Attitude era bandwagon fans

[AnthonyM4]

One thing I HATED about the attitude era was that it attracted a lot of annoying people that hated wrestling before it. These bandwagon jumpers started watching it because it was the "cool"thing to do. Now that it's kind of died down all these people went away and the ratings are down. Now they are back to insulting wrestling and how uncool it is. Say what you want about the adults who still watch wwe today, but they are true fans that are loyal as opposed to these assholes who used to watch it during the attitude era because "Stone Cold is so cool because he curses" and "Wow there are a lot of hot women in wrestling now". I was in high school when the attitude era happened and one idiot told a teacher that he should watch wwf because it's a cool sitcom.

What did you true wrestling fans think of these people?

Actually my question was what do you think of the people that watched wrestling when it was "cool" in the late 90s and are back to hating it now that it's "uncool" again?

 

[Dynamitekid2012]

What is a true wrestling fan? I absolutely hate terms like these. Anyone that spends money or has potential to spend money on the wrestling business is considered a "mark", which by definition means fan.

Onto your question. Am I upset at the people for not liking wrestling currently? Absolutely not!!!!!!!!! Lets face the facts here. If wrestling isn't drawing people in, then its the product that sucks, not the fans. Its hard to fault people for having the freedom to say what they want about a product they're not interested in. Its one of their rights, and I have 0 issue with any of them sharing their opinion.

 

[D-Man]

What is a true wrestling fan? I absolutely hate terms like these. Anyone that spends money or has potential to spend money on the wrestling business is considered a "mark", which by definition means fan.

Onto your question. Am I upset at the people for not liking wrestling currently? Absolutely not!!!!!!!!! Lets face the facts here. If wrestling isn't drawing people in, then its the product that sucks, not the fans. Its hard to fault people for having the freedom to say what they want about a product they're not interested in. Its one of their rights, and I have 0 issue with any of them sharing their opinion.

But the product IS drawing. If you look at the numbers, big four PPV rates are up, television ratings are consistent (considering that new television channels are being created everyday. Back during the Attitude Era, there weren't hundreds and thousands of channels to tune into. Now, with all of the other choices on TV, people STILL consistently tune into Raw and Smackdown. That's impressive.) Merchandise sales are up. All of these products are doing so well that Titan sports built the WWE Studios section of their conglomerate to make even MORE money for the company. Next year, the WWE will have its own channel on television!

This is why the IWC is viewed as a bunch of know-nothings; because they don't know anything! All of them constantly say that the Attitude Era was the draw and now wrestling is not interesting and doesn't make money. But if they actually sat down for five minutes, broke down numbers, understood inflation, followed new trends, and did realistic comparisons, they'd all realize how successful the WWE still is and would be impressed with how they've flourished even through today.

 

[Lowdown]

The Attitude Era was the big turning point for WWE. It did what it was supposed to do in the long run, which was draw in people that didn't normally watch wrestling. I've loved watching wrestling since I was a kid in the 80's, and even though I'm not into WWE now, I still pull out the DVD collection and watch the Hogan era to the early 2000's. But so what if there's some "bandwagon fans" as you refer to them. Remember the Rock n Wrestling Connection? Bringing in Cyndi Lauper and Mr. T for crossover success? It was no different than what WWE did in the AE, although the latter was more risque. If you still like what you're watching, more power to you.

 

[sdaniel1977]

The Attitude era was a great time for wrestling because in the minds of many it had gone stale. Let's not forget though, wrestling in the 80's was largely regional so the WWF programming wasn't available on a large scale. If you came up in the Southern US like myself you watched the NWA with the Horsemen,Dusty,Magnum,Nikita, and many more. To a lot of folks the 80's was a better era than the attitude era. I mean don't get me wrong the Austin,Rock era was good, but the popularity started in the 1980's.

 

[JeffTheRef]

I agree with D-Man. Everybody always acts like the WWE is a sinking ship..like these huge changes need to be made or else they aren't going to be able to put on shows with more than 100 people in attendance and will eventually fold. The WWE is doing just fine. Just because internet fans over-analyze every single storyline and every single promo, doesn't mean the rest of the wrestling fans are the same.

