CM Punk wants to keep the rights to his name.

[Aotearoa (Bushwacker)]

Incidentally, does anybody have any figures for what wrestlers are earning nowadays. I could only find stats from like 6 years ago and these would have increased quite a bit by now I am sure. Anyway i found these interesting.....

Below is the World Wrestling Entertainment talent roster payroll that was taken from October of 2004 until February of 2006. The shown dollar amount beside each wrestler is the grand total that they earned from World Wrestling Entertainment in a one year period (downside guarantees, bonuses, and merchandise shares). Some wrestler's were given special privileges and bonuses in their contracts which can also be seen beside their total pay. All wrestler's contracts begin and end at different months of the year, there for each shown amount is what that particular wrestler earned in a 365 day time period between October 2004 and February 2006 (or however long they have been with the company). All dollar amounts were rounded up/down (Example: $244,766 would be $245,000)

- Ashley Massaro: $131,000
- Batista: $813,000 (First class flight tickets paid for every week)
- Big Show: $1,000,000 (Base salary)
- Bob Holly: $217,000
- Booker T: $375,000
- Candice Michelle: $64,000
- Carlito: $319,000
- Chavo Guerrero: $206,000
- Chris Benoit: $488,000 (First class flight tickets paid for every week)
- Chris Masters: $253,000
- Christian - $396,000
- Danny Basham: $130,000
- Doug Basham: $126,000
- Eddie Guerrero: $372,000
- Edge: $704,000
- Eugene: $189,000
- Funaki: $124,000
- Gene Snitsky: $292,000
- Gregory Helms: $277,000
- John Cena: $1,743,000 (First class flight tickets, hotel accommodations, and ground transportation paid for every week)
- John Layfield: $786,000 (Five star hotel accommodations paid for every week)
- Jerry Lawler: $204,000 (First class flight tickets, hotel accommodations, and ground transportation paid for every week)
- Jillian Hall: $52,000
- Joey Mercury: $134,000
- Johnny Nitro: $143,000
- Jonathan Coachman: $175,000
- Kane: $ 851,000 (First class flight tickets paid for every week)
- Ken Kennedy: $133,000
- Kid Kash: $62,000
- Kurt Angle: $1,023,000 (First class flight tickets paid for every week)
- Lance Cade: $118,000
- Lilian Garcia: $90,000
- Lita: $286,000 (Mostly downside paid due to lack of wrestling)
- Maria: $41,000
- Mark Henry: $300,000 (Base pay)
- Matt Hardy: $322,000 (Missed over $70,000 of pay due to firing)
- Matt Striker: $43,000
- Melina: $155,000
- Mickie James: $72,000
- Nunzio: $186,000
- Orlando Jordan: $145,000
- Paul London: $177,000
- Psicosis: $122,000
- Randy Orton: $711,000 (First class flight tickets paid for every week)
- Rene Dupree: $289,000
- Rey Mysterio: $414,000
- Ric Flair: $508,000 (First class flight tickets paid for every week)
- Rob Conway: $186,000
- Rob Van Dam: $220,000 (Only received downside and royalties due to injury)
- Rosey: $105,000
- Shawn Michaels: $1,045,000 (First class flight tickets, hotel accommodations, and ground transportation paid for every week)
- Shelton Benjamin: $366,000
- Simon Dean: $132,000
- Stacy Keibler: $178,000 (Only downside paid during absence)
- Steven Richards: $94,000
- Torrie Wilson: $260,000
- Trevor Murdoch: $48,000
- Triple H: $2,013,000 (Allowed the personal use of company jet (10) times per year. First class flight tickets, hotel accommodations, and ground transportation paid for every week)
- Trish Stratus: $618,000 (Receives 20% of all Trish Stratus merchandise sold)
- Tyson Tomko: $127,000
- Undertaker: $1,811,000 (First class flight tickets, hotel accommodations, and ground transportation paid for every week)
- Val Venis: $210,000
- Victoria: $275,000
- Viscera: $130,000
- William Regal: $225,000

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

Incidentally, does anybody have any figures for what wrestlers are earning nowadays. I could only find stats from like 6 years ago and these would have increased quite a bit by now I am sure. Anyway i found these interesting.....

