Do TNA fans ever wonder why they watch?

[jroulette]

jroulette,

Okay why would you put Gail, Evan, Ron, and Christian with the TNA rejects ALL Gail, Ron, and Christian started their careers with the WWE and ALL of them including Evan had their big break in WWE!

As for the 'WCW Rejects' so what WWE purchased it and OFF topic.

Most wrestling viewers TODAY was introduced to the WWE. I wasn't talking about the past, but the modern society.

The fact they got their breaks there isn't important, and if you really wanna get into who gave who their big breaks? Killings didn't get his big break until TNA 2002, everything before then he was just Road Dogg's rapping sidekick, and before TNA the WWE never saw Christian as someone they could put in the main events and push, before TNA Gail Kim was known as the girl who won the Womens Title on her first night in the company and just as quickly went to obscurity under the WWE's thumb. Before her run in TNA, the WWE had no interest in using her, and even after seeing what talent she has, they still choose to reduce her role to being nothing more than Eve's tag team partner on Raw.

All breaks aside, from what you said the point that they worked for the WWE, left for one reason or another, went to TNA makes them WWE rejects. By the logic you used all of the people that were mentioned before are TNA rejects. Mick Foley left the WWE on his own accord, Jeff Hardy left the WWE on his own accord, Tomko left the WWE on his own accord, Brian Kendrick, Pope, Kennedy, and Matt Morgan didn't wanna be there anymore.

And again, by your logic it also doesn't matter if the WCW was purchased by the WWE. Those wrestlers were apart of WCW and left for one reason or another and ended up in the WWE. It is in fact on topic when you say TNA is nothing but a bunch of WWE rejects when WWE has plenty of ex-WCW and ex-TNA talent on it's roster. Just because a wrestler worked for the WWE in the past makes them a 'WWE reject' so there's no point in watching TNA. It doesn't, it just means they went elsewhere for an opportunity that wasn't offered by the WWE since they seem to be so anti-talent these days and are rather interested in pushing the same cookie-cut style of wrestling.

And of course the modern era of wrestling fans were introduced to wrestling by the WWE, up until later this year TNA was hardly a blip on the mainstream wrestling radar screen. That doesn't make them free from scrutiny

 

[Star-ratz]

Why I watch TNA, simple...TNA is the lesser of two evils. Yes TNA treat me like an idiot, but WWE treats me like an 8 year old idiot, so TNA wins my viewership because I am an adult and I refuse to be treated like a child!!

 

[Rasha]

No one is bitching aboutt he lack of suprise or thrill. If ur looking at it from a narratvie point of view or a sporting point of view we are still seeing below parr writting / booking.

its not all bad, i am still enjoying the overall shows from both promotions.

Here's the problem, though; when you already know what's coming you're less invested in what you're watching. When Impact goes off the air, you robbed yourself of the chance to have that full adrenaline rush from a surprising event. Much of what made wrestling so fun in the past, and MADE UP FOR A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS, was that thrill you got from seeing big swerve or twist go down.

I'm not saying that reading spoilers exposes bad writing/booking, because obviously they're there one way or the other. But if you watched last night's show and knew that "okay, ECW will attack Abyss and they're not the 'THEY' after all," then you didn't have that "OHHHHHHHHH!!!" moment that the writers/bookers were building toward. Much of what these guys base their planning around is trying to leave you with a good feeling at the end of the night, because that last impression will hopefully dominate the overall. It used to work in the pre-IWC era, but spoilers have gone a long way to damage that facet of the business.

 

[Optimist Prime]

Here's the problem, though; when you already know what's coming you're less invested in what you're watching. When Impact goes off the air, you robbed yourself of the chance to have that full adrenaline rush from a surprising event. Much of what made wrestling so fun in the past, and MADE UP FOR A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS, was that thrill you got from seeing big swerve or twist go down.

I'm not saying that reading spoilers exposes bad writing/booking, because obviously they're there one way or the other. But if you watched last night's show and knew that "okay, ECW will attack Abyss and they're not the 'THEY' after all," then you didn't have that "OHHHHHHHHH!!!" moment that the writers/bookers were building toward. Much of what these guys base their planning around is trying to leave you with a good feeling at the end of the night, because that last impression will hopefully dominate the overall. It used to work in the pre-IWC era, but spoilers have gone a long way to damage that facet of the business.

I definitely agree with you. Spoilers have certainly taken a lot away from wrestling. Who knows how it would have affected the NWO had it been around as immediately as it is today, back in mid-late 90's. That whole chapter in wrestling could have been different.

That being said...it also may have a lot to do with the way the world has changed as well. Back in the late 80's and early 90's when wrestling was starting to blow through the roof - it was very predictable yet still incredibly entertaining. Was it because of the gimmicks each wrestler had...the kind of comic book or cartoon character aspect that took a child outside of the real world and into a imaginary place filled with these characters? Perhaps. But the title belts rarely changed hands, Hulk Hogan basically beat everybody in sight on any occasion, and the bigger the pay-per-view special was...the more likely the "good guy" was going to win. Even on a Saturday Night Main Event - having "The Immortal" Hulk Hogan take on "The Warlord" as a main event...today if that were to happen people would be outraged. But for whatever reason...you were able to have that match back in the day and keep people glued to their seat regardless.

That's why I think it has to do with the world today. The majority of the world is on a "I need results NOW" type kick...mainly due to the internet, cell phones, and other technology that the world has benefited from gathering information - basically immediately. No longer do people feel they have to "learn" certain things because they can just look it up on their cell phone if they don't know the answer. This may directly have an effect on the human attention span in some ways. Especially in something like wrestling...where it's changed so much over the years...and there have been some absolutely brilliant storylines that people may have taken for granted...always trying to compare the next one to a previous one that may just not be able to be compared to.

But of course, I may be wrong...this is just a theory. I don't know any of this for sure...and correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation. But it certainly is a factor for it.

 

[The Bad Guy]

Schizophrenic,

I understood what was going on. I get it. Tommy Dreamer, Stevie Richards, Raven, and Rhino are rounding up the old ECW boys and taking over. I get it. It isn't an overwhelmingly difficult concept. My point was, visually it was a mess. And really what did it accomplish? Boy those ECW guys showed them because they beat up Brian Kendrick and Desmond Wolfe. Mike Tenay had no clue what was going on throughout the whole thing. And Tazz wasn't of much use either. The problem with you TNA fans, which I have tried to become, is that you hate WWE so much that you have become deaf, dumb, and blind. You guys think this ECW angle is so cutting edge (even though WWE did it a decade ago and is in many ways doing it agian with NEXUS) that you don't give two sh*ts about the presentation. What aired last night on the end of Impact looked like something me and my buddies could have filmed in the backyard. This isn't a matter of understanding what's going on, it's a matter of just finally saying, "hey, this is bad." I know the truth hurts, but that doesn't make it not the truth.

