Abortion

[HBK-aholic]

I dont see how its off topic?? you asked me those questions, as part of the debate, and I answered them for you no??? Simple enough.

I was saying I was being off-topic in saying I respected you, not that you were being off topic in answering the questions I asked.

And she shouldve thought of HER body BEFORE there was someone elses body growing inside of it. fairly simple as well. There needs to be a consent law, for the father, simular to a custody case. Im fairly sure the child wants to live. If the father wants it, and is able to take care of it, the woman shouldnt have the almighty power to tell me that my child doesnt get to live.

And you shouldn't have the almighty power to control a womans body for nearly a year, and that's without all the things that happen to her body after birth. Just because she consented to sex with you, doesn't mean she's consenting to you controlling her body after that period.

There will never be a law saying the male should have a choice in this also. I mean as I said, I think you should get a say when talking to the woman. And if the two had sex surely they should have good communication in being able to talk about it. But legally he shouldn't have a say, it's still her body and she has a right to do what she likes with it.

Finally, have you seen how long custody battles go on for? A lot longer than the 24 week time period a woman has to get an abortion. And all it would cause is the man getting his way in her not being able to get an abortion.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Apparently I'm the only person on this entire board who's ever heard of the novel concept of "pulling out".

Stay with me here, cause it might fly in the asinine logic that some people seem to be throwing out here. When a guy is about to cum? He pulls his dick out. Problem solved; you can not practice contraception and not get pregnant at the same time. Amazing huh?

Come on Jake, how many damn pornos have you seen in your life? 12, 13 thousand? Why am I the first one to mention this?

Because that's one of the worst ways to prevent pregnancy short of using nothing at all.

Ever heard of pre-cum? That still has thousands of sperm in it, waiting to get her pregnant. It's completely unreliable and definately should never be used as a contraception method on it's own. Plus there's some guys who may forget at the last minute, or just not pull out. Looking at it, I don't think anyone should practice this and say they're practising safe sex.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

just so the guy could get his way and she wouldnt get the abortion?? Which wouldve been the point in my case??? LOL Obviously there would be a time limit on it. They check to see if the male is fit to be a father, background, and finacially. thats it. take about a week. You will have the child, and he will keep it. period. This still leaves your cases of rape, and unwanted children totally open to decision. The male doesnt want it, she doesnt want it, then legally there ya go. but the male should have a say for his child.

and obviously is she cant keep control of her own body without killing others children, then maybe someone SHOULD control if for her no?? I dont know about all this controlling ones body stuff....its not...its u will be pregnant and deliver this child...and its not a year, its nine months...So her being pregnant for 9 months > my childs entire life, and my life being fucked up becuase she didnt feel like being pregnant (becuase thats what it was about....she didnt want the "hassle" of being pregnant...she was rather apathetic about the whole thing)

Its a GOOD thing she didnt end up being pregnant, becuase is she wouldve done that, she wouldnt have HAD "HER" body to have rights for anymore. Becuase I wouldve killed that bitch.

And XFear, as usual, you da man. pulling out is the best

 

[X]

Because that's one of the worst ways to prevent pregnancy short of using nothing at all.

Are you kidding me? Been doing it for YEARS. Have yet to impregnate a single woman.

Ever heard of pre-cum?

I don't know, considering I have a dick, I'd probably say that's a stupid question.

That still has thousands of sperm in it, waiting to get her pregnant.

The odds of pregnancy are not nearly as high as you seem to think. A few drops of semen is not going to impregnate a woman the vast majority of the time.

It's completely unreliable and definately should never be used as a contraception method on it's own.

I said rather clearly that it wasn't a form of contraception, and your claims of it being unreliable are pretty ridiculious considering that you're what---16 years old? Have you ever even had sex? You're going to sit here and tell me that something I've done for quite a while is unreliable? Tell that to my ex-girlfriend with whom I did this on a regular basis without ever impregnating her.

