Abortion

[Eternal Dragon]

But a pregnancy is an awful thing to put someone through. Tbh from what you've said about her she doesn't exactly seem mature. But still, it's the fact that no matter what you can't force a woman to do something she doesn't want to. If men could get pregnant it'd be the same thing, you can't force them to do it either. It begins taking away their rights, and that's something that's irreplaceable. she should definately have spoken to you about it, and if I was in her position which I never hope to be, I would have kept it and gave it to the father if he was sure that's what he wanted. But she didn't want to go through the pregnancy. It's not something I think is great, but if you can begin forcing someont into pregnancy where does it end?

If they're already pregnant, then in this case, they weren't forced into that situation.

I don't see why or how the father doesn't have a choice when it comes to whether or not the baby should live or not. If we're going to talk about fairness for women when it comes to pregnancy, then why don't we talk about fariness for men when it comes to pregnancy? I understand that it's the woman who has to carry the child for nine months, but I don't think that gives women the SOLE right to decide if they want to keep the baby or not. If you're going to say it's wrong to "force" a woman into keeping the the pregnancy, then isn't it also wrong to have an abortion without the consent of both parents? And isn't it selfish to get an abortion only because you don't want yourself to suffer the consequences of your actons?

If you really don't want a baby, then don't have sex. It's as easy as that. If you still want to have sex, then own up to it if you become pregnant.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[HBK-aholic]

No, it isn't wrong if she has an abortion without the consent of the male. All this is doing is further pushing back all women have worked for. Our bodies are not under the control of men anymore, and that's the way it should and will stay.

It does give the woman the SOLE right, the man can continue his life as normal, whereas she could suffer morning sickness everyday, stretch marks, weight gain, the labour, possible surgery, post natal depression, producing milk etc. The list is endless, and I'm not having men in control of whether I have to go through that or not.

Sex is NOT equal to those things. Everyone should know there is a risk of pregnancy when having sex, but consenting to a pregnancy means AGREEING to be pregnant, so unless the woman agrees to the pregnancy she is not consenting to it.

And, it's stupid to think couples who never want children will refrain from sex. I know I won't. People should be smart enough to use contraception and to greatly lower the risk, however it's the 21st century, and sex isn't for reproduction only purposes. If worst comes to worst, a woman should be granted an abortion if she feels it's the right thing for her.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Here is a fact of life (especially to little miss 16 year old): Life has consequences. Life is made up of cause and effect. If you don't have a job that could support a baby, if you're still in high school, if your man/woman doesn't have a job that could support a baby, if you don't live somewhere that isn't either of your parent's house, and if you are not ready and/or mature enough to handle the responsibilities that come with raising a child of your own then you are not mature enough to have sex. By willingly having sex that early in life you are consenting to have a baby whether you like it or not that early in life. There are many different sensual and erotic things (I don't think I need to make a list here) you could do that doesn't involve sexual intercourse.


Here's my final statement on the subject: Until you're an adult (21 - over). You are not even close to the maturity level needed to be a parent. Life is easy at 15 and 16. You take ur ass to school, do your homework (no matter how much you hate ur teacher), get good grades, graduate, get a job or go to college, get the hell out of ur mommy and daddy's house, then you might be mature enough to be a parent and therefore be mature enough to have sex. Until then don't, cause I don't want to get shot by your kid 13 years cause you weren't able to raise him/her right.

I've just come across this now, and I'm actually outraged. My life is definately NOT easy. Don't just assume things about me. Just because some 16 year olds go around sleeping around and getting pregnant doesn't mean I'm one of them. And an adult is 21 or over? A load of bullshit. I know so called 'adults' I'm a hell of a lot maturer than. I look after a 6 year old girl almost all the time, with no help and I don't complain. I'm frequently left alone with her, and I'm the one looking after her when she's ill, taking her for doctors appointments etc, because she only wants me at those times.

So at 16, financially I may not be ready to have a child, which I know and wouldn't put myself in that position, but I'm a hell of a lot more mature than some people of the ages you've described as being mature enough.

