5 Moves of Doom (Wrestling Terminology)

[THE Great GAMMA]

The term "5 Moves of Doom" has been thrown around quite a bit around here and people keep on getting it wrong

Its not that the performer does the same moves. because everyone has a set moveset with room for an addition now and then for special occasions.

The "5 Moves of Doom" is the term used when a performer gets beaten on for 98% of a match and the most time spent on offense is the 2% which involves the a string of 4 or 5 moves and wins. typical example would be Hulk Hogan

The Hulkster gets beaten from pillar to post his bandana goes flying he is bleeding like faucet. and next thing you know he Hulks up throws a couple of punches. delivers the big boot. poses for two minutes and hits the leg drop. not selling a damn that he just had the stuffing beaten out of him.

The same can be said for what happens in a Cena match hell the Miz beat him around for about half an hour and yet Cena still wins.

People will say Yes but The Rock did the same thing i beg to differ. Whens the last time you see Cena or hogan hit the AA or the legdrop and not be able to make the cover straight away? and yet The Rock managed to sell his beating by not being able to make the cover after a Rock Bottom (and really all you have to do with that move is not let go of the guy and you got the pin)

So just to clarify and summerise.

The "5 moves of Doom" does not point a finger at the lack of variety of a performers moveset. But rather at the 2-3 minute amazing burst of energy that allows a dominated performer to pick up the win miraculously without showing any effects of the beating they just suffered.

 

[Papa Zapatista]

That's drama. The hero or protagonist of a story faces an incredible challenge, but in the end they gather their courage, strength, and passion to overwhelm their enemy and claim victory. Fortunately, thanks to Savage vs. Steamboat at WM3, we see a lot less of this cliche than we may have.

 

[Sleep Time]

Big Deal, John Cena is indeed a good wrestler, he made an extremely rare 5 * match (as rated by the Wrestling Newsletter Observer's Dave Meltzer) with Punk. There hasn't been one 5 * in five years. The five moves of doom was only to excite the crowd whether or not he got the finisher on or not.

 

[robbo316]

Just gotta say, I'm watching WM V at the moment, and the Hogan v Savage title match. I'm just wondering about the 5 moves of doom, and also somewhere there has been stated that Hogan was very plodding in his matches. In the space of about 6 seconds, he had Savage in:
1) Collar and elbow
2) side headlock
3) armbar
4) drop toehold
5) front facelock

Don't get me wrong back in the 80's I was a Hogan mark. But as I've gotten older, I sort of changed a bit. But it does seem to me that he was a little more creative in the ring than people give him credit for. In fact I think that most people were a bit more creative back then than they are now, they just seem to have gotten lazy, as the years/decades have moved on. What the cause of that is, I have no idea.

Oh, and as an aside, I do miss Ventura and Monsoon on commentary. I think Michael Cole needs to learn from some of the older heel commentators how to do it without sounding like a whiny little schoolgirl who needs a cookie.

 

[Slyfox696]

The term "5 Moves of Doom" has been thrown around quite a bit around here and people keep on getting it wrong

Its not that the performer does the same moves. because everyone has a set moveset with room for an addition now and then for special occasions.

The "5 Moves of Doom" is the term used when a performer gets beaten on for 98% of a match and the most time spent on offense is the 2% which involves the a string of 4 or 5 moves and wins. typical example would be Hulk Hogan

The Hulkster gets beaten from pillar to post his bandana goes flying he is bleeding like faucet. and next thing you know he Hulks up throws a couple of punches. delivers the big boot. poses for two minutes and hits the leg drop. not selling a damn that he just had the stuffing beaten out of him.

The same can be said for what happens in a Cena match hell the Miz beat him around for about half an hour and yet Cena still wins.

People will say Yes but The Rock did the same thing i beg to differ. Whens the last time you see Cena or hogan hit the AA or the legdrop and not be able to make the cover straight away? and yet The Rock managed to sell his beating by not being able to make the cover after a Rock Bottom (and really all you have to do with that move is not let go of the guy and you got the pin)

So just to clarify and summerise.

The "5 moves of Doom" does not point a finger at the lack of variety of a performers moveset. But rather at the 2-3 minute amazing burst of energy that allows a dominated performer to pick up the win miraculously without showing any effects of the beating they just suffered.

