.

In the meantime, make clear to Orton, the only way he is coming back to the main roster on a long term basis is under a re-negotiated deal, where he is paid less, for a shorter space of time as he is currently a major liability wellness wise.

 

[Larry]

Lets look at this from a business perspective.

Do we really need a marketable name, profitable figure, who is over with the fans, can be placed on just about anything and make it sell, who can put on top quality in-ring matches, has a history with the company, is a former nine time World Heavyweight/WWE Champion, has been the top heel in the company, one of the top faces and in a company that lacks star power is nothing but a star and an asset, and isn't even in his late thirties yet, do we really need him?

It's pretty self self explanatory.

I think this is probably the best case for Orton in the whole thread, other individual points aside. I literally got a headache (seriously) from reading a lot of the crap that people said both pro and con as it pertains to Randy Orton, and now I take my turn at adding my two cents.

Personally, I don't think that the WWE has been hurting in his absence in the slightest. People may make their criticisms of the recent happenings in the WWE, but I don't think anyone can say that the WWE has been worse for wear without Orton. There may be some people who do, but I don't see him being incredibly missed. I don't hear a lot of people demanding to have Randy Orton back, I don't see posts filled with outrage that he isn't back yet demanding that he be placed on his rightful pedestal upon return, I don't hear people talking about how much they've missed The Viper and how dead either show has been without him.

So what does that say? I think it says that regardless of everything Dragon Saga noted, the WWE doesn't really need him and it wouldn't make a difference if he was canned, never to return or not. If you're Randy Orton, I'd take note of that and get my shit together, maybe reevaluate my priorities and decide whether or not I give a damn about keeping my job. I'd go back to the drawing board and start thinking of a clever way to reinvent myself or improve the appeal of my character somehow to make sure that if I were to be absent again, the crickets aren't louder than the fans chanting for my return. I'd be humbled before myself and realize that not only am I lucky to still have my job, but that if I don't take on a different attitude, approach it more seriously, and maybe with a little more respect for the status I enjoy, that there are a whole line of talented guys right behind me waiting like sharks in the ocean to take my spot.

What options are there for Randy Orton? Go to TNA? Sure deal, and that's going to afford him the same status, the same credibility, the same opportunities, or the same paycheck? We all know the answers to those questions, none of which are favorable for him. Like it or not, Randy Orton without the WWE is no big deal. Yes, he's talented, but the genius of a guy like Vince McMahon is that he knows the talent is only as big as the stage it has to perform on, and without that stage, Orton is just another wrestler trying to look like that's where he belongs. He's not going to be a game changer in TNA, their acquisition of his services isn't going to take TNA to another level, nor will it take him to another level.

We as fans have plenty of options available to us as far as wrestlers go, there's plenty of guys to choose from to be our favorites and most hated. Wrestlers by nature of the business don't have that luxury. They can't choose to have fans adore them, or even hate them, we have to choose it. If the WWE decided tomorrow that Randy Orton has outlived his usefulness, we would be fine, the WWE would be fine, and someone else would take his spot in no time making Randy Orton a distant memory. WE don't need Randy Orton back, he needs us back, and he needs the stage the WWE provides back more than anything.

 

[d3thRoW]

No, he isn't needed. He could be an asset, of course but I can't say I've missed him during the suspension at all. Not entirely his fault I don't think...He had fallen into WWE's cookie-cutter mold for it's super faces. It's boring to watch, his matches have all been the same, I mean you can call the spots from your couch before they happen, and he's had maybe one really good promo that I can remember in a long time. They need to either let him do something to change up his staleness, or just use him to put over the guys that will take his spot anyway. He could go to TNA, but he can't bump their ratings anyway, nobody else has been able to either though so not a knock on him. I understand he has the respect of some top names in the business, and some of those names' opinions I respect a lot, but I just don't think he has the fan's interest at this point.

 

[Dirk]

Randy is the guy to save Smackdown. If the WWE doesn't need him, Smackdown sure does... Their main-event needs some starpower ASAFP. This is just my opinion (as a non-fan of him), but I don't think Sheamus can carry the show on his own.

 

[Corpse_Machine]

I think they could survive without Orton at the moment if they had to, but the thing is Smackdown is seriously lacking in 'star power', so it cant hurt to have Orton back on the show. I would imagine he still has fans, he's definitely among the top superstars in WWE at this time, Orton's one of the best they have right now to be fair. Smackdown needs Randy Orton!

 

[THTRobtaylor]

From a business perspective? You have an overpaid, long term deal with a talent who has a history of being unpleasant, causing potential harrasment suits, failing wellness and who has cost you talent with his bullying (does anyone believe Kennedy was really THAT reckless or that someone who shits in girls purses is a "S.T.A.R"?)

