2008-09 NFL Thread

[Lyez. D]

Not to anyone in specific, this won't even come off as mean...I hope all the Giant haters eat their words and give them props.

NY all the way!

The picture is set:

AFC Confrence Finals
N.E Patriots v. San Diego Chargers

NFC Confence Finals
N.Y Giants v G.B Packers

 

[RBH]

As much as I would have liked to see New England lose, I despise the Giants. So the Pattriots are going to kill the Giants in the Super Bowl. Tom Brady will not have 2 bad games in a row. He will recover and the Giants will finally wither and die and Peyton Manning will have to confort his brother. No in reality, New England has a great goal line defense and like today, that will be the difference in the Super Bowl. The team that scores touchdowns compared to the team that score field goals.

 

[RBH]

The last posty of this thread. The Patriots had a great season but they are NOT the best team of all time. That still belongs to the Miami Dolphins of 72 the Chicago Bears of 85 and of course any of the San Francisco 49er teams that won the Super Bowls. The Pats did not get the job done and that is a fact. NFC beat the AFC this year and now everyone can finally shut up about the AFC being the "dominant division" I see a turnaround beginning starting this year and the NFC dominating very very soon just like in the 90s.

 

[BooCocky]

I cant believe the NFL season is over. Good season imo. The Pats had a good season, but they couldn't get the job done

Eli Manning and the Giants pulled through. Played one helluva game. Their defense was spectacular. That defense held the Pats to 14 points when the Pats averaged around 37 pts per game. Eli Manning was able to execute a good drive with under 3 minutes to go.. He showed good pocket presence, and pocket awareness, and was really good the entire game. The only mistake was an INT that should have been caught. I still have no idea how he avoided that rush on the last drive. He must've have watched some Roethlisberger videos

Manning did not buckle under pressure, and hopefully he can shush the critics, but that is highly unlikely playing in NY. He showed the people of NFL that he was worth the first pick in the NFL draft.

The next step in the NFL season is the pro bowl and the NFL draft in April.. Hopefully the Steelers can fulfill their needs. Tall receiver cough Mario Manningham cough. They also need lineman on both sides of the ball, and they need some secondary, but i can not wait until next year.

 

[Lil Wes]

First off,

I still have no idea how he avoided that rush on the last drive. He must've have watched some Roethlisberger videos

Nope. No way. That's classic Tony Romo that Eli pulled.

Second, *tear*

Ahhhh, What a good season we had this year. Can't believe it's already over. What a shocker that the Giants are the new Super Bowl champs. Nobody would have thought during the preseason. Great game, not the greatest but it was good IMO. Eli proved alot to me and probably alot of others in the game winning drive. I didn't watch a whole lot of the game but Eli got MVP and played solid so maybe he's taking the next step.

As for the Pats...

Biggest choke in NFL history. Hands down. You don't run the table and get your fans talking all sorts of trash and then lay an egg in the Super Bowl. The offense was horrendous and the defense got mopped in the final minutes. It's just hilarious that the Giants...THE FUCKING GIANTS!!!! pulled the upset.

I look forward to next season, although I usually look forward to the draft, this year's class looks to be shit.

Great season though. Thumbs up to Goddell for making a good script and even better chokefest in the Super Bowl....

 

[X]

What a disappointing end to such a great season. Well, disappointing to me.

But a few things need to be said. Just because they lost that game, does not suddenly make the 2007 Patriots a bad team as you all seem to now think. They still went 18-0, something no team has ever done, they still finished a 16 game regular season undefeated, they still won more consecutive games then the 72 Dolphins or any other team in the history of the NFL. THE HISTORY! So stop your shit talking. We choked, big time. Nothing else I can say about that. I'm a man, I'll come on here and own up to all that trash talking I did this season.

But Coolhayek man, no way in hell were any Bears or 49ers team as good as this team was. Records show that. Facts show that. I've seen the Montana and Steve Young led 49ers, I've seen the Bears of 85 (hello, Patriots fan here, was forced to watch that devastating loss in the Super Bowl to them on tape as mandatory education viewing by my father) and none of them were as good as the Pats were this year.

And in my humble opinion, neither were the 72 Dolphins. Why? Because they played in completely different eras. The NFL in 1972 was like a fuckin' pee wee league compared to the NFL in 2007. Thats the god honest truth, and to deny that is just stupid. Everything evolves, especially sports. Kids are trained harder, recruited harder, and expected to perform at much higher levels, causing them to suceed at much higher levels.

