I think it also depends on what audience TNA wishes to draw. The signing on Hogan and Bishoff got my attention because I was a hardcore wrestling fan during their prime. I watch WWE and get mad because I don't know who is anymore except Cena and Orton, the acting is overall horrible because of PG status and because everyone is too green. I don't agree with the new talent taking a backseat to the old talent - but I think for the most part TNA balances this out so it's equally, unlike WCW. The TNA audience is an older audience so it makes sense they would reach out to older talent. TNA has a lil bit of ECW, WWE, and WCW all wrapped into one. WWE is just WWE.
Bret Hart Comments on TNA, Bischoff, Hogan
- Thread starter Optimist Prime
- Start date
UltimateHitman
Old School Legend
I think Bret's word is a far cry more reliable than Hogan's and he is probably spot on. What reason would he have to say something that didn't have any merit? But a quick note to the "similarities" poster. Number one, Bret has not made a "gazillion" guest appearances and comebacks like Hogan has. Bret has not stolen the spotlight like Hogan has. Bret has not taken over any booking/decision making like Hogan has. He's not pushing for reality shows or "Finding Bret Hart" specials. Is it true that he probably enjoyed the feeling of coming back and feeling that feeling he had been cheated out of for so many long years while ego driven over-rated guys like Hogan kept popping up and taking spot after spot? He probably did enjoy it, and I don't blame Vince for doing what he did. He owed him that. But to say that Bret's comeback was like Hogan's is total garbage and extremely unwarranted.
Stunner=RKO
Occasional Pre-Show
Totally Agree with Bret hart.. Hey TNA mArks.. Wheres the change? Where's the high ratings and rise of ppv buyouts? Where's the great main events and epic matches? Last time I checked hogan and bischoff are the ones who promised us this.. Not the fans and not the haters (like me) .. Remember when they weren't there.. And Christian was feuding with angle and Aj styles wwas caught in the middle of it.. I mean that was a great angle.. With Aj turning on a face Christian.. Great angle.. Now we have Jeff I-smoke-crack-rocks hardy champion with hogan trying again to remake his golden years.. U know why Jeff was so great in WWE? Because they kept him in check.. They tried their best not to keep him happy but keep him in line and with the WWE's help became one of the greatest underdog champion.. Sigh TNA why have u forsaken wrestling!?!?!?!
In all fairness, you have to look at the context of Bret coming back.
1) Give some much needed (albiet wasted) credibility to the Hart Dynasty
2) The final public settling of scores of the Montreal Screwjob
My impression is that putting the US Title on Bret (for all 15 minutes he had it), was a parting gift and a way of putting water under the bridge for what Vince and the others did to him in 1997. If Bret had not left WWF for WCW, he would have likely had countless more title reigns and would have likely faded off into the sunset when his career came to a close. I obviously can't speak on his behalf, but my sense is that he wouldn't be trying to wring anything else out of the ring if his story was a different tale. Also, remember that at the time, it was Miz with the US belt and they needed to get it off him without him having to feud with the other person so he could be moved up the card.
As far as questionable booking, what questionable booking was done for Bret? Outside of the McMahon fight, his matches have all been tag efforts in order to keep his contact to a minimum and keep him out of harm's way. In the McMahon fight, he beat him with a chair for what seemed like 4 hours and even stopped to sit down in the middle. He really didn't do much more work than a manager would have done anyways. And at least he doesn't look as ridiculous doing it as Hogan does with his flab flying everywhere and that leg drop that wasn't even believable 20 years ago.