By all means keep him as he is over, sells merch etc... but NOT on his large, 7 year deal, when he has failed 2 wellness tests in that time so far. The odds are not good that he will not do so again. So keep him, but make him take the cut, make the deal loaded that he has to prove himself rather than take guaranteed money. IF that's not what he wants, then by all means let him go to TNA, because he will have no fun there with the amount of people he has pissed off on their roster and if they are dumb enough to take him, then you can pick up some talent yourself like a now better Kennedy etc.

 

[newteenforbb]

I am just still really surprised that Randy even found himself in this spot. For all the backstage stories we have heard in the last few years coupled with his DVD and all, I was leaning toward agreeing with those who have said he matured and entered a new chapter in his life. I'll be honest, when I first heard of the suspension, it really did shock me even though other people were of course expecting it and not surprised at all.

What in the world was he thinking? Did he really think he was that high a priority for the company that he could skate by a wellness violation? Or did he just not care? I know a lot of stories have been written about him actually advocating for time off and even welcoming "injury-type" stories so he could have time off but this would be a really stupid way of going about it. I just can't wrap my head around why he did this unless of course, he has a real problem that will eventually require some type of rehab. If that is the case, it will only be a matter of time before this happens again. As much as I dislike the guy, I feel for anyone who has to deal with any type of substance abuse. I guess we will never truly know what happened.

And yeah, I know this entire post was away from the original thread topic of should he even come back but I just wanted to get that out there.

 

[RKOwner]

WWE has been fine without Orton. Personally I've missed Barrett without so much as even acknowledging Orton's absence. Sure Orton has recieved a ton of well deserved praise for his ring work but as Stone Cold said he's one dimensional. The crowd will pop when he returns but people will continue watching if he's not around.

 

[RKOwner]

I am just still really surprised that Randy even found himself in this spot. For all the backstage stories we have heard in the last few years coupled with his DVD and all, I was leaning toward agreeing with those who have said he matured and entered a new chapter in his life. I'll be honest, when I first heard of the suspension, it really did shock me even though other people were of course expecting it and not surprised at all.

What in the world was he thinking? Did he really think he was that high a priority for the company that he could skate by a wellness violation? Or did he just not care? I know a lot of stories have been written about him actually advocating for time off and even welcoming "injury-type" stories so he could have time off but this would be a really stupid way of going about it. I just can't wrap my head around why he did this unless of course, he has a real problem that will eventually require some type of rehab. If that is the case, it will only be a matter of time before this happens again. As much as I dislike the guy, I feel for anyone who has to deal with any type of substance abuse. I guess we will never truly know what happened.

And yeah, I know this entire post was away from the original thread topic of should he even come back but I just wanted to get that out there.

Yeah I was also surprised but then I sort of reasoned it in my head. The guy has been spoiled by the company. He's a 9 time world champ at 32 years old. He's done just about everything he can possibly do. At this stage he's probably just jaded with the business in general. Randy's just as bored with the company as we are with his face turn lol

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Even more reason if that's truly the case... Vince wants hungry guys, not spoiled, jaded ones. If Orton is sooo unhappy in his spot then they can give it to Barrett without losing much and Orton can go.

Can you imagine if someone had said that in the 80's or 90's... someone like DiBiase or Jake had said, "I'm bored of what you have for me, so I'm just gonna go get wasted instead..." (of which is Orton's true level, upper mid at most)... Vince would have said, ok... don't let the door hit you... next... Why should it be different today?

 

[RKOwner]

I totally agree. Orton's been afforded a ton of opportunities and hasn't flourished. That's evidence of his upper mid-card level in and of itself and he should be held to the same standards as anyone past or present. The bored comment was because I just don't see any passion in his ring work as I do with guys like Cena, Punk and Bryan. Orton gives off the impression like he's just working in the ring. He hits his spots, rko, then off to the back.

 

[Pegusus Fill_T]

If Orton is sooo unhappy in his spot then they can give it to Barrett without losing much and Orton can go.

Again typical IWC mentality. Yes, IWC wouldnt miss Orton. Sure thing. But like I said Vinnie Mac caters to WWE Universe NOT IWC. In the eyes of the WWE Universe Wade Barrett is nowhere near Orton. The IWC stream PPVs and constantly change their guy every 6 months. But the WWE Uni. buy merch, PPVs, DVDs etc. Hence Cena is king followed by Rey and Orton

There may be some people who do, but I don't see him being incredibly missed. I don't hear a lot of people demanding to have Randy Orton back, I don't see posts filled with outrage that he isn't back yet demanding that he be placed on his rightful pedestal upon return, I don't hear people talking about how much they've missed The Viper and how dead either show has been without him.