The Patriots beat much better teams this year then any the Dolphins faced in 1972. Dolphins opponents combined winning percentage for that year? .396 The Patriots opponents combined winning percentage for this year? .519

Huge difference in quality of opponents.

We choked. It sucks. Just trying to focus completely on the Celtics now and the upcoming Spring Training....

Congrats to Giants fans; you can finally stop your constant bitching about every single minor mistake your team makes in a season. Hopefully. Probably not though. New York fans are never satisfied.

 

[RBH]

Well if you call Terry Bradshaw, Larry Csonka, Joe Namath, Johnny Unitas pee wee, okay dude whatever u say. The Niners had a super offense man. They led the league in scoring for many many years thanks to Bill Walsh's genius and Joe Montana's arm. The Giants figured out what I have known all along. You hit Brady, you win. It's simple as that. No one and I mean NO ONE did shit to put pressure on Brady all year. They all played cover defense and multiple coverages of Moss. The thing is, you have to and I mean HAVE TO overpower an offensive line if you have a great QB like Brady, same with Montana and Young. The Pats, IMO, were not prepared to be flexible. They had one gameplan and they failed miserably no offense. They could have won if they had a few more different plays or if they ran the ball earlier possibly but who knows. Anyways you are right it was a great season but you can never kno0w who would have won matchups between these Pats and the past 49ers/Dolphins, different eras just like you said.

 

[BooCocky]

But a few things need to be said. Just because they lost that game, does not suddenly make the 2007 Patriots a bad team as you all seem to now think. They still went 18-0, something no team has ever done, they still finished a 16 game regular season undefeated, they still won more consecutive games then the 72 Dolphins or any other team in the history of the NFL. THE HISTORY! So stop your shit talking.

But losing in the SB wouldn't make them the greatest team of all time, like you once said. The Dolphins were able to go undefeated and win the SB unlike those Pats.

But Coolhayek man, no way in hell were any Bears or 49ers team as good as this team was. Records show that. Facts show that. I've seen the Montana and Steve Young led 49ers, I've seen the Bears of 85 (hello, Patriots fan here, was forced to watch that devastating loss in the Super Bowl to them on tape as mandatory education viewing by my father) and none of them were as good as the Pats were this year.

Wait, Wait, but that 85 Bears team and those 49'er teams won the SB, unlike the Pats, they were able to get it done, who cares if they lost 1 game, 4 games or six games, as long as one of those losses dont happen in the playoffs or the SB. So a team that lost in the SB is better than two teams that one the SB? I dont see how that works?

And in my humble opinion, neither were the 72 Dolphins. Why? Because they played in completely different eras. The NFL in 1972 was like a fuckin' pee wee league compared to the NFL in 2007. Thats the god honest truth, and to deny that is just stupid. Everything evolves, especially sports. Kids are trained harder, recruited harder, and expected to perform at much higher levels, causing them to suceed at much higher levels.

Wait, So Bradshaw,Stabler,Staubach,Franco Harris, Greenwood, Jack Ham, Dierdorf and Art Shell, Youngblood plus many more were all pushovers? Bradshaw is a great, so is Staubach, LC Greenwood was a good pall player, so was Lambert, Shell was a good tackle, so i just dont see how they were pee wee football players. Possibly the size difference but that doesnt make them Pee Wee football players.


Now onto the NFL draft, the Steelers have multiple options in who they can draft, an OL, a WR, or even secondary help. They have so many offers, that lineman from Vanderbilt who can play guard and tackle. Limas Sweed, and Doucet might be available, so they could help at receiver but IMO Manningham would the better option, or hopefully that DB Aqib Talib will fall. Probably not, but it would be awesome, but they need so much so i dont even nowhere to start...

 

[X]

But losing in the SB wouldn't make them the greatest team of all time, like you once said. The Dolphins were able to go undefeated and win the SB unlike those Pats.

You're right, they aren't the greatest team of all time. Have I said that since they lost? Nope.

Wait, Wait, but that 85 Bears team and those 49'er teams won the SB, unlike the Pats, they were able to get it done, who cares if they lost 1 game, 4 games or six games, as long as one of those losses dont happen in the playoffs or the SB. So a team that lost in the SB is better than two teams that one the SB? I dont see how that works?