Below is the World Wrestling Entertainment talent roster payroll that was taken from October of 2004 until February of 2006. The shown dollar amount beside each wrestler is the grand total that they earned from World Wrestling Entertainment in a one year period (downside guarantees, bonuses, and merchandise shares). Some wrestler's were given special privileges and bonuses in their contracts which can also be seen beside their total pay. All wrestler's contracts begin and end at different months of the year, there for each shown amount is what that particular wrestler earned in a 365 day time period between October 2004 and February 2006 (or however long they have been with the company). All dollar amounts were rounded up/down (Example: $244,766 would be $245,000)

- Ashley Massaro: $131,000
- Batista: $813,000 (First class flight tickets paid for every week)
- Big Show: $1,000,000 (Base salary)
- Bob Holly: $217,000
- Booker T: $375,000
- Candice Michelle: $64,000
- Carlito: $319,000
- Chavo Guerrero: $206,000
- Chris Benoit: $488,000 (First class flight tickets paid for every week)
- Chris Masters: $253,000
- Christian - $396,000
- Danny Basham: $130,000
- Doug Basham: $126,000
- Eddie Guerrero: $372,000
- Edge: $704,000
- Eugene: $189,000
- Funaki: $124,000
- Gene Snitsky: $292,000
- Gregory Helms: $277,000
- John Cena: $1,743,000 (First class flight tickets, hotel accommodations, and ground transportation paid for every week)
- John Layfield: $786,000 (Five star hotel accommodations paid for every week)
- Jerry Lawler: $204,000 (First class flight tickets, hotel accommodations, and ground transportation paid for every week)
- Jillian Hall: $52,000
- Joey Mercury: $134,000
- Johnny Nitro: $143,000
- Jonathan Coachman: $175,000
- Kane: $ 851,000 (First class flight tickets paid for every week)
- Ken Kennedy: $133,000
- Kid Kash: $62,000
- Kurt Angle: $1,023,000 (First class flight tickets paid for every week)
- Lance Cade: $118,000
- Lilian Garcia: $90,000
- Lita: $286,000 (Mostly downside paid due to lack of wrestling)
- Maria: $41,000
- Mark Henry: $300,000 (Base pay)
- Matt Hardy: $322,000 (Missed over $70,000 of pay due to firing)
- Matt Striker: $43,000
- Melina: $155,000
- Mickie James: $72,000
- Nunzio: $186,000
- Orlando Jordan: $145,000
- Paul London: $177,000
- Psicosis: $122,000
- Randy Orton: $711,000 (First class flight tickets paid for every week)
- Rene Dupree: $289,000
- Rey Mysterio: $414,000
- Ric Flair: $508,000 (First class flight tickets paid for every week)
- Rob Conway: $186,000
- Rob Van Dam: $220,000 (Only received downside and royalties due to injury)
- Rosey: $105,000
- Shawn Michaels: $1,045,000 (First class flight tickets, hotel accommodations, and ground transportation paid for every week)
- Shelton Benjamin: $366,000
- Simon Dean: $132,000
- Stacy Keibler: $178,000 (Only downside paid during absence)
- Steven Richards: $94,000
- Torrie Wilson: $260,000
- Trevor Murdoch: $48,000
- Triple H: $2,013,000 (Allowed the personal use of company jet (10) times per year. First class flight tickets, hotel accommodations, and ground transportation paid for every week)
- Trish Stratus: $618,000 (Receives 20% of all Trish Stratus merchandise sold)
- Tyson Tomko: $127,000
- Undertaker: $1,811,000 (First class flight tickets, hotel accommodations, and ground transportation paid for every week)
- Val Venis: $210,000
- Victoria: $275,000
- Viscera: $130,000
- William Regal: $225,000

And how does this matter in the topic we are talking about?

Anyways, back on topic. Punk has every right to his name, this reminds me of the Dudley boys/Team-3D it pissed me off then (still does) and if Punk looses this battle i will be pissed beyond belief.

