Austin Aries and the Edge Mistake

[SacredMesa]

So this has been bugging me as it seems like history could very easily be repeating itself only instead of WWE this time it could be happening in TNA.


Those watching remember when Edge first won the WWE title from Cena when he cashed in his MiTB contract at the Elimination chamber. Edge was on fire at that point hotter than pretty much every one in wrestling at that time. Instead of following through with this and giving Edge the chance to run with it, he lost the title less than a month later to Cena, in order to WWE to cash in on the quick profit of Cena vs Triple H, and Edge had his match against Foley at Wrestlemania. Now while one could argue that Edge still went on to become a legend it's undeniable that losing that title cost Edge a ton of momentum that should of been capitalized on but instead was wasted, and IMO prevented Edge from becoming as big a star as he really could have.


Now I fear that TNA may make the same mistake with Aries. Right now Aries has won the title and is hotter than anyone I've seen in a long time, save maybe Daniel Bryan. The crowd I heard on IW last night was amazingly hot for him. The thing is there is still the lingering story of Robert Roode and Jame Storm that everyone still feels will be settled at BFG for the title. This has me worried right now because Storm vs Roode is still a big deal for TNA, and if TNA does decided to take the belt off of Aries quickly it would completely crap over the momentum they created with Aries beating Roode cleanly and strongly.

Does anyone else have these same worries?

 

[wrestlehead]

Absolutely agree, they've quickly built Aries up to what he is now, and it would be stupid for them to send that all crashing down. This however, could work in his favour say if he was "screwed out of the title" so Impact could still do the whole Storm v Roode thing. Have Roode then win the title, meanwhile Aries gains a huge support base with the fans and builds himself up again, and have him win the title and have the whole "justice has been achieved" feel going on.

Like I said, don't think they should do that, but that is an instance where it could work.

In saying that though, Impact has made the WHC incredibly prestigious as Roode had the longest reign in history, and 2 title changes in nearly as many months could mean bad things for the solidified rep of the WHC.

 

[Giddy]

I agree, Aries is one of the hottest wrestlers in a long time, the crowd for him on Impact was amazing. He's great, and could mean big things for TNA.

It's pretty obvious unless there's a big swerve (which I don't think there should be) Roode vs Storm will be happening at BFG. Whether it's for the title or not is up in the air. I for one don't think it needs the title, it's been the biggest feud and underlying feud in TNA for a year, and I think it can be just as big if it's not for the title. I think it would still be as great a storyline without the title, and it won't take credibility away from Aries, which hits two birds with one stone. I just hope TNA realizes that they don't need to take the title off Aries so quick.

 

[SacredMesa]

I agree, Aries is one of the hottest wrestlers in a long time, the crowd for him on Impact was amazing. He's great, and could mean big things for TNA.

It's pretty obvious unless there's a big swerve (which I don't think there should be) Roode vs Storm will be happening at BFG. Whether it's for the title or not is up in the air. I for one don't think it needs the title, it's been the biggest feud and underlying feud in TNA for a year, and I think it can be just as big if it's not for the title. I think it would still be as great a storyline without the title, and it won't take credibility away from Aries, which hits two birds with one stone. I just hope TNA realizes that they don't need to take the title off Aries so quick.

Going with that train of thought who would you say should win the BFG series and face Aries, should TNA keep the belt on him to that point?

 

[Fansince1992]

I'd like to think that if Austin Aries did lose the title, the fans would label him a sort of "Peoples Champion" a bit like the Rock was in WWE. Would like to see him hold the title for a stretch but losing it won't do him any harm. He is no longer X-Division. He is Main Event with or without the title.