Amusingly, in your attempt to correct people on the Five Moves of Doom, you have gotten it completely wrong.

The Five Moves of Doom was a term originated by Scott Keith (I believe that's right) in reference to Bret Hart's formula for ending matches. They were the five moves which always let the viewer know the end of the match was coming. They were the inverted atomic drop, Russian legsweep, backbreaker, elbowdrop from the second rope, and Sharpshooter. Hart would vary the order, but if you watch most Hart matches, you'll find all five of those moves, and usually towards what you would believe to be the end of the match.

The Five Moves of Doom have absolutely nothing to do with a limited moveset, and even less to do (yes, that's less than nothing) with the typical WWE babyface comeback. You have it completely incorrect. In the end, the Five Moves of Doom reference the "go-to" moves a wrestler has and uses, usually towards the end of the match. And despite what so many in the IWC seem to think the Five Moves of Doom is a very good wrestling tactic, both in terms of kayfabe, and in terms of working the audience.

 

[Shadowmancer]

And despite what so many in the IWC seem to think the Five Moves of Doom is a very good wrestling tactic, both in terms of kayfabe, and in terms of working the audience.

And this is where I am going to disagree with you slightly. While yes the "FMoD" is a "good" wrestling tactic, I think there is degrees of it. If it is done every single match that the guy wins his matches become pretty boring, see a large number of Cena matches from a time ago (ie. Super Cena era). I think that it is good when after it is established it only happens after a "hard fought" match. But when it is pulled out for every match it seems fairly lazy*. Using Cena's FMoD as an example, if he went for the cover after the fist drop, and got the occasional pinfall that way I doubt people would have a problem with it and it would make sense considering the fact that the guy got punched in the head while lying prone on the ground with their head against the ground and all that.

*Yes I know that someone will take that to mean that I think either Bret Hart or Cena are lazy, that is not what I mean, just it gives an appearance of laziness if that is the only way that a match is ever won without variation.

 

[EASTorWESTpunkIStheBEST]

Here we need to understand basic funda of a heel >he/she is mean,he is arrogant,he is selfish, he is brutal, he can go TO ANY EXTANT to finish his rival.. On the other hand a face have passion but there is also a hint of mercy, he dont want to take advantage of unfair means, he gets angry only after a interval of beating(other than he smiles in a foolish way all the time)..ok so now when a heel beats a face so much, then face comes into in his real gear ,perform '5 moves' and finish that heel..

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

The "five moves of doom" have nothing to do with a sudden burst of energy. Sly mentioned that it was a term given to Bret's finishing sequence but it must also be mentioned that Bret did not use these moves to make a comeback neccesarily. He would often perform them when he was totally dominating the match.

HBK was another guy who used this sequence. His moves involved the flying forearm, atomic drop, body slam, flying elbow drop followed by the Sweet Chin Music. If you see carefully, his moves, particularly the superkick often got countered and that is something that happens with every wrestler. Guys like Cena, HBK, Hart, Orton and many more make multiple FMoD attempts in a particular match and you would notice that they very often don't win with that sequence. Maybe the finisher gets countered and then the opponent hits a set of moves and then you see the finish with the babyface hitting the finisher. The fact that wrestlers always win with a FMoD is mostly a myth.

Also there is hardly anything wrong with having a FMoD sequence. It helps the crowd identify with your moveset and they invariably pop up loud when they see a wrestler's signature moves being hit. Especially if the finisher that a wrestler has is not exactly a vert quick one which can be hit out of nowhere, I think that an FMoD sequence can do a better job at attracting a pop.

 

[Cebeards]

5 Moves of Doom gets used a lot on guys that aren't very versitile wrestlers
Cena, Hogan

Smallest moveset ever still belongs to Austin, he kicked, punched, kicked some more, punch some more, jumped on the guy, punched more, got the guy in the corner kicked some more, then stunned. The reason not a lot of attention is paid is that Austin put an assload of character into his moves. So you didn't question it. He was very versitile in where and when he could punch or kick you; pretty awesome to think that one of his 5 moves is the finger....anyways I'm going off topic.