As for Brian Kendrick and the Pope, I didn't know the circumstances of why either left WWE to be honest, but let's clear two things up. First, Brian Kendrick is about as useful as the hair on my ass. The day he becomes anything in professional wrestling, might just be the day I stop watching. The fact that he has been in TNA for about 6 months and has done nothing of significance further proves that point. Secondly, I like the Pope. I do think he is an entertaining character. My point is this, everything is bigger in the WWE, including the money. No person in their right mind would leave that to go to TNA unless they had absolutely no future with the company. And let's be honest, the best of the best are in WWE (maybe not the best pure wrestlers, but the best overall performers). If he had risen to the top of the company and then left, I wouldn't be so critical. He didn't rise to the top of the WWE though, not even close. And don't give me any crap about Stone Cold being rejected by WCW and then hitting the jackpot with WWE. That was a once in a lifetime deal and will never happen again. Period.

As for the guy who said reading the spoilers will ruin your experience. That goes without saying and I don't disagree. I wasn't watching the show last night to be surprised by the ending. My wrestling viewing goes something like this, I watch most of RAW though I'll tune out if things don't interest me and I read the spoilers for Smackdown and Impact. If I read something that sounds awesome on one of those two shows, I make a point to watch at least that portion of the show. I don't have time in my life to devote 6 hours to wrestling a week, not to mention another 6 a month on PPV's (most of which I do watch). Just because I know what is going to happen though doesn't mean I still can't be impressed. I mean I'm not expecting the greatest thing since sliced bread, but at least leave me somewhat impressed. What happened last night didn't. It was underwhelming in every sense of the word. I gave it a chance. It's just simply no good.

 

[Schizophrenic]

I understood what was going on. I get it. Tommy Dreamer, Stevie Richards, Raven, and Rhino are rounding up the old ECW boys and taking over. I get it. It isn't an overwhelmingly difficult concept. My point was, visually it was a mess. And really what did it accomplish? Boy those ECW guys showed them because they beat up Brian Kendrick and Desmond Wolfe. Mike Tenay had no clue what was going on throughout the whole thing. And Tazz wasn't of much use either. The problem with you TNA fans, which I have tried to become, is that you hate WWE so much that you have become deaf, dumb, and blind. You guys think this ECW angle is so cutting edge (even though WWE did it a decade ago and is in many ways doing it agian with NEXUS) that you don't give two sh*ts about the presentation. What aired last night on the end of Impact looked like something me and my buddies could have filmed in the backyard. This isn't a matter of understanding what's going on, it's a matter of just finally saying, "hey, this is bad." I know the truth hurts, but that doesn't make it not the truth.

Wow again with your wild accusations. Am I a TNA mark? No. I am a bigger fan of TNA but that doesn't mean I know everything WWE is doing since I watch their shows just as much. Have I said this ECW angle is cutting edge? No. Has ANYONE said this angle is cutting edge? No they have not. Most are in agreement that this may not be the best idea but are gonna enjoy it all the same. Did I think the angle was a clusterfuck? Yeah but that's because it was the first week of the angle and we have yet to know ANYTHING about it. Same with the Nexus angle. You were left going "what the fuck did I just see?" Same here.

As for Brian Kendrick and the Pope, I didn't know the circumstances of why either left WWE to be honest, but let's clear two things up. First, Brian Kendrick is about as useful as the hair on my ass. The day he becomes anything in professional wrestling, might just be the day I stop watching. The fact that he has been in TNA for about 6 months and has done nothing of significance further proves that point. Secondly, I like the Pope. I do think he is an entertaining character. My point is this, everything is bigger in the WWE, including the money. No person in their right mind would leave that to go to TNA unless they had absolutely no future with the company. And let's be honest, the best of the best are in WWE (maybe not the best pure wrestlers, but the best overall performers). If he had risen to the top of the company and then left, I wouldn't be so critical. He didn't rise to the top of the WWE though, not even close. And don't give me any crap about Stone Cold being rejected by WCW and then hitting the jackpot with WWE. That was a once in a lifetime deal and will never happen again. Period.

So you don't like Kendrick. Good for you. However to use him as a sign that TNA signs nothing but bad talent is a crock of shit. I could use the same dumb ass idea for Vladimir Kozlov in WWE. Pope left cause he wasn't being used and realzied that if he really wanted to show what he can do he had to go elsewhere. Guarantee you if TNA let him go WWE would snatch him up then every WWE fan would be singing his praises.

What's funny is you said that the best of the best are in WWE. Well I can name of a roster full of guys who are not there that are still seen as much better by a good portion of the wrestling audience, not just the WWE kiddies. Wolfe, AJ, Pope, Hero, Claudio, Richards, Edwards, Aries, Strong, Delirious, Machine Guns, Steen, are just a small sample. That idea that if you are not in WWE you are nothing to total mind washing bullshit.

 

[Rasha]

As for the guy who said reading the spoilers will ruin your experience. That goes without saying and I don't disagree. I wasn't watching the show last night to be surprised by the ending...

If I read something that sounds awesome on one of those two shows, I make a point to watch at least that portion of the show...

Just because I know what is going to happen though doesn't mean I still can't be impressed.

If you "don't disagree" that your experience is "ruined" by spoilers, then how can you be disappointed when you don't enjoy watching? I get what you're saying about your viewing habits, but such a passive interest in the product tells me you're really not a big fan to begin with. Not saying that as a cutdown or anything, but it'd be like me saying that I only watch replays of football games if they sounded like they had some good highlights. How much of a football fan does that really make me?

 

[Optimist Prime]

If you "don't disagree" that your experience is "ruined" by spoilers, then how can you be disappointed when you don't enjoy watching? I get what you're saying about your viewing habits, but such a passive interest in the product tells me you're really not a big fan to begin with. Not saying that as a cutdown or anything, but it'd be like me saying that I only watch replays of football games if they sounded like they had some good highlights. How much of a football fan does that really make me?

I completely agree. Not putting much effort into actually watching the program and giving it a chance but putting infinitely more effort into signing online, typing in a wrestling website, joining the wrestling website, searching for threads on things you never really gave a chance, and then irrationally bashing the very thing you've openly admitted to barely ever watch (yet alone giving a chance) is just beyond ridiculous.

That's directly linked to the people who say they hate certain kinds of food they've never actually tried. How can you have ANY opinion on the matter at all if you haven't tried it!! You can say "I'm afraid to try it because I didn't like the texture of _____ (insert some other food you didn't like)" So if you came on here saying "I watched TNA for the first time the other day. I only watched it for 20 minutes but I wasn't impressed with what I saw in those 20 minutes. Is it worth giving it another shot and perhaps watching it for a longer period of time next time?" THAT would have made complete sense and been a legit concern that you were able to make and be taken seriously for. Outlandishly signing on, creating a name, and then basically creating an agenda to bash a product you have 20 minutes of experience with just doesn't make any sense at all whatsoever.

Congratulations. You were successful in wasting everybody's time.

 

[The Bad Guy]

Wow again with your wild accusations. Am I a TNA mark? No. I am a bigger fan of TNA but that doesn't mean I know everything WWE is doing since I watch their shows just as much. Have I said this ECW angle is cutting edge? No. Has ANYONE said this angle is cutting edge? No they have not. Most are in agreement that this may not be the best idea but are gonna enjoy it all the same. Did I think the angle was a clusterfuck? Yeah but that's because it was the first week of the angle and we have yet to know ANYTHING about it. Same with the Nexus angle. You were left going "what the fuck did I just see?" Same here.