A lot of people seem to operate under the belief that THEY could do better, even though they have zero years of actual experience. We are always going to be critical of the current product. We are always going to think that it should have been done just a little bit differently. Nobody ever stops to smell the roses, except the people that are able to distance themselves away from the "behind the scenes" aspect of the product long enough to enjoy it.

It's just like when these HUGE Superhero movies come out, and everybody loves it except the die-hard fans who thinks the superhero's boots are the wrong color, and thus the movie was terrible.

 

[obamartins]

But the product IS drawing. If you look at the numbers, big four PPV rates are up, television ratings are consistent (considering that new television channels are being created everyday. Back during the Attitude Era, there weren't hundreds and thousands of channels to tune into. Now, with all of the other choices on TV, people STILL consistently tune into Raw and Smackdown. That's impressive.) Merchandise sales are up. All of these products are doing so well that Titan sports built the WWE Studios section of their conglomerate to make even MORE money for the company. Next year, the WWE will have its own channel on television!

This is why the IWC is viewed as a bunch of know-nothings; because they don't know anything! All of them constantly say that the Attitude Era was the draw and now wrestling is not interesting and doesn't make money. But if they actually sat down for five minutes, broke down numbers, understood inflation, followed new trends, and did realistic comparisons, they'd all realize how successful the WWE still is and would be impressed with how they've flourished even through today.

WWF Royal Rumble 2001 - 625,000
WWF Royal Rumble 2002 - 670,000
WWE Royal Rumble 2003 - 585,000
WWE Royal Rumble 2004 - 500,000
WWE Royal Rumble 2005 - 575,000
WWE Royal Rumble 2006 - 550,000
WWE Royal Rumble 2007 - 491,000
WWE Royal Rumble 2008 - 533,000
WWE Royal Rumble 2009 - 450,000
WWE Royal Rumble 2010 - 462,000
WWE Royal Rumble 2011 - 446,000

I thought you said big four PPV's buyrates were up?

WWF Summerslam 2001 - 565,000
WWE Summerslam 2002 - 520,000
WWE Summerslam 2003 - 465,000
WWE Summerslam 2004 - 415,000
WWE Summerslam 2005 - 650,000
WWE Summerslam 2006 - 541,000
WWE Summerslam 2007 - 537,000
WWE Summerslam 2008 - 477,000
WWE Summerslam 2009 - 369,000
WWE Summerslam 2010 - 350,000
WWE Summerslam 2011 - 301,000

Again i thought you said big four PPV buyrates were up? just to add Powerslam Magazine in UK said this years Summerslam was lowest in 14 years.

WWF Survivor Series 2001 - 450,000
WWE Survivor Series 2002 - 340,000
WWE Survivor Series 2003 - 450,000
WWE Survivor Series 2004 - 325,000
WWE Survivor Series 2005 - 400,000
WWE Survivor Series 2006 - 383,000
WWE Survivor Series 2007 - 341,000
WWE Survivor Series 2008 - 319,000
WWE Survivor Series 2009 - 235,000
WWE Survivor Series 2010 - 244,000

Well done WWE you got you got 9 thousand more buys & your 2nd lowest PPV buys in a decade (it would be more but i can't be bothered to check prior to 2001).


Raw average rating -

1998 - 4.43
1999 - 5.90
2000 - 5.88
2001 - 4.64
2002 - 4.01
2003 - 3.76
2004 - 3.67
2005 - 3.81
2006 - 3.90
2007 - 3.61
2008 - 3.27
2009 - 3.57
2010 - 3.28
2011 - 3.25

2011 is the worst year.....make all the excuses you want WWE sucks & the fact is more people would watch if they liked what they saw. WWE have proved in past people will watch if the product is good. Let's not even talk about Smackdown ratings OH MY GOD are they the shits!


You claim merchandise sales are up yet when i checked the last 4th quarter report this is what i found...Raw vs. Smackdown video game sales down 35% and DVD sales down a whopping 44% compared with 2009.

live event attendance down 15% domestically and 11% internationally, PPV buys down 15%


You then go on about WWE Studios....

The movie division also lost money, losing $1 million in the quarter and $2.7 million for the year as a whole, after Legendary and Knucklehead both did disappointing business.

 

[Rey Azarola]

I have to agree with Dynamitekid2012

As accepting as I'd like to think I am regarding others opinions, it's hard not to get frustrated if you can't follow the logic of his post.