 

[NotoriousMEAT]

Austin Aries is the new face of Impact Wrestling. I remember reading here on WZ, not sure if it was a forum post or an article, where someone said James Storm is better as a chaser, not actually a champion. And right now I kind of agree. Not to say at some point he wouldn't or shouldn't be champion. But I don't think Austin Aries should be killed to try and push Storm to the level Aries is already at. Besides, I don't like when someone's success is focused on one goal or storyline. James Storm is so hot right now, because everybody wants to see him get revenge on Roode. If that all culminated with a title victory at the biggest show, then where does Storm go after the feud? Are the fans still going to care about him as much as they did when they wanted him to conquer Roode? I say let him get vengeance on Bobby, THEN build him as the next great babyface. That way he can truly stand on his own. I agree with everyone else when I say that Roode vs Storm is practically guaranteed for Bound for Glory, and maybe that's why TNA isn't making it for the title. Spread the wealth. Forget the longest reign in history. What the true judge of someone's star power is, is their ability to make OTHER people stars. And that's what Roode did at Destination X. The more "stars" you have, the more "main event" caliber matches you can put on paper and sell PPV's with. So at BFG, instead of just Roode vs Storm finally concluding with the title on the line.. we'll get Roode vs Storm finally concluding, AND a World Title match. A year long feud between two hot stars, then Aries defending the title against Kurt Angle, or Jeff Hardy, or AJ Styles.. depending on who wins the BFG Series. It's 3 months away with no announced matches, but Bound for Glory already feels like it's going to be a MUST BUY event. Either way.. I'm happy. Alright, done rambling.

 

[Giddy]

Going with that train of thought who would you say should win the BFG series and face Aries, should TNA keep the belt on him to that point?

Kurt Angle or Samoa Joe.

Joe and Aries have feuded in the past, and had great matches, and the build would be good, given their past in other companies and such.

Kurt vs Aries I think would be awesome. Both are great technical wrestlers, and it would be a great veteran vs up and comer feud. We'd get great promos and one hell of a match.

I mean it's not like there's no build up from the crowning of the BFG Series winner and BFG. They could do a nice build up, hell they could start now showing some tension between one of them and Aries early, then come back to it when they win.

 

[Jatkuva]

Honestly now that I analyze things we should have seen this coming, we should have seen Aries winning the title at Destination X, instead of expecting roode to lose it to storm at BFG.
The Fact that Jeff Hardy Pinned Storm the impact before the ppv, and the slow catch up of Joe and the eventual pass at Destination X by beating angle. I think they decided to back aries as champion a week or two before the destination x,and it could have not worked out any better for tna, and they have decided that storm and roode is good enough of a storyline to not be for the title. I think we will see Joe vs. Aeries at BFG for the title and Storm vs roode(probably in a #1 contenders match for Turning point) as another main event on the card.

I think we will see a decent championship reign out of Aeries instead of them flip flopping the title, at least holding onto it until turning point. And honestly I think we are done seeing ex-WWE stars get the belt for a long time as TNA should use this opportunity to showcase there talent and build stars there.

 

[Self High 5]

This is interesting. Essentially, Roode and Aries have to continue feuding for the next couple of months, due to the Bound for Glory Series. Here is my personal opinion (ie the correct opinion ) about what should happen.

1. Roode regains the WHC back at Hardcore Justice
2. Aries wins the title back at a subsequent Impact or at latest - No Surrender (if this were to happen, it would have to be under the BFG series final match on the card). I know this seems a little bit hot-potato, but it's a neccessary evil to keep Aries and Roode strong. Neither needs 2/3 losses on the trot at this time.
3. All the while, BFG rankings remain unpredictable, with lots of twists and turns to keep fans guessing.
4. At No Surrender, BFG series final is between Angle and Storm. Storm has it won, but Roode comes out and costs him the match somehow.
5. Consequently, BFG now has 2 massive matches instead of just 1. Dream WHC match between Aries and Angle (Aries going over, obviously). This will be a fantastic wrestling match. Match number 2 - brutal, bloody, intense grudge match between Storm and Roode, with Storm finally getting redemption.

Compared to Aries, Storm just isn't all that hot with the crowds. He's definately over, but alarm bells were ringing for me when he was being easily out-cheered by Jeff Hardy on their recent Impact match. I'm pretty sure there were even some "Let's go Hardy! Cowboy Sucks!" chants. Storm is a great, deserving competitor, but his winning the WHC from Roode at BFG has kind of been telegraphed and I feel it would be a mistake to go down this route. He's a great chaser, and he'll get his moment eventually, but Aries is far too hot to waste his momentum. I think he should hold the title until at least Lockdown. Great as Storm/Roode are, they've hardly set the ratings alight. Give Aries a try. He has such a buzz with the IWC, it's definately worth a shot.