I dont think there will be any hate posts from WWE Uni unless Cena gets fired TBH. Yeah there was a twitter outrage about Christian losing the title in 6 days (I agree Christian deserved a chance to showcase his talents as champ) but look what happened - Long feud with Orton and a 1 month title reign. Whether you like it or not kids make up the majority of the WWE Universe. So kids like Cena & Rey Rey and then teens like Orton. Women like all three of them. Punk is catered to a much adult oriented fanbase etc. Barrett? As talented as he is, the only time WWE Universe hated him was when the Nexus angle was going and when he was feuding with Cena.

Vince wants hungry guys, not spoiled, jaded ones

Stone Cold Steve Austin and Hulk Hogan says hi

 

[KingOfDiamonds]

WWE tv is doing fine without Orton. Orton violated a wellness policy twice now and just search online how many wrestlers were canned after one or two offenses. The WWE seems to want to keep him around, and I'm cool with that Orton is a good performer. Just needs to get his act straight outside of the ring.

 

[sdelfin]

Does WWE need Orton? If that's the question, the answer is no. But Orton has qualities that are in short supply. He's always over, which is worth a lot. Bottom line is, Orton has value. The more guys WWE has hanging around the main event scene, the better it is for them and for business, even if they keep him away from the top titles. If they want to put the mid-card titles on him, it raises their value. If they want him to go into a tag team, it gives the division credibility and visibility. There's a lot they can do with him. Wade Barrett ended up looking great thanks to feuding with Orton.

The Hillside mentioned that Sheamus' title reign has been boring. That says more about creative than anything else. The bookers continue to ignore the lessons of the past, such as the Ultimate Warrior's title reign in 1990. They built to the big match with Hogan, and then they had no credible heels for Warrior. Who are the big threats to Sheamus? He already beat Ziggler on tv three or four times in a few weeks. Now there's Del Rio. He squashes Santino and Ryder over and over in matches that do no good for anyone. He always manages to become number one contender but is never booked to be a serious threat to the champions. So, yeah, Sheamus is a boring champ. I think he's doing good work. It's the booking that is ruining his run at the top.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

"typical IWC mentality" erm no... more a realistic evaluation of a man who has repeatedly screwed up throughout his life (Marine career included) compared to a man who has an equal level of talent, who has not screwed up, made the most of the few opportunities he has had and whom many in the "WWE Universe" actually thought outclassed Orton in their last feud. You think he wasn't hated when he threw Orton down the stairs? Barrett still needs a little work, but with the exception of the 9-10 age bracket I don't see many people shedding tears if Orton is replaced by him. Orton appeals mainly to those kids who are too old for Cena, Brodus, Rey and Sin Cara et al but not quite sophisticated as fans yet to appreciate gimmicks more based in reality like Punk, Bryan, Barrett and Jericho. They even toned down his crazy stuff over time so it's now just bashing his fists on the mat before an RKO.

Orton had a shelf life that he quickly reached, there is no 6th gear for him, no real "reinvention" potential like Taker, HBK, Triple H and Jericho have shown in the past.

This coupled with his backstage problems means Vince as a BUSINESS man cannot continue to pay a "jaded" worker with substance issues a monster salary, potentially for 7 more years AND put him in a prominent position over fresher, equally talented guys who display the desire and hunger to be where Orton seemingly doesn't want to be.

The proof in the pudding will be Barrett's reaction when he returns... If it's done right, I see him putting Randy Orton under a lot of pressure for that "Ted DiBiase" spot of WWE.

 

[Pegusus Fill_T]

more a realistic evaluation of a man who has repeatedly screwed up throughout his life (Marine career included)

This is about randy's WWE career not outside the ring. Yeah he went AWOL but if you watched WWE in 2003 (I doubt you have) then it was made pretty prominent then with him being called a coward. Orton himself admitted that he is embarrassed the way he has behaved in the past and how he went AWOL and was ashamed of his past. Similarly Orton and others including Punk, Cena, Trips, Arn has said how Orton has turned over a new leaf after his daughter's birth. So cut the guy some slack. Hogan, HBK played backstage politics and refused to put people over (In HBK's case when he was young) Look how HBK turned over a new leaf. Stone Cold was a wifebeater for pete's sake. Jerk > Wifebeater.

compared to a man who has an equal level of talent, who has not screwed up, made the most of the few opportunities he has had

Agreed. I like Barrett and he had made most of his opportunities. No arguments from me bro.

whom many in the "WWE Universe" actually thought outclassed Orton in their last feud.

You mean you? your IWC buddies? because wrestling wise nobody executes moves better than Orton at present (okay MAYBE DB & Y2J). That's why Hart called Orton the new excellence of execution. That's why Trips, Arn Anderson said he glides in the ring in a way only HBK is capable of, That's why Cena called him the best of the generation. That is why Heyman marked out for Orton. As for storyline wise yeah Barrett got the better of Orton.