Plus there's some guys who may forget at the last minute, or just not pull out.

Which is why you don't have sex with a douchebag. Easy logic.

Looking at it, I don't think anyone should practice this and say they're practising safe sex.

I never claimed it was safe sex or contraception, I claimed it was an easy solution to the debate about consenting to unprotected sex being equivalent to consenting to pregnancy, because there are ways around it.

 

[HBK-aholic]

just so the guy could get his way and she wouldnt get the abortion?? Which wouldve been the point in my case??? LOL Obviously there would be a time limit on it. They check to see if the male is fit to be a father, background, and finacially. thats it. take about a week. You will have the child, and he will keep it. period. This still leaves your cases of rape, and unwanted children totally open to decision. The male doesnt want it, she doesnt want it, then legally there ya go. but the male should have a say for his child.

A week? Are you being serious? Each year there are 180,000 abortions in england and Wales alone. If each and every one of them had to go the courts just to be granted an abortion it'd take a lot longer than a week.

and obviously is she cant keep control of her own body without killing others children, then maybe someone SHOULD control if for her no?? I dont know about all this controlling ones body stuff....its not...its u will be pregnant and deliver this child...and its not a year, its nine months...So her being pregnant for 9 months > my childs entire life, and my life being fucked up becuase she didnt feel like being pregnant (becuase thats what it was about....she didnt want the "hassle" of being pregnant...she was rather apathetic about the whole thing)

How many times do I have to say this? Abortion is NOT killing children, it's not even close. I mean, do you class people who kidnap children and then kill them on the same ground as a woman who has had abortion?

The pregnancy lasts for 9 months. But her body recovers a long time after that both mentally and physically.

This girl you know seems very immature, but this isn't the case for all women.

Its a GOOD thing she didnt end up being pregnant, becuase is she wouldve done that, she wouldnt have HAD "HER" body to have rights for anymore. Becuase I wouldve killed that bitch.

And these are the men who say abortion should be illegal...Seriously it's pathetic. "Well..abortions wrong because that's murder..but hey let's go kill someone who's had an abortion"

And XFear, as usual, you da man. pulling out is the best

And you wonder why girls you've slept with have pregnancy scares?

 

[HBK-aholic]

Are you kidding me? Been doing it for YEARS. Have yet to impregnate a single woman.



The odds of pregnancy are not nearly as high as you seem to think. A few drops of semen is not going to impregnate a woman the vast majority of the time.

Oh really? So should I tell you now that 27% of women who use this method alone end up pregnant? And that increases to 31% in teenagers.

This method is estimated to have a 27% failure rate annually among typical users. That means that every year, over 1 in 4 people using withdrawal as their only method of birth control will get pregnant....Withdrawal has a 31% annual failure rate for teens.

I said rather clearly that it wasn't a form of contraception, and your claims of it being unreliable are pretty ridiculious considering that you're what---16 years old? Have you ever even had sex? You're going to sit here and tell me that something I've done for quite a while is unreliable? Tell that to my ex-girlfriend with whom I did this on a regular basis without ever impregnating her.

My sexual history matters here? Idon't think so. And at the age of 16, I'm smart enough to research methods of contraception, you seem unable to. And don't call my 'claims' ridiculous, as I've just shown you proof they're not.

I never claimed it was safe sex or contraception, I claimed it was an easy solution to the debate about consenting to unprotected sex being equivalent to consenting to pregnancy, because there are ways around it.

Please, if I relied on the pull out method as a way to not get pregnant I'd expect to be pregnant pretty soon. With things like this going around is it any wonder so many abortions do take place?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

"I am wooomaaan hereee me roaarrr"

cmon X. you know the words....

You always get so fired up about this Becca. Firstly, I was just being a dick, and saying pulling out is fun. didnt say that was the only form of contraception I use. far from it. In fact ive NEVER had sex when the girl wasnt AT LEAST on the pill, and in fact I have NEVER busted inside of a chick without a condom on. so at the VERY LEAST every girl ive had sex with, there was AT LEAST Birth control, and me pulling out involved. so dont make silly assumptions.