5 Moves of Doom? Used to be called signature moves you ass clowns. Everyone has them, you look forward to these moves because that is one way that you identify with a character, you watch Captain Planet because you are waiting for them to put the god damn rings together. The reason these moves get bitched about so often is because the dryer wrestlers are stuck into the rut of only having those moves, If they can improvise in the match, add character to their moves and sell adequately then they can have their 5 moves along with the endless hate of dorks worldwide.

Shawn Michaels, HBK, best in history. Always improvised, always adds character to his moves, always sells like gold; at the same time, he always atomic drops, always elbow drops, always hits that sweeeet chin music.

another 5 move of doom success? Orton

John Cena, SuperCena, always gets his ass beat for a half hour, then hulks up and does his 5 moves of doom in sequence (why in the perfect hell is it always everyones first instinct to punch after the second warrior shoulder block?) without fail and he usually supercena's his way to a win. Cena makes his opponents look credible just to bury them, this is a fact and a horrible way of booking.

The 5 moves of doom grim reaper himself? Hogan

See the difference?

 

[SillyCheez]

Guys like Cena, HBK, Hart, Orton and many more make multiple FMoD attempts in a particular match and you would notice that they very often don't win with that sequence. Maybe the finisher gets countered and then the opponent hits a set of moves and then you see the finish with the babyface hitting the finisher. The fact that wrestlers always win with a FMoD is mostly a myth.

I gotta agree here. Most top wrestlers have the FMoD setup to signify the end of a match, but usually only in a squash does it actually work out that the sequence of the FMoD is the end. For example, Cena's FMoD was used this past Raw to finish off Swagger, as they were trying to make both champs look "unstoppable" this week, but usually there is a counter or break up somewhere in there (Kick to to head on 5-Knuckle Shuffle, elbows on the face on the AA, rope break off of STF, etc). The FMoD are simply there to excite the crowd and build for the finish. It's something people relate to, and brings people in for the end. Mostly in situations like this week's Raw does the sequence actually happen to end a match.

Look at the usual PPV matches involving Cena. There is always some twist that makes it so the FMoD don't work "as planned". Usually this is followed by an exchange of moves from the wrestlers, then the real finish. Hell, good matches set up the FMoD sequence more than once a match, usually from both wrestler's aresenals, for false finishes. Drama... that's what it's all about.

 

[THE Great GAMMA]

Ok so you guys have missed the point of this post too. The point of the complaint of the FMoD is that the performer no sells the beating they took when mounting their 2 minute comeback to win. That was the point that was trying to be made with the post. Just saying.

 

[Slyfox696]

And this is where I am going to disagree with you slightly. While yes the "FMoD" is a "good" wrestling tactic, I think there is degrees of it. If it is done every single match that the guy wins his matches become pretty boring, see a large number of Cena matches from a time ago (ie. Super Cena era). I think that it is good when after it is established it only happens after a "hard fought" match. But when it is pulled out for every match it seems fairly lazy*. Using Cena's FMoD as an example, if he went for the cover after the fist drop, and got the occasional pinfall that way I doubt people would have a problem with it and it would make sense considering the fact that the guy got punched in the head while lying prone on the ground with their head against the ground and all that.

The tactic itself is good wrestling. No, it doesn't make sense to use it in a four minute TV match, but the psychology of the Five Moves of Doom is still very good.

Ok so you guys have missed the point of this post too. The point of the complaint of the FMoD is that the performer no sells the beating they took when mounting their 2 minute comeback to win. That was the point that was trying to be made with the post. Just saying.

Which has nothing to do with the Five Moves of Doom. At all. You don't seem to understand that a comeback has nothing to do with a Five Moves of Doom at all, they are completely independent of one another.

We very much got the point. The point was you were mistaken on something which you were trying to correct others on.

 

[Daniel]

The "five moves of doom" works very well as a wrestling tactic. It's a burst of energy and it gets the crowd going. If Cena (I'm going to be referring to Cena, although plenty of wrestlers use the tactic) is working a squash, he'll probably finish with it, if it's a normal match, he'll use it to provide a false finish. Both methods get the crowd excited, and that's the point. It sucks that when it comes to Cena it implies a limited move-set. Hart used it, he never gets accused of being limited in the ring. Same goes for Randy Orton.