This is precisely why I've always thought football playoffs should be best-of series just like every other sport. It makes no sense for it not to be. The Patriots of 2007, IMO, were more talented, had a better coach, and better personnel then any of those teams. And all of these teams played in very different times. The NFL of the 80s and before was not even half as talented as it is today, not even half.

Thats like matching up a team that went undefeated in Division II against a team that won all of their games but one in Division I. Know who the better team would be? You got it, the Division I team.

I stand by my opinion that the Patriots of 2007, could beat the 72 Dolphins, the 85 Bears, or the 49ers led by Montana or Young.

Wait, So Bradshaw,Stabler,Staubach,Franco Harris, Greenwood, Jack Ham, Dierdorf and Art Shell, Youngblood plus many more were all pushovers? Bradshaw is a great, so is Staubach, LC Greenwood was a good pall player, so was Lambert, Shell was a good tackle, so i just dont see how they were pee wee football players. Possibly the size difference but that doesnt make them Pee Wee football players.

Did I say they were pushovers? Nope. But yeah actually, every last one of those you just named are terribly overrated. Not a single one of them could hold a candle to a player in their position today, and that includes Staubach and Bradshaw(who's won more Super Bowls while contributing the least of any team ever). So yeah, compared to the NFL of today, I'm calling that a pee-wee league. Thats like comparing the MLB of the 50s to the MLB of today. Totally and completely different. Things evolve to get better.


I still don't think the Pats of 07 are the best team of all time though, simply because they didn't win the Super Bowl, and they need to have done that to be considered that. For now the 72 Dolphins hold that record. But as they say, on Any Given Sunday any team can win.

 

[RBH]

Evolution makes sports better! The best thing u have EVER said XFEARBEFORE, it is the sole reason why we watch the sports we love, to see our beloved sports icons evolve and play better and win more titles. I cant say that the Niners doing badly is too depressing for me as a sports fan because I at least have a Stanley Cup last year and a baseball and basketball (Angels/Lakers) title to look back on in recent years.

The Patriots are going to have to adress their biggest and only weakness in the offseason and that would be their secondary. Gay and Samuel are free agents and Harrison wants to retire.

As for the Niners, we need a couple wide recievers and some held with the offensive line and we should be okay. Better than the crap that played on the field last year. Offensive Line=healthy quarterback+good wide recievers=POINTS. THATS A FACT!

 

[BooCocky]

This is precisely why I've always thought football playoffs should be best-of series just like every other sport. It makes no sense for it not to be. The Patriots of 2007, IMO, were more talented, had a better coach, and better personnel then any of those teams.

What about any of those Steeler teams in the 70's? Possibly the greatest front seven to ever play the game, two solid big game receivers and a big game coach, and QB. LIne-Up Via paper, and the Steelers match those Patriots hand in hand

And all of these teams played in very different times. The NFL of the 80s and before was not even half as talented as it is today, not even half.

How is that because people are bigger today? Tell that too Jerry Rice, and Joe Montana and so forth

Thats like matching up a team that went undefeated in Division II against a team that won all of their games but one in Division I. Know who the better team would be? You got it, the Division I team.

Thats college football, and they are Division 1 players for a reason. Football in the 70's and 80's were hard nose football, power running, and tenacious defense.

I stand by my opinion that the Patriots of 2007, could beat the 72 Dolphins, the 85 Bears, or the 49ers led by Montana or Young.

That is terrific, too bad the 85 Bears and the 72 Dolphins won the SB.

But yeah actually, every last one of those you just named are terribly overrated. Not a single one of them could hold a candle to a player in their position today, and that includes Staubach and Bradshaw(who's won more Super Bowls while contributing the least of any team ever).

Thats ridiculous, here you go, Terry Bradshaw has won 4 Sb's and only Montana can say that. The only time Bradshaw really didint contribute was in 1974. Sb, 1975, Bradshaw threw the ball for 209 yds... Solid game. 1978, another SB year, he was the most valuable player(NFL MVP), and threw a league high 28 Td Passes... He didn't contribute at all during that season .. Most valuable player in that SB by throwing for 300+ yds, and 4 td's. In 1979, he had another 300 yd game, and two td's.. Damn Terry, you did not contribute at all. LC Greenwood, yeah tenth round draft pick, 6th time pro Bowler, and, 6 time all pro selection... Overrated .. Jack Lambert, hmm, made all decade team in two decades, 70's and 80's, he is part of the twenty twenty club, he is a 9 time pro bowler, and a defensive player of the year...Jack Youngblood, jeez i dont even need to go into his career.