Oh, and by all what you've just said, I presume you waited until you were 21 to have sex?

 

[Eternal Dragon]

No, it isn't wrong if she has an abortion without the consent of the male. All this is doing is further pushing back all women have worked for. Our bodies are not under the control of men anymore, and that's the way it should and will stay.

It does give the woman the SOLE right, the man can continue his life as normal, whereas she could suffer morning sickness everyday, stretch marks, weight gain, the labour, possible surgery, post natal depression, producing milk etc. The list is endless, and I'm not having men in control of whether I have to go through that or not.

Sex is NOT equal to those things. Everyone should know there is a risk of pregnancy when having sex, but consenting to a pregnancy means AGREEING to be pregnant, so unless the woman agrees to the pregnancy she is not consenting to it.

And, it's stupid to think couples who never want children will refrain from sex. I know I won't. People should be smart enough to use contraception and to greatly lower the risk, however it's the 21st century, and sex isn't for reproduction only purposes. If worst comes to worst, a woman should be granted an abortion if she feels it's the right thing for her.

How is having the consent of both parents giving "all control" to males? It's the most fair thing you can do. I hope and believe that women have NOT worked to take rights away from men, which is what I think really happens when only a woman is given the right to decided whether or not an abortion takes place.

You bring up the fact that a woman has to go through all the trials and tribulations that come up with pregnancy, but you're thinking from such a one-sided stance. Yes, a woman has to go through that while a man doesn't, but think about the kind of suffering the father would have to go through if the baby he helped create was taken away, even if he wanted it to be born, wanted to raise it, etc. This has nothing to do with letting men control women. It's about basic fairness. Let's say two people are working on a project together and one of them has to take it home, but they decide it's too heavy to carry around so they rip it up. Wouldn't that be incredibly unfair to the other partner who helped to make the project?

It's the 21st century and people should be smart enough to know that the only way to gurantee you're not going get pregnant is by not having sex. If everyone is going to have sex anyways, then it is completely selfish to have an abortion in that circumstance.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[HBK-aholic]

How is having the consent of both parents giving "all control" to males? It's the most fair thing you can do. I hope and believe that women have NOT worked to take rights away from men, which is what I think really happens when only a woman is given the right to decided whether or not an abortion takes place.

Well going by what NorCal said, if the man wanted it and the women didn't, he'd be allowed to keep it and she'd be forced to go through pregnancy.
So, what would happen in your system if the man wanted it and the woman didn't?

You bring up the fact that a woman has to go through all the trials and tribulations that come up with pregnancy, but you're thinking from such a one-sided stance. Yes, a woman has to go through that while a man doesn't, but think about the kind of suffering the father would have to go through if the baby he helped create was taken away, even if he wanted it to be born, wanted to raise it, etc. This has nothing to do with letting men control women. It's about basic fairness. Let's say two people are working on a project together and one of them has to take it home, but they decide it's too heavy to carry around so they rip it up. Wouldn't that be incredibly unfair to the other partner who helped to make the project?

As I said, it's completely fine when both people agree to the abortion, no problems. But what happens when the man decides he doesn't agree with it? Which is what I was getting at throughout my post.

It's the 21st century and people should be smart enough to know that the only way to gurantee you're not going get pregnant is by not having sex. If everyone is going to have sex anyways, then it is completely selfish to have an abortion in that circumstance.

Flames Out
Dragon

It's naive to think just because someone doesn't want children they'll refrain from having sex. And there could be many reasons why they can't/don't want a child. If a couple don't want children then these people should use contraception every time they have sex, but if that somehow failed they should have the option of abortion.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Shouldnt matter. Fact of the matter is, you CAN force someone to do something, if its in the best interest of a child. If the father can take care of it, then its best option is to live. Period. People are forced to do things all the time in the best interest of children. So in my case, with a man who is totally willing to take up for the child, a person who makes a very good living, and could give the child a good life, what then, in your opinion, is in the childs best interest? To be allowed to be born, and to live, and have a good life, or to be scraped becuase the woman doesnt want to experience apregnancy??