And if someone killed YOUR child, then you wouldnt want to kill them?? Thats what your telling me?? Children have innocence. That child did NOTHING to deserve being killed, or even created in the first place. So dont make ridiculous comparisons like that. So the fact that ive killed terrorists in a war gives me no right to say that people shouldnt kill inocent children?? becuase thats the exact comparison your making here. Just becuase I feel innocents shouldnt be killed, doesnt mean I cant have the opinion that killers shouldnt be killed.

And it was a joke anyway.

And the week timeframe is per abortion, that is brought forth by a party. not every abortion ever, obviously.

 

[HBK-aholic]

"I am wooomaaan hereee me roaarrr"

cmon X. you know the words....

You always get so fired up about this Becca.

I get fired up about it because I don't want my rights taking away from me, when women worked hard to get them in the first place. I'm fine with people who believe abortion is wrong, and would never get one whatever the circumstances. It's the people who campaign for it to be illegal I have a problem with. People have differences in opinions which is fine, but when someone tries to force their opinion on me that's when I'll say something. I'm not forcing anyone to get an abortion, but they could be forcing me not to.

Firstly, I was just being a dick, and saying pulling out is fun. didnt say that was the only form of contraception I use. far from it. In fact ive NEVER had sex when the girl wasnt AT LEAST on the pill, and in fact I have NEVER busted inside of a chick without a condom on. so at the VERY LEAST every girl ive had sex with, there was AT LEAST Birth control, and me pulling out involved. so dont make silly assumptions.

It wasn't exactly an assumption when you actually came out and said that method was fun. However if you were joking, I apologise.

And if someone killed YOUR child, then you wouldnt want to kill them?? Thats what your telling me?? Children have innocence. That child did NOTHING to deserve being killed, or even created in the first place. So dont make ridiculous comparisons like that. So the fact that ive killed terrorists in a war gives me no right to say that people shouldnt kill inocent children?? becuase thats the exact comparison your making here. Just becuase I feel innocents shouldnt be killed, doesnt mean I cant have the opinion that killers shouldnt be killed.

And it was a joke anyway.

What I'm trying to say is that having an abortion and murdering a child are 2 different things. If someone murdered my child I'd want them dead. If a woman had an abortion, it's her choice to do so.

And the week timeframe is per abortion, that is brought forth by a party. not every abortion ever, obviously.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. But come on, do you believe that with the governments how they are they could get through a case like that in a week? I'm being practical here, you'd go on a waiting list which would take quite a while to clear up, and then what? In theory it works in practice it wouldn't.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I never once said it should be illegal. I said the womans word shouldnt be the end all, be all of the situation, so situations like mine wouldnt happen. And yes, I do consider it murder, and wouldve considered that woman to have murdered my child. It was created, and wouldnt been my child, and she killed it. so she killed my child.

And I dont see how it would take so long. does the girl want it?? no. does the man want it? yes. can he take care of it financially? yes. does his background check look good? yes. done. that took me roughly 26 seconds to decide.

 

[X]

Oh really? So should I tell you now that 27% of women who use this method alone end up pregnant? And that increases to 31% in teenagers.

I read the article you cited, and found it humorous that you forgot to mention that the failure rate drops closer to around 4-10% if the man simply washes his penis before having sex, something most people do when they take a shower, which I hope everyone here takes atleast once a day. Thus, staying clean and using the method of withdrawal has a failure rate that is only slightly higher then the failure rate of using a condom or other contraceptive device. How is this such a terrible idea again?

My sexual history matters here? Idon't think so.

When you're trying to inform me of the inner details of removing the penis before ejaculating and this is something that you've never had any experience in what so ever, versus my six or so years of doing exactly that? Are you kidding me here? You can't teach someone the inner workings of how to sail if you've never been sailing, pretty simple analogy there.