TheHitMark-SirJoseOle
A Fan Of Wrestling Not Backstage BS
And those are fair points to make as well, it's just that to me the closure on the Montreal Screwjob could have been done without some of those matches albeit they were made to keep him from getting into any major physical contact, because to me that's not the Bret Hart I grew up watching every Saturday Morning from the early to mid 90s. I liked having closure, but at the same time, I think there could have been better ways to even his score with Vince in a match that for understandable reasons does not do justice to Bret's career. I mean I grew up with all the classic matches boss as a kid I can roll all of them off, the SSlam 91 IC Title Match with Perfect, the year after at SS 92 against the Bulldog, the WM VIII IC title match with Roddy Piper, his tag team matches with the Anvil vs the Killer Bees, Bulldogs, Demolition, all classics. His WWF title matches against Nash, Michaels (The Survivor Series 1992 is a TRUE classic that rarely gets mentioned). I mean what made me like Bret in addition to Hogan growing up was that I had variety with my favorite performers, If i wanted my more power based wrestling match with more showmanship and a few power moves and just plain silliness at times, I'd watch Hogan. But if I wanted to watch a match that looked like a real fight, I'd watch Bret. Just the way he could immobilize men bigger than him in the storylines like Taker, Vader and Nash was just compelling stuff. The way he'd trade holds with Bob Backlund or test his endurance in the ring with Shawn Michaels just spoke volumes of his in ring work. When he went back to WWE in those limited roles during his matches it's just a disappointment. Just my opinion considering the circumstances of what Bret's been through for so long. Can't say I found it all bad. It was great to have Bret out there to do appearances, and I knew not to expect much but I just didn't enjoy it the same way. I think Bret just coming back and finding closure with Shawn Michaels in that one segment on RAW would have been enough to really add closure to the Montreal screwjob and then we could have seen him do something to make Vince's life miserable, i.e. take WWE over, I mean I know it's been done before, but with Bret pulling that on Vince, it would have been a better and more poetic idea than just beating Vince with a chair in a substandard match. Afterall, Bret got his physical retaliation that same night at Survivor Series 97.
So with the whole Hogan-Bret controversy we've discussed here, I just feel there are double standards and I prefer as a fan to only point this out when I hear other people act as first hand witnesses to events that happen backstage, not saying that you're making yourself out to be an authority though, so I don't put you in that category. On a side note, didn't Miz get the title back anyway after Bret vacated it?
You're countering my opinion with a solid one of your own even if I don't see eye to eye with all of it. I can respect that, totally. But in all fairness it was a great business move for Bret to do and for WWE in general. I can't dispute that fact.
Looking at how Hogan's doing things, as a fan I would have preferred seeing him do what Bret is doing now, and staying with WWE, but at the same time he wanted to try to go out on his own outside of WWE again, obviously it's not working like it did in WCW, I'd like to hope the format changes eventually in TNA but time will tell on that.
And as far as the Legdrop goes man, yeah it's laughable and lame if we were talking about something that was supposed to be a legit sport, but hell Hogan was the Superman of pro wrestling. It's like the Man Of Steel's heat vision or super-breath ridiculous in nature but in their context are what they are. On top of that we have to suspend the disbelief, as goofy as it is on the surface or else there'd be nothing about this stuff to like in the first place.
Overall though kudos man and I appreciate your willingness to defend your point in a democratic way, I wanted to do my best to treat you with tact as well and hopefully I have.
What crap are you smoking? Who the hell has been a TNA champ right away after leaving WWE? Cage? No. Angle? No. You sure as hell arent talking about the Pope and Anderson are you? Oh theres RVD... i guess you must be right then, huh? Despite him being away for a very long time. Stop acting like you watch TNA cause obviously you dont.
californiachef84
Pre-Show Stalwart
Kofi Kingston and John Morrison would be instant champions? What the hell are you smoking... Mr Anderson has been there almost a year and has not won a single title. Anderson is a much bigger name than Morrison or Kingston. Jeff Hardy just NOW won a world title... I think he is a much bigger star than the two you mentioned.
Kevin Nash has every right to bash on Miz being WWE champion. As much as you may hate to admit it, Nash's opinion matters a hell of a lot more than yours or Joey Styles. Nash was a MAJOR member involved in the biggest money making storyline in wrestling history. I think that qualifies Nash to have an opinion in the matter.