So you don't like Kendrick. Good for you. However to use him as a sign that TNA signs nothing but bad talent is a crock of shit. I could use the same dumb ass idea for Vladimir Kozlov in WWE. Pope left cause he wasn't being used and realzied that if he really wanted to show what he can do he had to go elsewhere. Guarantee you if TNA let him go WWE would snatch him up then every WWE fan would be singing his praises.

What's funny is you said that the best of the best are in WWE. Well I can name of a roster full of guys who are not there that are still seen as much better by a good portion of the wrestling audience, not just the WWE kiddies. Wolfe, AJ, Pope, Hero, Claudio, Richards, Edwards, Aries, Strong, Delirious, Machine Guns, Steen, are just a small sample. That idea that if you are not in WWE you are nothing to total mind washing bullshit.

All I'm going to say in response to you is that there is a reason the WWE has it's ratings and TNA has it's ratings. I never said there wasn't talent in TNA, or ROH for that matter. What I said was the best of the best is in the WWE. There is no disputing that. It takes more than being a good in-ring performer to survive in this business. AJ Styles is great in the ring, maybe the best out there today, but I wouldn't watch him cut a promo if it were the only thing on TV.

As for NEXUS vs this ECW angle. Yes, I was left wondering what the heck happened in the NEXUS angle, but it wasn't because it was executed poorly like the ECW thing. What took place last night on the last 5-10 minutes of impact was an embarrassment to professional wrestling. It really was. Raven, Dreamer, and Rhino looked awful. The announcers were bad throughout the whole thing. There weren't any significant TNA wrestlers that came out to fight the ECW guys. It was just dumb and pointless. And just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, here comes Dixie Carter.

Now, as for my viewing habits. I watch RAW like I said. I try to watch TNA as much as I can, but full disclosure I do read the spoilers. So, typically I only tune in for the stuff I want to see. If the product becomes better, I'll watch more of it. Until then, I'll keep doing what I'm doing. I don't really watch Smackdown at all, I have better things to do with my life on a Friday night to be perfectly honest. If that makes me not a fan, then I guess I'm not a fan. I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.

 

[Optimist Prime]

All I'm going to say in response to you is that there is a reason the WWE has it's ratings and TNA has it's ratings. I never said there wasn't talent in TNA, or ROH for that matter. What I said was the best of the best is in the WWE. There is no disputing that.

What you're failing to take into consideration is the fact that WWF/E was ridiculously popular in the late 80's through the mid-to-late 90's...and all of those younger kids who grew up during the ascendency of WWE's success...are now having children of their own and could be almost force feeding their children (in some cases) doses of WWE television because "that's what they watched when they were a kid".

It's called brand loyalty in the marketing world. WWE takes great advantages of this.

I'm not saying WWE is total crap (although sometimes I do consider calling it that) but I'm saying that if this product they're putting out there right now came out 20+ years ago against it's old-former self. Early WWF would kick the ever living shit out of neo-WWE from today. No questions asked.

That being said. You can't compare the Roman Empire to the town getting started down the street. Not only are the resources much larger...but there are several other factors (like the one I provided above) that benefit the WWE over TNA.

The ironic part...is that TNA signs guys like Hogan, Flair, Nash, etc. to get some of this "brand loyalty" advantage for themselves...and are shunned for it by people like you.

 

[The Bad Guy]

What you're failing to take into consideration is the fact that WWF/E was ridiculously popular in the late 80's through the mid-to-late 90's...and all of those younger kids who grew up during the ascendency of WWE's success...are now having children of their own and could be almost force feeding their children (in some cases) doses of WWE television because "that's what they watched when they were a kid".

It's called brand loyalty in the marketing world. WWE takes great advantages of this.

I'm not saying WWE is total crap (although sometimes I do consider calling it that) but I'm saying that if this product they're putting out there right now came out 20+ years ago against it's old-former self. Early WWF would kick the ever living shit out of neo-WWE from today. No questions asked.

That being said. You can't compare the Roman Empire to the town getting started down the street. Not only are the resources much larger...but there are several other factors (like the one I provided above) that benefit the WWE over TNA.

The ironic part...is that TNA signs guys like Hogan, Flair, Nash, etc. to get some of this "brand loyalty" advantage for themselves...and are shunned for it by people like you.

I'm not shunning them for that. Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy (though like I said he is really getting out fo shape), Mr. Anderson, and RVD are fine. They can all still work a great match. I have no use for Ric Flair (in the ring anyway), Hulk Hogan (in the ring anyway), Mick Foley (in the ring anyway), Jeff Jarrett, Kevin Nash, Sting, and some of the others though. Those guys were old when WCW folded.

I know all about brand loyalty believe me, but let's not turn professional wrestling into a Pepsi vs. Coke debate here. That's absurd. Unless you have some up-tight, conservative family who doesn't want their kids watching TNA because it isn't PG, I very much doubt that this has even the slightest effect on the ratings of either company. Wrestling fans want a rival to the WWE, but they aren't going to just accept any product that walks through the door to be that rival. The product has to be good, and right now TNA isn't.

The two areas where TNA is hurt the most are the internet and no-compete clauses in contracts. That is the only reason WCW overtook the WWE back in the 90's. You could have a Lex Luger, Scott Hall, or Kevin Nash show up out of nowhere, make a huge splash, and ultimately allow the company to steal ratings. That isn't the case anymore. We now know weeks in advance that guys are in negotiations with these companies and we know they can't make an appearance for 90 days or whatever it is. By the time they make it to TV we have either forgotten about it or simply don't care. So the only way TNA is going to get ahead is by actually putting out a great product. Until then, the WWE is going to be king.

You can write to me a million different ways how great AJ Styles, The Pope, Desmond Wolfe, etc. are, but until the ratings start catching up to WWE, TNA is never going to be considered true competition.

 

[HamsterWrestler]

I think that people just watch because they want a product other than the WWE and TNA is the second most known product(behind WWE). Plus TNA is TV14 while WWE is PG so the people who watch TNA would rather see more violence,blood,and stronger language than the unfunny Santino skits, the dorky language, and the no blood policy with the opponent of the bleeding opponent having to wait so their opponent's blood could get cleaned up.

TNA is aimed toward older people and WWE is kid friendly.

"Think About It"

 

[Schizophrenic]

All I'm going to say in response to you is that there is a reason the WWE has it's ratings and TNA has it's ratings. I never said there wasn't talent in TNA, or ROH for that matter. What I said was the best of the best is in the WWE. There is no disputing that. It takes more than being a good in-ring performer to survive in this business. AJ Styles is great in the ring, maybe the best out there today, but I wouldn't watch him cut a promo if it were the only thing on TV.

If yo really still believe that BS of "is they are not in WWE then they are not better" then you are completley ignorant. Does WWE have great talent? Hell yeah they do but they usually tend to be shoved under the rug so the "movie stars" like Cena can get all his spots in and the other guys who have a hell of alot more talent don't get to showcase. I'll give you a great example. Chris Hero. The guy has probably forgotten more moves than Cena will ever learn. He is huge ALL OVER THE WORLD and cuts the best promos in wrestling today. The man would wipe the floor with Cena in the ring, on the mic and in all around look. Same can be said for guys like Pope and Desmond in TNA. They are better than WWE's resident superman but by your logic they are not as good because they are not in WWE? That's ignorance my friend but like they say, ignorance is bliss. Over 3 million a week prove that.

