Except Killjoy answered the question exactly how it was needed.
2012 Debater's League: Smack Talk and General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter D-Man
- Start date
- Status
Except Killjoy answered the question exactly how it was needed.
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
I thought Rattlesnake did as well and I liked his responses better. Killjoy brought up rehab. That's nice and all, except Angle can take that deal at any time like I mentioned and WWE is even kind enough to remind their talent, both former and present, that they do offer rehab and they pay for it (if I'm not mistaken about the WWE sending out yearly letters, I'm not 100% sure on it). Also, if I'm not wrong, Vince did try to offer Angle rehab before he left and Angle didn't want to go. As far as the other things mentioned, they were all speculation and nothing concrete. Just because 'Taker is able to get a light schedule it doesn't mean Angle will have the same benefits.
Overall, I think it's more beneficial for Angle to stay in TNA where he'll never even get a slap of the wrist for things that can get you fired in the WWE. Rattlesnake did a good job and I think he was the stronger debater so that's why he got the points from me.
I thought it was more Rattlesnake talking about Angle being a whiny bitch about the WWE, and Killjoy actually talking benefits.
Did you even click on the link to the article that Killjoy used? It may have been in '08, but I'm fairly certain Vince would still offer it now to him.
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
I can see why it can seem that way, I guess I just saw it a different way.
Yes I did, and that if you saw not once was it even mentioned that's what anyone was thinking. Nick wrote that article and I don't think it was a good source at all. What makes him or anyone else think that Vince would offer him a lighter schedule? When was it pointed out in that article that Vince offered or would offer him a lighter schedule? Lastly, where is Nick getting this info from or is it just speculation? If that's the case, then I can speculate that Vince would've offered him the same type of schedule just about anyone else not named Shawn Michaels, Undertaker and Triple H have. See what I'm saying?
You gotta be kidding me. People look at the article differently because Nick fuckin' Paglino wrote it? You know, I know I shouldn't, but for one, Rattle's article's were also from this site and how am I losing punctuality if one of my posts came half an hour after his and he closed his side early letting me do two posts straight?
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
Killjoy, did you even bother to read those articles? The difference is that the ones Rattlesnake posted weren't things Nick wrote, instead they were things that Nick got from twitter and other places which were actually Angle's words, not something Nick came up with.
As far as to who it was, it could've been Nick or anyone else, and I would have still taken it with a grain of salt. I don't look at it differently because of who wrote but because of what the content was.
Good thing I didn't do some serious trash talking like Nightmare or Rattlesnake, otherwise I would be hiding in a small hole somewhere.
Good job Stormtrooper. You successfully kicked my ass in this debate. The topic was less than favorable for me, but that doesn't take away from what you did dude. Hats off to yeah.
Good job Stormtrooper. You successfully kicked my ass in this debate. The topic was less than favorable for me, but that doesn't take away from what you did dude. Hats off to yeah.
Yes I read them. And I'm still waiting on the benefits or lack thereof. The question was if returning to WWE would be more beneficial than staying in TNA, not if Kurt likes the company or not.
SavageTaker
Everybody Has A Price!
I understood why it wouldn't be beneficial for Kurt to come back to WWE. Maybe it wasn't as clear for you as it was for me, but either ways my decision will stay the same. If you still disagree then take it up with D-Man or Dagger.
Hulk Hogan's Brother
Stop asking me what I'm gonna do!!!
I really feel the need to point out that Killjoy argued as if he was playing EWR 4.0 on easy or medium. Killjoy's entire arguement was about WWE having benefits, Kurt accepting them and living happily ever after. Why the fuck will that happen?
I talk about Kurt being a whiny bitch because that actually shows that Kurt will never accept what WWE tells him to do and so going there will actually cause Kurt no good. I do not need to talk about Kurt's benefits in TNA even though I mentioned the freedom and the star treatment he gets there. I had to argue that Kurt would get his ass handed to him at every step in the WWE because he is a stubborn and an altogether difficult man. I thought I was successful and there were points that Killjoy could not answer.
Particularly when he mentioned ex-TNA employees like Christian and Foley signing up, I told him that these guys did not go out of their way to degrade WWE like Kurt had or had as many drug and alcohol issues as Kurt which makes Kurt a "less than sought after" guy for the WWE. I also reasoned exactly why Kurt would not get a light schedule in WWE, a point which Killjoy again could not counter, and how working a regular schedule would hurt him.
I certainly thought I did a pretty good job here and I, dare say, a better job than Killjoy who, at times, did not even care to understand the arguement I was making. Still, it all hinges on Nate's judgement and I would not whine if he ruled it against me.
Hulk Hogan's Brother
Stop asking me what I'm gonna do!!!
You forgot to mention that niether me nor nightmare got mauled like you did against Stormy. The scores suggest that we may still win.
I will put a barbed wire bat in you and your hole if you speak out of turn regarding me again.
(lights table on fire...)
1) I am not hiding. I had a birthday and spent time in RL having a great weekend.
2) I'm good at math and I posted faster than my opponent, yet lost points because? Rohan took longer to post than I did. That should mean I get the points if my understanding of the rules is correct. Apparently Killjoy had the same issue... Yet both of our comments about it went un-answered....