You hope Vince buys out TNA so it can "be used properly"? Yeah, that would be a great idea. What a moron!!! Vince is not quite the genius that you make him out to be. XFL anyone? NXT? What about the HORRIBLE gimmicks that his mind has come up with... Doink the Clown, Tugboat, Boogeyman? Those must have been good in your mind.
As far as Bret Hart is concerned, who has drawn more money in the wrestling business, Hogan or Hart? I rest my case. Sounds like a bit of jealousy on Bret's part. Bret is wrong on this matter, and if he thinks that anything he has done since his return to the WWE is cutting edge, must see tv, then he has lost all credibility.
Lying Retarded Crybaby Troll Bitch
Because I whine like an infant
I got a hint for you: He's not smoking the same thing as RVD. Anderson would be a bigger star in the 3rd-biggest company, perhaps. But even TNA knows he's not a more-believable Champ than Hardy. Kofi & JoMo both are more talented than Anderson.
I agree he earned an opinion on who gets a belt... So long as he doesn't point that finger @ himself.
NXT is how he started to make stars out of Low-Ki &, yes, to a point, Daniel Bryan. If he has to do it that way, give him credit for that. (With much of TNA, he'd do what he did with WCW, rightfully sending them home.)
Hogan or Bret would be fine for the business, so long as they know enough to stay off-camera.
WWEIsLife2
Championship Contender
As a Fan of The Hitman and The Hart Family I agree with what he said about Hogan & Bischoff. Anyone can talk about Hogan not winning any Titles in TNA and Bret winning the US Title in the WWE but Bret's US Title run only lasted a Week while Hogan is either in every Segment on Impact or mentioned by Tenay & Tazz every 5 seconds.
Bret Hart's Return to me was/is very special and it brought closure to what happend after he left WWF for WCW in 1997. Hogan is still ****ing himself out on TV every week whether its in TNA or the "Finding" Hulk Hogan deal he did. Nothing against Hogan,I respect him for all he's done in Wrestling but he needs to finally Retire,its over.
Bret saw what they did in WCW and he is seeing the same thing happen in TNA to the younger guys who are there under Hogan/Bischoff's thumb.
Bret Hart's Return to me was/is very special and it brought closure to what happend after he left WWF for WCW in 1997. Hogan is still ****ing himself out on TV every week whether its in TNA or the "Finding" Hulk Hogan deal he did. Nothing against Hogan,I respect him for all he's done in Wrestling but he needs to finally Retire,its over.
Bret saw what they did in WCW and he is seeing the same thing happen in TNA to the younger guys who are there under Hogan/Bischoff's thumb.
californiachef84
Pre-Show Stalwart
Are we really going to go down this road? Anderson was one of the BIGGEST up and coming stars in the WWE when he was Mr. Kennedy. He was even slated to be Mr. McMahon's son in the illegitimate son storyline. Because he got injured they went with the comical route of having Hornswoggle be Mr. McMahon's son. Kennedy was then in several high profile fueds with the WWE's top talent. Don't act like Anderson was not a big deal. He still is a big deal, and would be a top star in the WWE if he was still there. His mic work is fantastic, on the same level as the Rock. Don't give me this garbage about Anderson not being a top talent just because he is no longer in your beloved WWE.
Lying Retarded Crybaby Troll Bitch
Because I whine like an infant
I disagree. I think they were going to give him a big-time push to help him. (Look what they're doing for Nexus.)
Now that they've had the chance to see what he can/can't do, I guarantee you if TNA lets him go in 2011, there will be his future endeavors.
That's often referred to as carrying.
Key word: "Was".
Now that's assuming facts that don't exist.
