Burying MITB

[RavensEdge]

So far, as far as I can recall, RVD is the only MITB winner to cash in his contract for an actual match. Every other guy has come down after a match or an attack and cashed in. Typically there is the usual complaining about not being ready or whatever but I feel like Cena completely buried the entire concept of it on Raw. Telling Del Rio he doesn't deserve to be champ, which I happen to agree with, but because he hasn't earned it and only cashed in a briefcase and once he has to defend the belt(which he had actually just finished doing) he would lose it. I know winning MITB doesn't give you the credibility off the bat to be WWE champ but you can't have your top guy come out and tell the world that the guy who just cashed his briefcase in isn't worthy of it, it defeats the purpose of being MITB winner to begin with.

Supposedly Daniel Bryan is waiting til WM to cash in but what do you think will happen with MITB next year if the face of the company says anyone who cashes in at the champs weakest moment is basically a worthless champion?

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[The Future Rises]

I agree. But then again.. A lot of fans hate Cena. So they wouldn't just buy whatever he said. Del Rio looks like a "fluke champion" right now. I mean he defeated Rey Mysterio but so what? Cody Rhodes beat Rey too and he isn't exactly a top guy. Plus Del Rio has beaten Rey a few times before so he needs something right now to make him look like a credible champion.

What WWE had Cena say was uncalled for. They made Del Rio look so good building him up and making him win the Royal Rumble and the Money in the Bank briefcase only for Cena to bury the fact that he's champion. Del Rio needs to give Cena a "Miz like beatdown" so he doesn't look weak.

 

[mrhexum]

I don't think Cena's rant on Del Rio tarnishes the MITB winner at all. It was directed at Del Rio's "character". We've been hearing of a Del Rio title win and a Del Rio/Cena feud for awhile now, and this serves as a perfect means to both ends. Cena is upset that he lost the belt, Del Rio now has it and Cena wants it back, simple as that.

 

[H33LTurn]

Cena didnt bury MITB, he did what he was supposed to do and cut a face promo. He made sense too. Faces, like DB and RVD cash in for actual matches. Since heels are supposed to be cowards they cash in unexpectedly, like ADR, The Miz, Swagger, etc.

 

[RavensEdge]

Cena didnt bury MITB, he did what he was supposed to do and cut a face promo. He made sense too. Faces, like DB and RVD cash in for actual matches. Since heels are supposed to be cowards they cash in unexpectedly, like ADR, The Miz, Swagger, etc.

maybe.

The point of MITB is to go through 7 other guys and give yourself the best opportunity you can get at becoming World/WWE champ. It's kind of set up like the 24/7 rule the hardcore title had. I bet if Punk won the match, got bombed by Nash, ADR cashed in, Nash come back and bombs ADR, and then Bryan came down and cashed in on ADR that Cena wouldn't have come out and shit on Bryan for doing the exact same thing. And yes I realize it's because Bryan is a face but it would've been the exact same situation.

 

[H33LTurn]

maybe.

The point of MITB is to go through 7 other guys and give yourself the best opportunity you can get at becoming World/WWE champ. It's kind of set up like the 24/7 rule the hardcore title had. I bet if Punk won the match, got bombed by Nash, ADR cashed in, Nash come back and bombs ADR, and then Bryan came down and cashed in on ADR that Cena wouldn't have come out and shit on Bryan for doing the exact same thing. And yes I realize it's because Bryan is a face but it would've been the exact same situation.

Of course Cena wouldnt be giving Daniel Bryan shit because DB is a face. And its not like Del Rio was doing swantom bombs off the ladder at MITB, he ripped a guys mask off to win. Cenas promo was just to further the storyline. I dont think the people writing the show over-thought it as much as you're doing.

 

[CleverName51]

Cena didn't bury MITB at all, exactly as H33Lturn said, he cut a face promo and cited the examples.

In 2008 when face CM Punk cashed in on Edge after Batista beat down Edge, Punk was still pulling the face move of "poetic justice" on Edge.

Cena, also made a valid point, how many MiTB cash-ins have had long title reigns?

05: Edge, loses title 3 weeks later to Cena

06: RVD, loses title ~5 weeks later in triple threat

07: Kennedy, loses the damn briefcase

08: Punk 1: loses title without defending it. Also, didn't have strong defenses anyway.

