Brett Favre: Where Do You Rank Him?

[Slyfox696]

no i wouldn't call him the best, but Elway was a soon to be hall of famer, executing the offense, on the best team in the NFL. You take away Elway, and they're crap for the most part. and one of the reasons why Denver has a good line is because of the zone blocking scheme in which they execute.

Take away Terrell Davis, and Elway doesn't win a Super Bowl.

hey, Favre could have benefitted from having Reggie White on the other side of the ball.

No more than Elway benefited from Neil Smith, Bill Romanoski, and Steve Atwater on his defense.

When Favre won the SB in 1997, he had 2 other pro bowlers on offense

Who?

and he had 3 on defense, and in 1996, he had pro bowlers and all pro players, so he did play with some talent. so don't give me that

Who?

 

[Slyfox696]

but to me Favre will never be the best QB of all time for one simple reason; mistakes. He just made too damn many of 'em towards the end of his career.

But see, that's unfair, because Favre HAD to take those chances. He had NO talent around him. I remember one year they were literally signing wide receivers and Favre didn't even know who they were until three days before the game. And he's supposed to throw to those guys?

Compare those years to this year, when he finally had a solid receiving core around him. His INTs were HALF of what they were 2 years ago. His INT to Attempt ratio was on the same level as Peyton Manning's. He threw for MORE yards than Peyton Manning. He was 4th in completion percentage this year.

When Favre had a little bit of talent, look at what he did. Holding his mistakes of a few years back is unfair as he had NOBODY to help him out.

 

[BooCocky]

Take away Terrell Davis, and Elway doesn't win a Super Bowl.

take Elway away and TD doesnt win a SB. if it was that easy for a RB Sanders would have had plenty.

No more than Elway benefited from Neil Smith, Bill Romanoski, and Steve Atwater on his defense.

I know

Who?

Offense, Dorsey Levens, and TE Mark Chmura.(1997)
1996: Keith Jackson. Frank Minters (C)

Who?

Defense, 1997: Reggie White, Leroy Butler, Doug Evans
1996: White, Butler

See, they had pro bowlers, and Shannahans offense was a beast at making RB's look good.

 

[X]

But see, that's unfair, because Favre HAD to take those chances. He had NO talent around him. I remember one year they were literally signing wide receivers and Favre didn't even know who they were until three days before the game. And he's supposed to throw to those guys?

Compare those years to this year, when he finally had a solid receiving core around him. His INTs were HALF of what they were 2 years ago. His INT to Attempt ratio was on the same level as Peyton Manning's. He threw for MORE yards than Peyton Manning. He was 4th in completion percentage this year.

When Favre had a little bit of talent, look at what he did. Holding his mistakes of a few years back is unfair as he had NOBODY to help him out.

Nobody to help him out? Who has been Favre's number one weapon for the majority of his career? Donald Driver. Who is generally renowned as one of the greatest recievers of his era? Donald Driver.

Favre didn't have nearly the amount of talent around him then the other QBs I mentioned (except for Brady, who won with absolutely ZERO offensive weapons) but I still think it's fair enough to judge his mistakes.

Because they were his mistakes. Not his recievers fault, or his O-Line's fault, it was his fault. Just like his last pass of all time, the INT in the NFC Championship game, was a mistake. And his career ended on that note.

Favre is Top 5, for sure. But I'd take Elway or Montana over Favre any day of the week.

 

[klunderbunker]

That's why I put Elway above favre. Not much above, but above. When favre had next to nothing around him, he was competitive, but never a real threat to get to the superbowl. When he had the talent backing him up, the packers were able to make a run. When Elway had next to nothing, he was able to make the superbowl, albeit in losing efforts. Granted, how much of that was him and how much it was great coaching is hard to say.

 

[Lil Wes]

...Why would someone start this thread with that particuliar post of mine which has nothing to do with Brett Favre?

I've been wondering the same thing.