If I were making a list, that is 1 of the things I love about WWE.
californiachef84
Pre-Show Stalwart
Of course all of this is subject to your opinion and mine as well. However, you need to realize something about the difference between Bret Hart and Hulk Hogan. Hogan is, and was, a much bigger draw than Bret Hart ever could hope to be. I am sure there is some animosity there from Bret Hart for that. He has taken several opportunities to bash on Hogan & Bischoff recently and I am not really sure that it is his place to do so.
You say that Hogan should retire and walk away... You do realize that Hogan could walk back into the WWE right now, lace up the boots, and face John Cena at the next PPV, and that ppv would do more buys than any other ppv WWE has done this year (other than Wrestlemania), don't you? Hogan vs Cena would out draw any of this other stuff that they have been giving you. Can you say the same thing about Hart vs Cena? I think not. Nobody wants to see Hart vs Cena. However, people would pay good money to see Hogan vs Cena. Hogan= biggest draw ever...
Lying Retarded Crybaby Troll Bitch
Because I whine like an infant
I don't know how much animosity there could be. Surely, there might've been in the past. However (& Bret probably realizes this) Hogan has trashed his own drawing ability.
I hope you realize what a load of crap that is. If not for his own off-camera stake in the company, Hogan could be the next victim in one of those "Loser Gets Fired"-type matches TNA seems to be having a lot lately.
I think neither, but I'd say any Hart has a better shot than Hogan.
Nobody wants to see either, everybody being as they are now.
That was then, this is now.
californiachef84
Pre-Show Stalwart
Well, that is your opinion... Most people do not share this view, as Anderson has all of the ingredients you would find in any of the top superstars in pro wrestling history. He has the over the top personality, fantastic mic skills, solid in-ring worker, and "the look" of a top star. I believe that you have the view that you do just because Anderson doesn't work for the WWE anymore. Brand loyalty... why is it so hard for people to overcome brand loyalty?
Lying Retarded Crybaby Troll Bitch
Because I whine like an infant
How do you know automatically what "most people" think about 1 guy?!
He has 2, maybe 3, of those. Unfortunately, the 1 he definitely lacks is the 1 most-equired in the business he's in.
On the contrary, I like many of the people in both companies, & dislike many in each... Largely the ones who (like KK/Anderson) don't belong in the business.
californiachef84
Pre-Show Stalwart
Actually Hogan is still in great shape, and it is believable that he could compete in the squared circle. I do not even need to argue my position on the matter. Hogan's match with Shawn Michaels vs Davari & Muhammed Hassan at Backlash 2006 is all I need to point to. I have not heard a pop like Hogan got that night since the Monday Night Wars. Then his match with HBK at Summerslam 2006... same thing. Not to mention the excellent ppv buy rates those two ppvs did. Fans actually booed HBK and cheered for Hogan. When was the last time you can remember people booing HBK. Hogan vs the Rock at Wrestlemania 18. Hogan, the bad guy, gets cheered over the Rock, who is the good guy. When was the last time that happend, if ever, between two superstars of this caliber?
People were saying that Hogan was old and washed up during the end of his WCW run, and he still drew money. People were saying in 2002 when they brought the nWo into the WWE, that Hogan was washed up, and he still drew money. People were saying that Hogan was washed up in 2006, and he still drew money... You say that he is washed up and should go away here in 2010, and he could headline the next ppv against Cena and still draw top superstar money...
So sorry that you don't like fact.
Lying Retarded Crybaby Troll Bitch
Because I whine like an infant
If you don't, nobody will. You might be the only one who still finds that "believable".
Right; Tagging with a sure-thing HOFer against 1 ex-TNA guy & another guy I haven't heard from in years.
Before the match; Right? I get the feeling he gets a similar reaction in public... Or anywhere else he agrees not to wrestle.
Right; It's to the point even Hogan is getting carried by some.
They incorrectly hoped if they gave him a decent-enough reaction, he'd stop there.
That's why WWE books things like that; You'll get buys from both fan-bases.
Eventually (like now), they will be right.