 

[RicoLen]

5 Moves of Doom is exactly what I think the Divas division would benefit greatly from. Give 5 good moves, put in sequence and used routinely to Beth Phoenix and all that complaining about how she can't tell a story, or at least nearly all of it, would go away.

There's a lot of people in the WWE right now that badly need 5 more signature moves, and a routine to put them in to build towards the end of a match. In my opinion it should be a part of pro-wrestling 101 and the theme of an episode in both NXT & Tough Enough, developing your 5 moves of doom.

Look at Micheal McGuillicutty, aside from that twisting neckbreaker thing he does, I can't even think of one signature move of his. As a result, I find him boring to watch in the ring. But look at The Miz. That clothesline he delivers when his opponent is in the corner and Miz ends up sitting in between the ropes looking "awesome" at the crowd. That's not only a signature move, it's something that as a Miz fan you look forward to seeing him do every match. The 5 Moves of Doom is like your finisher combo. And if you don't have that developed, why are you even in the ring as anything but a jobber?

That's the way I look at it at least.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The term itself has been taken by the IWC and twisted for a completely different purpose than what it was originally intended to mean.

When it comes to the internet wrestling community, there is probably no single wrestler hated more than John Cena. On every forum you go to, you'll see some sort of anti-John Cena thread trashing Cena for one reason or another. One of the most popular tactics involves trying to use the Five Moves of Doom term as a metaphor for someone who is lousy inside a wrestling ring. Now for most of the people that take this and try to apply it to John Cena, there are any number of reasons. Some include just outright hating John Cena to a simply unreasonable degree, being anti-WWE in general, feel that "real wrestling" involves lots of flashy & often high risk moves and many others. Now while this is going on, these fans tend to ignore the fact that every wrestling great you can think of has a handful of signature moves that we often see from them in every match.

Many of them also seem to forget that pro wrestling thrives on storytelling, psychology, interesting chararcters & their ability to take what they say on a microphone and combine it with what they do in a wrestling ring to provide entertainment. Guys who flip and flop and fly around with big flashy moves are a dime a dozen in wrestling. The indy circuit is full of them but flashy moves with no storytelling, little to no use of psychology and not even bothering to sell the moves simply is not good enough to get it done on a stage as big as WWE. I know that some people don't like to hear that but that's just how it is.

There's more to a wrestling match than just the moves that make it up. You can put someone through as many flaming tables as you like, you can do a corkscrew moonsault off of the top of a 20 foot cage, you can even put your legs behind your head when doing a 450 splash. That's all well and good but if that's all you bring to the table, then you simply won't make a lasting impression. Cena knows how to work a crowd, he knows how to tell a story, he knows how to get fans emotionally invested in his feuds. Now if a wrestler is unable to do that, in my opinion, then he's a bad pro wrestler.

 

[TheCrusher]

Many of the best moments in wrestling spin off of the 5MoD. When a wrestler has a good set of signature moves, the audience draws in a breath as they recognize the start of the sequence. When the opponent finds a clever way of countering a move in that sequence, it throws an exciting swerve into the story.

I have seen some of the best stuff come off of Rey Mysterio's 619 sequence. Now, it's a little easier with him because his moves are big, and he is small. So, a wrestler can pick a spot and catch him in a power move just when the house thinks Rey is about to seal the win. By contrast, Rey is great at figuring out a way to squirm out of a power move and into a roll-up. Just when poor little Rey is doomed, he turns it into a nearfall and the match goes on.

Guys with quick-hitting "out of nowhere" moves are also great at turning around apparent signature move sequences. Benoit could turn darn near anything into a Crippler Crossface; Angle could roll through a lot of moves and come out with an ankle lock; DDP could hit the Diamond Cutter off of almost anything. There are as many examples out there as there have been great showmen in wrestling. Using an opponent's signature to set up one of yours is just good storytelling.

Signature moves work because they give the audience something they recognize and can anticipate. Sometimes those moves can be successful and the audience feels a great payoff. Sometimes they can be countered and the audience gets a surprise. Like it's been noted earlier in the thread, the story can work out either way as long as it's sold properly.