As for D-Man: "But if they actually sat down for five minutes, broke down numbers, understood inflation, followed new trends, and did realistic comparisons....."

You make it sound like this is quick and easy for the average person to do, when in fact most of us wouldn't know where to start.

 

[jnapoli85]

I am actually in school for my MBA right now, and i remember reading something on the wwe a while back. I can't remember where i read it id have to look around but it was basically saying how wwe went from a multi billion dollar company to a multi million dollar company due to a poor product. Let me tell you in business numbers don't lie.

 

[Joeezy^^]

Obamartins, can you provide a source for your information. I highly doubt what your saying.
(D-Man's probably going to break it down for you so I won't do that.)
I will say this though. WWE is at one of its highest peaks since 2005. The creativity is flowing, and everyone is shining bright. I don't think a company that you claim is terrible would be opening up a network so soon.....

 

[D-Man]

Obamartins, can you provide a source for your information. I highly doubt what your saying.
(D-Man's probably going to break it down for you so I won't do that.)
I will say this though. WWE is at one of its highest peaks since 2005. The creativity is flowing, and everyone is shining bright. I don't think a company that you claim is terrible would be opening up a network so soon.....

As much as I appreciate this comment, I can't really debate most of obamartins post. The sources I had showed some different numbers but mostly the same stuff. However, I checked a few other resources (including Slyfox's sticky thread on PPV buys and Financial Information in the General Wrestling Discussion section) and they seem to concur that the total numbers for Summerslam, Survivor Series, and Royal Rumble have faltered a bit.

As for the ratings, I don't think I was understood. I never said ratings didn't fall; I said they stayed consistent with the times of newer channels being created in a much more competitive television market. Viewers have MANY more choices of television to watch nowadays. If the WWE can still keep a good chunk of those viewers, as the prices of other things rise with normal inflation, they will stay afloat just fine.

Lastly, since when have THQ video games been the litmus paper for their total merchandise sales? Cena, Punk, Ryder, Sin Cara, and Mysterio are selling record numbers in their personalized merchandise.

But, my main point that Joeezy mentioned still stands; how can they be losing that much money if they're starting a television network? These are things that typical smarks fail to realize.

And as for the Attitude Era fans that used to love the business and now knock it; it's really easy to point a finger at people who are in the position you USED to be in, especially when you feel that your new position is a step up from what it used to be. I ignore the haters. Fact of the matter is when you mention wrestling to most young adults, most of them will say "Yeah, I watched that stuff back when Stone Cold and the Rock were around." If they make fun of it now, they're just being stupid hypocrites. Once a wrestling fan, always a wrestling fan.

 

[RicoLen]

As one of the guys that has been a fan of pro-wrestling through thick and thin, and was a fan of WCW not the WWF during the Monday Night Wars, I fully understand what the op is talking about here.

See I grew up feeling like being a fan of wrestling was something to be ashamed of because it's "not real," however I stuck with it anyways, and loved it during the 80's and early 90's. The mid-90's were a slump, and that's when I jumped ships to the WCW to see all the guys I grew up knowing and some of the big guys I heard of but never got to see, like Sting, The Steiner Brothers, Lex Lugar, and others.

Then about the time I finished high school suddenly I started to notice all my friends were talking about Austin, Goldberg, Sting, The Rock, Mankind, nWo, etc. and I felt like they were all hypocrites. Where the hell were they back when I was trying to get them interested in Savage, The Hitman, L.O.D., Hogan, Warrior, Flair, and the rest of them? Sure these newer guys were edgier, but we were younger and in the target age group for the earlier guys too, for about 10-15 years or so me and my friends were the target demographics and I loved every bit of it, my friends, only the edgier stuff, and after about 2002 or so, they stopped caring, while I kept on for a few more years before my life just got too busy (with marriage, & kids), and yet still, I came back, and all those guys I grew up with and am STILL in contact with? They don't care.