Anyways, on the topic of Brett Favre, I'm torn. Sly gives good arguments, and Favre does own alot of records, but to me Favre will never be the best QB of all time for one simple reason; mistakes. He just made too damn many of 'em towards the end of his career.

Agreed and is the all time leader in INT's. Which hurts.

Here's what my Top 5 would look like:

1. Elway
2. Montana
3. Marino
4. Favre

If you are basing it on all time. Why would a Favre be above some of the greats from an earlier era. Graham was a fucking beast with all of his stats, awards, titles, all pro teams etc.

Unitas? I think Graham and Unitas could both be placed above Favre and maybe even Marino. I love Marino he was a great player as was Favre, but these others get overlooked.

And the fifth spot would be a tie because I can't put Young, Aikman, or Brady out.

All of the guys I mentioned from earlier eras are better than Aikman and Young. Brady is still playing, so I can't really put him or Manning on the list yet. But....He will be top 5 when he's done.

Take away Terrell Davis, and Elway doesn't win a Super Bowl.

WTF are you talking about? You do know Shanahan's system thrives on making Running Backs? Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson ring any bells?

 

[Slyfox696]

take Elway away and TD doesnt win a SB. if it was that easy for a RB Sanders would have had plenty.

I agree.

What does that have to do with the fact that Favre won his Superbowl without a TD, and Elway didn't?

I know

Then why bring it up?

Offense, Dorsey Levens, and TE Mark Chmura.(1997)

You're trying to tell me that Dorsey Levens and Mark Chmura are Terrell Davis and Shannon Sharpe? Or Roger Craig, Tom Rathman and Jerry Rice?

1996: Keith Jackson. Frank Minters (C)

Defense, 1997: Reggie White, Leroy Butler, Doug Evans
1996: White, Butler

Which one of those guys was Favre supposed to throw to? Or hand the ball off to?

 

[Slyfox696]

WTF are you talking about? You do know Shanahan's system thrives on making Running Backs? Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson ring any bells?

I'm sorry. I must have missed the Super Bowl Elway won before Terrell Davis got there.

Which one was it?

That's why I put Elway above favre. Not much above, but above. When favre had next to nothing around him, he was competitive, but never a real threat to get to the superbowl. When he had the talent backing him up, the packers were able to make a run. When Elway had next to nothing, he was able to make the superbowl, albeit in losing efforts. Granted, how much of that was him and how much it was great coaching is hard to say.

Favre WON a Super Bowl with no talent around him. What are you talking about?

 

[klunderbunker]

He had talent around him that year. Not hall of fame talent, but good talent. Dorsey Levens and Antonio Freeman on offense, and Reggie White leading a good defense which took a lot of pressure off him. Not to mention Desmond Howard was the one that put that game away.

 

[BooCocky]

What does that have to do with the fact that Favre won his Superbowl without a TD, and Elway didn't?

they both had pro bowlers at the time. Favre had Dorsey Levens in 1997. Same Dorsey Levens who ran for 1400+ yards

You're trying to tell me that Dorsey Levens and Mark Chmura are Terrell Davis and Shannon Sharpe? Or Roger Craig, Tom Rathman and Jerry Rice?
Which one of those guys was Favre supposed to throw to? Or hand the ball off to?

in 1997 Favre had Brooks, and Freeman to throw the ball too. They both had over 1000 yds receiving. Freeman was a pro bowler at one point. Brooks had some solid years as a receiver so apparently he had someone. They arent much different from an Ed Mccafferey.

 

[Slyfox696]

He had talent around him that year. Not hall of fame talent, but good talent. Dorsey Levens and Antonio Freeman on offense,

You call Dorsey Levens and Antonio Freeman talent? Then you must consider Bobby Humphrey and Vance Johnson talent too. Because they were every bit as good as Levens and Freeman.

and Reggie White leading a good defense which took a lot of pressure off him.

Reggie White was 36 years old. Seriously now.