3) My opponents main argument was "He would make more money" and "If the WWE wanted him, they would want him for a reason". Well, you cant make more money if the company dosent want you and I proved that. In fact, my opponent agreed that the WWE doesnt want Morgan. So how can one benefit from a jump when it is a fact that said company doesnt care about\want said wrestler? Anyone that watches WWE knows there is no way in any universe that Matt f'n Morgan would go over the top 10 in the WWE to win the title.. Morgan said himself he wants a run, and im pretty sure I proved staying in TNA was his only shot.
4) My opponent dodged half of what I said. He had nothing to counteract most of the points I made. He even stated that THE ROCK, didnt have to go through FCW\development training when he came back, so why does that mean Morgan has to? Let that sink in.... He compared Matt Morgan to The Rock... Jesus Christ.
Mr. Steve was a more worthy opponent than Rohan. At least he earned my respect after the debate. Rohan created posts that tried to make people believe than Morgan should be booked over the best the WWE has to offer.
Hell, take a poll. Out of 100 people asked, does over half of them think that Morgan would ever be WWE\World Champion?
The only way Matt Morgan would ever be WWE\World Heavyweight Champion is if the top 25 guys in wrestling happened to die in a plane crash on the way to WrestleMania....
(slams a double shot of Jaeger and powerbombs a bag of puppies through the table)
Awesome_Miz
Proud LSN mentee
Oh what's this I posted a second reply. Yes I did!
Hulk Hogan's Brother
Stop asking me what I'm gonna do!!!
Killjoy had one very fast post but he had some posts where he took his time as well. I was more consistent.
Those interviews showed that Kurt would never accept rehab and all the other things that WWE provides which will only serve to hurt Kurt in WWE. Like I said, this is not Extreme Warfare Revenge. Just because you were too stupid to understand that point does not mean that ST was as well.
You're a whiny cunt. I didn't compare Morgan to The Rock, I used him as an example.
Personally, the only thing I disagree with about this entire tournament is the issue of punctuality. I say this with no sour grapes about round #1, and with my round #2 not having been judged yet. And I don't say this to criticize the judges at all as all four guys are doing a great job and giving their own free time voluntarily to do it. But I thought this was going to be about being on time, not about it being a race to see who can post the fastest.
If someone posts less than three times in a round, or if they miss the 24 hour deadline, they should forego the punctuality point. But as I see it, if both guys post on time and the right number of posts, they should split the punctuality points. Punctuality counts 20% of the score, and I don't agree that 20% should be awarded just for being faster, regardless of what is being said.
If my opponent posts, then I have 24 hours to respond. Let's say I respond in 6 hours. I consider that punctual. If he responds in 4 hours, he's not more punctual, he's simply faster, and I wasn't aware he would be rewarded for that (this is a hypothetical, I'm not talking about Killjoy or Paralyzer specifically). I think that in this example, the punctuality points should be split.
In round one, I felt I was punctual. I missed no deadlines and I posted the required 3 posts. But Killjoy was faster, so he got 3/4 punctuality points. In this example, I could not possibly have posted faster. I received one of Killjoy's responses in the middle of a work day; there was no possible way I could have responded faster. Another one was received in the middle of the night on a day I was working the next day. Again, impossible to be any faster. In both cases, I responded immediately after I got home from work,which was as soon as possible, yet I lost a lot of punctuality points. Reverse the punctuality points or even split them, and the results are probably different or are at least much closer.
This is not a complaint, just a little constructive criticism. Overall, it's been a lot of fun and I've really been enjoying it.
If someone posts less than three times in a round, or if they miss the 24 hour deadline, they should forego the punctuality point. But as I see it, if both guys post on time and the right number of posts, they should split the punctuality points. Punctuality counts 20% of the score, and I don't agree that 20% should be awarded just for being faster, regardless of what is being said.
If my opponent posts, then I have 24 hours to respond. Let's say I respond in 6 hours. I consider that punctual. If he responds in 4 hours, he's not more punctual, he's simply faster, and I wasn't aware he would be rewarded for that (this is a hypothetical, I'm not talking about Killjoy or Paralyzer specifically). I think that in this example, the punctuality points should be split.
In round one, I felt I was punctual. I missed no deadlines and I posted the required 3 posts. But Killjoy was faster, so he got 3/4 punctuality points. In this example, I could not possibly have posted faster. I received one of Killjoy's responses in the middle of a work day; there was no possible way I could have responded faster. Another one was received in the middle of the night on a day I was working the next day. Again, impossible to be any faster. In both cases, I responded immediately after I got home from work,which was as soon as possible, yet I lost a lot of punctuality points. Reverse the punctuality points or even split them, and the results are probably different or are at least much closer.
This is not a complaint, just a little constructive criticism. Overall, it's been a lot of fun and I've really been enjoying it.
DirtyJosé
Best angle of all: retirement
Meh. I could pick at some issues of the judging, but part of this whole thing is finding out what each judge wants to see and giving it to them.