 

[The Bad Guy]

If yo really still believe that BS of "is they are not in WWE then they are not better" then you are completley ignorant. Does WWE have great talent? Hell yeah they do but they usually tend to be shoved under the rug so the "movie stars" like Cena can get all his spots in and the other guys who have a hell of alot more talent don't get to showcase. I'll give you a great example. Chris Hero. The guy has probably forgotten more moves than Cena will ever learn. He is huge ALL OVER THE WORLD and cuts the best promos in wrestling today. The man would wipe the floor with Cena in the ring, on the mic and in all around look. Same can be said for guys like Pope and Desmond in TNA. They are better than WWE's resident superman but by your logic they are not as good because they are not in WWE? That's ignorance my friend but like they say, ignorance is bliss. Over 3 million a week prove that.

You are misinterpreting my point. I am not saying there aren't individual wrestlers not currently in the WWE that couldn't have some success in the WWE. I'm not saying there aren't some talented in-ring guys that aren't in the WWE. I'm not even saying there aren't some guys who cut good promos that aren't in WWE. I mean the WWE can't sign everybody. What I am saying, is that the overwhelming majority of guys who truly have the ability to carry a company or be the face of a company (meaning they have the look, charisma, mic skills, and in-ring ability) are in the WWE. If Vince McMahon thought that Chris Hero was the next big thing he would sign him tomorrow. Vince is in this to make money and put out the best product possible. And who knows? Maybe Chris Hero will get signed by the WWE some day, but Vince knows what sells and as of right now, he doesn't think it's Chris Hero.

You act like these guys are all great and noble because they are working for ROH or TNA instead of WWE when I am trying to explain to you that if Vince called any of them, they would be gone tomorrow. These guys aren't stupid. They aren't going to wreslte in ROH or TNA for half the money just to please the internet wrestling community. That isn't how life works. Don't believe me? Go watch the Rise and Fall of ECW. Public Enemy, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, Dean Malenko, Tazz, The Dudley Boyz all jumped ship and went after the money. Vince's pockets are a lot deeper than Dixie Carter's. If Vince thinks that the face of the WWE could some day be AJ Styles, The Pope, or Chris Hero, then Vince will get them. If you think otherwise, then you are blind to reality.

These guys aren't wrestling in TNA or ROH because they want to or because the wrestling is better there. They are doing it because that is who will have them. And if they turn down an opportunity to work for more money in the WWE, then they are brain dead.

Now, maybe someday TNA will expand, their budget will increase, and guys will actually wrestle there because it is a solid, respectable organization. Until then, the guys that are there are either old wrestlers that want a lighter schedule, WWE rejects, or guys that are just buying their time in hopes that they catch a big break (ala WWE gives them a call). I'm sorry, but that's the truth. Nobody wants to see TNA become successful more than me. I grew up on the Monday Night Wars, but right now this isn't even close. The booking is bad. I don't see any fresh talent on that roster that I would compare to a HHH, Cena, Randy Orton, etc. in terms of being able to be the face of a company like the WWE. And until I and the rest of the wrestling world do, then it is going to keep drawing a .9 rating.

 

[The Scarred One]

You are misinterpreting my point. I am not saying there aren't individual wrestlers not currently in the WWE that couldn't have some success in the WWE. I'm not saying there aren't some talented in-ring guys that aren't in the WWE. I'm not even saying there aren't some guys who cut good promos that aren't in WWE. I mean the WWE can't sign everybody. What I am saying, is that the overwhelming majority of guys who truly have the ability to carry a company or be the face of a company (meaning they have the look, charisma, mic skills, and in-ring ability) are in the WWE. If Vince McMahon thought that Chris Hero was the next big thing he would sign him tomorrow. Vince is in this to make money and put out the best product possible. And who knows? Maybe Chris Hero will get signed by the WWE some day, but Vince knows what sells and as of right now, he doesn't think it's Chris Hero.

You act like these guys are all great and noble because they are working for ROH or TNA instead of WWE when I am trying to explain to you that if Vince called any of them, they would be gone tomorrow. These guys aren't stupid. They aren't going to wreslte in ROH or TNA for half the money just to please the internet wrestling community. That isn't how life works. Don't believe me? Go watch the Rise and Fall of ECW. Public Enemy, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, Dean Malenko, Tazz, The Dudley Boyz all jumped ship and went after the money. Vince's pockets are a lot deeper than Dixie Carter's. If Vince thinks that the face of the WWE could some day be AJ Styles, The Pope, or Chris Hero, then Vince will get them. If you think otherwise, then you are blind to reality.

These guys aren't wrestling in TNA or ROH because they want to or because the wrestling is better there. They are doing it because that is who will have them. And if they turn down an opportunity to work for more money in the WWE, then they are brain dead.

Now, maybe someday TNA will expand, their budget will increase, and guys will actually wrestle there because it is a solid, respectable organization. Until then, the guys that are there are either old wrestlers that want a lighter schedule, WWE rejects, or guys that are just buying their time in hopes that they catch a big break (ala WWE gives them a call). I'm sorry, but that's the truth. Nobody wants to see TNA become successful more than me. I grew up on the Monday Night Wars, but right now this isn't even close. The booking is bad. I don't see any fresh talent on that roster that I would compare to a HHH, Cena, Randy Orton, etc. in terms of being able to be the face of a company like the WWE. And until I and the rest of the wrestling world do, then it is going to keep drawing a .9 rating.

I agree with you on this one, good sir.

I'd like to see TNA become more successful as it will create more job opportunities for wrestlers wanting to break into the national and international scene. But, when compared to the WWE, TNA is a second-rate promotion in a lot of ways like what you mentioned.

You're right on about the talent TNA currently has. Guys like Kurt Angle and Rob Van Dam, who have nothing terrible to say about WWE, prefer TNA because of the lighter schedule. Others like the Pope and Mr. Anderson were let go by the WWE for one reason or another, so they figured they'd go to the next best available option. In Brian Kendrick's case, he wanted out because he likes to smoke weed and the WWE has a strict drug policy.

But I'm sure the majority of them would jump at the chance to wrestle for the WWE if given so. Many of them have families to think of when they contemplate decisions like that. At the same time, who wouldn't want to wrestle in Madison Square Garden with the whole world watching? TNA won't be doing that any time soon with the crowds they draw. Desmond Wolfe had a deal in place to sign with the company along with Bryan Danielson last year. But somewhere along the way, the deal fell through and Wolfe signed with TNA instead. I'm sure if things had worked out, we'd be seeing Wolfe in WWE right now.

The WWE is the place to be right now because they have more recognition and marketability than TNA. That's not saying that TNA can't improve over time. But if you had a chance to wrestle for a billion-dollar company, travel all over the world and earn a great living for yourself and your family, wouldn't you take it?

 

[jroulette]

The 'best of the best is' in WWE? Since when? If TNA had been around for nearly 50 years now and had the advertising budget & brand recognition that the WWE has today you would be saying that TNA has the best of the best talent.

Vince McMahon and the WWE aren't about having the best talent otherwise they wouldn't hire every pretty little model they can find and would push more than the same 5 guys in the top spots. Does the WWE have more marketable talent? Most of them of them, but that doesn't mean TNA doesn't, and when it comes to pure talent? They have two of the best young talents in the business today and the greatest of all time, and the most in-ring talented roster of any wrestling company out there. Knock AJ Styles' promos all you want, but he's improved a hell of a lot since this heel turn. He is able to stay true to his beliefs and cut good heel promos without dumbing them down for 8 year olds like a certain top superstar in the other company does.

