2011 Debaters League Discussion - NEW FORMAT NEEDS YOUR FEEDBACK!
- Thread starter D-Man
- Start date
Arrogant? Not really, just bereft of pointless false modesty.
It was one of the best debates the league generated that year. As memory serves it got a thread of the year nomination and won feud of the year. Why pretend otherwise just because I happened to be in it?
It was one of the best debates the league generated that year. As memory serves it got a thread of the year nomination and won feud of the year. Why pretend otherwise just because I happened to be in it?
Because it was something like three years ago... how many threads do you seriously think I remember?
Not that I particularly care; if being aware of my own ability as a poster is arrogance then sign me up. It's a far better alternative than feeling the need to patronize the entire population.
Not that I particularly care; if being aware of my own ability as a poster is arrogance then sign me up. It's a far better alternative than feeling the need to patronize the entire population.
DirtyJosé
Best angle of all: retirement
If you haven't accepted and loved Gelgarin for being Gelgarin, I don't know what to tell you. At least you know what you're getting with him.
Anyway, yes, yes, as much as I'd love to partake in revisionist history, Big Nick was last year's winner. I made it as far as the Semi-Finals, and I believe I debated him twice as a result (once in regular mode and once in post-season mode). We're 1-1, as I recall. I look forward to another round.
I'm all in for anything that goes down. I like the idea of speeding through a bit to make up for lost time. I also like something rather quick-ish in eliminations because it cuts down on the number of people who pledge their devotion to the event and then disappear. Provided realistic time is given around the upcoming holidays to ensure someone is fucked over because their girlfriend wants to go out of town to see the family, I think this is totally possible.
Also, Gelgs...if you don't feel like "patronizing the population", why bother speaking up for a league format in which others could "debate people your own level"? Isn't that what the non-spam zones are for? I mean, I'm all for including the every man if he thinks he has a shot, but if he doesn't then get him the fuck out of the way.
Anyway, yes, yes, as much as I'd love to partake in revisionist history, Big Nick was last year's winner. I made it as far as the Semi-Finals, and I believe I debated him twice as a result (once in regular mode and once in post-season mode). We're 1-1, as I recall. I look forward to another round.
I'm all in for anything that goes down. I like the idea of speeding through a bit to make up for lost time. I also like something rather quick-ish in eliminations because it cuts down on the number of people who pledge their devotion to the event and then disappear. Provided realistic time is given around the upcoming holidays to ensure someone is fucked over because their girlfriend wants to go out of town to see the family, I think this is totally possible.
Also, Gelgs...if you don't feel like "patronizing the population", why bother speaking up for a league format in which others could "debate people your own level"? Isn't that what the non-spam zones are for? I mean, I'm all for including the every man if he thinks he has a shot, but if he doesn't then get him the fuck out of the way.
Except your entire argument is "why not bring up other people instead of yourself".
Bringing up other people instead would have required trawling through three year old threads in order to find one of similar quality, and the only reason to do so would be out of some pandering necessity to avoid bring my own contribution up.
So yeah, it's entirely about me expressing my own ability, which I have already stated I see absolutely no problem with. False modesty is charming up to a point, but after half a decade it's simply patronizing and offensive.
Now since you're not actually disputing the accuracy of what I said, or the legitimacy of the point I was making, and are instead simply derailing D-man's thread, I suspect I'm done here. Further observations on my general tone can be PM'ed to somebody who cares... I recommend Slyfox.
Bringing up other people instead would have required trawling through three year old threads in order to find one of similar quality, and the only reason to do so would be out of some pandering necessity to avoid bring my own contribution up.
So yeah, it's entirely about me expressing my own ability, which I have already stated I see absolutely no problem with. False modesty is charming up to a point, but after half a decade it's simply patronizing and offensive.
Now since you're not actually disputing the accuracy of what I said, or the legitimacy of the point I was making, and are instead simply derailing D-man's thread, I suspect I'm done here. Further observations on my general tone can be PM'ed to somebody who cares... I recommend Slyfox.
Agreed, no need to derail his thread any longer.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
LOL Debate league AGAIN. You will just never learn, will you
ScreaminNormanSmiley
formerly ScreaminNormanSmiley
This thread really does need to stop being derailed. I think another post about that might just do the job!
I think you mean "their" own level. And don't equate 'me thinking I'm a better poster than most people' to me thinking that I'm more deserving of fun than others.
The reason I spoke up is because I think people are losing sight of what this event is actually for. It's not actually for crowning the best debater on the forum; more often than not most of the best posters don't even enter. As I see it the whole point of an event like this is for simple fun, and adopting a formula designed to exclude everybody who isn't in with a shot of winning the final as soon as possible isn't fun... at least, it isn't for all the people who get excluded in the first round, which is almost everyone who enters.
My point was that the ideal structure should be whatever is judged to provide the most fun to the most people. That's why a league was ideal, but if a league is unmanageable then a tournament would be preferable. People have a much higher chance of meeting an opponent of a similar level to themselves, they have a much higher chance of making it through to a second or third debate, the tournament will take much less time to run, be considerably fairer, but a little less ambiguous in terms of final standings and most importantly will encourage far more actual debating, which is sort of what we're going for here.
DirtyJosé
Best angle of all: retirement
That was kinda the point, but I was using your words.
Not at all.
I'm not entirely on board with your suggestions and ideas, but the bolded bit I can agree on.