I will say that I feel most who ended up with the argument of a jump hurting a particular performer fell into a trap of either defending a spot in TNA instead of highlighting where that could go for them, or highlighting why WWE wouldn't want them/they would want the WWE when it falls just outside the base of the debate which is whether it'd be a boon or a bust. I'll admit part of this was caused by it being easier to paint why the WWE would be a better place, but at the same time I feel like there was potential for a "better to reign in hell" kinda of argument that I just never saw materialize.
I will say that I feel most who ended up with the argument of a jump hurting a particular performer fell into a trap of either defending a spot in TNA instead of highlighting where that could go for them, or highlighting why WWE wouldn't want them/they would want the WWE when it falls just outside the base of the debate which is whether it'd be a boon or a bust. I'll admit part of this was caused by it being easier to paint why the WWE would be a better place, but at the same time I feel like there was potential for a "better to reign in hell" kinda of argument that I just never saw materialize.
hatehabsforever, here's my issue...
Once judges start splitting points, debates end in ties. In the past two seasons, this went from being a rarity to something that was TERRIBLY overused. It was almost if EVERY debate had tying points and winner's were never clearly decided. So, I tweaked the points system.
I understand that it may not be fair because everyone comes on at different times but in the interest of overall fairness and to avoid ties in the debates, this is the best way to handle things.
More importantly, Punctuality is 1/5 of the points you could receive. If you can't post faster than your opponent, then post better. It's not like Punctuality is the majority point. We leave that for Persuasion since the whole point of a debate is to convince judges that your side is the strongest argument. But there is still Clarity and Informative, as well.
If you can't get the upper hand with Punctuality, up your game in the other categories.
I just read ST's judgment of the Killjoy/Rattlesnake round, and all I can say is WOW. It just goes to show, it's never over until all judges make their decisions.
I can understand how such a huge swing in momentum could upset you, Killjoy, but let me remind you of one thing...
In 2009, tdigle was very rough on me. In the majority of the rounds in which I competed, if the other three judges gave me scores in my favor, tdigs was almost always there to favor the other side. Sometimes, it swayed the judging so much as to make me lose the debate. As a result, it made me stronger and more driven because I found myself no longer trying to debate my opponent in each round. Instead, I just wanted to win tdigs's favor. In the end, I won the fucking thing by beating IC25 in the finals, a bragging right that not many can lay claim to. Let this make you stronger like it did with me.
It ain't over until it's over, guys. Expect the unexpected. The judges, ultimately, are judging based on their opinions. It won't always go in your favor. So when it doesn't, dust yourselves off and move forward.
I can understand how such a huge swing in momentum could upset you, Killjoy, but let me remind you of one thing...
In 2009, tdigle was very rough on me. In the majority of the rounds in which I competed, if the other three judges gave me scores in my favor, tdigs was almost always there to favor the other side. Sometimes, it swayed the judging so much as to make me lose the debate. As a result, it made me stronger and more driven because I found myself no longer trying to debate my opponent in each round. Instead, I just wanted to win tdigs's favor. In the end, I won the fucking thing by beating IC25 in the finals, a bragging right that not many can lay claim to. Let this make you stronger like it did with me.
It ain't over until it's over, guys. Expect the unexpected. The judges, ultimately, are judging based on their opinions. It won't always go in your favor. So when it doesn't, dust yourselves off and move forward.
Lots of feedback from your Debater's League chairman this morning, guys...
It has been brought to my attention that Nate is having major computer problems and will probably be out until this Tuesday. Therefore, I'm assuming he will be unable to judge this round of the Winner's bracket. As a result, either Dagger or I must pick up the pieces. To make it fair, I'm flipping a coin. Dagger is heads and I am Tails.
And...................................................................
(FUCK) I won the toss. So, I'm going to finish out this round as its fourth judge.
Since its Easter and I celebrate this holiday, I may not finish it all tonight. But I will definitely try and keep this tournament moving, as I always promised it would. All I ask is for the other judges to finish today before the deadline, if they haven't already.
Good luck to the participants.
It has been brought to my attention that Nate is having major computer problems and will probably be out until this Tuesday. Therefore, I'm assuming he will be unable to judge this round of the Winner's bracket. As a result, either Dagger or I must pick up the pieces. To make it fair, I'm flipping a coin. Dagger is heads and I am Tails.
And...................................................................
(FUCK) I won the toss. So, I'm going to finish out this round as its fourth judge.
Since its Easter and I celebrate this holiday, I may not finish it all tonight. But I will definitely try and keep this tournament moving, as I always promised it would. All I ask is for the other judges to finish today before the deadline, if they haven't already.
Good luck to the participants.
Johnny Scumm
InZayn In The Membrane
Happy Easter to all & my debate finale has been posted.
Hulk Hogan's Brother
Stop asking me what I'm gonna do!!!
I don't know what happened between D-Man and tdigle but there is no chance that Savage Taker is biased towards anyone in this tournament, let alone me, or has a grudge against Killjoy. He merely judged on what he read and he found my arguements better. There is nothing else to it. I daresay, I found his judging better not only because of the points he awarded me but because he saw through the rumor that KJ tried to pass off as proof in the debate. It worked on CH but ST saw through it.
- Status