They were attitude era fans. They're my best friends, it's not like I don't respect their choice in it, but I certainly don't consider them real fans of pro-wrestling. So when I hear guys talk about how great the attitude era was, but they hate guys like Hogan & Warrior & Slaughter, Big Bossman, Andre the Giant, Randy Savage, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Bret Hart, and just about anyone else that made a name for themselves before the attitude era became mainstream, AND at the exact same time they also hate on all the guys now, no, I don't respect them as fans. I can respect them as people just fine, but to me, their opinions just don't matter, because they're nothing but fair-weather fans.

I've done my fair share of hating on the 2005-current generation, but even I can see that things ARE in fact getting better, a lot better. I've even found a couple of guys who I really think have a shot of becoming some of my alltime favorite superstars, superstars that span all the different generations of my life.

Hell, he may not be in my top ten, but I've just recently started developing a major liking for Haystacks Calhoun. That f**ker was cool, he was Yokozuna & Hillbilly Jim in one, it also helped me appreciate the nickname Stephen King uses for a lot of the fat kids in his books (most notably "IT") when he calls them Haystacks.

 

[obamartins]

Obamartins, can you provide a source for your information. I highly doubt what your saying.
(D-Man's probably going to break it down for you so I won't do that.)
I will say this though. WWE is at one of its highest peaks since 2005. The creativity is flowing, and everyone is shining bright. I don't think a company that you claim is terrible would be opening up a network so soon.....

Is WWE's official quater earnings reports good enough for you? available on WWE corperate.....

As for the ratings i got the averages from Gerweck.net

Vast majority of my comment was based on fact. It always annoys me when people like you chime in despite fact you took no time to do any research yourself.....but what the hell ill let you off as im so used to it now.

WWE is successful, they are a monster but business is down & the product is not good (at least IMO yet the numbers reflect my opinion is correct).

Im not gonna get into it but WWE is so out of touch.


In response to D-Man regarding some different numbers here is an example

WWE Royal Rumble 2004 - 500,000 (582,000 buys on 30th June 2005)
WWE No Way Out 2004 - 265,000 (566,000 buys on 30th June 2005)
WWE Wrestlemania 20 - 885,000 (886,000 buys on 30th June 2005)
WWE Backlash 2004 - 295,000 (590,000 buys on 30th June 2005)
WWE Judgment Day 2004 - 235,000 (220,000 buys on 7th September 2005)
WWE Bad Blood 2004 - 290,000 (264,000 buys on 7th September 2005)
WWE Great American Bash 2004 - 238,000 (233,000 buys on 7th September 2005)
WWE Vengeance 2004 - 240,000 (232,000 buys on 7th September 2005)
WWE Summerslam 2004 - 415,000 (387,000 buys on 1st December 2005)
WWE Unforgiven 2004 - 239,000 (243,000 buys on 1st December 2005)
WWE No Mercy 2004 - 183,000 (193,000 buys on 1st December 2005)
WWE Taboo Tuesday - 174,000
WWE Survivor Series 2004 - 325,000 (373,000 buys on 23rd February 2005)
WWE Armageddon 2004 - 230,000 (242,000 buys on 23rd February 2005)

As you can see the PPV buys increase/decease in different quarter earning reports.....obviously as time goes on more accurate information becomes available

 

[RicoLen]

Is WWE's official quater earnings reports good enough for you? available on WWE corperate.....

As for the ratings i got the averages from Gerweck.net

Vast majority of my comment was based on fact. It always annoys me when people like you chime in despite fact you took no time to do any research yourself.....but what the hell i let you off as im so used to it now.

WWE is successful, they are a monster but business is down & the product is not good (at least IMO yet the numbers reflect my opinion is correct).

Im not gonna get into it but WWE is so out of touch.

You realize that just in general business is down?

"The product is not good" & "WWE is so out of touch." are just opinions.

With the economic downturn I don't see any way you can prove the point that the product is the reason for their problems.

Fact is, if you look at WWE over it's history, you see that it has it's highs and it's lows and it has a lot more to do with pop culture than it does business. It's sparked by a product downturn almost always, but long after the product rights itself it's stuck waiting for pop culture to get a clue.

 

[fungule]

You realize that just in general business is down?

"The product is not good" & "WWE is so out of touch." are just opinions.

With the economic downturn I don't see any way you can prove the point that the product is the reason for their problems.

Fact is, if you look at WWE over it's history, you see that it has it's highs and it's lows and it has a lot more to do with pop culture than it does business. It's sparked by a product downturn almost always, but long after the product rights itself it's stuck waiting for pop culture to get a clue.