Storm as champ would be fine, but people will just be waiting for the belt to go back to Aries. Cowboy deserves better than that.

 

[GameOver]

Good thread, and i tend to agree though Edge wasn't crucified by the quick loss it put him on the map and didn't take long for him to get back there, as opposed to say Jack Swagger that won the title then lost it soon after and has gone backwards ever since.

Personally i think Airies winning the title is fine, it certainly wouldn't have been expected by the majority he's a good worker imo but Roode needs to still be booked strong and get the title back sooner then later or it'll make his 1st run pointless and Airies will still be a big thing, chasing or not. As for Storm well he deserves to still win the title, i personally think he's as good a performer as Roode, they both can work the mic and go in the ring, and noone can deny Storm does have that somewhat Shawn Michaels type style but there's the thing, HBK was better when he wasn't the champion, Storm would be the same, he doesn't need the title to be noticed though he should win it several times between now and when he retires.

and i certainly hope that the condition that all future X-Division title holders get a shot at the Impact Title at Destination X doesn't turn out like MITB ie predictable.

 

[thebarber]

um, why does Storm vs Roode have to be for the belt???? Plans change in pro wrestling all of the time, hell if you believe everything we here than Hogan and Sting will be teaming up and wrestlig at Bound for Glory. TNA have ballsed up every hot angle they have ever had, so I thoroughly expect them to mess up Aries obvious hot run he has at present. Roode is the only other guy at present who would be believable as champion. He had a solid what, 8 month reign. Id expect Stprm vs Roode will be left on the backburner whilst Roode gets his ppv rematches. Stoprm is in the BFG Series, so he and Roodes paths may not even cross.

 

[ヒュー　G.　レックション]

1. Roode regains the WHC back at Hardcore Justice
2. Aries wins the title back at a subsequent Impact or at latest - No Surrender (if this were to happen, it would have to be under the BFG series final match on the card). I know this seems a little bit hot-potato, but it's a neccessary evil to keep Aries and Roode strong. Neither needs 2/3 losses on the trot at this time.
3. All the while, BFG rankings remain unpredictable, with lots of twists and turns to keep fans guessing.
4. At No Surrender, BFG series final is between Angle and Storm. Storm has it won, but Roode comes out and costs him the match somehow.
5. Consequently, BFG now has 2 massive matches instead of just 1. Dream WHC match between Aries and Angle (Aries going over, obviously). This will be a fantastic wrestling match. Match number 2 - brutal, bloody, intense grudge match between Storm and Roode, with Storm finally getting redemption.

While I would be perfectly happy with Storm getting the title at BFG, this idea of yours is also very appealing. I'm not keen on the title changing hands that much but the end result, Angle vs Aries and Storm vs Roode would be superb.

 

[IT Factor]

This topic pretty much sums up my fears for Aries' title reign. From the moment he won, I was fully expecting TNA to make him a transitional champion. Probably losing to Roode @ Hardcore Justice to set up Roode vs. Storm BFG title match. Aries is the best thing going for TNA at the moment and having him retain for awhile makes alot more sense in the long run. It'll be matches and feuds with Aries never seen before and make for great matches with fresh opponents. I am a James Storm fan. He could make a challenge for the TNA title at any time in the future after Aries' run is over. For now, I believe Aries should get a good run before losing the title. I'm not actually expecting it, though.

 

[Page_Iommi]

Just my opinion but they put the belt on Aries far, far too quick. Not saying he isn't great, not saying he dosen't have bags of talent but to the casual fan he's been in the company, what, 6 months? And he dethroned the company's longest reigning WHC, it made Roode look weak and it makes the other heavyweight contenders look weak. Hot shotting a guy to the belt always leads to diminished returns, if they don't have that truely strong bond with the audience (the kind you can only get with atleast a year of consistant booking) it makes the title win mean less and it makes them less likely to resonate with the fans in the long term.