And at the age of 16, I'm smart enough to research methods of contraception, you seem unable to. And don't call my 'claims' ridiculous, as I've just shown you proof they're not.

Your "proof" was presented in a pretty biased form, and the website you gave me as proof offers no resources whatsoever on where they attain their information from. That's some pretty weak proof you've got there.

Please, if I relied on the pull out method as a way to not get pregnant I'd expect to be pregnant pretty soon.

If you did so in the uneducated manner in which you seem to think I've been practicing it, then you probably would. Doesn't change the fact that this method has yet to produce a pregnancy a good 6 years on now. Pretty effective thing it is.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I never once said it should be illegal. I said the womans word shouldnt be the end all, be all of the situation, so situations like mine wouldnt happen. And yes, I do consider it murder, and wouldve considered that woman to have murdered my child. It was created, and wouldnt been my child, and she killed it. so she killed my child.

You might not, many other people do. And seeings as you've said youdon't want it illegal, does that mean you want it legal? It's just with all your arguments, before this one you've seemed very against abortion.

And I dont see how it would take so long. does the girl want it?? no. does the man want it? yes. can he take care of it financially? yes. does his background check look good? yes. done. that took me roughly 26 seconds to decide.

Once more, fine in theory, not that easy in real life. You can decide those things about yourself, not exactly what a court will know. It'd take weeks at least for them to investigate. Each week, in England they'd have to take care of nearly 4000 of these cases. When you look at the numbers like that, it seems more realistic that it won't just happen.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I read the article you cited, and found it humorous that you forgot to mention that the failure rate drops closer to around 4-10% if the man simply washes his penis before having sex, something most people do when they take a shower, which I hope everyone here takes atleast once a day. Thus, staying clean and using the method of withdrawal has a failure rate that is only slightly higher then the failure rate of using a condom or other contraceptive device. How is this such a terrible idea again?

Because this thread is people complaining about abortion, yet you're suggesting one of the least reliable ways to stop pregnancy. Even that 4-10% is a lot compared to condoms or the pill. And that same website says 4% risk ONLY in perfected cases. You may have perfected it, many others haven't and won't. So it may be fine for you, but it's irresponsible to show as a good way to stop pregnancy.

When you're trying to inform me of the inner details of removing the penis before ejaculating and this is something that you've never had any experience in what so ever, versus my six or so years of doing exactly that? Are you kidding me here? You can't teach someone the inner workings of how to sail if you've never been sailing, pretty simple analogy there.

Stop assuming things about me. I think I'm at perfect liberty to keep things like that to myself. But I think it's obvious I'll never have to worry about taking my penis out don't you? However as I said above, it may be fine for you but is a 31% risk worth taking? Which is what it would be until the people aged and became more experienced.

If you did so in the uneducated manner in which you seem to think I've been practicing it, then you probably would. Doesn't change the fact that this method has yet to produce a pregnancy a good 6 years on now. Pretty effective thing it is.

For you. But it definately isn't a good solution for anyone, and shouldn't be thrown about as such.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I DONT agree with abortion AT ALL, but you cant say it should be illegal. Rape and incest of course, and cases were the baby would just be thrown in a dumpster IE if the father and mother both dont want it, and cant take care of it. I am EXTREMELY AGAINST abortion, but it doesnt make me think it should be illegal. Its more on a moral level, than a legal level.

And there wouldnt be as many cases as you think. I think you are misinterpreating my idea. Only cases were there are disagreement, if the man wants it, and the woman doesnt, should it be brought for evaluation. It should be part of the abortion process. You should have to sighn waivers, both the mother and father. If the father is nowere to be found before the time limit, well then you cant do anything else. its better than nothing. If the father objects, and wants the child, then the evaluation process happens. You said yoursself you cant see very many men being in the position I was in.