 

[Reddannihilation]

What I am saying, is that the overwhelming majority of guys who truly have the ability to carry a company or be the face of a company (meaning they have the look, charisma, mic skills, and in-ring ability) are in the WWE.

Calling Bullshit right now, the majority of wrestlers currently in the WWE don't have good in-ring skills or good mic skills. At best some of them have one of those characteristics. Case in point; John Morrison, solid in ring competitor, zero personality, The Miz, strong microphone skills, medicore ring technician. Lets not get started in people like Drew Mcintyre who can't talk or wrestle yet are being pushed as the future generation of stars. The WWE selects and pushes wrestlers based on who kisses the most ass. You think it's a coincedence that Evan Bourne jobbed for two years before he had befriended the golden boy to suddenly get a push? Or that Sheamus rise from ECW mid-carder to World champion in the course of 2-3 months didn't come from his relationship with HHH?

If Vince McMahon thought that Chris Hero was the next big thing he would sign him tomorrow. Vince is in this to make money and put out the best product possible.

You got one thing right, he's in it to make money. But if you're telling me that anyone in their right mind thinks The Brady Bunch is relevant today and is a good way to enhance a wrestling product then that person needs to check into a rehab facility.

You act like these guys are all great and noble because they are working for ROH or TNA instead of WWE when I am trying to explain to you that if Vince called any of them, they would be gone tomorrow.

Bullshit, Angle had the option to go back to the WWE and he chose TNA. Styles was offered Evan Bourne's spot of jobber and told them to get fucked, so did Joe. You think Nash couldn't have had HBK and HHH demand Vince re-instate him? Guys like Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Sting, etc. Have no desire to work for the WWE, Styles has gone on record hunderds of times stating that he doesn't believe the WWE respects their wrestlers. Even Bryan Danielson said himself that he spent 10 years on the independents because he could earn just as much money, as he would've in the WWE. He was offered places with them before, he chose not to go.

These guys aren't stupid. They aren't going to wreslte in ROH or TNA for half the money just to please the internet wrestling community. That isn't how life works. Don't believe me? Go watch the Rise and Fall of ECW. Public Enemy, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, Dean Malenko, Tazz, The Dudley Boyz all jumped ship and went after the money. Vince's pockets are a lot deeper than Dixie Carter's. If Vince thinks that the face of the WWE could some day be AJ Styles, The Pope, or Chris Hero, then Vince will get them. If you think otherwise, then you are blind to reality.

So why then did Vince allow Kurt Angle to cross over? Were you unaware that Christian was offered a contract renewal in 2005 from the WWE and he turned them down in favour of TNA. Two-way street, you're blind to believe that every wrestler wants to work for the WWE. So many wrestlers are afraid of working in the WWE due to the backstage politics. If you actually think guys like AJ weren't offered places in the WWE and turned them down then you're down right stupid.

These guys aren't wrestling in TNA or ROH because they want to or because the wrestling is better there. They are doing it because that is who will have them. And if they turn down an opportunity to work for more money in the WWE, then they are brain dead.

As I've already pointed out you don't earn more money in the WWE, you get a higher level of security but as guys like Danielson have mentioned you can earn just as much on the independents. Lots of wrestlers wrestle for passion. Lots of wrestlers remain loyal to the company's who gave them the breaks they wanted. The age old case of STING proves your point wrong, to imply the WWE never wanted Sting would be idiotic.

Now, maybe someday TNA will expand, their budget will increase, and guys will actually wrestle there because it is a solid, respectable organization. Until then, the guys that are there are either old wrestlers that want a lighter schedule, WWE rejects, or guys that are just buying their time in hopes that they catch a big break (ala WWE gives them a call).

Bullshit, Sting is there because he wants to be there. AJ is there because he wants to be there. Joe is there because he wants to be there. I could go on, Kurt Angle, Matt Morgan, The list goes on.

I'm sorry, but that's the truth. Nobody wants to see TNA become successful more than me. I grew up on the Monday Night Wars, but right now this isn't even close. The booking is bad. I don't see any fresh talent on that roster that I would compare to a HHH, Cena, Randy Orton, etc. in terms of being able to be the face of a company like the WWE. And until I and the rest of the wrestling world do, then it is going to keep drawing a .9 rating.

Too bad TNA drew a 1.1 last week. , you say you can't see anyone in TNA you'd compare to Cena or Orton or HHH? Here's a hint, THEY DON'T WANT ANYONE TO BE THAT WAY!!!!!! TNA's whole basis is that they aren't the WWE, they cater to a completely different audience. Unlike John Cena, AJ Styles actually knows how to entertain people older than 7, unlike Randy Orton, D'Angelo Dinero doesn't whinge to management when someone accidentally injures him, unlike HHH, Kurt Angle isn't married to Dixie Carter's daughter and he doesn't demand spotlight.

The whole point of TNA is to cater to a different audience of wrestling fans, TNA offers a more violent, more athletically sound and more sexually appealing content for teens and adults. The WWE caters to children and adults with children. ROH caters to wrestling purists who enjoy in-ring action with little to no storylines.

This may strike you as odd, but a lot of wrestlers wrestle because it's their passion. Not everyone works under the concept that money is the most important thing. And once again I will point towards Sting, a man who the WWE wanted and he turned them down because he didn't feel right about it.

You're right on about the talent TNA currently has. Guys like Kurt Angle and Rob Van Dam, who have nothing terrible to say about WWE, prefer TNA because of the lighter schedule. Others like the Pope and Mr. Anderson were let go by the WWE for one reason or another, so they figured they'd go to the next best available option. In Brian Kendrick's case, he wanted out because he likes to smoke weed and the WWE has a strict drug policy.

Do you have a source on Brian Kendrick? Did it ever occur to you he may have disliked jobbing to Jerry Lawler? Could be that.

But I'm sure the majority of them would jump at the chance to wrestle for the WWE if given so.

Again, AJ was offered a spot and he turned them down, so did Joe, so did a lot of people.

At the same time, who wouldn't want to wrestle in Madison Square Garden with the whole world watching? TNA won't be doing that any time soon with the crowds they draw.

Who'd want to wrestle in front of a crowd of children who 3 years from now won't give two shits about you? Gee mind boggling.

Desmond Wolfe had a deal in place to sign with the company along with Bryan Danielson last year. But somewhere along the way, the deal fell through and Wolfe signed with TNA instead. I'm sure if things had worked out, we'd be seeing Wolfe in WWE right now.

We probably wouldn't as Desmond would've done the 2 finger salute and gotten taken off the air. Desmond's character wouldn't have ever worked in the WWE.

The WWE is the place to be right now because they have more recognition and marketability than TNA. That's not saying that TNA can't improve over time. But if you had a chance to wrestle for a billion-dollar company, travel all over the world and earn a great living for yourself and your family, wouldn't you take it?