As for "best" posters not actually taking part and hence not actually being a credible "best debater" contest...fuck 'em. If they can't or won't show up, then the title falls to someone else. Not that I would, like, take that title or anyone who holds it much more seriously than I would now, but c'mon; this is a wrestling forum. Gimmicks like that were built for places like this. It should be fun. It shouldn't feel like torture, either in participating or running it. But it should also have a real streak of competition to it. Part of what excited me into joining last year was the chance to show up "established" posters, and without that sense of competitiveness, the whole event loses something.
But a tournament will be just as competitive, it'll just be fairer and more fun for more people.
Let me put it like this:
My general structure is used for the World Cup, the Superbowl and King of the Ring.
D-Man's basic structure is used for Countdown.
Where do you think the best competition is found?
Let me put it like this:
My general structure is used for the World Cup, the Superbowl and King of the Ring.
D-Man's basic structure is used for Countdown.
Where do you think the best competition is found?
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
HOW DARE YOU!!! People keep the banner in their sig and everything!! This shit is real out here!!!
DirtyJosé
Best angle of all: retirement
Ok, you kinda have me sold.
Remy LaCroix
Lou Thesz' Favorite Son
If it didn't take me half an hour to write a coherent paragraph I'd join.
Hyorinmaru
Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
I said it once and I'll say it again I'll be in this whether it be a judge or a participant
tl;dr. It's Mortal Kombat now, I wanna deliver a Fatality!
I get asked about it every day. I figured that if I found a quicker, more efficient way to run it, maybe it wouldn't be so fucking atrocious every year.
Here's a question: How many teams up and quit during the World Cup, Superbowl and King of the Ring?
Exactly.
Gelgarin, in a perfect world, minimal amounts of posters would turn the league into the biggest pain in the ass since Lord Sidious. But, once again, I'm not looking out for the masses on this one. I'm looking for the most failproof way to run this thing. If I have to sacrifice the standard of tournament gameplay and reinvent the wheel, so be it. That's better than scrambling every week to find replacements for irresponsible ass holes.
My method causes less work for everyone, weeds out dedicated posters from non-dedicated posters, and allows many participants to be champions; even if it's for a short period of time. It will still be effective, just not to the effect that you keep defending.
Now, if you want to run the league and use the old rules, then by all means. But if your part is only of a participant (if at all) then the old method is out of the question. The point of this thread was to get feedback on how to make this new method better, in case there were things I didn't cover that could cause stalemates or any other reasons for the tournament to cease from finishing.
People don't no-show countdown either; how is that relevant? A tournament weeds out no-shows just as swiftly whilst simultaneously allowing all of those who do show up the opportunity to actually have some debates. Rather than telling 90% of the forum that they aren't really welcome to play because they can't be trusted to turn up.
My way or the highway eh? If that's your philosophy then my participation will be (not at all), but as a parting gift, here is the second biggest hole in your proposed plan.
It will take a stupidly long time.
When I was in the debate league I would estimate that there were at least twenty-four competitors. Now given that everyone is on different time-zones you need a few days to have a half way decent debate, usually with a couple of days afterwards for judging to take place. As such, assuming everything runs smoothly you're looking at roughly a week per debate. You're method calls for twenty-three back to back debates, which means that it will take approximately six months just to get to the second round.
Compare that to a tournament where everyone could have twice as long for each debate, and the whole thing would still be over in less than half the time.
I suppose you could potentially chop down to debate time, but there is a major limit to what two people in different parts of the world can accomplish with less that a week. Forcing people to keep playing for half a year would indeed highlight the most dedicated posters, but it would also turn the contest into a complete farce.
My way or the highway eh? If that's your philosophy then my participation will be (not at all), but as a parting gift, here is the second biggest hole in your proposed plan.
It will take a stupidly long time.
When I was in the debate league I would estimate that there were at least twenty-four competitors. Now given that everyone is on different time-zones you need a few days to have a half way decent debate, usually with a couple of days afterwards for judging to take place. As such, assuming everything runs smoothly you're looking at roughly a week per debate. You're method calls for twenty-three back to back debates, which means that it will take approximately six months just to get to the second round.
Compare that to a tournament where everyone could have twice as long for each debate, and the whole thing would still be over in less than half the time.
I suppose you could potentially chop down to debate time, but there is a major limit to what two people in different parts of the world can accomplish with less that a week. Forcing people to keep playing for half a year would indeed highlight the most dedicated posters, but it would also turn the contest into a complete farce.
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
I won last year, you mopes.
Technically, we are 1-1. I had to forfeit our first match (I was in the middle of moving).
The man makes a solid point. It's about having fun. I won last year, but that doesn't mean I'm the best "debater" on this site. I was the best in that league. I think several guys (Coco, Sam, Sly, Xfear, Gelgarin... that's it) are, at the very least, as good, if not better than myself. I'd love to do it again, in whatever format everyone accepts.
All of that being said, I hope the best guys actually take part this time around. I'm not saying you have some sort of obligation to do so, because you don't. However, I think it would make for a much better league. I don't care if I lose every round, I'm just hoping the top guys join in.
DirtyJosé;3524705 said:
Technically, we are 1-1. I had to forfeit our first match (I was in the middle of moving).
The man makes a solid point. It's about having fun. I won last year, but that doesn't mean I'm the best "debater" on this site. I was the best in that league. I think several guys (Coco, Sam, Sly, Xfear, Gelgarin... that's it) are, at the very least, as good, if not better than myself. I'd love to do it again, in whatever format everyone accepts.
All of that being said, I hope the best guys actually take part this time around. I'm not saying you have some sort of obligation to do so, because you don't. However, I think it would make for a much better league. I don't care if I lose every round, I'm just hoping the top guys join in.
Captain Morgan Freeman
Taught Elvis how to play karate
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for by creating this thread. I had a feeling that something didn't calculate right. I'll look into this.
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