So yeah, compared to the NFL of today, I'm calling that a pee-wee league. Thats like comparing the MLB of the 50s to the MLB of today. Totally and completely different. Things evolve to get better.

who cares, doesnt make them less of a football player, now does it? SO Jim Brown shouldn't be an all time great because he played in the late 50's - mid 60's? So Babe Ruth cant be compared to Barry Bonds, because they played in different era's?

 

[X]

What about any of those Steeler teams in the 70's? Possibly the greatest front seven to ever play the game, two solid big game receivers and a big game coach, and QB. LIne-Up Via paper, and the Steelers match those Patriots hand in hand


How is that because people are bigger today? Tell that too Jerry Rice, and Joe Montana and so forth

Thats college football, and they are Division 1 players for a reason. Football in the 70's and 80's were hard nose football, power running, and tenacious defense.


That is terrific, too bad the 85 Bears and the 72 Dolphins won the SB.




Thats ridiculous, here you go, Terry Bradshaw has won 4 Sb's and only Montana can say that. The only time Bradshaw really didint contribute was in 1974. Sb, 1975, Bradshaw threw the ball for 209 yds... Solid game. 1978, another SB year, he was the most valuable player(NFL MVP), and threw a league high 28 Td Passes... He didn't contribute at all during that season .. Most valuable player in that SB by throwing for 300+ yds, and 4 td's. In 1979, he had another 300 yd game, and two td's.. Damn Terry, you did not contribute at all. LC Greenwood, yeah tenth round draft pick, 6th time pro Bowler, and, 6 time all pro selection... Overrated .. Jack Lambert, hmm, made all decade team in two decades, 70's and 80's, he is part of the twenty twenty club, he is a 9 time pro bowler, and a defensive player of the year...Jack Youngblood, jeez i dont even need to go into his career.


who cares, doesnt make them less of a football player, now does it? SO Jim Brown shouldn't be an all time great because he played in the late 50's - mid 60's? So Babe Ruth cant be compared to Barry Bonds, because they played in different era's?

Yeah actually Brian, that was my whole point right there. Different eras, completely different. The players today are train so much harder, for so much longer, and at such a younger age. The athletes in the NFL today would make the old fat-belly linemen of the 70s look pathetic.

As for Terry Bradshaw...everyone knows that guy was second fiddle on his team. Just like any QB in Pittsburgh usually is, especially in the 70s when the Pittsburgh defense was at it's most fierce. Defense won them those seasons, Bradshaw just had to sit back behind the line and toss it out.

Thats not to say Bradshaw isn't a legend, he is. I'm just saying that he wasn't the main contributor to those Super Bowls the Steelers had in the 70s.

And your comparison of the 70s Steelers and 07 Pats amuses me. 70s Steelers wouldn't stand a chance. How exactly do they match up? The Pats have the edge in every category I can think of except for pass defense and maybe rushing game.

 

[BooCocky]

As for Terry Bradshaw...everyone knows that guy was second fiddle on his team. Just like any QB in Pittsburgh usually is, especially in the 70s when the Pittsburgh defense was at it's most fierce. Defense won them those seasons, Bradshaw just had to sit back behind the line and toss it out.

Wait so his 212 career touchdowns were never a factor? It is not like Bradshaw was a tenth round draft pick...He was the first pick in the draft.

Thats not to say Bradshaw isn't a legend, he is. I'm just saying that he wasn't the main contributor to those Super Bowls the Steelers had in the 70s.[/QUOTE
Explain his success though, especially in 3 out of the 4 games? He did contribute and was a big reason on why they won

And your comparison of the 70s Steelers and 07 Pats amuses me. 70s Steelers wouldn't stand a chance. How exactly do they match up? The Pats have the edge in every category I can think of except for pass defense and maybe rushing game.

Here you Go
Steelers QB
Terry Bradshaw

Pats QB
Tom Brady

Bradshaw performed better and has more rings.

Steelers RB
Rocky Bleier
Franco Harris

Pats
Maroney
Faulk

Give me Steelers. New England wasnt to good against power running games

The Pats have the edge in receiving.

Defense now
The Steelers were more sound defensively with that front seven and their secondary wasn't bad.
They had a defense full of Pro bowlers and All Pros.

The Steelers defense was more sound, their offense was pretty potent, passing, and running the football, and Bradshaw didnt make too many mistakes in big games. They had a great offense with a good line, two solid runningbacks, two HOF receivers a HOF coach. IMO edge to the Burgh.