You have to have legislature in place to protect women, rape victims, ETC. But you she be able to protect men who would want to be fathers to their children, and stop them from having that taken from them.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I DONT agree with abortion AT ALL, but you cant say it should be illegal. Rape and incest of course, and cases were the baby would just be thrown in a dumpster IE if the father and mother both dont want it, and cant take care of it. I am EXTREMELY AGAINST abortion, but it doesnt make me think it should be illegal. Its more on a moral level, than a legal level.

Well I apologise for making the assumption you wanted it illegal. I have no problem with you thinking this, as I'm not exactly for abortion, and I doubt I'd ever be able to get one. I just believe women should have a choice.

And there wouldnt be as many cases as you think. I think you are misinterpreating my idea. Only cases were there are disagreement, if the man wants it, and the woman doesnt, should it be brought for evaluation. It should be part of the abortion process. You should have to sighn waivers, both the mother and father. If the father is nowere to be found before the time limit, well then you cant do anything else. its better than nothing. If the father objects, and wants the child, then the evaluation process happens. You said yoursself you cant see very many men being in the position I was in.

Ah see I spot a few problems with this.

- If it's not a part of all abortions, the woman could quite easily not tell the man and could have the abortion without him knowing any different due to their being a time limit on him signing it. If she didn't tell him he woudn't know he had to. I think that'd be an awful thing to do, but it'd definately happen.
- Women who don't know who the father is. There's no way to find out whilst she's still pregnant.
- In the end it'd still mean a women being forced into a pregnancy.

You have to have legislature in place to protect women, rape victims, ETC. But you she be able to protect men who would want to be fathers to their children, and stop them from having that taken from them.

The problem with rape is that you can't single out different reasons for abortions. It should be available to everyone. This is what I wrote to Will earlier. While I think it's good people understand the need for abortion to be needed in some cases, there are too many problems with allowing it for only one cause, such as rape.

"- It'd lead to an increase in false rape claims, something which is already growing steadily and needs to be stopped. Instead, you'd get thousands of girls who would shout rape in order to get an abortion when they had actually had consentual sex.

- This in turn would make it even harder for real people affected by rape to be believed, and it's due to the increase in fakes that it is so hard to get a conviction.

- Innocent mens lives would be ruined if the girls they had had consentual sex with shouted rape.

- Allowing abortion just in the case of rape suggests that pro-lifers are trying to punish women for having sex. They cannot do this in the case of rape, therefore have to allow it.

- If a woman was raped she would be forced to report it to the police, somethng many people think isn't right for them, just to get the abortion she should be entitled to anyway.

- Finally, it takes a lot longer than 9 months to get a conviction for rape, therefore the woman would have given birth by the time it had been decided if she was allowed an abortion."

 

[X]

Because this thread is people complaining about abortion, yet you're suggesting one of the least reliable ways to stop pregnancy. Even that 4-10% is a lot compared to condoms or the pill. And that same website says 4% risk ONLY in perfected cases. You may have perfected it, many others haven't and won't. So it may be fine for you, but it's irresponsible to show as a good way to stop pregnancy.

Excuse me, but your claim that "4-10% is a lot compared to condoms or the pill" is utterly false. Because using a condom in the absolute most perfect manner possible still has a failure rate of 2-3%. We're talking a few percentage points here. So again, it has almost the exact same failure rate as using a contraceptive.

Stop assuming things about me. I think I'm at perfect liberty to keep things like that to myself. But I think it's obvious I'll never have to worry about taking my penis out don't you? However as I said above, it may be fine for you but is a 31% risk worth taking? Which is what it would be until the people aged and became more experienced.

You certainly are at liberty to keep that information to yourself, but for you to bring yourself into a debate concerning exactly the topic that you want to "keep to yourself" is ridiculious. You haven't had the experience that I have, so for you to sit here trying to "educate" me on how unreliable something I have more experience in then yourself is just ridiculious.