09: Punk 2: trades title with Jeff Hardy all summer

10: Kane: Best example of a long credible title reign with the brief case
10: Swagger: Cheap reign filled with shady wins
10: Miz: cheap reign by cowardly heel

11: DBD: not yet cashed in



Cena is just pointing out the facts, there was 1 strong title reign (Kane 2010) and the guy who had it was already an established experienced Superstar.

How can Cena bury MITB if, in fact, as the stats prove, he just pointed out something that the previous winners fell victim too

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

lol how did Cena bury it? A babyface getting mad about a heel doing a heelish thing with a tool they use to stir up controversy, usually in a heelish manner? That's just typical booking dude.

People here are really stupid. You think that "clean wins" and "good 1 on 1 wrestling" and "long title reigns" build up credibility. That's ******ed. It's about story. This angle is about story.

Also, YES you can have your top guy tell someone else he isn't worthy, happens all the time.

This kind of logic is the same kind of logic marks have. "He didnt' beat anyone so he's not as good". It's the STORY. Fucking think "good guy, bad guy, story" not in wins and losses and cheap wins etc.

 

[RavensEdge]

here's the thing... I can only assume that the concept of MITB is to slingshot careers forward, like King of the Ring used to. If his promo pointed out that nobody(aside from Kane apparently) who cashes in MITB is good enough to defend the belt for any length of time does that help out how the match and its winners are percieved? Maybe I suggested a bit too strongly that Cena was the problem on account of it was his promo. The WWE as a whole handles MITB and its winners badly. Letting him come out and head his promo in the direction he did I don't think did the MITB concept any good.


as a side note, I'd like to think RVD's reign would've lasted a few months if he hadn't been caught with weed in his car.

 

[RavensEdge]

lol how did Cena bury it? A babyface getting mad about a heel doing a heelish thing with a tool they use to stir up controversy, usually in a heelish manner? That's just typical booking dude.

People here are really stupid. You think that "clean wins" and "good 1 on 1 wrestling" and "long title reigns" build up credibility. That's ******ed. It's about story. This angle is about story.

Also, YES you can have your top guy tell someone else he isn't worthy, happens all the time.

This kind of logic is the same kind of logic marks have. "He didnt' beat anyone so he's not as good". It's the STORY. Fucking think "good guy, bad guy, story" not in wins and losses and cheap wins etc.

You're not paying attention. My only concern was, if you go back to my original post, that Cena made MITB look like a joke. This was never about who ADR beat or how long Punk's reign was, I was commenting on what Cena said.

If you have a match that is supposed to set someone up for a world title shot and you set up an entire ppv around 2 of these matches and then someone earns their shot at a world title(basically at the most convenient time for them) and they cash in the title shot they earned fully within the rules of the contract and then they're told they're a nothing champion because they didn't earn it then you've made MITB pointless.

Is this good guy vs bad guy? Absolutely, but you can't try to make a heel look weak when he's actually following the rules laid out for him. That makes the gimmick of the match look weak and then you've shot yourself in the foot.

I'm fully aware it's about the story, that's why I watch. I don't like Cena or Del Rio and I like Punk quite a bit. But I am also happy Punk doesn't have the belt because the story is better when he's getting screwed around with and trying to chase the belt.

 

[BigDesigns]

You guys over-analyzed the entire promo. John Cena didn't bury the MITB concept, he only took shots about the way Del Rio did it, but he is the heel so that's how he should be.

Del Rio is probably the few heels in the roster that look capable of beating Cena, he proved more than once that he is ranked above Mysterio (former WWE Champion), he made him tap out in his debut, that it's something very cool to do in the first night. He only lost to Punk, and Cena did too. He had a good feud with Edge and Christian, he broke both guys arm (kayfabe). He ran over Big Show! He is were he is supposed to be!

He then won the Rumble, he main evented WrestleMania and won the MITB briefcase and now he is WWE Champion! I can't find a more worthy guy to be WWE Champion now, he did everything on his own.
If anyone deserves to be WWE Champion, is Del Rio!