 

[Lucid]

The way I see it is this. If CM Punk didn't make his name on his talent and his character he never would be employed by WWE. WWE has always offered contracts to the headliners of other promotions, this is no secret nor is it bad business. It may be unethical, but that's the state of competition in business sometimes.
CM Punk and WWE signed their original contract knowing the particulars on each side. WWE knew his talent, they signed him for it and paid him. If owning the rights to the name were conditional to WWE employment then, it should have been in the contract.
Since, it appears, it was not then it should not be any different today. Sure, WWE put their promotional machine to work for Punk, that was their end of the contract! And Punk was compensated for his work. That was his end. This is no different today than it was then. I cannot see it any other way.

 

[Aotearoa (Bushwacker)]

And how does this matter in the topic we are talking about?

Anyways, back on topic. Punk has every right to his name, this reminds me of the Dudley boys/Team-3D it pissed me off then (still does) and if Punk looses this battle i will be pissed beyond belief.

Just saying that wrestlers earn a lot of money. When does it go from protecting yourself and good business sense to being just purely greedy.
I am in know way saying Punk does not deserve his money or does not even deserve to hold out for more, but I would be interested to know what the offer was.

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

The way I see it is this. If CM Punk didn't make his name on his talent and his character he never would be employed by WWE. WWE has always offered contracts to the headliners of other promotions, this is no secret nor is it bad business. It may be unethical, but that's the state of competition in business sometimes.
CM Punk and WWE signed their original contract knowing the particulars on each side. WWE knew his talent, they signed him for it and paid him. If owning the rights to the name were conditional to WWE employment then, it should have been in the contract.
Since, it appears, it was not then it should not be any different today. Sure, WWE put their promotional machine to work for Punk, that was their end of the contract! And Punk was compensated for his work. That was his end. This is no different today than it was then. I cannot see it any other way.

Agree. If it was a WWE created name(i.e HHH, Edge, Undertaker, Kane etc. ), then punk would be screwed. But since it wasn't WWE is screwed, the thing thats is funny about this is that since Vince is such a good buisnessman why didn't he think about this before when he signed punk?

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

Just saying that wrestlers earn a lot of money. When does it go from protecting yourself and good business sense to being just purely greedy.
I am in know way saying Punk does not deserve his money or does not even deserve to hold out for more, but I would be interested to know what the offer was.

It must have been low, because for all we know neither side has conceided.

 

[StylezClash3:16]

I think the guy is overrated in the ring, but there is no reason they shouldn't let him get away with this. The man is very charismatic and could brake a lot of stereotypes if he were on of the top faces. I say let the man keep the rights to CM Punk. We all know they're going to chew him up and spit him out when they're done with him.

 

[ratmjoe]

It's common sense and good logic for Punk NOT to agree to the new contract. He is who he is because of HIM. He came up with his character and name and definatly has the right to keep it by all means necessary, even if it means leaving the WWE. Just hope they realize it before it's too late.

 

[sTyLnK]

I think Vince and the WWE will sign him without getting the rights to his name. Hard to imagine Vince letting Punk go over a name he never created.

 

[93178]

I think in a way Punk shouldn't give up his name. He did create it and has been using it for years. WWE knew this when they hired him, and for whatever reason when they first brought him up they didn't change his name. Maybe it was because he was brought up as a test like a lot of other wrestlers are and WWE let him keep his name during the test and then if he was going to stay they would take him off TV for a few months and bring him back under a new name. If that was the case and Puck ended up picking up a lot faster then WWE expected so they chose not to rebrand him under a new name and then it got to late for them to do it now.

If he somehow does end up singing a new contract without giving up the rights to his name, I could easily see WWE just changing his name on him and the best/easiest way of doing it without it seeming really weird would be for them to just come up with a new name for what CM stands for, trademark that and then just start calling him by that on TV.

Everyone knows by now WWE likes to own everything about their talent so that if/when they are gone WWE can keep that name for DVDs or w/e they end up selling with reference to that wrestler and now with people going to TNA from WWE more they don't want them to be able to do so under their WWE name.

It makes sense for WWE to want to own the CM Punk name, but it also makes sense for Phillip Brooks to want to keep the CM Punk name.