I never suggested the idea of pulling out to teenagers, or to even be a form of contraception. This debate so far has mainly been argued by males in their 20's, with you and Eternal Dragon being the sole exceptions to that rule. Considering you're both women, who else was I suggesting the idea to other then responsible adult males involved in this debate?

For you. But it definately isn't a good solution for anyone, and shouldn't be thrown about as such.

Only, it is. The man takes a shower, and washes his penis. As long as he doesn't ejaculate between after that shower and when he is about to have sex, the failure rate is virtually the same as using a condom. The only thing you'd have to worry about besides that small failure rate is STDs.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Well of course there would be cases were the women wouldnt tell the men...but something in place is better than nothing no??? I mean it may not always help, but it wouldnt HURT anything would it???

If she didnt know who the father was...and she didnt want it...well then she would probably just do it anyway right?? like I said, it wouldnt help, but having the lesgislature there wouldnt hurt anything...

Forced into a pregnancy..well...TOUGH

that might seem unfair, but is it unfair for her to be able to call me up and tell me she is killing it?? and then telling ME "you dont like it?? TOUGH"...except the difference IS....the child gets to live, and the father gets his child...instead of just...death...why not have two positives instead of two negatives???

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Man, this is too huge of a can of worms to open up for me right now. I'll address this in full later, hopefully.

However, I wrote a paper on abortion last summer. What I found was that abortion will become obsolete in the near-distant future as the artificial womb becomes perfected. So this may no longer even be a debate. But then you have to figure out what to do with the unwanted child.

Here's an article about the artificial womb:

artificial womb

 

[HBK-aholic]

Excuse me, but your claim that "4-10% is a lot compared to condoms or the pill" is utterly false. Because using a condom in the absolute most perfect manner possible still has a failure rate of 2-3%. We're talking a few percentage points here. So again, it has almost the exact same failure rate as using a contraceptive.

Ignoring other things here, the problem with it is you have to perfect it to get to that stage, something many people haven't. and I'm, pretty sure you weren't an expert at it the first time you tried it, it takes time to get that percentage down, and in that time the woman could get pregnant.

This thread is about abortion, and therefore trying to prevent people wanting/needing an abortion could come into it. This isn't anywhere near the most reliable which is what I'm trying to point out.

You certainly are at liberty to keep that information to yourself, but for you to bring yourself into a debate concerning exactly the topic that you want to "keep to yourself" is ridiculious. You haven't had the experience that I have, so for you to sit here trying to "educate" me on how unreliable something I have more experience in then yourself is just ridiculious.

I'm not trying to educate you on how to do it. I'm just looking at it practically, it's obviously not the best way to prevent pregnancy which is what I'm getting at.

I never suggested the idea of pulling out to teenagers, or to even be a form of contraception. This debate so far has mainly been argued by males in their 20's, with you and Eternal Dragon being the sole exceptions to that rule. Considering you're both women, who else was I suggesting the idea to other then responsible adult males involved in this debate?

Because as I've said conutless times, as websites have said, it takes perfection to get percentage that low, and a man needs discipline to be able to do so. You might have that, and if people wanted to use it as an extra contraceptive it's up to them but they should definately know the risks of using it on it's own.

Only, it is. The man takes a shower, and washes his penis. As long as he doesn't ejaculate between after that shower and when he is about to have sex, the failure rate is virtually the same as using a condom. The only thing you'd have to worry about besides that small failure rate is STDs.

It's not only about taking a shower beforehand, other things come into it.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Well of course there would be cases were the women wouldnt tell the men...but something in place is better than nothing no??? I mean it may not always help, but it wouldnt HURT anything would it???

If she didnt know who the father was...and she didnt want it...well then she would probably just do it anyway right?? like I said, it wouldnt help, but having the lesgislature there wouldnt hurt anything...