 

[I_got_bant_for_idiocy]

yes i agree cena buried MITB and all the winners of it that won it after a wrestler took a beat down!!!! sorry cena not everybody can get the title HANDED to them 11 times..... funny thing about cena promo is that when the miz beat him at mania thanks to the help of the rock what did cena do? he kissed the miz ass and said wow you earned that win.. after summerslam when punk beat him when his foot was on the rope he said the better man won!!!! wasnt your foot on the rope??? 2 minutes of cena on raw = stupidest promo of the night!!! GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD

 

[Syborgg]

Is this good guy vs bad guy? Absolutely, but you can't try to make a heel look weak when he's actually following the rules laid out for him. That makes the gimmick of the match look weak and then you've shot yourself in the foot.

Although, that's exactly how all the "faces" and commentators viewed Christian when he won the title by DQ. Now you're going to say that it's not the same, but it is. Both Christian and Orton knew the rules going in and Christian won by taking advantage of the rule. It's a "heelish" thing to do and it garners almost instant heat.

The thing about the MITB briefcase is that it totally favours the heel character. The fact that you are taking advantage of an already beaten opponent is a very heel-like way to win a championship. John Cena is playing the "hero" by stating his disgust with the way Del Rio won. He's going to make the WWE Universe believe that if he was ever to win the briefcase that Cena would do it the "RVD" way and actually challenge the champion to a match. It seems that's what D-Bryan is doing and the "faces" would, and should ask questions like "If Del Rio is so good, then why did he have to win that way?"

The point is, Cena didn't really bury the MITB concept so much as he pointed out that Del Rio definately took the easy route to the championship. Guys like Michael Cole will point out(and try to sell) the fact that Del Rio won with in the rules of the MITB concept, the same way he did with Christian. This helps build the fued between Cena and ADR. Let's just hope that ADR doesn't just lose in his first match against Cena. THAT would make Del Rio look weak if anything.

 

[Marzyk]

Well it's not like someone just hands you that case. You have to beat several other guys to get it. And to say that to a guy who won the Royal Rumble as well as Money in the Bank is pretty rediculous writing. Also, a face could cash in if they did it on a piece of crap heel. It would be a sweet justice type of situation and would not be seen as cowardly but as karma unfolding. On the subject on Bryan waiting until WM, if Rock/Cena ends up being for the WWE title and Bryan uses his case for the World Title, where does this leave whoever wins the Rumble in 2012?

 

[Syborgg]

Also, a face could cash in if they did it on a piece of crap heel. It would be a sweet justice type of situation and would not be seen as cowardly but as karma unfolding.

Ala what Punk did against Edge in his first MITB cash-in. Edge was so hated that it was a pleasant surprise for the fans to have Punk "steal" the title from him in that way.

On the subject on Bryan waiting to WM, if Rock/Cena ends up being for the WWE title and Bryan uses his case for World Title, where does this leave whoever wins the Rumble in 2012?

I've been wondering this for awhile. My only thoughts are that either Cena/Rock will not be for the title, which it shouldn't, or D-Bryan will abandon his plan. Also there is a third option in which D-Bryan puts his briefcase on the line in a PPV match and ultimately loses it. I suppose that's why we watch....to find out what happens.

 

[Zanman720]

Isn't the way Cena won the belt from Mysterio kinda the same.... Mysterio goes through a hell of a match with Miz only for Cena to cash in his rematch clause later that night.

Alberto Del Rio should do a "Cena, We aren't all that different" kind of promo! xD hahaha. But yeah, it pretty much is the same thing. Rey Mysterio already had to deal with The Miz in a fairly decent, yet fatiguing match. And just an hour or so later has to defend it against Cena? Sure Del Rio cashed it in like a minute or two after...but they both got title shots on the same night that the title was won. Not that different and it would be Boss if Del Rio pulled something like that.

Hopefully Del Rio milks the most out of this Reign. He had an impressive match and victory over Mysterio. That's one point. Let's just hope it's not a cowardly reign as we have seen in the past. He's been built up a lot (Won Royal Rumble, probably would have won at 'Mania had it not been for Edge's situation. Won Money in the Bank. Finally Cashed it in for the title. Not to mention he's been pushed to the top since day 1 when he started feuding with Rey after like what....6 weeks of promos?) I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with this.