Passion for wrestling often dictates what a performer wants to do. Also the WWE have lost a ton of recognition outside of the USA to TNA. Also a lot of wrestlers enjoy a working environment that doesn't involve constant backstabbing and ass kissing. For the final time I'll point to Sting, if you seriously think the WWE never wanted him during the time after WCW closed doors then you're incredibly naieve. Plenty of wrestlers choose not to seek work with the WWE. There's a reason for that.

 

[harrythem]

Calling Bullshit right now, the majority of wrestlers currently in the WWE don't have good in-ring skills or good mic skills. At best some of them have one of those characteristics. Case in point; John Morrison, solid in ring competitor, zero personality, The Miz, strong microphone skills, medicore ring technician. Lets not get started in people like Drew Mcintyre who can't talk or wrestle yet are being pushed as the future generation of stars. The WWE selects and pushes wrestlers based on who kisses the most ass. You think it's a coincedence that Evan Bourne jobbed for two years before he had befriended the golden boy to suddenly get a push? Or that Sheamus rise from ECW mid-carder to World champion in the course of 2-3 months didn't come from his relationship with HHH?

It's the case the wrestling world over that it's not normally what you do, but who you know that gets you to the top. There'll be the few that manage to get there on talent, but they're the exception, not the rule in any company. The WWE guys can do more then they do on TV, but the scripted nature of the WWE deffo holds them back.

You got one thing right, he's in it to make money. But if you're telling me that anyone in their right mind thinks The Brady Bunch is relevant today and is a good way to enhance a wrestling product then that person needs to check into a rehab facility.

I must admit that segment made me cringe something rotten. But, then again, my bird actually sat and watched it, laughed, and then watched the rest of Raw afterwards so, strangely, I guess it can get people to watch. Not proper wrestling fans, granted, but some people.

Bullshit, Angle had the option to go back to the WWE and he chose TNA. Styles was offered Evan Bourne's spot of jobber and told them to get fucked, so did Joe. You think Nash couldn't have had HBK and HHH demand Vince re-instate him? Guys like Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Sting, etc. Have no desire to work for the WWE, Styles has gone on record hunderds of times stating that he doesn't believe the WWE respects their wrestlers. Even Bryan Danielson said himself that he spent 10 years on the independents because he could earn just as much money, as he would've in the WWE. He was offered places with them before, he chose not to go.

Styles was offered a developmental deal which he, quite rightly, turned down. So glad he did that as he would've been sacked instead of given the time to actually develop his mike skills to go with his talent. Joe turned it down as he didn't want to be the Umaga character. Again, I don't blame him for that but, with how he's flip-flopped in TNA so often, you've gotta wonder what he could've done with that character. As for Angle, he was sacked (which he's now admitted) and they stopped the idea of re-hiring him when he went through all that crazy stuff with Raka Khan last year. WWE isn't for everybody but, unless you're supremely talented or charismatic, you'll scrape by a living on the indies, if you're lucky.

Bullshit, Sting is there because he wants to be there. AJ is there because he wants to be there. Joe is there because he wants to be there. I could go on, Kurt Angle, Matt Morgan, The list goes on.

There are also a number of TNA guys that WWE wouldn't touch too. Angel would go back to WWE in a heart-beat, if they'd have him. I wish they would but all his out of the ring crazy stuff wouldn't go well with Linda's senate campaign, which is a shame. A lot of guys, like Sting, RVD, Hardy, Nash, etc are there because they like the more relaxed schedule and the money's good for them. I bet if they were asked to work a full schedule, they'd soon be out the door.

Too bad TNA drew a 1.1 last week. , you say you can't see anyone in TNA you'd compare to Cena or Orton or HHH? Here's a hint, THEY DON'T WANT ANYONE TO BE THAT WAY!!!!!! TNA's whole basis is that they aren't the WWE, they cater to a completely different audience. Unlike John Cena, AJ Styles actually knows how to entertain people older than 7, unlike Randy Orton, D'Angelo Dinero doesn't whinge to management when someone accidentally injures him, unlike HHH, Kurt Angle isn't married to Dixie Carter's daughter and he doesn't demand spotlight.

While they should be applauded for not being like WWE's guys, I'm guessing the point was that TNA doesn't actually have that guy they can put all over everything that makes that difference to them really going huge. From Hogan, to Hart/HBK, to Austin & Rock and then onto Cena, WWE has always had someone that, if their name is there, it draws good ratings and crowds. TNA seemed to be on their way to having that guy with Joe, but he went rather astray for years. Here's hoping that Pope can become that marketing dude that moves them up.

The whole point of TNA is to cater to a different audience of wrestling fans, TNA offers a more violent, more athletically sound and more sexually appealing content for teens and adults. The WWE caters to children and adults with children. ROH caters to wrestling purists who enjoy in-ring action with little to no storylines.

I've never really got the buzz with ROH. I like me some stories with people I don't think I'd have a chance of beating up in them. TNA does cater to a portion of the wrestling audience, it just seems that they book for kids, using adult means. By that I mean the stories can, quite often, make no sense without a compass and map, but their more adult in nature.

This may strike you as odd, but a lot of wrestlers wrestle because it's their passion. Not everyone works under the concept that money is the most important thing. And once again I will point towards Sting, a man who the WWE wanted and he turned them down because he didn't feel right about it.

Sting, for me, is one of wrestling's biggest hypocrites. In an interview with Power Slam back in the early 00s he said he didn't go to WWE as he didn't want to short change the fans with his matches, yet he followed that up with the WWA tours without any training or ring-time from when WCW closed. He said he wouldn't join WWE because of it's morally objectionable content yet, surely that's what TNA's content is now (not that that's a bad thing). I think when Sting's TNA contract is up, if WWE offered him the right deal, he'd sign in a heart-beat to be in the Hall Of Fame, and quite rightly as he deserves to be there, even if I don't like him.

Do you have a source on Brian Kendrick? Did it ever occur to you he may have disliked jobbing to Jerry Lawler? Could be that.

Actually, in an interview with Power Slam, he said he liked to smoke because he knew Vince didn't like it and he enjoyed pissing him off. I still think Kendrick's mad to piss away the WWE as he's not going to make the money he was making there in TNA, and he's still not being used to the best of his abilities. Chalk him up as someone wasting his own chances.

Who'd want to wrestle in front of a crowd of children who 3 years from now won't give two shits about you? Gee mind boggling.

It was enough to get Ultimo Dragon to piss away a year of his career. The TNA talent were amazed to work in front of 8000 people at Wembley Arena, could you imagine how much they'd love a WWE arena show crowd? They might not care about them in a few years but, the memories of that night would live with you forever. Case in point, Koko B Ware and Wrestlemania 3

We probably wouldn't as Desmond would've done the 2 finger salute and gotten taken off the air. Desmond's character wouldn't have ever worked in the WWE.

Wolfe's one of those that, like CM Punk, is versatile enough that he would've got over whatever they did with him. It'd seem weird but, I have faith he could do it, after learning to work in FCW for 6 months first, obviously!

Passion for wrestling often dictates what a performer wants to do. Also the WWE have lost a ton of recognition outside of the USA to TNA. Also a lot of wrestlers enjoy a working environment that doesn't involve constant backstabbing and ass kissing. For the final time I'll point to Sting, if you seriously think the WWE never wanted him during the time after WCW closed doors then you're incredibly naieve. Plenty of wrestlers choose not to seek work with the WWE. There's a reason for that.