Not to mention Desmond Howard was the one that put that game away.

Desmond Howard had one good game. Hardly the reason the Packers were in their position. I suppose Larry Brown is the reason the Cowboys won their Super Bowl in 1996 eh?

 

[Slyfox696]

they both had pro bowlers at the time. Favre had Dorsey Levens in 1997. Same Dorsey Levens who ran for 1400+ yards

Are you really going to tell me that Dorsey Levens meant as much to the Packers as TD did to the Broncos?

The point remains the same. Elway wasn't even the best player in his own backfield when he won his Super Bowl titles. He had a Hall of Fame tight end. He had a hell of a receiver in Rod Smith. He had Mark Schlereth, Hall of Famer Gary Zimmerman, and future Hall of Famer Tom Nalen on his offensive line.

The talent isn't comparable.

in 1997 Favre had Brooks, and Freeman to throw the ball too. They both had over 1000 yds receiving. Freeman was a pro bowler at one point. Brooks had some solid years as a receiver so apparently he had someone. They arent much different from an Ed Mccafferey.

Except they don't have a Terrell Davis or a Sterling Sharpe to divert opponents attention.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yes I call them talent. Talented enough the with them favre was able to get into the superbowl. You don't play in the nfl without having talent. Yeah white was 36, and still one of the best in the league.

 

[Slyfox696]

Yes I call them talent. Talented enough the with them favre was able to get into the superbowl. You don't play in the nfl without having talent. Yeah white was 36, and still one of the best in the league.

Well, let me clarify. Obvious the Packers had talent. Like you said, you don't get to the Super Bowl without being a good team.

But, we're comparing talent among Super Bowl teams. In particular, we're discussing quality of winning Super Bowl teams. And, of all the Quarterbacks we're discussing, Favre's surrounding talent was inferior.

Thus negating this concept that somehow another quarterback is better because he won an arbitrary number of more Super Bowls.

 

[klunderbunker]

Absolutely favre had the least amount of talent around him, no arguement there. I don't think that Elway winning more super bowls makes him better. I think that consistently getting to the superbowls, with limited, although not as limited as favre had, around him, makes him a very slightly better qb.

 

[BooCocky]

Are you really going to tell me that Dorsey Levens meant as much to the Packers as TD did to the Broncos?

and yet you are ignoring the fact, they were both pro bowl running backs the year there teams won their respective SB. 1400+ yds is a solid season. So thats ignoring the simple fact that he also had a talented RB, and he was a good solid RB, until he was hit with injuries.

The point remains the same. Elway wasn't even the best player in his own backfield when he won his Super Bowl titles. He had a Hall of Fame tight end. He had a hell of a receiver in Rod Smith. He had Mark Schlereth, Hall of Famer Gary Zimmerman, and future Hall of Famer Tom Nalen on his offensive line.

What point Sly? They both had talent, and your Reggie White comment was funny, in 1997 he had 11 sacks, and was a pro bowler and all pro defensive end. Leroy Butler was also a good hard hitting safety the time they went to the SB.

The talent isn't comparable.

Except they don't have a Terrell Davis or a Sterling Sharpe to divert opponents attention.

Hey i already gave the numbers on Freeman and Brooks, two solid receivers, who could make plays. they were at least the equivalent to an Ed McCafferey.

 

[finchy]

I think Favre ranks up in the top 5 not easily but definitley not arguably. I think the fact that the guy is simply a player in a half. So many straight starts, wins, touchdowns, and the most important a Superbowl. The thing that puts him in the top 5 is his touchdowns and Superbowl but the most amazing to me is his starts. Seriously think about how many games he played straight through. Top 5 Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, John Elway... I havent put in Manning or Brady cause they still play. But if you think about these guys are complete legends of their time. Steve Young is a ghost now, Warren Moon gets little credit cause he never won the big one, and Fran Tarkenton was not the prototype quarterback for that time, I mean the football world wasnt ready for that kind of player.