Yes it would hurt something. Because throughout this whole conversation you've forgotten a womans right to not be forced into pregnancy. Even if the man wanted the child, at the end of the day you cannot force her to keep it. Rational discussion could help, but if she has her reasons for not continuing a pregnancy she shouldn't be forced to.

Forced into a pregnancy..well...TOUGH

NorCal, you wonder why I get worked up in debates about abortion when you come out with something like this.

that might seem unfair, but is it unfair for her to be able to call me up and tell me she is killing it?? and then telling ME "you dont like it?? TOUGH"...except the difference IS....the child gets to live, and the father gets his child...instead of just...death...why not have two positives instead of two negatives???

2 positives? It's bordering selfishness now. "Oh who cares if I'm forcing her into this as long as I get the child I want and as long as my life is happy". It may not be what you mean but it's what you're coming across as.

She is completely immature for saying what she did to you, and shouldn't have. But remember who had sex with her.

 

[X]

Ignoring other things here, the problem with it is you have to perfect it to get to that stage, something many people haven't. and I'm, pretty sure you weren't an expert at it the first time you tried it, it takes time to get that percentage down, and in that time the woman could get pregnant.

4% is the perfect failure rate for withdrawal, but the educated use of withdrawal (ie: taking a shower and washing your penis) is closer to around 5-10%, as I said before. It's not about being an "expert". There is nothing difficult here. You take a shower and wash your penis, pretty simple.

This thread is about abortion, and therefore trying to prevent people wanting/needing an abortion could come into it. This isn't anywhere near the most reliable which is what I'm trying to point out.

No it's not, nor did I ever claim it to be. I said from the beginning that it shouldn't be taken as a form of contraception, but as an alternative to using contraception devices without having to become pregnant. It's rather effective at that if the person is educated on the subject. And if some random teenager just read me suggesting it to them, they would have read everything I've said about the proper way to go about using withdrawal.

I'm not trying to educate you on how to do it. I'm just looking at it practically, it's obviously not the best way to prevent pregnancy which is what I'm getting at.

Of course it's not the best way, but it's certainly just as effective as a condom can be.

Because as I've said conutless times, as websites have said, it takes perfection to get percentage that low, and a man needs discipline to be able to do so. You might have that, and if people wanted to use it as an extra contraceptive it's up to them but they should definately know the risks of using it on it's own.

You make it sound like this is some incredibly hard test of endurance and body control to be able to lower that percentage. It isn't. Here is what a man does: Get into the shower. Wash the tip of the penis and the surrounding area. Rinse off, get out of shower. Not very hard. That right there will lower the failure rate to somewhere between 5-10%, though not the perfect 4% you keep alluding to.

It's not only about taking a shower beforehand, other things come into it.

Not really. Most if not all men wash their penises in the manner I described above every time they take a shower. As long as they do that, the pregnancy risk is lowered quite substantially by using the withdrawal method.

So say what you will, but I can attest to this method from personal experience. It's not even some obscure knowledge either, plenty of contraception informational services offer this information.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

!!!!!

you sound like HER now!!!! (she actually told me "yea you would like that wouldnt you, so you can just play the hero again, like always" when I offered to take it, and let her go about her life without having to deal with anything that went with it)

I AM SELFISH???? for wanting the child to live and for em to take it and for her to not have to deal with anything having to do with it ever again?? I AM SELFISH for taking that responsibility on my back becuase she is a clown???

Its not selfish for YOU to say "well fuck it, I dont feel like dealing with pregnancy for the next 9 months, so that 9 months of discomfort is worth stopping your childs life from happening, and fucking up yours" and you say I AM THE ONE WHO IS SELFISH?? you really cant be serious. I understand you feel strongly sbout your side of the argument, but you cant let you make blindly biased statements like that. I wouldve even gone so far as to take care of HER too, however unsufferable it may have been, becuase I have the head onmy shoulders to take responsibility for my actions. But she wasnt having it, becuase she didnt feel like "interrupting her classes, and job" for 7 months for pregnancy.