Now that I deffo agree with. There are some wrestlers in TNA that have the talent and passion for wrestling. It also leads to my biggest frustration with TNA, because the booking doesn't always do the talent justice. That's the main reason Christian went back to WWE. I think when TNA have a booker who can lead the ship in a sure direction and basically say bollocks to anyone that doesn't agree with it, then they could shut up all us that moan about them, and lead us back to having 2 major Western wrestling companies again!

 

[snoopy]

First off, I don't see how the WWE putting out bad shows/segments gives TNA the excuse to do just as bad if not worse.

Back to the question.
The last segment (or second to last) on TNA looked like it was going to be great. They had Flair, Aj, Wolfe & Kaz in the ring and then Wolfe flipped out on Flair only to be interrupted by Abyss who scared everyone away. That made me change the channel so yea, I do wonder why I watch TNA sometimes.

How are you thinking, because realisticly if a 6foot8, 350 pound guy wearing a mask and carring a 2x4 with nails comes at you are you just going to stand there?!

Sometimes I think some of you guys don't use your brains and turn around and blame TNA for lack of logic when things like that are perfectly logical!

 

[JackBurton]

Aaaaaaaaand I win a watch!

I was the first poster in this thread after the op. I stated there and then that this thread would descend into a silly little tribal running battle. Im starting to become more and more disillusioned with wrestling fans these days. "My dad could beat up your dad". Is that what we've been reduced to? Squabbling over who has the most toys? Someone will try and tell me that "everyone has different opinions" - horseshit - this has nothing to do with differing opinions. This is simply a case of people picking sides in a fight that no-one knows where it started or why its being fought. Too many fans on both sides of the divide (that's what its became) choose their facts or points based on where their allegiance lies and conveniently forget the facts or points that don't.

Like I said in my original post; I'm a wrestling fan. I'll watch just about anything with wrestling in the title. I'm not saying because I don't engage in these stupid squabbles that somehow I am better than those that do. What I am saying is; Its fucking folly. Unless we can put this shit aside and be fair and objective no major promotion is EVER going to take anything we say seriously.

You are more than entitled to think that AJ Styles is a better worker than John Cena, but we all know the majority of the time these discussions are not based on work rate - rather, they are based on what company, or side, you have chosen to champion.

Those who don't fall into this category know who you are, and so do I, so there is no need for you to reply to me telling me this doesn't apply to you. I already know who I'm talking about and so do they.

 

[Reddannihilation]

Sting, for me, is one of wrestling's biggest hypocrites. In an interview with Power Slam back in the early 00s he said he didn't go to WWE as he didn't want to short change the fans with his matches, yet he followed that up with the WWA tours without any training or ring-time from when WCW closed. He said he wouldn't join WWE because of it's morally objectionable content yet, surely that's what TNA's content is now (not that that's a bad thing). I think when Sting's TNA contract is up, if WWE offered him the right deal, he'd sign in a heart-beat to be in the Hall Of Fame, and quite rightly as he deserves to be there, even if I don't like him.

I know the interview, keep in mind that was 2002-2003 when HHH was raping corpses, McMahon was beating up Stephanie and having an affair with Sable. That's the content Sting was talking about. TNA might have sex appeal and violent matches but it's never had stupid shit like giving birth to a hand and necrophilia.

 

[Y2Jericho]

I've never been too big a TNA fan, the only reason I ever watch (very, very rarely) it is just to see wrestlers who aren't in the WWE anymore like Angle and RVD.

 

[Optimist Prime]

I'm not shunning them for that. Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy (though like I said he is really getting out fo shape), Mr. Anderson, and RVD are fine. They can all still work a great match. I have no use for Ric Flair (in the ring anyway), Hulk Hogan (in the ring anyway), Mick Foley (in the ring anyway), Jeff Jarrett, Kevin Nash, Sting, and some of the others though. Those guys were old when WCW folded.

That's your opinion though. Personally, one of the only reasons I gave TNA a shot is because of the Hulk Hogan's, Sting's, Kevin Nash's, Ric Flair's, etc. I grew up watching these guys and it's part of the nostalgia that wrestling holds dear to many people. Yes, wrestling is "fake" so it's not as bad as if they were in MMA or greco-roman style wrestling anyway. I agree with you that Hogan and Flair should be entirely out of the ring...although I'll give Flair credit because he can still hold his own in there for a man in his 60's. Hogan should never wrestle again...and that's hard for me to say because I think he is and always will be the greatest professional wrestler of all time. Maybe he wasn't the best in-ring talent...maybe he wasn't the greatest on the mic. But my lord, he was an entertainer. He's the only wrestler who may go down as the greatest hero and greatest villain...the business has ever seen. And that takes something right there. But anyway, Sting, Nash, Jarrett, etc. can still wrestle. Whether they're in their 30's, 40's or 50's it shouldn't matter as long as they're still able to hold their own and entertain us. Once you start letting arbitrary and irrational thoughts take over your opinions on what is suppose to be fun and entertaining - you're cheating yourself from enjoying what's in front of you. Those guys are still entertaining...and TNA needs them right now because while the older guys may lack the in-ring ability they may have once had - they compliment the lack of personality the younger guys (with in-ring ability) currently have - and set an example for them which they could perhaps learn from.

I know all about brand loyalty believe me, but let's not turn professional wrestling into a Pepsi vs. Coke debate here. That's absurd. Unless you have some up-tight, conservative family who doesn't want their kids watching TNA because it isn't PG, I very much doubt that this has even the slightest effect on the ratings of either company. Wrestling fans want a rival to the WWE, but they aren't going to just accept any product that walks through the door to be that rival. The product has to be good, and right now TNA isn't.

Again, this is your opinion. And also, you're not giving TNA a chance. You, yourself, said you watched TNA for 20 minutes only and made your decision based on that. And to be honest, even if you watched longer you probably would have come to a similar conclusion...although they're all small sample sizes. WWE has been around for decades. WCW took quite a while (and money) to actually compete with WWE. TNA is trying to do the same thing with a fraction of the budget. Give them some credit and time. Assuming that they should be coming out with the same product billion dollar corporations like WWE and WCW had is just not fair right now. TNA has been out for only 8 years with a significantly small budget...and they have a Spike TV deal, pay-per-view programs, and a shitload of talent considering. That's something else right there. They're doing what they can with what they have. Ripping them apart because they don't put out the same product the billionaires do is just unnecessary because it's not likely.

The two areas where TNA is hurt the most are the internet and no-compete clauses in contracts. That is the only reason WCW overtook the WWE back in the 90's. You could have a Lex Luger, Scott Hall, or Kevin Nash show up out of nowhere, make a huge splash, and ultimately allow the company to steal ratings. That isn't the case anymore. We now know weeks in advance that guys are in negotiations with these companies and we know they can't make an appearance for 90 days or whatever it is. By the time they make it to TV we have either forgotten about it or simply don't care. So the only way TNA is going to get ahead is by actually putting out a great product. Until then, the WWE is going to be king.