 

[Shadowmancer]

The tactic itself is good wrestling. No, it doesn't make sense to use it in a four minute TV match, but the psychology of the Five Moves of Doom is still very good.

Still it comes down to within reason. If it is done every match without fail above the TV match in the exact same format, the impact of it is reduced over time. Regardless of the time factor.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

The term "5 Moves of Doom" has been thrown around quite a bit around here and people keep on getting it wrong

Its not that the performer does the same moves. because everyone has a set moveset with room for an addition now and then for special occasions.

The "5 Moves of Doom" is the term used when a performer gets beaten on for 98% of a match and the most time spent on offense is the 2% which involves the a string of 4 or 5 moves and wins. typical example would be Hulk Hogan

The Hulkster gets beaten from pillar to post his bandana goes flying he is bleeding like faucet. and next thing you know he Hulks up throws a couple of punches. delivers the big boot. poses for two minutes and hits the leg drop. not selling a damn that he just had the stuffing beaten out of him.

The same can be said for what happens in a Cena match hell the Miz beat him around for about half an hour and yet Cena still wins.

People will say Yes but The Rock did the same thing i beg to differ. Whens the last time you see Cena or hogan hit the AA or the legdrop and not be able to make the cover straight away? and yet The Rock managed to sell his beating by not being able to make the cover after a Rock Bottom (and really all you have to do with that move is not let go of the guy and you got the pin)

So just to clarify and summerise.

The "5 moves of Doom" does not point a finger at the lack of variety of a performers moveset. But rather at the 2-3 minute amazing burst of energy that allows a dominated performer to pick up the win miraculously without showing any effects of the beating they just suffered.

Get off Rock's nuts. The amount of times Cena does his finishing run all the way through and gets a win are very few, especially at PPVs. Usually there are several counters.

You are right that the "5 moves of doom" are a finishing stretch for a babyface. It's used by all babyfaces. Luger would do 2 clotheslines, a forearm shiver, a power slam, then signal for the rack. Ezekial Jackson does 3 bodyslams, Cena does shoulder tackles, Bret Hart did an atomic drop, leg sweep, middle rope elbow, Hogan did 3 punches, big boot, leg drop. HBK would do an atomic drop, 3 clotheslines, a bodyslam, top rope elbow, SCM.

Every babyface has it. It's a tool. It gets the crowd progessively more excited because they know he's going for the win.

Heels have their own signatures too. It's their cut offs. Little ways they cheat to get the advantage after a babyface beats his ass the first few minutes. Flair would beg off then poke a guy in the face. They also have stuff they do to cut off a babyfaces hope spots like low blows or hair pulls.

Near the end of the match, the heel does what's called a "bump and feed" you bump, then get up quick to get knocked down again. Doing this with a lot of energy and pacing and looking like you're scared shitless and have no idea how to stop this offensive flurry from the babyface is one of the most important things a good heel can do. Scott Hall was excellent at it.

It's these types of things that the IWC doesn't even see because they don't notice it. They're too busy looking at the moves instead of the why. There is an art to the little details of a match. If a heel bumps slow and gets up slow and doesn't look despirate during the comeback (usually 2-3 strikes and a slam as you saw above), then the comeback doesn't have the energy or feeling and it doesn't get as over.

The "5 moves of doom", if nothing else, is a flag saying "get ready, shits about to hit the fan". It's kinda like when it's the bottom of the 9th, hometeam down by 1, runner on second, and they pinch hit their vet superstar you thought was too hurt to play. It gets people on their feet, gets them excited, and it makes them pay more attention to the match.

 

[Arcade]

I think the 5MoD tactic is intresting, but when it gets overused, the matches where the 5MoD user is in tends to get stale and boring. Cena is a prime example of this, but in big moments it seems like he puts the 5MoD to rest, so maybe he'll do the same at Summerslam.

 

[Wrestlingfan100]

EVERY wrestler has 5 a moves of doom, they just mix them up unlike Cena, Rey, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton who seldom or never do.