Like I said, I'm not knocking the guy but in the mind of the casual fan, who's he beat? A bunch of X Division guys and Roode, he's unproven in the fans mind, and now he's the champ. I would've much rather seen him be built solidly for a atleast a year and a half, work his way up through the X-Division, have guys like Hardy and Anderson put him over, give him a couple good feuds to really establish him, then when he finally won the gold it would've meant so much more to the fans...just my opinion again, but it's a tried and tested theory. So yeah, I worry he could wind up like Edge, or any other MITB winner who didn't have a long, consistant run in that they'll "peter out" in the long term and the way in which they won will hurt the credibility of the belt.

 

[BigLuther]

I don't think there's any way that Storm vs. Roode at BFG is for the belt. I think TNA is finally being smart with pulling the trigger on guys who have serious momentum right now and they aren't going to go away from that this time. I believe that Aries will keep the belt at least until BFG because they know what they have in him. I also think that Joe will win the BFG series and challenge him. He's hotter than he's been in a while and would be the best challenger for him. TNA knows that Aries and Joe have a history and their match at Slammiversary was one of the best on the whole show. Putting them in the main event for the World title is the best possible scenario. Angle would be a fine second choice to win the series, but Aries needs to keep the belt til BFG, regardless.

 

[braveh]

A couple of things that I just can't agree with.

Edge was never the hottest wrestler in the world. Definitely not in 2006. The Lita - Matt Hardy angle was probably his peak in terms of being hot

I'm not so sure that Austin Aries is that hot. Smarks love him but he was ridiculed on another board I'm on for his promo during Slammiversary. Jef Hardy has been taking the back seat for a while but it wouldn't surprise me if he is still the top draw and top merch seller in TNA.

 

[IT Factor]

A couple of things that I just can't agree with.

Edge was never the hottest wrestler in the world. Definitely not in 2006. The Lita - Matt Hardy angle was probably his peak in terms of being hot

Although I can definetely see your point of view here, I have to disagree. At different points in Edge's career, he was the most despised heel in all of WWE. He had brutal matches with everyone from Kurt Angle, to Eddie Guerrero, to Ric Flair[a TLC match, no less]. Edge even made me somewhat open to seeing what Cena could do in their feud, which I didn't think was possible. I actually didn't care too much for his feud with Matt Hardy when he returned after the Lita/Edge controversy. I thought Edge did well without having to get cheap heat from the Hardy situation.

I'm not so sure that Austin Aries is that hot. Smarks love him but he was ridiculed on another board I'm on for his promo during Slammiversary. Jef Hardy has been taking the back seat for a while but it wouldn't surprise me if he is still the top draw and top merch seller in TNA.

I do see your logic here as well. TNA have been screwing up so long that most fans would be happy to see anyone different in the main events. However, you cannot dismiss the ability of Aries and that he paid alot of dues to get where he is. I think most of the naysayers of Austin Aries will be silenced once they see what he is capable of as World Champ. And I didn't really like the guy in the beginning back in 2005 when he had a televised Impact match against AJ Styles[back when TNA first came to Spike]. He has came a long way in his career and improved to the point of deserving his spot.
Honestly, I believe Aries to be way more deserving than Jeff Hardy. Hardy is popular, but, not always reliable. I'd say giving him the TV title would be preferrable to making him TNA World Champ. Aries should get a good run to showcase his talents first and foremost.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

To be fair, Triple H v Cena at the time was probably a bigger draw for something like WrestleMania. And they did give Edge likely the feud of his career during that entire summer when he and Cena went to war for the WWE Championship. Sometimes it is enough to simply elevate a guy into the main event with the belt, and allow for other storylines to keep him there without it. Aries is now officially one of TNA's main event guys - point made, they have faith in him and the fans know it. Now they can literally go anywhere they want with it, and win or lose I don't think his future will be any less bright because of it.