I could see WWE allowing him to own the CM Punk name and give him a new contract anyways, but the problem I see what that (and what WWE probably thinks of also) is if you allow Brooks to keep his indie name and use it in WWE without giving up the rights to the name, new talent coming up from the inidies may look at this and they may also want to keep their indie names without giving them up.

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

I think Vince and the WWE will sign him without getting the rights to his name. Hard to imagine Vince letting Punk go over a name he never created.

And Yet there is no word of an agreement. Whats taking so long? I would think that this would have been settle by now. Anyways Punk should keep his name until he dies, its part of his identity.

 

[King Blitzkonic]

Have I read this right, WWe will not consent to renewing his contract unless he signs over the name that he has worked his ass off to establish? Punk is one of their most over stars, whether they like it or not, and his tenure means he can make a very hansom living all across the world at independent bookings, in the Orient, hell - he might even fancy the easy life in TNA. I'd tell them to stick it - they're not exactly blessed with bankable stars if WM is anything to go by and he's been misused most of his tenure there anyway.

I definitely agree that Punk should stay firm and make the money elsewhere if need be. Once again, great minds think alike.

There IS one factor, however, that may cause him to sign over the trademark: Beth Phoenix. If she hasn't signed over HER name trademark, then she'll be in the same position when her contract comes up. Not to mention that you know full well Vince will make Beth's life a living hell because of Punk. Remember the embarrassment Owen Hart got after Bret, Bulldog, and Anvil all went to WCW? Or more recently, the treatment Matt Hardy got after Jeff left WWE? Or maybe the separations of Lashley/Krystal Marshall? Basically, Vince (or his underlings) will see to it that someone pays for Vince not getting his way.

 

[The Brain]

There are so many posts in here I’d like to quote but I’m not going to bother with all that. First of all despite CM Punk coming up with his own name and being allowed to keep it in WWE, it was WWE that made Punk a star. I mean an actual star that is known by millions of people who pulls in big pay checks. I’m sure Punk’s loyal fans would argue he made himself a star before he came to WWE. Those people would be wrong. If not for WWE he would only be a star to people who follow wrestling on the internet. He would be headlining shows in the local YMCA in front of 200 people and living from inconsistent paycheck to inconsistent paycheck. Sure he’d have notoriety among the IWC, but try paying the rent with that. There’s no doubt Punk needs WWE more than WWE needs Punk.

To those who think WWE is doing this to embarrass Punk if he leaves or, you need to wake up. WWE wants the legal rights to his name for any future projects. They want to be able to release a CM Punk DVD, put CM Punk in a video game, make a CM Punk action figure, etc. It has nothing to do with wanting to embarrass him by putting his gimmick on a midget or something. You’re right about one thing though. WWE wouldn’t want him to use the name in TNA. Not because all of a sudden TNA would become a threat but because they wouldn’t want a competing company to profit off a name they made famous.

It doesn’t surprise me that so many people blindly support their favorite wrestler in a battle with the evil corporation, the same evil corporation that we all enjoy watching and wouldn’t be here without by the way. Let’s say CM Punk gets his wish. You can all consider it some sort of victory for the little guy. Then ten years from now you can all bitch about not getting your CM Punk DVD.

I suppose if he really wants it the ball is in Punk’s court. If he doesn’t resign and gives up the rights to his name WWE will be left without both CM Punk the wrestler and the CM Punk name. Meanwhile WWE will continue on as a multimillion dollar company and Punk will go back to inconsistent mediocrity.

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

I definitely agree that Punk should stay firm and make the money elsewhere if need be. Once again, great minds think alike.

There IS one factor, however, that may cause him to sign over the trademark: Beth Phoenix. If she hasn't signed over HER name trademark, then she'll be in the same position when her contract comes up. Not to mention that you know full well Vince will make Beth's life a living hell because of Punk. Remember the embarrassment Owen Hart got after Bret, Bulldog, and Anvil all went to WCW? Or more recently, the treatment Matt Hardy got after Jeff left WWE? Or maybe the separations of Lashley/Krystal Marshall? Basically, Vince (or his underlings) will see to it that someone pays for Vince not getting his way.