 

[X]

Wait so his 212 career touchdowns were never a factor? It is not like Bradshaw was a tenth round draft pick...He was the first pick in the draft.

Bradshaw was good at just chucking the ball out there. NO accuracy at all, the man had literally TWO more TDs in his career then he did interceptions. That's not very good at all. The man's QB rating is 70.9. Not exactly stellar.

Here you Go
Steelers QB
Terry Bradshaw

Pats QB
Tom Brady

LOL, Bradshaw isn't even half the QB Brady is. Here you Go

Terry Bradshaw Career Stats[13 Years Pro, All Starting]
212 TDs-210 INTs
27,989 YDs
QB Rating: 70.9
3 Pro Bowls
3 All Pros
Record as a Starter: 107-51 (0.677 Winning Percentage)

Tom Brady Career Stats [8 Years Pro, 7 Years Starting]
197 TDs-86 INTs
26,370 YDs
QB Rating: 92.9
4 Pro Bowls
2 All Pros
Record as a Starter: 100-27 (0.787 Winning Percentage

Brady has better numbers, easily. In only 7 years starting, Tom Brady has nearly as many TDs and passing YDs that Bradshaw did in 13 years. Brady has a much better winning record as a starter, has gone to more Pro Bowls in a shorter time, and has a MUCH better QB rating. All of this in half of the time it took Bradshaw to get his numbers. Brady is easily the better QB. Not to mention, hello, 2007 season? 50 TDs? Ring any bells? Brady > Bradshaw any fucking day.

Bradshaw performed better and has more rings.

Bradshaw had 1 more ring then Brady does, and that's in double the amount of time playing. Not to mention Brady won more rings in a shorter period of time. Both won Super Bowl MVPs 2 times, so you can't exactly say "Bradshaw performed better". For that matter, no one, and I mean NO ONE has EVER played better under pressure then Tom Brady has. 9 out of 10 times when you've got 90 seconds left to go from your own 10 and score a TD for the win, he's going to get it done. Wouldn't trust Bradshaw to do that.

Give me Steelers. New England wasnt to good against power running games

Then explain why they were top 10 in the NFL in rush defense this year.

Defense now
The Steelers were more sound defensively with that front seven and their secondary wasn't bad.
They had a defense full of Pro bowlers and All Pros.

So do the Patriots. Almost every member of the Pats defense is a pro-bowler at one time. Let's see here...Rodney Harrison, Junior Seau, Adalius Thomas, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Asante Samuel...thats a STACKED defense with boatloads of talent at every position. Every one of those guys are among the best in the NFL at their position, some (Seau) are some of the best to EVER play their position.

Steelers defense of the 70s was ridiculiously good. And I have no idea who'd win in the battle of the defenses here, but I'd trust the Pats seconday with Asante Samuel over the no-name Steelers secondary.

The Steelers defense was more sound, their offense was pretty potent, passing, and running the football, and Bradshaw didnt make too many mistakes in big games. They had a great offense with a good line, two solid runningbacks, two HOF receivers a HOF coach. IMO edge to the Burgh.

Defense was about even, the Steelers offense was a sad pathetic joke compared to the offense of the 07 Patriots, not even worth comparing the two. Rushing edge goes to Steelers, but Brady is WAAAAAY better then Bradshaw. Like, a LOT better. Patriots O-line was better this year, our recieving corps this year puts the Steelers to absolute shame, and Bill Belichick is twice the coach that Chuck Noll could've ever hoped to be.

Edge goes to the Patriots, no doubt about it.

 

[BooCocky]

Bradshaw was good at just chucking the ball out there. NO accuracy at all, the man had literally TWO more TDs in his career then he did interceptions. That's not very good at all. The man's QB rating is 70.9. Not exactly stellar.

Who cares, Football is a game of winning?

LOL, Bradshaw isn't even half the QB Brady is. Here you Go

Can you explain Bradshaws success?

Brady has better numbers, easily. In only 7 years starting, Tom Brady has nearly as many TDs and passing YDs that Bradshaw did in 13 years. Brady has a much better winning record as a starter, has gone to more Pro Bowls in a shorter time, and has a MUCH better QB rating. All of this in half of the time it took Bradshaw to get his numbers. Brady is easily the better QB. Not to mention, hello, 2007 season? 50 TDs? Ring any bells? Brady > Bradshaw any fucking day.