THAT BEING SAID, I still think Destination X was the wrong time to make that title change happen. It should have been a longer build to a Aries/Roode match at Bound for Glory; looks like we're likely not going to get that. The best thing they can do at this point is have Bobby Roode and James Storm fight it out at BFG without the belt in the picture. Their feud and the impending blood bath to follow will be enough to sell the PPV for most wrestling fans, leave the belt on Aries and let him feud with whoever wins the BFG Series Tournament.

Now, that begs the question: if for not James Storm, who wins the Series? Prediction time: AJ Styles is going to hit a heel turn quite soon and be given a major push on Impact Wrestling. I just feel that's where this whole feud with Dixie and Daniels is going; AJ has spent too much time on the good side of the fence, and if this bastard child angle is real the only way I can envision them playing it off is to have AJ eventually turn. Imagine it: AJ turns on his wife, on Dixie Carter, on TNA, and on his bastard child and the woman carrying him/her. Is there any bigger heat than that?

With Storm/Roode at Bound for Glory, and Aries/Styles fighting over the TNA title that really solves all our problems. We get the big pay-off to the year-long feud that started after last year's BFG, and we our fan-favorite Champion in what will probably be match of the year. Problem solved.

 

[GrandSword]

Aries winning the title sure is an exciting but interesting development for TNA. As said TNA had been building up James Storm to be their next big star for almost 12 months now. His shock win over Angle after last year's BFG, his betrayal by his best friend to steal the title (the fact that you would do this to your friend over the belt made the world title mean something, which is why TNA is seen as doing better creatively than WWE at the moment by many on these boards and they started it back when Roode won the title), and then his build up, defeating people left and right, just missing out on winning the belt at Lockdown, defeating the unbeatable Crimson, coming inot he BFG series with big momentum.

Storm was setting the TNA landscape on fire with his Austin like beer gimmick, bad ass cowboy stuff, winning the BFG series with big points... and then along comes Austin Aries.

Aries takes advantage of the cool stipulation of holding the X title, crushing the opposition and then using the X title as a conduit into a title match for the big one. Aries dethrones Roode and now who knows whats going to happen? Which is great. The Greatest man who ever lived, "lived" up to his moniker and became World Champion.

So I've just typed something we already know, however the crowds are really responding to Aries big time. What about Storm? It is hard to gage soemtimes because one thing TNA doesn't do is put it's premier talent on tv every week. On Raw, Bryan, Cena, Punk, Big Shjow, Kane etc. are opne every week. On Impact some weeks Storm is not even on the show. Is it because of the BFG series? Maybe, but Storm's momentum is being stunted a little because of this and Aries win. People are saying that why does Roode/Storm have to be for the title? These guys can just have their blow off match at BFG. However the reason this whole feud exists is because of the belt. The title is a major part of their feud. It is the reason Roode stabbed his friend in the back, and it is the reason that Storm had time off because even though he beat the hell out of Roode inside the cage he did not become Champion.

It is the title that is fuelling the two men's hatred, and therfore this is why although I'm not convinced that taking the title off of Aries will stunt his momentum, but why I think Roode will take back the title (which making him a two time champion, soldifies his Main Event status, his top heel status) and take on Storm where their story will come full circle and Storm will win back the belt.

Aries can then face Storm for the title down the road? And TNA now has another homegrown main eventer to add to Storm and Roode.

 

[HBsam31]

I thought they put the belt on Aries a little to quick. I was hoping for a little more build, but after they did put the belt on him I am left hoping they keep his momentum going. He is definitely hot right now, and I don't want to see the title taken off of him quickly. Roode elevated the title for almost a year, and I would hate to see all his hard work ruined by hot potatoing the title now. Storm and Roode does not have to be for the title. A grudge match bloodbath between the two of them would be just as good. I like another poster's idea of Angle winning the BFG series and facing Aries. That would be nothing but awesome, and would be really great if Aries went over which he should. I really hope they don't stop Aries momentum anytime soon.