EX-

Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson- LaBelle lock
tigermask moonsault matrix corner evasion
shoot kicks to kneeling opponent's chest topped off
with a roundhouse buzzsaw to head/face
Guillotine choke
bridging german suplex

CM Punk- GTS
Anaconada Vice
corner shining wizard-bulldog combo
educated feet
snap scoop slam

Evan Bourne- diving double knee drop
standing moonsault{ touching kickers/knees 5 feet in mid-air}

educated feet-roundhouses, savates, enzuguries, leg lariats,
dropkicks/dropsaults, leaping high knee strike

catch-hand/chain wrestling-ussually targeting/working the arm

double foot stomp to seated/laying opponent

Air Bourne-ssp

Every wrestler has 5 common moves they use, they just switch it up.
Jericho, Punk, Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson, Sheamus and Evan Bourne are a few examples of guys who switch things up. Movesets really don't mean anything in WWE, on television you seldom witness a clinic
anymore, I'm a pure wrestling fan, I feel bad that performers don't have
that much lee-way and that booking is more "entertainment" than "wrestling" style but I'm only 17, my opinion doesn't matter to WWE.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

EVERY wrestler has 5 a moves of doom, they just mix them up unlike Cena, Rey, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton who seldom or never do.

EX-

Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson- LaBelle lock
tigermask moonsault matrix corner evasion
shoot kicks to kneeling opponent's chest topped off
with a roundhouse buzzsaw to head/face
Guillotine choke
bridging german suplex

CM Punk- GTS
Anaconada Vice
corner shining wizard-bulldog combo
educated feet
snap scoop slam

Evan Bourne- diving double knee drop
standing moonsault{ touching kickers/knees 5 feet in mid-air}

educated feet-roundhouses, savates, enzuguries, leg lariats,
dropkicks/dropsaults, leaping high knee strike

catch-hand/chain wrestling-ussually targeting/working the arm

double foot stomp to seated/laying opponent

Air Bourne-ssp

Every wrestler has 5 common moves they use, they just switch it up.
Jericho, Punk, Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson, Sheamus and Evan Bourne are a few examples of guys who switch things up. Movesets really don't mean anything in WWE, on television you seldom witness a clinic
anymore, I'm a pure wrestling fan, I feel bad that performers don't have
that much lee-way and that booking is more "entertainment" than "wrestling" style but I'm only 17, my opinion doesn't matter to WWE.

DB's corner thing isn't really part of his 5 moves, it's more of a transition or hope spot. Same with most things you mentioned form Bourne and DB. There's a difference between signature spots and the 5 move flurry. Signature spots are usually used for transitions or hope spots.

Cena and Orton and all those guys change their shit up. Look at the moves, they're a lot easier to chain together. DBs stuff isn't as easy to string together.

not only that but logically, your "better guys" (main eventers) SHOULD be able to string more moves together more often in kayfabe land.

What do you mean by "clinic"? Lots of moves? Coz you know how I feel about moves. It's always been "entertainment" and storytelling and less wrestling. Ever watch amateur wrestling? It's fuckin boring. Just seeing guys trade moves looks phoney. doing moves with a purpose and with a reason is better.

I don't get what you mean by "pure wrestling fan". Do you watch amateur wrestling? In the early 1900s, people worked the crowd and audience no different than they do now. The difference is they did more realistic moves because that's what sold. No there is more emphasis on an in ring story and less on chain wrestling because that's what sells. The two styles aren't really any different, they're both what draws the most, which is what a good pro wrestler does. If you're a true "pure" pro wrestling fan, then you like John Cena. Ask any old timer, the goal is to get over and be safe. Jerry Lawler could get a pop by removing the strap, Race could get over by headbutting some pretty boy in the face, THAT is the essense of pro wrestling, doing little things to get the crowd going. Not chain wrestling to get a courtesy applaus from 200 virgins.

 

[TheCrusher]

TWJC: Amateur wrestling is not boring. It's just that it's a sport and not entertainment and therefore has limitations. If you know what you're watching, an amateur match can be very exciting. It really helps if you go to a lot of tourneys and know a good deal about the wrestler's histories and styles. In a way, amateur wrestlers "get over" with the hardcore fans the same way as pros do. You just have to spend enough time there to know what's going on. If you watch an amateur enough, you can even begin to see that most of them have their 5MoD. Can't tell you the number of times I've seen a State finalist start a sequence and had a coach or knowledgeable fan sit next to me and say, "Here it comes!" and call out the sequence.