Alright explain Bradshaws 4 SB's in 6 years? Explain his success in the big game? Explain how the man was accurate, had a strong arm, and was patient when it came to the big games? So honestly i dont see where you are heading when you do this? Bradshaw played on a based running team with two stellar backs. Hello, Franco Harris anyone?

Bradshaw had 1 more ring then Brady does, and that's in double the amount of time playing. Not to mention Brady won more rings in a shorter period of time.

Since what? 4 Superbowls in 6 yrs? Brady has 3 in 7 years. You do the math.

Both won Super Bowl MVPs 2 times, so you can't exactly say "Bradshaw performed better". For that matter, no one, and I mean NO ONE has EVER played better under pressure then Tom Brady has. 9 out of 10 times when you've got 90 seconds left to go from your own 10 and score a TD for the win, he's going to get it done. Wouldn't trust Bradshaw to do that.

Bradshaw never lost a SB, Brady now has. How wouldn't you trust Bradshaw when he is a proven winner and was clutch?

Then explain why they were top 10 in the NFL in rush defense this year.

Because that defense was hiding behind that offense. See games where they lost or almost lost, and if it wasn't for the defenses immaturity they would have lost. McGahee had a solid game, Bradshaw, and Jacobs had solid games, and they lost, and see what happened to Brady when a front seven was good at pressuring someone? He choked...

So do the Patriots. Almost every member of the Pats defense is a pro-bowler at one time. Let's see here...Rodney Harrison, Junior Seau, Adalius Thomas, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Asante Samuel...thats a STACKED defense with boatloads of talent at every position. Every one of those guys are among the best in the NFL at their position, some (Seau) are some of the best to EVER play their position.

here, i will give you a couple years, of defense and pro bowlers

1974. Steelers Pro Bowlers on defense
Joe Green
Jack Lambert
Jack Ham
Andy Russel

1975
Mel Blount
Glen Edwards
Ernie Holmes (RIP)
Jack Ham
Jack Lambert
Mike Wagner

1978
Joe Greene
Greenwood
Ham
Lambert
Shell
Wagner

1979
Blount
Ham
Lambert
Shell

Thats only on the defense.. the Steelers defense was stacked, no matter which team you look at. In addition, some other players were also pro bowlers at one time or another.

Steelers defense of the 70s was ridiculiously good. And I have no idea who'd win in the battle of the defenses here, but I'd trust the Pats seconday with Asante Samuel over the no-name Steelers secondary.

Mel Blount, Donnie Shell, or even Mike Wagner.. I never knew they were nobodies.

Blount is a hall of famer, and Donnie Shell was just as good. Good CB's, and Safeties

Defense was about even, the Steelers offense was a sad pathetic joke compared to the offense of the 07 Patriots, not even worth comparing the two. Rushing edge goes to Steelers, but Brady is WAAAAAY better then Bradshaw. Like, a LOT better.

Yep, Franco, bleieir, Swann, Stallworth, and Bradshaw are jokes. For sakes, they are all HOF's except for Rocky plus their offensive line was magnificent.

Patriots O-line was better this year, our recieving corps this year puts the Steelers to absolute shame, and Bill Belichick is twice the coach that Chuck Noll could've ever hoped to be.

Ha Chuck Noll? He turned a disaster of a franchise into one of the greatest football franchises of all time. Come on man, you should no better than that, Chuck Nolls record including post season 209-156-1... Belicheck 142-84-0.

Noll has a 57% career winning percentage
Belicheck has a 62%.

To add, Noll did coach longer, but they have a basically an equal resume.

Edge goes to the Patriots, no doubt about it.

Awesome front seven, solid secondary, and a potent two headed offense. I would beg to differ

 

[X]

Alright explain Bradshaws 4 SB's in 6 years? Explain his success in the big game? Explain how the man was accurate, had a strong arm, and was patient when it came to the big games? So honestly i dont see where you are heading when you do this? Bradshaw played on a based running team with two stellar backs. Hello, Franco Harris anyone?

Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls in 6 years. Tom Brady won 3 in 4 years. 3 in 4 is a better ratio. Simple math really.

But the funniest thing of your post was the part next where you say "Terry Bradshaw was accurate"....no....no actually he wasn't accurate at all. Did you not read the stats? 212 TDs and 210 INTs is an absolutely dreadful ratio. Compared to Tom Brady's of 197-86. Much better. Once again Brian, this is simple math, and if you don't understand simple math, you should really stop talking right now before you embarass yourself further.