Vince as a BUSINESS man cannot continue to pay a "jaded" worker with substance issues a monster salary, potentially for 7 more years AND put him in a prominent position over fresher, equally talented guys who display the desire and hunger to be where Orton seemingly doesn't want to be.

Vinnie Mac as a businessman does what brings him money and ratings. Orton brings money and is the most recognized FULLTIME performer outside the ring after Cena and (maybe Otunga) That's why he persisted with SCSA and that's why he brought back a 'jaded' Brock Lesnar

 

[bedz_ses]

Lemme start off by saying that Orton is(or may be was) one of the top stars of the company before being suspended. I personally didnt miss him much, bt if we look at the current product, he can definitely be used to put some guys over.. He can feud with guys like d bry, ziggler, cody or even newcomers like sandow and ryback.. so, bringing him back would seem to be a better option...
And besides, the current product needs one or two more feuds to keep the viewers from getting too many squash matches.

 

[Kelso1ftw]

Orton really hasn't been out of competition for more than a few weeks in quite sometime.. and I would like to hope he is taking this time and tweaking his character and hopefully he would be able to bring break the great orton we loved from his feuds with DX when he was with Rated-RKO and with the Undertaker... also I think WWE can actually use him as since he is under contract for like 7 more years, why fire him when they can still make money off of him? But if they can give Orton an impactful return and make him meaningful to the company again instead of throwing him in random feuds... sure right now they can probably move on and find someone to replace what he is doing now.. but its going to be hard to find someone that has the potential like Orton has

 

[Beyond Pro Wrestling]

Kane, Wade Barret, Cody Rhodes, Mark Henry, Christian... Those have been Randy's feuds since he was drafted to Smackdown! a move made in order to have a top star in that show at a time when Edge was retiring and Christian was World Champion. Now Smackdown has always been the B show but if you look back on history it has always won the interpromotional battles which means that it is built to be powerful. Most superstars of today have risen to their prime on Smackdown. That wasn't the case with Orton. He managed to do so in Raw and then sent to Smackdown to help the show. In my opinion he has done perfectly. He gave Christian his most entertaining persona since his return, HE was the one to finally put Mark Henry OVER, He showed all of us why Cody Rhodes will be the future of the WWE (whether you want to accept it or not) He gave us reason to believe in Wade Barret and he gave Kane a crucial path back to relevence after being buried by Cena. And you think that is overated?

 

[CuddleBuns84]

The WWE is built to never depend on a big time guy ever again. Stone Cold and the Rock left in 2003. The company still brought in big cash.

Do we really need Orton back? Only if used properly. Right now, WWE needs some mean rugged heels to make the bad guys look again. With Punk's turn, you are going to need another Heel who can make things happen.

Orton plays a good evil. It would make sense, having him interfere in the Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar match. The angry employee getting back at the boss, and aligning him with people who can get him the big dollars. I think the storyline itself would do wonders.

 

[darkseid]

Honestly, I can't wait for Orton to return.

Say what you want about his character, because it has gone quite stale. From an in-ring standpoint however, he's the best worker in the current WWE.

Am I the only one who remembers Orton in 2011? The guy had a near perfect year in terms of wrestling alone. He didn't botch anything, and appeared leagues more composed and professional in the ring than Cena or Punk (who both wrestle with varying degrees of sloppiness).

Orton knows his limitations and because of this, he's completely comfortable in the ring. He elevates everyone he's put in the ring with, to the point where he actually got the best match out of the Great Khali in 2011.

Whenever they put him together with other talented wrestlers, the result is almost always great matches. Orton and Christian may have been beaten to death story-wise, it was still good in the ring. Orton vs. Cody was decent at worst and pretty great at best. Orton vs. Ziggler was basically guaranteed to be the best match on what was otherwise a shit Raw Supershow at the time.


Also, Tyson Kidd likely got pushed because Daniel Bryan got pushed. In a shoot interview, when Bryan was asked which other wrestler he'd like to see more of, Tyson Kidd was his answer. Two weeks later, Tyson Kidd starts getting pushed.

 

[Headman]

When they have to take the WWE champion off of house shows to make up for Orton, then yes I'd say he's missed. They need all the star power they can get at this point.

 

[TheWizard]

Orton can be very entertaining if he's in the right feud/storyline. If he is going to come back and actually do something interesting than of course i want him back. If he's going to come back and do the stuff hes been doin for the past couple months than no i don't.

If he comes back he should feud with Sheamus for the title. The world title needs to feel important again and Orton chasing the title would help. Also Sheamus has yet to have a legit threat to the title.

 

[HBsam31]

I really want to see him come back as the heel he used to be. I am an Orton fan face or heel, but he has really grown stale lately. I think they need him back, and I think the best thing to do would be to turn him mega heel again and feud with Sheamus for the title. It would help Sheamus out a lot to have that feud. Yes, I want Randy back, but only if they change it up a bit with him.