Anyway, I agree that a "clinic" can be as dull as anything if the characters are not over with the crowd in that role. Still, it's nice to have a guy or two on the roster who are the "master technicians." As long as the announcers sell it that way, and the opponent sells his frustration at never being able to come out of a chain on top, it can entertain. In the end of the match, though, there needs to be high spots and power moves or the audience will not be happy. Even if that power sequence ends with the technician getting a clever roll-up, it still works. But without the "high spots," a contemporary crowd won't react--except for the 200 virgins you mentioned.

 

[Wrestlingfan100]

DB's corner thing isn't really part of his 5 moves, it's more of a transition or hope spot. Same with most things you mentioned form Bourne and DB. There's a difference between signature spots and the 5 move flurry. Signature spots are usually used for transitions or hope spots.

Cena and Orton and all those guys change their shit up. Look at the moves, they're a lot easier to chain together. DBs stuff isn't as easy to string together.

not only that but logically, your "better guys" (main eventers) SHOULD be able to string more moves together more often in kayfabe land.

What do you mean by "clinic"? Lots of moves? Coz you know how I feel about moves. It's always been "entertainment" and storytelling and less wrestling. Ever watch amateur wrestling? It's fuckin boring. Just seeing guys trade moves looks phoney. doing moves with a purpose and with a reason is better.

I don't get what you mean by "pure wrestling fan". Do you watch amateur wrestling? In the early 1900s, people worked the crowd and audience no different than they do now. The difference is they did more realistic moves because that's what sold. No there is more emphasis on an in ring story and less on chain wrestling because that's what sells. The two styles aren't really any different, they're both what draws the most, which is what a good pro wrestler does. If you're a true "pure" pro wrestling fan, then you like John Cena. Ask any old timer, the goal is to get over and be safe. Jerry Lawler could get a pop by removing the strap, Race could get over by headbutting some pretty boy in the face, THAT is the essense of pro wrestling, doing little things to get the crowd going. Not chain wrestling to get a courtesy applaus from 200 virgins.

when I say pure wrestling, I mean I like ring work, I'm not an entertainment fan, I like catch-hand/chain wrestling and mat wrestling.
NOt highspots and stuff and by clinic I mean a wrestling clinic, I agree amuetur wrestling is boring but puro isn't. I like the in ring performance and in ring emotions and story telling, I hate spotfests that WWE has become.

 

[TheCrusher]

wrestlingfan100: I think that you have one of the problems I have as a wrestling fan. What we like isn't always what sells and gets the crowd going. Chain wrestling won't get the mainstream crowd going. I like it, but I'm the type of guy who will go to an amateur tourney and sit and watch ten straight hours of that, so I'm the last guy you want to talk to about what sells to WWE fans. But, I don't expect I'll be seeing amateur on primetime on a major cable network any time soon, so I have learned it's not worth trying to push for it.
But I also like to see the modern style of pro wrestling (when it is done well.) The signature moves, the showboating, the STORYTELLING of a well-executed WWE match are as entertaining to me as good old school wrestling. Where it gets frustrating is when the 5MoD aren't used to set up cool counters, hope spots and the like to make the match more dramatic. And if the characters and overall backstory aren't set up well, even a pretty well-executed match can seem a little flat.
Unless you're a monster heel, you shouldn't no-sell anything your opponent does. And I think that for the most part, the WWE gets that. The only part they sometimes miss is when the face comes up fresh as a daisy and suddenly closes the match and then dances around the ring. But I think even that might be on the wane.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

The 5 moves of doom is a signal to the fans that your about to see finishers countered in simple ways or that the match is going to end. That's it and every wrestler has them (unfortunately in someone who likes to see unique move aka me). I always wondered why some of these moves (orton ddt) are always countered and others (cena duck and powerbomb/ 5 knuckle shuffle) are almost never reversed. There is nothing wrong with them but they can get annoying. Next thing you know you'll be seeing them in gymnastics in china.