Are you serious? "Fact is..." Haha, no fact is what obamartins posted. Those are real numbers. You're seriously going to blame the economy for that huge decline? How come the NFL seems to keep improving year after year in this economy? Also I fail to see how the economy is to blame for Raw ratings going down. I guess wrestling fans can't afford cable anymore, what a shame.

Take the blinders off, myself and several others are tuning out because the product is JUST THAT BAD. Attitude era be damned, this is about the current product. I'd love to go back to watching Raw every week and ordering PPV's, but really there is nothing that is drawing me. I did return to regular viewing around the CM Punk storyline but my god was that horribly handled.

 

[GrandSword]

First of all I think a lot of the numbers are down because you can stream, download whatever ppvs, latest dvd etc... while you can't download a t-shirt or merch. So if WWE's merch is up, than that might be a true indicator as to how popular the latest "era" of WWE is. It may not bring in as much money as ppvs etc. but the sales of things that can't be digitally stolen could give a better refernce on how the company is going. However ratings I guess are the issue...

Now that I've said that I'll say this...


The thing about the Attitude Era that I always thought was the reason behind it's big numbers were the many different superstars you could support or boo.

What I mean by this is all the top guys could beat each other, there wasn't just Cena to hang your hat on.

The Undertaker was as dominant as he is today, but Hart could beat him, Austin, Mankind, Michaels, the Rock... but can anyone beat him today? Although Austin was booked like superman back in the AE, he still could be beaten by a number of guys. They were on his level.. and the fans could support these top guys. Now there is only really Cena and I guess Orton to an extent (he hasn't been Super-Orton really since he was defeated by Miz).

So people would watch for Austin vs. McMahon, but stay for the Rock, Triple H, the Undertaker vs. Kane, the TLC matches etc.

Right now Cena is the man, and this isn't a Cena thread, just an observaion on that WWE need to make more Cenas. More guys that can beat the Undertaker, more guys that can beat Cena, can beat Orton.

Del Rio, Sheamus, Barrett, even Brodus Clay need to be pushed big time. Cena became WWE Champion within the first two years of career and hasn't looked back. The same can be done for these guys. WWE needs more guys that can be as strong as a Cena and/ or an Orton to bring in more fans and make people care.

 

[obamartins]

You realize that just in general business is down?

"The product is not good" & "WWE is so out of touch." are just opinions.

With the economic downturn I don't see any way you can prove the point that the product is the reason for their problems.

Fact is, if you look at WWE over it's history, you see that it has it's highs and it's lows and it has a lot more to do with pop culture than it does business. It's sparked by a product downturn almost always, but long after the product rights itself it's stuck waiting for pop culture to get a clue.

As i said i don't want to get into it. But i will elborate a little.

WWE is not in tune with pop culture is it? but it could be! however they are so stuck in their ways & are hell bent on this pollitically correct PG direction.

Yes the economy plays apart but it's also just an excuse.....look at UFC they are in tune with pop culture & business is booming.

The manner in which the shows are presented must be addressed. Either take the show, and re-design the pacing, the formatting, even the way the main events are announced and promoted...or change the atmosphere of it to accommodate the pop culture-desirous fanbase that is flocking away from pro wrestling.

It's time for the writing and production staffs that advise Vince to re-acquaint themselves with what popular movements are taking place before WWE further victimises itself by appearing to be out of touch.

Lastly yes IMO the product is terrible.

 

[RicoLen]

As i said i don't want to get into it. But i will elborate a little.

WWE is not in tune with pop culture is it? but it could be! however they are so stuck in their ways & are hell bent on this pollitically correct PG direction.

Yes the economy plays apart but it's also just an excuse.....look at UFC they are in tune with pop culture & business is booming.

The manner in which the shows are presented must be addressed. Either take the show, and re-design the pacing, the formatting, even the way the main events are announced and promoted...or change the atmosphere of it to accommodate the pop culture-desirous fanbase that is flocking away from pro wrestling.

It's time for the writing and production staffs that advise Vince to re-acquaint themselves with what popular movements are taking place before WWE further victimises itself by appearing to be out of touch.