I'm so sorry you think that's a fact.
californiachef84
Pre-Show Stalwart
There was a thread on Mr. Anderson a couple of months ago, and like %70 of the people said that he is great.
You bash me for taking a modest approach and saying that most people like Anderson. Then in the same breath, you have the gull to say that Anderson doesn't belong in the business? You are a tool. Who gave you the authority to decide who belongs and who doesn't?
Lying Retarded Crybaby Troll Bitch
Because I whine like an infant
Are you sure you didn't misread it, the way you put the % before the #?
Who won't say what online, where you can't match them up to any real names or faces?
The fact that my eyes work, & he sucks to the point he should be sponsored by Hoover.
Anyway, what does any of this have to do with Hulk or Hart?!
californiachef84
Pre-Show Stalwart
Hogan is the biggest draw ever, and can still out draw most of the "top" talent in the WWE right now. So sorry for you that I have history on my side. Your world that you live in is different. They have meds for that so that you can somewhat function with the rest of us.
pessimism101
Pre-Show Stalwart
First, since far too many people fail to see the relevance of Bret Hart winning the US title from the Miz, I'll briefly explain why it happened. 1) It was in CANADA (frankly, this should be enough of a reason); 2) having a Canadian Wrestling Icon lose to a pompous ass like the Miz is not smart booking when you're in Canada; 3) Vince paid Bret back, sort of, by allowing him to a champion in his home country since Bret's title was stolen from him in 1997; 4) Toronto has been fiercely loyal to Vince despite the shitty treatment they get from Vince and the WWE (seriously: no PPV anywhere in Ontario since 2006 and yet the state of California has had like 29 by now)
As for Bret's comments, since he hasn't been anywhere near TNA, his opinions are irrelevant. While Hogan may be in far more segments than anyone else, remember who pays his paychecks... Dixie. If Dixie wants him out there, he's out there. (Plus, I've even read on WrestleZone that Hogan has less authority than many people believe.) It's unfair and ignorant to put all or most of TNA's problems in the back of Hogan.
As for Bret's comments, since he hasn't been anywhere near TNA, his opinions are irrelevant. While Hogan may be in far more segments than anyone else, remember who pays his paychecks... Dixie. If Dixie wants him out there, he's out there. (Plus, I've even read on WrestleZone that Hogan has less authority than many people believe.) It's unfair and ignorant to put all or most of TNA's problems in the back of Hogan.
Lying Retarded Crybaby Troll Bitch
Because I whine like an infant
I function fine; You can't even quote posts properly. (I said some of that, & someone else said other parts.)
Hogan is not much of a draw anymore, & certainly not as much as some of you say, or as much of some of the top of TNA's roster talent-wise.
californiachef84
Pre-Show Stalwart
You know that you spend way too much time on these websites, in your parents basement, when you start bashing people for not "quoting posts properly". Listen to yourself buddy, it is like being upset at someone for not knowing everything about Twilight or Harry Potter. I only OCCASIONALLY post on here... so I am SOOOOOOOO sorry that my posting ability is not to your liking.
Hogan vs Cena will happen at somepoint, and we will see if you or I was right about Hogan's drawing ability.
Lying Retarded Crybaby Troll Bitch
Because I whine like an infant
I'm not at my parents', or in anyone's basement. Also, I have never seen a movie from "Harry Potter" or "Twilight", or read a word of 1 of the books. Nice try.
We could find out I was right, if anyone were dumb enough to book that match. But they're not.
Back on-topic, anyone?
californiachef84
Pre-Show Stalwart
I know that you cannot be this dumb... Not once did I ever say that you watch Twilight or Harry Potter. I was using these as euphemisms, err, maybe that was too big of a word for you... I was using these as "examples" of stupid things to be mad at someone for. You were mad because I didn't "quote the posts" correctly. If you cannot figure this out then you seriously need help.
Anyways, I agree with Pessimisim that Bret has nothing to do with TNA and probably should not be focusing so much time and effort on a company that he doesn't even work for.