You keep saying the her body her body her body, but once she is pregnant its not JUST HER BODY anymore, its a part of the man inside of her, and the babies body developing.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Shouldnt matter. Fact of the matter is, you CAN force someone to do something, if its in the best interest of a child. If the father can take care of it, then its best option is to live. Period. People are forced to do things all the time in the best interest of children. So in my case, with a man who is totally willing to take up for the child, a person who makes a very good living, and could give the child a good life, what then, in your opinion, is in the childs best interest? To be allowed to be born, and to live, and have a good life, or to be scraped becuase the woman doesnt want to experience apregnancy??

You keep saying the her body her body her body, but once she is pregnant its not JUST HER BODY anymore, its a part of the man inside of her, and the babies body developing.

Lmao, NEVER is a womans body partly the mans she had sex with. It's HER body. No one elses.

You're acting as if their is already a child out of the woman who is at serious risk or whatever. When in actual fact, this is a bunch of cells who wouldn't survive at all if the woman wasn't sharing her nutrients and everything else with it.

I care more about the rights of a thinking, feeling, alive human being than of an embryo.

A child and a fetus are 2 very different things, and until it becomes viable, the woman can do what the hell she likes with it.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Becca you say you, wouldnt personally be able to go through with an abortion....why is that?? If its just a bunch of cells, and nothing the sort of a child, then why would you have a problem with scraping one yourself???

And yes, wether you want to ignore it or not, that embryo is half the mans. becuase he provided half the chromosomes to make it what it is. He, is in HER. Thats true. The embryo is both of theirs. The womans body is its vehicle, but the embryo is half/half.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Becca you say you, wouldnt personally be able to go through with an abortion....why is that?? If its just a bunch of cells, and nothing the sort of a child, then why would you have a problem with scraping one yourself???

For me, the main reason being my mum had quite a few miscarriages before she had me, and it'd break her heart if I then had an abortion. So I don't think I'd be able to do that to her, rather than any reason regarding a possible child.

But I'd also have to say it depends on the situation. Because I'd only ever allow myself to get pregnant when in a relationship with someone I could see myself staying with for a long time. In that situation, where I loved the person I was with I'd want us to have a child.

However, if I ever got pregnant not by my choice I'd definately want the option of aborting it. Because if I got pregnant through sexual assault there's no way I would be able to keep it.

Being pro-choice doesn't automatically mean I agree with every abortion. I've already expressed the fact I have no sympathy for the people who casually sleep around without protection.

BUT I know that nothing good will come of making it illegal. You yourself are pro-choice in the sense you don't want abortion illegal. And I'm for womens rights, meaning I think a woman should have a choice in what she wants to do. And finally, people say things like "it's okay in the case of rape" but I've already stated many reasons as to why we cannot only offer abortion in certain situations. It needs to be an option.

And yes, wether you want to ignore it or not, that embryo is half the mans. becuase he provided half the chromosomes to make it what it is. He, is in HER. Thats true. The embryo is both of theirs. The womans body is its vehicle, but the embryo is half/half.

The embryo is half the males yes, but it gives no contrl to the man about the womans body which is hers.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

For me, the main reason being my mum had quite a few miscarriages before she had me, and it'd break her heart if I then had an abortion. So I don't think I'd be able to do that to her, rather than any reason regarding a possible child.
.

Why would you be worried about it hurting your mother?? Its just cells, not a child I though?? remember you said that??

The embryo is half the males yes, but it gives no contrl to the man about the womans body which is hers.

But I SHOULD be able to have some control over the embryo that is half mine being killed right??? So the womans body is the vehicle for it, my rights as the half owner of that embryo are automatically just voided???

 

[HBK-aholic]

Why would you be worried about it hurting your mother?? Its just cells, not a child I though?? remember you said that??

And that's what I believe. But that's not what she sees. And I'm too close to her to do something like that to her, because I know I'd lose her if I did.