I agree with you here. But the whole reason Vince McMahon is able to have that "no compete clause" is because he basically had no competition...so if a wrestler wanted to go maintstream...he had to sign literally whatever Vince said or else he'd be back in the amateur circuit (so to speak). Once TNA begins to build and get more recognition...and perhaps starts actually competing with Vince McMahon - that no compete clause will be more of a burden for Vince than an advantage. Had Vince had a no compete clause in the 90's against WCW...it would have backfired so badly as wrestlers would just go sign with an equally as big (if not bigger) WCW instead without the nonsense. As for the internet, nobody is holding you down and forcing you to look at the spoilers. If you want to remain surprised then simply don't click on the links or avoid the website in its entirety. There are ways around it.

You can write to me a million different ways how great AJ Styles, The Pope, Desmond Wolfe, etc. are, but until the ratings start catching up to WWE, TNA is never going to be considered true competition.

The only way the ratings are going to go up is if people like you give it a chance. Watching 20 minutes of a show and immediately assuming that a significantly lower budget product is going to turn into a WWE or a mid-to-late 90's WCW in it's first 8 years of existence is simply not fair and basically impossible.

 

[rondiesel2005]

That's your opinion though. Personally, one of the only reasons I gave TNA a shot is because of the Hulk Hogan's, Sting's, Kevin Nash's, Ric Flair's, etc. I grew up watching these guys and it's part of the nostalgia that wrestling holds dear to many people. Yes, wrestling is "fake" so it's not as bad as if they were in MMA or greco-roman style wrestling anyway. I agree with you that Hogan and Flair should be entirely out of the ring...although I'll give Flair credit because he can still hold his own in there for a man in his 60's. Hogan should never wrestle again...and that's hard for me to say because I think he is and always will be the greatest professional wrestler of all time. Maybe he wasn't the best in-ring talent...maybe he wasn't the greatest on the mic. But my lord, he was an entertainer. He's the only wrestler who may go down as the greatest hero and greatest villain...the business has ever seen. And that takes something right there. But anyway, Sting, Nash, Jarrett, etc. can still wrestle. Whether they're in their 30's, 40's or 50's it shouldn't matter as long as they're still able to hold their own and entertain us. Once you start letting arbitrary and irrational thoughts take over your opinions on what is suppose to be fun and entertaining - you're cheating yourself from enjoying what's in front of you. Those guys are still entertaining...and TNA needs them right now because while the older guys may lack the in-ring ability they may have once had - they compliment the lack of personality the younger guys (with in-ring ability) currently have - and set an example for them which they could perhaps learn from.



Again, this is your opinion. And also, you're not giving TNA a chance. You, yourself, said you watched TNA for 20 minutes only and made your decision based on that. And to be honest, even if you watched longer you probably would have come to a similar conclusion...although they're all small sample sizes. WWE has been around for decades. WCW took quite a while (and money) to actually compete with WWE. TNA is trying to do the same thing with a fraction of the budget. Give them some credit and time. Assuming that they should be coming out with the same product billion dollar corporations like WWE and WCW had is just not fair right now. TNA has been out for only 8 years with a significantly small budget...and they have a Spike TV deal, pay-per-view programs, and a shitload of talent considering. That's something else right there. They're doing what they can with what they have. Ripping them apart because they don't put out the same product the billionaires do is just unnecessary because it's not likely.



I agree with you here. But the whole reason Vince McMahon is able to have that "no compete clause" is because he basically had no competition...so if a wrestler wanted to go maintstream...he had to sign literally whatever Vince said or else he'd be back in the amateur circuit (so to speak). Once TNA begins to build and get more recognition...and perhaps starts actually competing with Vince McMahon - that no compete clause will be more of a burden for Vince than an advantage. Had Vince had a no compete clause in the 90's against WCW...it would have backfired so badly as wrestlers would just go sign with an equally as big (if not bigger) WCW instead without the nonsense. As for the internet, nobody is holding you down and forcing you to look at the spoilers. If you want to remain surprised then simply don't click on the links or avoid the website in its entirety. There are ways around it.



The only way the ratings are going to go up is if people like you give it a chance. Watching 20 minutes of a show and immediately assuming that a significantly lower budget product is going to turn into a WWE or a mid-to-late 90's WCW in it's first 8 years of existence is simply not fair and basically impossible.

You make good points, the only reason i got into TNA was because of guys like Daniel, joe and AJ Styles. You know what i think TNA probably did had a lot of money before, maybe few years ago and lately they look like they been having problems with money and change up the budget. I still watch TNA, but there are times when they a storyline, sometimes it doesn't make sense when i watch it you know.. and honestly people dont want to see a guy like Orlando Jordon put lotion on himself in front of national television, who wants to see that??? Now with Hogan, i don't think he should be wrestling at all, i mean its not like he gonna lose to anybody any time soon or never will..its like if you put Hogan in a match with Abyss we all probably know Hogan gonna win, but the fans are going to be like yeah ok Hogan is going to win...I can't speak on everybody, but i think there are fans on here who gives it a chance for couple months they started to dislike TNA, like they ask a question where is this going seriously?? plus they will only watch tna just to watch their favorite wrestlers and that's all, don't care about the other wrestlers

 

[Optimist Prime]

You make good points, the only reason i got into TNA was because of guys like Daniel, joe and AJ Styles. You know what i think TNA probably did had a lot of money before, maybe few years ago and lately they look like they been having problems with money and change up the budget. I still watch TNA, but there are times when they a storyline, sometimes it doesn't make sense when i watch it you know.. and honestly people dont want to see a guy like Orlando Jordon put lotion on himself in front of national television, who wants to see that??? Now with Hogan, i don't think he should be wrestling at all, i mean its not like he gonna lose to anybody any time soon or never will..its like if you put Hogan in a match with Abyss we all probably know Hogan gonna win, but the fans are going to be like yeah ok Hogan is going to win...I can't speak on everybody, but i think there are fans on here who gives it a chance for couple months they started to dislike TNA, like they ask a question where is this going seriously?? plus they will only watch tna just to watch their favorite wrestlers and that's all, don't care about the other wrestlers

First of all invest in this.

Secondly, your point of view seems to be the general consensus amongst most viewers. Mainly the storylines jumping all over the place part. It seems to be a sign of panic and/or the inability for the people in the back to work together. As the old adage goes - "too many cooks spoil the pot". This may be a direct result of a group of people who once never got along...now agreeing with everything each other is saying in order to "patch things up" or avoid creating a stir in the back. While forgiving one another and tweeting nice things about the others is certainly good...it may create an atmosphere where disagreements are avoided in order to stay on good terms with one another. I don't see any other way that some of these terrible ideas are coming out there.

Another thing could be that they come up with something...and then another person comes up with something better that they want to use...that totally contradicts or makes the previous angle not make sense...or become entirely unnecessary all together. Who knows? I'm only making assumptions.

They do have the talent there though. And they also have the minds behind the scenes necessary to put out a good product. The results just aren't there entirely yet. But I have a feeling this "they" and "jarrett-hogan-nash-sting" angle may turn into something good. I'm crossing my fingers though. As I've said before...they need a large storyline that can last a little while to buy them some time to think of some other storylines for the future. That is another thing I feel they are lacking. Time. Storylines seem to be rushed for the most part...and it shows in their quality from time to time.

As for Orlando Jordan putting lotion on himself...I don't think anybody wants to see that at all. Put we live in an age where you can sue people for allowing females to do so on television but restricting males...although there may be some amendment or something stating otherwise. I know there is some clause (like places like Hooters) use where they deny certain people for not fitting into their marketing scheme.