 

[justinept]

I think everyone is missing the point here ...

CM Punk was the one that was "screwed" out of the title. CM Punk was the guy who put everything on the line in that grueling match John Cena described and then came out the winner. CM Punk was the guy that got jackknifed by Kevin Nash. CM Punk was the guy that Del Rio took advantage of to win the title.

Please, someone tell me where the hell John Cena fits into this? Just because he was involved in a match with CM Punk doesn't mean that it was his place to call out Del Rio for his actions.

This is the typical John Cena character - the part of his character that I can't stand. He's a damn soap boxer. He always has to preach about the "injustices" done to other people. Even when the so-called victim Cena speaks of says he wasn't bothered by it, Cena still feels the need to speak out.

So no. I don't think John Cena buried the MITB winner. I think he proved once again that in the court of right and wrong, Cena is the judge and jury --- to hell with how the "victim" feels.

 

[Zanman720]

I think everyone is missing the point here ...

CM Punk was the one that was "screwed" out of the title. CM Punk was the guy who put everything on the line in that grueling match John Cena described and then came out the winner. CM Punk was the guy that got jackknifed by Kevin Nash. CM Punk was the guy that Del Rio took advantage of to win the title.

Please, someone tell me where the hell John Cena fits into this? Just because he was involved in a match with CM Punk doesn't mean that it was his place to call out Del Rio for his actions.

This is the typical John Cena character - the part of his character that I can't stand. He's a damn soap boxer. He always has to preach about the "injustices" done to other people. Even when the so-called victim Cena speaks of says he wasn't bothered by it, Cena still feels the need to speak out.

So no. I don't think John Cena buried the MITB winner. I think he proved once again that in the court of right and wrong, Cena is the judge and jury --- to hell with how the "victim" feels.

That's exactly why everyone is making such a big deal out of it. Not only that but his words basically insulted anyone who held the MITB, the way he put it anyways. But yeah, i guess Cena took the initiative to do so since Punk is caught up with Nash.

 

[radec]

Cena didn't bury MITB at all, exactly as H33Lturn said, he cut a face promo and cited the examples.

In 2008 when face CM Punk cashed in on Edge after Batista beat down Edge, Punk was still pulling the face move of "poetic justice" on Edge.

Cena, also made a valid point, how many MiTB cash-ins have had long title reigns?

05: Edge, loses title 3 weeks later to Cena

06: RVD, loses title ~5 weeks later in triple threat

07: Kennedy, loses the damn briefcase

08: Punk 1: loses title without defending it. Also, didn't have strong defenses anyway.

09: Punk 2: trades title with Jeff Hardy all summer

10: Kane: Best example of a long credible title reign with the brief case
10: Swagger: Cheap reign filled with shady wins
10: Miz: cheap reign by cowardly heel

11: DBD: not yet cashed in



Cena is just pointing out the facts, there was 1 strong title reign (Kane 2010) and the guy who had it was already an established experienced Superstar.

How can Cena bury MITB if, in fact, as the stats prove, he just pointed out something that the previous winners fell victim too

Miz
swagger
punk
kane

ALL had good long reigns, there heels they cant be beating the faces fairly... Kane in his reign faced taker 3 times then lost it... wow....

THe people mentioned above had long reigns and that what matters in the question dosent matter what they did in them.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

You guys are fucking stupid. Seriously. It's like forrest gump level ******ation in here.

A babyface, saying that a heel got a cheap win, is NOT burying anything. That's how wrestling fucking works.

Cena fits in to the title picture because he is the company man and that's the company title and he cares about that. Punk is more wrapped up in Nash and "fighting the man". Punk's character is an idealist, so he would rather fight the man than fight for a material possession when he has what he feels more important issues to face.

I'm baffled by the level of reach in here. "buried"? Fucking "BURIED"? Let me tell you this, if a guy is more over afterwards, he's NOT BURIED. I guess you guys think that when Christian took a hell of an ass whipping and kept coming against the biggest star on Smackdown that he got buried too huh? That Christian should have won clean for "credibility"?

I'm not joking, not trying to be funny. It's absolute stupidity to think that a babyface calling a heel cheap buries anyone.