Lastly yes IMO the product is terrible.

Nah, you know what? To hell with pop-culture, fair weather fans should never be catered to IMO. That's like a football fan that jumps from bandwagon to bandwagon based on who's winning the superbowl. Screw them.

BTW UFC is a sport, and that gets attention from Vegas. WWE does not. Unless you're Bobby Heenan, apparently he bets on wrestling. lol

Also, what's so PG/PC about the product as it stands today (not 2 years ago, but today)?

As for the formatting, that does sound like a good idea.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I would say this. It's not like the product these days is not good, because as figures prove, it's doing rather well. You cannot really compare the ratings of the past eras with this era because the society has changed, the amount of television programming available has changed, what people want to see has gone an upheaval. The last I checked, Raw was still one of the most watched weekly shows on American television which proves that Raw is still managing to hold it's own in this era.

Without going into the figures though, I would say that Attitude Era was still a better time from a business point of view than this present era. Why? Because everyone would agree that it was an era that drew those people into wrestling who generally would have had nothing to do with wrestling. You can talk all about being a REAL wrestling fan on the internet but what talks infinite times louder than you is money and these fans made the WWE a ton of money in that era. They watched, enjoyed and contributed to the business at some point of time and therefore they are as much entitled to having an opinion about it as you are. There is, in fact, nothing like a true wrestling fan or any dumb shit of that sort. What makes you a better fan anyway? That you watched every single era and bitched about it on the internet? Or that you are bitching about an era that was so financially successful? Both of these things make you look like an idiot more than anything else.

Moral of the story: This era does not suck but niether as a result of some idiotic revisionist history is the opinion true that the Attitude Era fans suck or some shit of that sort. They have every right to say that they think that today's product sucks and they do not prefer watching it. It's not a general opinion by any means and the business that WWE does these days is ample proof of that fact.

 

[Trill Co$by]

People who stand behind PPV buyrates and TV Ratings are ******ed, especially in today's world. Even in the case of the NFL, a lot of games are watched via stream, therefore a lot of their views are ALSO down in terms of ratings. With the internet and growth of multimedia, there's not really any reason to believe that "ratings" is supposed to indicate how many watch a week and how many don't.

Then there's the dreaded Nielson rating which is also inaccurate because they ESTIMATE numbers, so at times they can pull numbers lower than the actual rating. And in case you don't know how their rating system works, let me explain it.

First, Nielson adds up all the homes with a nielson box (this comes with a lot of digital cable and satellite boxes). Then from those boxes, they find out how many televisions are watching a certain show. From that, they add an average of household people and FALSELY assume that everyone in the house is watching the same show. Therefore, numbers can increase or decrease, because we all know that the number of people in a house varies from family to family.

With the PPV buyrates, I've explained that one. Not to mention, as many people like to point out, WWE now offers 13 PPVs a year instead of 12 or even six... this means that instead of 600,000 people watching a limited amount of ppvs, there are now more pay per views to choose from, so in the long run and at the end of the quarter or year, the amount of money MADE is what you go by.

Another point is in fact the economy. Even in the NFL, as someone went back to, merchandise and other "special team" related gear sales are on the decline because most of the average class people don't have the money to buy all the equipment. Sure, a lot of sports are still doing quite well in the revenue department... but at the same time, to say that they're profiting the same as they were years ago is false... especially since a lot of fans are turning off of the "new rulebooks" being placed in some sports.

So in the end, as someone said before, the only true indicator of how well WWE or any business is doing is to look at merchandise sales. Sure, more people might not be buying SvR 2011 this month or last month, but that's because it had a very successful launch of more than 50 Million units sold world wide and over 10 Million spent on downloadable content for the game. Add in the sales of stars like Cena, CM Punk, Randy Orton, Sin Cara, Zack Ryder, and many other stars... as well as the amount of money made from movies and live show events, you'll definitely see that WWE is doing way better than "just fine". If anything, I'd say WWE is one of the most successful businesses in America... and even the world... today.

After all, making 142.6 Million in revenue by on the second quarter of 2011 is totally not "just fine".