Maybe, but still Punk ownes his name and should he leave Beth Phoenix could leave with him.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

Before we are too hard on Punk consider this:

WWE is doing what they can to make money. Vince will sweet talk and say anything to get talent to give him what he wants for the absolute least amount of money. The truth is Punk came up with the name, and makes the name valuable. His work, his talent is what makes the name valuable. WWE wants him to give up his rights to the name so they can profit from the usage of the name without having to give him a red cent. Why do you think Hogan refused to relinquish his rights to his name ? Because he knows it's a bullshit deal to give up your trademarked name that can make you money even when you have retired. Why do you think Bret made sure to get the rights to his name before he left to go to WCW ? Rock (if what I heard is correct owns 50% with WWE owning the other 50%) of his name. DO you think Dwayne Johnson wishes he could get that other fifty %? Austin was prohibited from using the moniker 'Stone Cold' when referring to himself, because WWE owned the rights to that moniker. You don't think Austin is pissed about that ? The name is very valuable and I don't care who is asking you, if you know it's worth money, you'd be a damn fool to give it up for any reason. Punk is absolutely right for sticking to his guns and not letting Vince play him for a chump. Sorry Vinnie, pay up or Punk walks.


Btw, what's the connection between Punk and Phoenix ?

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I think Kevin Nash once said "everyone likes to call this 'the business' but as soon as you start acting like it the office tells you you're being a jackass".

I think Punk is smart to keep his name and WWE would be dumb to let him go. It's hard to call him something else. I see some sort of compromise being made and Punk resigning, then winning back the strap before the end of the year.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I completely understand both sides of this and respect both as good business decisions. However, so many of you seem to be under the impression everything Punk is today is down to him, which is crazy. CM Punk created his name - the WWE made it into the star that he is today. Yes Punk was good beforehand - but the WWE have made him worth the money that he now is with the exposure, the storylines and the pushes. The WWE don't want to lose the investment THEY have put into him - not Punk, not the Indys - but the WWE themselves. And anyone who thinks that's unreasonable is living in a fantasy world.

Looking back, the WWE should have got the rights to the name as soon as he joined the company. But I don't think this is an argument that will end with him leaving the company - one side are bound to back down. What the WWE need to do now is insist on the rights to the name but offer him a long contract, one which will offer him stability for the foreseeable future. It would be crazy of the WWE for them to allow him to leave, but crazier to allow him to leave with the rights to a name THEY put the money into and made into a star.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I don't know the legality of these things. However, I really do think there will be a 60/40 compromise or something like that. Or maybe Punk gets a greater payment if he agrees to give up the name, or gets a humongous retirement fund if he ever gets fired. If I were Punk here's what I'd do. Give them the rights IF:
1. It's a 10 year, 25 million dollar contract, 1 million a year for those 10 years guaranteed.
2. If he is terminated or even if he has to retire for injury reasons, he gets 5 million in severence? pay and 300K a year every year after that for the rest of his life. That amount is adjusted each year according to the consumer price index ever year starting this year (to combat inflation) and it can never go down even if the CPI goes down.
3. Health insurance for life, all costs paid for.
4. A certain percent higher than the average guy for all merchandise and DVD sales
5. Some creative control over the character

To me that'd be a sweet deal. Again, I don't know the legalities, but that would be the only way I'd accept.

 

[rge2010]

Yeh, not sure why people are bashing WWE for this and praising Punk for standing his ground. Sure, Punk created his name but WWE established it. They gave him a platform to become a global commodity.

Majority of Wrestling fans hadnt even heard of CM Punk before he joined WWE. His name mean't nothing. Now it does and that is in the main down to WWE. Yes Punk has worked his ass off but I understand WWE protecting their business.

Punk needs WWE alot more than WWE needs Punk.

 

[Reddog1146]

I do not see why WWE even wants to change his name, i guess maybe fans of his want to know what the CM stands for maybe. I support CM Punk for not wanting to change his name could you imagine Christopher Malcolm Punk coming down the ramp instead of CM Punk? The names are not bad that was just what i think WWE may do to his initials.