 

[Danger Burger]

I have no problem with the decision. I know the whole Storm/Roode is unfinished, but as soon as Aries won the cos started turning in my head and i yelled "THOSE GUYS ARE GENIUSES!!" much to the confusion of the guys I was watching with.

It only makes sense to me to do it. As youve all said, the roode storm match was a foregone conclusion, well heres a curve ball. Maybe Roode holds off his rematch or whatever, maybe it becomes a triple threath match. Id have it cometo a triple threat match where only if the champ is pinned does he loose the belt. Aries wants to defend, Roode want the belt... Storm wants... Which? Could set us up for some very good story telling.

Aries winning the belt doesnt interfere with anything, nor do preset plans mean he has to lose it straight away. If anything, him retaining just makes the whole thing a little more interesting!

 

[MINISTRYrising]

i dont think you will see aries loss the title any time soon. he is so over with the fans at the moment it would be stupid to do that. i personally think that you will see roode vs aries at the next ppv maybe even a triple threat match including storm. but aries will keep the title after which i see him getting involved in this aces and eights story line somehow. i think if you added the world champ to the picture it would add a lot of weight to the story.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Is this 1975? Since when does a winning streak or holding onto the belt get you more over? People cheer and boo characters, not who's booked to win. As long as you're given time, there is no excuse to not get over. Now, if you're the most over guy on the card and they cut your time, that's different. Edge got a great push and a great rub from Foley. If you think holding onto the belt for a long time, AS A HEEL, would have helped Edge, then you're crazy.

Same with Aries. Just give him enough TV time and make him look like a big deal. He doesn't necessarily need the belt and a "lengthy title reign to build credibility" or some other IWC bullshit cliche.

 

[SacredMesa]

Is this 1975? Since when does a winning streak or holding onto the belt get you more over? People cheer and boo characters, not who's booked to win. As long as you're given time, there is no excuse to not get over. Now, if you're the most over guy on the card and they cut your time, that's different. Edge got a great push and a great rub from Foley. If you think holding onto the belt for a long time, AS A HEEL, would have helped Edge, then you're crazy.

Same with Aries. Just give him enough TV time and make him look like a big deal. He doesn't necessarily need the belt and a "lengthy title reign to build credibility" or some other IWC bullshit cliche.

The sad fact is the IWC is only a small part of the modern day wrestling fan base. Those that don't follow the indy scene and develop a connection to these guys and love seeing them when they hit it need something the masses can hang their hat on and say "yeah that's a guy I can get behind." A strong title run is one of the best ways of giving them something to see.

In some cases a strong first title run can easily be what makes and break a superstar, we've seen time and time again those like Jack Swagger get a weak title run and it pretty much ruins their career. Hell even CM Punk got a weak title run and his career took a huge hit that took him a while to come back from.

Title runs matter and strong first title runs are crucial especially when the superstar is as hot as Double A currently is.

 

[MayorMcCheese]

Good thread, and i tend to agree though Edge wasn't crucified by the quick loss it put him on the map and didn't take long for him to get back there, as opposed to say Jack Swagger that won the title then lost it soon after and has gone backwards ever since.

Personally i think Airies winning the title is fine, it certainly wouldn't have been expected by the majority he's a good worker imo but Roode needs to still be booked strong and get the title back sooner then later or it'll make his 1st run pointless and Airies will still be a big thing, chasing or not. As for Storm well he deserves to still win the title, i personally think he's as good a performer as Roode, they both can work the mic and go in the ring, and noone can deny Storm does have that somewhat Shawn Michaels type style but there's the thing, HBK was better when he wasn't the champion, Storm would be the same, he doesn't need the title to be noticed though he should win it several times between now and when he retires.

and i certainly hope that the condition that all future X-Division title holders get a shot at the Impact Title at Destination X doesn't turn out like MITB ie predictable.

Why would Roode's first run be pointless? he had a strong run as champion, if anything beating Roode made Aries look that much more impressive, and made the title look good.

as for BFG, I would like to see Angle/Aries, I think they could have a MOTY type showing, you know Kurt Angle is going to bring it, and you know Aries will want to shine on a big stage