Bradshaw never lost a SB, Brady now has. How wouldn't you trust Bradshaw when he is a proven winner and was clutch?

True but Bradshaw has lost in big games before such as AFC Championship games. Brady was not at fault at all in that game, the fault of that game belongs to Bill Belichick as much as I hate to say it. If he hadn't gone for it on 4th and long in the 3rd quarter and instead just got the easy chipshot field goal, the Giant's winning drive would've turned into a tying drive and overtime would've happened. If anyone is to blame for that game, unfortunately its the coach usually.

I would trust Bradshaw in a big game, no doubt. But I'd trust Brady 20 times more then I would Bradshaw, so maybe you're not understanding me here. In my opinion, Tom Brady is easily one of the best QBs of all time. And you can't deny that. Brady has more rings then Elway, Favre, Marino, Staubach, should I continue? IMO, Brady is a better QB. There's more to being a good QB then winning Super Bowls, and any QB in the NFL would tell you that.

We're never going to agree on this matter Brian, so let's just stop here before we both flame each other out.

 

[BooCocky]

Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls in 6 years. Tom Brady won 3 in 4 years. 3 in 4 is a better ratio. Simple math really.

Hmm the Odd thing is 4 is greater than 3. Do the math, If Brady would have won SB Sunday it would have been 4 in 7 years. Which is worse than 4.6. Simple math

But the funniest thing of your post was the part next where you say "Terry Bradshaw was accurate"....no.

As Bradshaw got older, his ratio started to decline, when he first came into the league he was on an awful team. As Bradshaw got older his numbers started getting better.

...no actually he wasn't accurate at all. Did you not read the stats? 212 TDs and 210 INTs is an absolutely dreadful ratio. Compared to Tom Brady's of 197-86. Much better.

Some of Bradshaws best years were his super bowl years, proving that he was clutch and was one of the reasons why his team went onto win 4 SB's in 6 yrs. His playoff appearances those years were stellar and did enough, and you completely ignored his stats in the SB. Outside of basically 1974 Bradshaw stellar, nothing great, but he was deserving of his all pro and HOF status

Once again Brian, this is simple math, and if you don't understand simple math, you should really stop talking right now before you embarass yourself further.

How is that when you are disputing the numbers he produced those years in the playoffs? Don't ignore those numbers.

True but Bradshaw has lost in big games before such as AFC Championship games. Brady was not at fault at all in that game, the fault of that game belongs to Bill Belichick as much as I hate to say it. If he hadn't gone for it on 4th and long in the 3rd quarter and instead just got the easy chipshot field goal,

If i recall that was a 47 yd field goal, it wasn't a chip shot, Gostkowski's longest that entire years was 45 yds. There is a reason why Belicheck went for it.

the Giant's winning drive would've turned into a tying drive and overtime would've happened. If anyone is to blame for that game, unfortunately its the coach usually.

Yeah because of Brady's inability to throw the ball away.You can't wait all day for someone to get open.

In my opinion, Tom Brady is easily one of the best QBs of all time. And you can't deny that. Brady has more rings then Elway, Favre, Marino, Staubach, should I continue? IMO, Brady is a better QB. There's more to being a good QB then winning Super Bowls, and any QB in the NFL would tell you that.

Careers are made in the playoffs, and Super Bowls, ask Joe Montana, he will tell you. Bradshaw is one of two QB's with 4 SB rings, and no one can take that away from him. Teams usually live on the success of their QB, and when it was time to play Bradshaw showed up. Bradshaw was playing on some pathetic Steeler teams. The Steelers didnt have a team until basically 1972, and we all knew what happened that year. Bradshaw, had a powerful arm, not that it means anything but ESPN had a column on Arm, Strength, Accuracy, and Bradshaw won the one that dealt with Arm Strength. I believe Brady won most poised.

We're never going to agree on this matter Brian, so let's just stop here before we both flame each other out.

Fair enough.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Keep all discussion about the 2008 NFL Draft in here. Feel free to include your mock top-5, top-10, or first round. Please remember - spamming is not permitted in here, so if you list a mock draft make sure you explain why you think each guy will goto what team you have listed. On draft day, a thread will be up in Live Discussion to talk about the Draft itself.