---

As for the main topic at hand here, I understand completely what the OP was trying to say. Attitude era fans have this cliche excuse that "nothing is the same anymore" and more times than not, those same fans aren't even watching the product. The only reason why the attitude era was cool was because they originated heavy swearing and vulgar language or television. However, in case people forget, the decline of the Attitude era came when more and more people were beginning to mimic what they saw in WWE because it was as cartoonish as Looney Toons.

Fans who say stopped watching after attitude era and call themselves "true fans" really annoy me. I will agree with the OP that there are "true fans" and "bandwagon fans". Not just for the attitude era, but for wrestling in general... IMO a true fan will always be a fan no matter what. For example, I may not be as diehard about Tennessee Titans as I was before I saw the Ravens, but I still back them whenever I see them play.

 

[This Is My Name Thank You]

I think Buy's for PPV's are done because they are too expensive for everyone to buy them on monthly basis. Also, the WWE was only focusing on the main two titles the WWE and WHC so the lackluster builds for PPV's has turned people away from buying them.

I also think that the attitude era did a good job of building up the titles and not basing PPV's around the main title. They built up all the titles and they all were used in feuds with interest. Until recently the WWE has lacked this part of their show were every title holder was in a meaning full feud or somewhat meaning full feud. I believe WWE realized they lost this touch with and is now realizing people want to see this besides just a storyline about the WWE or WHC title.

The attitude era was awesome with great feuds to them, awesome matches with insane spots to gain peoples attentions. This in my opinion drew people to watch only for the violence which you have to admit people like to watch violence. Then when the WWE wanted to go back to the PG format it turned away the bandwagon viewers and left the people who actually enjoy wrestling watching. I talk to a few friends and when I mention wrestling they always say "you still watch wrestling." I ask them why they don't watch it anymore. Their response is usually it is lame, not enough violence and the wrestlers are bland and boring. This is true, as I agree with what they say but, I tell them it isn’t the violence it is the wrestling part that makes wrestling awesome.

I give the attitude era its props because the TV 14 rating allowed for more dangerous and extreme wrestling. Also, it allowed for characters to be more aggressive and to do more with a wider guideline to be more creative with it. I think it is harder for a wrestler in the PG era to actually become a character because he has to appeal to the PG guidelines.

So, I can say the Attitude Era was badass but I enjoy today’s WWE just as much as I did back then

 

[RicoLen]

Are you serious? "Fact is..." Haha, no fact is what obamartins posted. Those are real numbers. You're seriously going to blame the economy for that huge decline?

Not completely but partly, yes. It would be stupid to say it didn't have anything to do it. Because of that you can't tell what is what.

How come the NFL seems to keep improving year after year in this economy? Also I fail to see how the economy is to blame for Raw ratings going down. I guess wrestling fans can't afford cable anymore, what a shame.

NFL is a sport, completely different from entertainment. WWE just mimics a sport.

Ratings go down for many reasons. But you know something? When you get out of the loop and get to the point where you don't know anyone on the roster, it's hard to give a crap about anything they do. To get back into it you have to have an open mind, and out of touch cynics are anything BUT open minded.

I'd love to go back to watching Raw every week and ordering PPV's, but really there is nothing that is drawing me. I did return to regular viewing around the CM Punk storyline but my god was that horribly handled.

Then do it, and quit expecting instant gratification, and be patient. I swear to god (women will back me up here) men are so f**king stupid when it comes to being patient and waiting for the big payoff, they want what they want right now and anything but getting exactly what you want right now is proof that things are horribly handled.

CM Punk is going to be WWE champion, and he's going to be one of the biggest drawing ever, but they need to build it up. He's not out of the limelight, he's purposely getting shoved to the sidelines so that he can get outraged and his fans will get outraged with him and then once he finally does get the title everyone will mark the f**k out.

Just face it, you're out of touch with what's going on, you don't watch anymore, so you have no invested interest in seeing any midcard talent make it, no interest in seeing anyone new come up. Yet that's exactly what you had to do in the attitude era, all the old guys were gone just like today, and they're all working together to make names for each other. This is 1997 all over again. And you're missing out because you want to see all the old guys back.

That's the exact mistake I made during the attitude era and instead I went to WCW and missed out on the rise of all the big stars of that era. Quit being so close minded and cynical, and watch, really watch, not just for a week, but for a few months, at least three, and if you don't have at least 3-5 guys you REALLY like then you can complain legitimately.