But I SHOULD be able to have some control over the embryo that is half mine being killed right??? So the womans body is the vehicle for it, my rights as the half owner of that embryo are automatically just voided???

To put it bluntly, yes. You have no ownership over her body. To put it simply, don't sleep with a girl that would get an abortion upon coming pregnant.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

To put it bluntly, yes. You have no ownership over her body. To put it simply, don't sleep with a girl that would get an abortion upon coming pregnant.

Ill be sure to ask that question right before I penetrate next time Becca


To put it bluntly, she shouldnt sleep with someone if she doesnt want a man owning half of something in her body.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Ill be sure to ask that question right before I penetrate next time Becca

Well if you just sleep with people and not actually talk to them about anything is it any wonder you were in this situation?

To put it bluntly, she shouldnt sleep with someone if she doesnt want a man owning half of something in her body.

How many times have I said this? It's stupid to think just because someone doesn't want kids they won;t have sex.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Well if you just sleep with people and not actually talk to them about anything is it any wonder you were in this situation?



How many times have I said this? It's stupid to think just because someone doesn't want kids they won;t have sex.

"would you have an abortion if you got pregnant" and "anything" are sorta different LOL.

And its stupid to have sex without knowing the risk involved, and not being able to take responsibility for it if the risk comes to fruition. You made the decision to have the risk of having something that is half mine inside you.

You keep talking as if the girl (if not both people) should have zero to little accountability

 

[HBK-aholic]

But as you're saying about the risks, if you're going to sleep with someone, surely you should talk about things like that beforehand? Or maybe that's just me, which is why I wouldn't be in a situation like this.

 

[X]

But as you're saying about the risks, if you're going to sleep with someone, surely you should talk about things like that beforehand? Or maybe that's just me, which is why I wouldn't be in a situation like this.

...WHAT?!

I can see it right now: two drunken people about to engage in unprotected sex, the first thing they say to each other is: "If I impregnate you would you please not have an abortion? Yeah? Okay, cool, that's a turn on".

But in all seriousness, no Becca. Nobody talks about whether or not they will have an abortion if the sex they're about to have results in a pregnancy.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

...WHAT?!

I can see it right now: two drunken people about to engage in unprotected sex, the first thing they say to each other is: "If I impregnate you would you please not have an abortion? Yeah? Okay, cool, that's a turn on".

But in all seriousness, no Becca. Nobody talks about whether or not they will have an abortion if the sex they're about to have results in a pregnancy.

!!!!!!!!!

I totally left that alone becuase I wanted to give someone else to smash that one outta the ballpark. Becca, I would imagine that about 98% of people dont talk about that before they have sex. Seriously. The vasty majoriy of sexual encounters occur between people who have known each other less than a week I would say LOL.

 

[HBK-aholic]

...WHAT?!

I can see it right now: two drunken people about to engage in unprotected sex, the first thing they say to each other is: "If I impregnate you would you please not have an abortion? Yeah? Okay, cool, that's a turn on".

But in all seriousness, no Becca. Nobody talks about whether or not they will have an abortion if the sex they're about to have results in a pregnancy.

Well with the 2 drunken people is that don't know each other I'm sure this wouldn't come into it anyway, because they'll most likely never see each other again. So if she falls pregnant and wants an abortion I doubt he'll be any the wiser.

BUT what I meant was couples. And I don;t mean right before they're about to have sex either. But people complain about abortion rates yet they're happy to sleep with someone without discussing whether they want children or what would happen if they got pregnant etc. See the stupidity?

!!!!!!!!!

I totally left that alone becuase I wanted to give someone else to smash that one outta the ballpark. Becca, I would imagine that about 98% of people dont talk about that before they have sex. Seriously. The vasty majoriy of sexual encounters occur between people who have known each other less than a week I would say LOL.

And you guys seriously wonder why there's so many abortions?!

 

[Eternal Dragon]

Well going by what NorCal said, if the man wanted it and the women didn't, he'd be allowed to keep it and she'd be forced to go through pregnancy.
So, what would happen in your system if the man wanted it and the woman didn't?