 

[Checkmate]

I somewhat agree and somewhat don't. It all depends on perspective.

If you look at this from the angle that Cena was talking about the MitB concept, and that Del Rio's win was just a product of said concept, then yes, he was kinda trashing the entire point of MitB. The winner of MitB, face or heel, can cash in however it best suits them. A face could cash in like a heel, and a heel can cash in like a heel (a heel wouldn't cash in like a face, and RVD was the only face to cash in like a face.)

Now, if you look at this as merely Cena being pissed at Del Rio for playing the role of a heel, then I don't see the big deal. Cena, who has been a victim of circumstance before, is just pissed that his "loss", already a bit tainted, is now completely overshadowed by Del Rio's cash in. Could the promo have been written better? Yes, definitely, but he did open by saying he had many reasons to be pissed off, and Del Rio was pretty much him venting some rage.

I liked the way CM Punk handled the situation, by saying that he had no real problem with what Del Rio did, as Punk had done the same thing (twice) before. His beef is obviously with Nash, and whoever hired him, as Nash is the reason why Punk was even prone to be cashed in upon.

Cena's character, victim of poor officiating, would be pissed that he lost a good battle to Punk, and would want a rematch with Punk to settle once and for all who the better man really is. Now, because of Del Rio, he can't even have such a rematch. It just seems that in his venting, the briefcase was an easy target for Cena to lash out at, as it supplied Del Rio with the means to be a heel.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Why is Cena bagging MITB mean he is burying it? Why is whatever someone says on a wrestling show mean that someone is being promoted or buried, it's just part of the story.

If John Cena came out and said that the world was flat, would that mean that he is "burying" Christopher Columbus?

 

[mrwilliams061088]

I've had it with this whole concept of cashing in the briefcase at anytime. It's the hardcore title all over again. I thought it was great when Edge first cashed it in on Cena back in 2004 i believe it was. (correct me if i'm wrong). But 7 years of this crap is enough! The only guy to ever cash it in, in an actual match is Rvd and he's not even in the wwe anymore, so technically no one has won the title straight up. I hope D bryan actually does wait to wm to cash it in and actually win it without the surprise concept. I'm not saying get rid of mitb altogether just make it to where you have to cash it in during a match. Lets bury this because after 6 or 7 years much like john cena's character, it's stale.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I've had it with this whole concept of cashing in the briefcase at anytime. It's the hardcore title all over again. I thought it was great when Edge first cashed it in on Cena back in 2004 i believe it was. (correct me if i'm wrong). But 7 years of this crap is enough! The only guy to ever cash it in, in an actual match is Rvd and he's not even in the wwe anymore, so technically no one has won the title straight up. I hope D bryan actually does wait to wm to cash it in and actually win it without the surprise concept. I'm not saying get rid of mitb altogether just make it to where you have to cash it in during a match. Lets bury this because after 6 or 7 years much like john cena's character, it's stale.

Well, stale characters aren't over and WWE gets to look at more sophisticated numbers than we do, so I'm guessing Cena isn't as stale as you think.

Why make it "have to be a match"? Because straight up wrestling sells right? Yea, that's a load of shit. The surprise factor works and the fact that everyone has won means that anytime the champion is hurt, people get on their feet, when the music hits, they get excited. Why the fuck would you want to take away that? To "build credibility"?

It may not be a surprise that it happens the way it does but it is a surprise when it happens. Sure a lot of people predicted ADR, but a lot of people predict the MITB to be cashed in a most big matches. So it's not really predictable if people are consistently wrong.

 

[mrwilliams061088]

Why make it have to be a match? Because the whole concept is played out. You're saying after 7 years of seeing this you're not the least bit sick of seeing this? Look at Jack Swagger, his entire reign as champion was a complete joke and no one even really remembers it. Maybe if he had cashed it in and beat Jericho straight up maybe peole would've actually taken him serious. And yea ur right, straight up wrestling doesn't sell at all, punk vs cena, shawn michaels vs undertaker, triple h vs undertaker, yea ur right, straight up wrestling doesn't sell at all. You saying it doesn't is a load of shit. Take it away because it's just not appealing anymore, it's old.