So, I wanted to take the entire financial and lifelong responsibility of the child, and do it all alone, and let the child have whatever life it may lead, while she was gonna scrape it, becuase she didnt feel like interrupting school and her job for 6 to 7 months. And I AM THE ONE WHO IS SELFISH. Becca. come on girlie.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Well you can use personal experience Xfear, and as I said that's fine to do. I'll never have that personal experience so if you really want to say I know les about it which in a way I do. But all I'm wanting to do is to make sure everyone else knows that it isn't a miracle which means contraception is needed. Do you see my point? This works for you and that's great, but there's a higher rate of 27% for a reason.

 

[HBK-aholic]

!!!!!

you sound like HER now!!!!

I AM SELFISH???? for wanting the child to live and for em to take it and for her to not have to deal with anything having to do with it ever again?? I AM SELFISH for taking that responsibility on my back becuase she is a clown???

She may have acted stupid or whatever she did, but come on, you're FORCING her into having a baby. Into going through that labour, into coping with the things that come after it, with the pregnancy. It's her choice NorCal, you cannot decide that she should go through that.

Its not selfish for YOU to say "well fuck it, I dont feel like dealing with pregnancy for the next 9 months, so that 9 months of discomfort is worth stopping your childs life from happening, and fucking up yours" and you say I AM THE ONE WHO IS SELFISH?? you really cant be serious. I understand you feel strongly sbout your side of the argument, but you cant let you make blindly biased statements like that. I wouldve even gone so far as to take care of HER too, however unsufferable it may have been, becuase I have the head onmy shoulders to take responsibility for my actions. But she wasnt having it, becuase she didnt feel like "interrupting her classes, and job" for 7 months for pregnancy.

Depending on how old she was, schooling is a very important thing. At the moment I'm about to sit my GCSE's and I wouldn't be able to if I was pregnant.

I understand you wanted a child, it's good you'd have looked after it, but pregnancy isn't a walk in the park, and she realised that. I disrespect her for telling you she was having an abortion the way she did, but every woman should have that choice. I care more for a thinking, feeling woman than for some cells which couldn't even live without that woman.

So, I wanted to take the entire financial and lifelong responsibility of the child, and do it all alone, and let the child have whatever life it may lead, while she was gonna scrape it, becuase she didnt feel like interrupting school and her job for 6 to 7 months. And I AM THE ONE WHO IS SELFISH. Becca. come on girlie.

You're not selfish in that sense, but selfish in the fact you'd have put her through all that just so you could get what you wanted; the baby.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I didnt want a baby. but I take care of my responsibility. Once its made, would I rather have it, than have it get scraped?? Yes, of course. I want my child to live. Yes I do. You mkae it seem like I was working towards wanting a baby on purpose. It wasnt like that. She ended up thinking she was pregnant, it was mine, so I was gonna be a man, and take the responsiblity for what risk I took putting my dick in her. My child having a life?? yes thats what I wanted. Guess I am selfish, and she isnt, for wasting a life, that wouldve paid her no inconvienience besides the pregnancy. Your weighting of acting as if an entire life is comparable to a pregnancy astounds me, truly. I dunno. Im used to suffering for others, so that they may live, or live better. Must just be me and my selfishness.

 

[HBK-aholic]

But a pregnancy is an awful thing to put someone through. Tbh from what you've said about her she doesn't exactly seem mature. But still, it's the fact that no matter what you can't force a woman to do something she doesn't want to. If men could get pregnant it'd be the same thing, you can't force them to do it either. It begins taking away their rights, and that's something that's irreplaceable. she should definately have spoken to you about it, and if I was in her position which I never hope to be, I would have kept it and gave it to the father if he was sure that's what he wanted. But she didn't want to go through the pregnancy. It's not something I think is great, but if you can begin forcing someont into pregnancy where does it end?