 

[Why Always Me]

From what I have read from various sources (and I don't claim it all to be accurate), ratings, profits, live attendance and ppv buyrates were better during the Attitude Era.

From watching the weekly shows of Raw and Smackdown and the PPV's, it's obvious that live attendance was better during the Attitude Era. Pretty much every show was sold out and rating seemed to be in the 5's to 6's range, whereas now they are around about the 3 mark.

Every month after a ppv it is always seems to be reported that Vince is unhappy with the buyrate, and have seen quite a few photos from Smackdown taping with half empty arenas, that never happened during the Attitude Era.

The only way I could see the WWE make more money now is through John Cena merchandise (kids love him) and the fact that they can run lots of house shows due to the split rosters. Apart from that I cant see really how the WWE do better now than they did in the Attitude Era.

Please bear in mind the above is just my observation only, I haven't researched it

 

[poppycock]

I don't have a problem with anybody who watches WWE as far as jumping on any bandwagon goes. I have been watching WWE from 1992 up until now with only a couple years break around 2007-2008. I don't see myself as anymore of a real wrestling fan than sombody who watched only during the Attitude Era and now complains. Everybody has the right to watch the product when and how they please and everybody has the right to complain or praise when they see fit. I love WWE as much as anybody but I know people watch it who have been doing so since it began...does that make them more of a fan than me? No, not in my eyes.

The Attitude Era was brilliant... I disagree with anybody who dismisses peoples love for the era as nostalgia because it is more than that. It was a great time for WWE. Great storylines, characters, creative ideas. It had bad points as almost everything does. I don't want to see it come back in exactly the same form because that would be boring. TNA in my opinion can be pretty decent at times...when it's being TNA...When it's being an Attitude Era throwback it's not so good and just seems to be going through motions.I think the whole Era was perfect for it's time...it fit just right with what was going on outside the WWE and outside wrestling. Most things that mimmick things from the past that were revolutionary at the time just seem to be horrible dilluted versions of a once great thing and outdated. The WWE needs to find something new that is just as exciting and I really feel that the direction they are heading right now will eventually get us to that place. I can understand why people who perhaps only knew the Attitude Era style of WWE would be down on what the WWE has been offering over recent years. Creativity has or should I say was almost not there for a while... the wrestlers where boring compared to any era not just the Attitude era...everything revolved around the Title and nothing else was given much thought.

I think things are changing and can see a load of potential in todays roster and creative idea....still has a way to go but I am optimistic more than than I have been for a while. It all boils down to opinions and everybody is allowed an opinion.

 

[Larry]

A fan is a fan, and they all come and go. Some stick around, such is life. One isn't better than the other, however some may be more loyal to the industry and others may not, makes no difference.

As long as we are addressing the issues with the WWE in this thread, I think the main issue is that there aren't as many real stars now as there were in yesteryear, and how to make them is where the WWE may be out of touch now. In the attitude era the answer was simple: No more good guy vs bad guy, Hogan Era cartoon characters, the anti-hero is what people want. Now, it's not as easy as it seems. Tastes have changed, times have changed, the market has changed, the pulse is harder to read now.

You have a very vocal and divided IWC, and the rest of the crowd that isn't giving as much feedback. So, the only thing you have to go off of if you're the WWE is buy rates, merch sales, ratings. They can try to cater to the IWC but I think it's safe to say the IWC is never and will never be satisfied. It's a million talking heads all saying different things, how do you cater to that? When and if you try, you run the risk of alienating the rest of the crowd, so what do you do? You do the best you can, and I think the WWE is for the most part.

I think the bottom line is that they need to figure out how to make more stars, how to get more people over. If and when they can do that, business may pick up more, but you can't ignore that the national and world economy, as well as online streaming is taking it's toll here as well. It's not one thing or the other but a mix of things, most of which are not within the WWE's control. They are doing the best they can and I think doing rather well comparatively to a lot of other businesses and entertainment venues.

To answer a question from earlier, someone asked how the WWE is launching their network next year. It was reported on WrestleZone I believe, that the WWE is taking out a 200 million dollar loan against it's assets and net worth to launch this thing. It's a big gamble but they were able to get a good loan atm, so they took it and are going to ride it out. We shall see.