But if that's giving men control over women's bodies, then isn't it true that if only women are allowed to decide whether they want an abortion or not they are controlling a part of men's lives too? She's in control of whether or not he's going to have a child, she's in control of a decision that affects him too. That isn't fair to him at all. Pregnancy lasts for nine months, losing a child with no way of stopping it means suffering for much longer.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[HBK-aholic]

But if that's giving men control over women's bodies, then isn't it true that if only women are allowed to decide whether they want an abortion or not they are controlling a part of men's lives too? She's in control of whether or not he's going to have a child, she's in control of a decision that affects him too. That isn't fair to him at all. Pregnancy lasts for nine months, losing a child with no way of stopping it means suffering for much longer.

Flames Out
Dragon

Both lives are going to be changed, no matter which way it goes. And I've said I feel the woman should definately take the mans point of view into account, but at the end of the day she's the one who has to go through a pregnancy. If there was a way for the man to keep the child, but the woman not have to have the child, then maybe it'd work out.
But there are many reasons a woman may not want to keep the child, or go through with the pregnancy. And she shouldn't be forced to do so.

 

[kieran_devlin]

A few tips for everyone.

-Dont have sex with someone you are not prepared to have a child with. This could be hard if they are stupidly hot.

-If they do not want the child make sure you are prepared to look after it.

-Use a rubber jonny so you dont get STDs.

Personally in this day and age there is no need for abortions as there is care that can be put in place and foster homes for children.
Plus there is all that stuff about your killing an innocent life.

Ultimately a person cannot be forced to have child but personally i think it would be terrible to get an abortion and a lot of people regret it.

 

[Capt. Charisma]

I actualy don't have a problem with abortion while I agree people should use contraception I myself have had sex without it on occasion mainly because I've been too drunk to remember/care or because I didnt have any. I think catching an STD is much more incentive to wear a condom thats what they should educating people with. And ifit stops unnessery pregnancies all the better. However I would rather someone got an abortion rather than taxpayers money going to pay for a women to sit at home all day with a baby whatching daytime tv and robbing the fathers of most of their wages for 1 day a week access while the mothers sit on their arses.

 

[kieran_devlin]

The kid might grow up to be something good tho plus the social might take the kid away from the stupid mother.

The catholic church actually encourages the use of condoms as a method of preventing STDs they are a bigger killer in some countries i mean condom makers could make a bundle selling to these nations.

The fact you dont take care when having sex shows how stupid you really are.

I dunno how id feel if i found out my mother had an abortion and killed my would be older sibling.

It all questions the value of life really because if a person dosnt want a child one day then in the future has a child you know what im getting at.

 

[WrestlingAuthority90]

First off im against abortion personaly if you didnt want a baby you
should have used a condom and if you dont want the kid you can always
give it up for adoption
with that said im all for Freedom and this is America and its everyones
own personal choice .

 

[Eternal Dragon]

Both lives are going to be changed, no matter which way it goes. And I've said I feel the woman should definately take the mans point of view into account, but at the end of the day she's the one who has to go through a pregnancy. If there was a way for the man to keep the child, but the woman not have to have the child, then maybe it'd work out.
But there are many reasons a woman may not want to keep the child, or go through with the pregnancy. And she shouldn't be forced to do so.

So if you're going to give the woman the sole right to decide whether or not to keep the child, the sole right over the child, then why do men suddenly become responsible for it if it is ever born? My friend brought up that point at another forum, and I think it blows a gaping hole in the argument so many feminists put out- that women carry the pregnancy, so they should have all rights over the baby. Why isn't that true all the time? If that's the case, then men shouldn't be held accountable when it comes to things like child support for the baby if it is ever born because that's picking and choosing when to give men rights. I don't understand how any feminist who believes that only the woman can decide whether to get an abortion or not, can preach about equal rights. Equal rights only when it's convenient for them maybe, and in the end that's not equal rights at all.

Flames Out
Dragon