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

Yeh, not sure why people are bashing WWE for this and praising Punk for standing his ground. Sure, Punk created his name but WWE established it. They gave him a platform to become a global commodity.

Majority of Wrestling fans hadnt even heard of CM Punk before he joined WWE. His name mean't nothing. Now it does and that is in the main down to WWE. Yes Punk has worked his ass off but I understand WWE protecting their business.

Punk needs WWE alot more than WWE needs Punk.

Dude, the problem is not that WWE gave him the platform to make him famous i think everybody knows that. The problem is that people think WWE will take all the credit for making punk what he is today. Look, Punk created his name for years in the indies, made that name somewhat famous through his hard work in the ring. Yes the WWE machine made him famous, but without his hard work WWE wouldn't have signed him in the first place so he deserves credit for his hard work before he went to WWE.

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

I do not see why WWE even wants to change his name, i guess maybe fans of his want to know what the CM stands for maybe. I support CM Punk for not wanting to change his name could you imagine Christopher Malcolm Punk coming down the ramp instead of CM Punk? The names are not bad that was just what i think WWE may do to his initials.

This has nothing to do with the initials in his name. The thing is that, if he ever decides to leave the WWE or is fired by them he couldn't keep his wrestling name in another company. If it was a WWE created name, this wouldn't be an issue since it would be their right to want it since they created it. But since Punk created his wrestling name before coming to WWE, he has the right to keep using it when/if he leaves the company.

 

[vicd71]

Before we are too hard on Punk consider this:

WWE is doing what they can to make money. Vince will sweet talk and say anything to get talent to give him what he wants for the absolute least amount of money. The truth is Punk came up with the name, and makes the name valuable. His work, his talent is what makes the name valuable. WWE wants him to give up his rights to the name so they can profit from the usage of the name without having to give him a red cent. Why do you think Hogan refused to relinquish his rights to his name ? Because he knows it's a bullshit deal to give up your trademarked name that can make you money even when you have retired. Why do you think Bret made sure to get the rights to his name before he left to go to WCW ? Rock (if what I heard is correct owns 50% with WWE owning the other 50%) of his name. DO you think Dwayne Johnson wishes he could get that other fifty %? Austin was prohibited from using the moniker 'Stone Cold' when referring to himself, because WWE owned the rights to that moniker. You don't think Austin is pissed about that ? The name is very valuable and I don't care who is asking you, if you know it's worth money, you'd be a damn fool to give it up for any reason. Punk is absolutely right for sticking to his guns and not letting Vince play him for a chump. Sorry Vinnie, pay up or Punk walks.


Btw, what's the connection between Punk and Phoenix ?

Bret Hart never had to get the "rights" to anything. It's his real name. Vince could've trademarked it until his stamp ran out of ink and it would have meant absolutely nothing, nor would it have ever been legally enforceable.

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

Bret Hart never had to get the "rights" to anything. It's his real name. Vince could've trademarked it until his stamp ran out of ink and it would have meant absolutely nothing, nor would it have ever been legally enforceable.

I think he was talking about the "Hitman" moniker because of course Bret Hart could use his name because its his real name. Anyways, in this case since it was a WWE created name, my bet is that they reached some sort of an agreement because he was still using the "Hitman" moniker in WCW. As for CM Punk, well i already said all i could say about the subject. The only thing punk could do is do what the Ultimate Warrior ou Chyna did and change his legal name to CM Punk, but i don't think he should go this far to stand his ground.

 

[Notorious718]

Gah. I'm kinda torn on this issue. I can understand both sides of the argument. On one hand, I can understand Punk for not wanting to sign over the rights to his name. A name and character that he himself created. At the same time, I understand and agree that WWE made Punk the superstar he is today. CM Punk would still have his indy cult following and his fans in the IWC but made CM Punk a household name known throughout the wrestling community worldwide. I myself didn't know who CM Punk was when he made his ECW debut. So in that sense, I understand why WWE wouldn't want to sign away a name that they invested much time into making a star.

Personally, I'm a huge CM Punk mark. I think it would be crazy for Punk to leave the company unless he'll be financially stable from here on out and I think it would be crazy for WWE to let him go after all the time and storylines invested into the man. I really hope he stays though.