 

[Frank the Frowner]

I have a question, would anyone be up for doing a two round forum mock draft? Basically, people sign up as a team, and draft as if they're making the decisions. I've done it before on another forum I visit, and it's fun. The time limit between picks would be twelve hours, and then when you make a pick, just give a short explanation as to why you're choosing the player.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- The Carolina Panthers have released disappointing quarterback David Carr and have come to terms with receiver Muhsin Muhammad.

Carr was let go a year after he signed a two-year, $6 million deal with the Panthers following a five-year stint as a starter in Houston. Carr struggled so badly when he took over for the injured Jake Delhomme last season that he was eventually demoted to third-string.

Carr leaves Carolina as Muhammad prepares for his second stint with the franchise.

Muhammad was expected to sign his contract later Wednesday, a week after he was released by the Chicago Bears.

Muhammad spent nine seasons with Carolina before being released in a salary-cap move after the 2004 season.

Woo Hoo!!! This is a great day for Carolina. Not only are we bringing back a proven great WR, but we're cutting a worthless piece of crap QB, that couldn't hack it even when he had a line that COULD protect him.

I hope this won't be the only move we make in the off-season, however. Last year David Carr was the only big decision we made. I'd really like to pick up possibly Brandon Lloyd, and definately a MLB to replace Dan Morgan. Although, I think our LBing core will be Diggs, Beason and Thomas. We'd be screwed if any of them got hurt though.

We also need to sign another decent RB, to back-up Williams. Even though, today is a great day for Carolina! Muhammad is coming home!!!!

 

[Slim Pickns]

I've always liked Muhammed, he's got great hands and is a solid leader. I got excited when he left Carolina because the Vikings were pursuing him. Unfortunately he went to Chicago, where recievers go to die.

The Vikings fans here are going nuts over signing Bernard Berrian. I honestly don't see the big deal. He a solid reciever but we gave him way to much money. Between him and Bobby Wade, we are overpaying recievers more than any other team.

The Troy Williamson gamble didn't pay off. In a year where linebacker was our number one need, we passed on Shawn Merriman and Derrick Johnson to "replace" Moss with Williamson. For those of you that haven't seen many Vikes games, they guy constanly burned the secondary, got open by as much as seven yards, and then would drop the wide open pass. Thats what happens when your coaches put too much stock in the 40 time.

 

[BooCocky]

Thats what happens when your coaches put too much stock in the 40 time.

this got me thinking. I was reading a mock draft and they mentioned Otah's 40 speed. It was 5.55, and the guy said that is going to hurt him, I guess teams want him to return kickoffs.

The 40 is good for people like Calvin Johnson. He got good hands, and is very quick for his size. So its like determining do you want the guy who got the good hands and the 4.3 speed, or do you want the guy who got good hands and has 4.5 speed.

I don't understand a lot of those drills though, some are stupid.

Now onto Williamson, I don't even remember him in College, and i love my college football.

I thought he was going to be a bust, he was very quick but his hands are so-so. People in Minny are probably kicking themselves for passing up on I inject myself with Steroids Shawne Merriman.

O well, ya'll have Adrian Petersen, and the Williams' thats a start. Plus your line is solid, ya'll just need a new QB because Jackson just isn't cutting it.

 

[Slim Pickns]

this got me thinking. I was reading a mock draft and they mentioned Otah's 40 speed. It was 5.55, and the guy said that is going to hurt him, I guess teams want him to return kickoffs.

The 40 is good for people like Calvin Johnson. He got good hands, and is very quick for his size. So its like determining do you want the guy who got the good hands and the 4.3 speed, or do you want the guy who got good hands and has 4.5 speed.

I don't understand a lot of those drills though, some are stupid.

The 40 is overrated. Anquan Boldin dropped to the second round because he ran a 4.5. Arizona ended up with a steal all because teams couldn't overlook the fact that his 40 time sucked.

Overall there is too much stock in some of the drills. Peyton Manning has probably the best mechanics of any QB, can you imagine if the Colts passed on him because a different QB could bench press more.

Now onto Williamson, I don't even remember him in College, and i love my college football.

I thought he was going to be a bust, he was very quick but his hands are so-so. People in Minny are probably kicking themselves for passing up on I inject myself with Steroids Shawne Merriman.

O well, ya'll have Adrian Petersen, and the Williams' thats a start. Plus your line is solid, ya'll just need a new QB because Jackson just isn't cutting it.

Williamson was a nobody coming out of college. He played two years at South Carolina. One of the guys that works at the clothing store across the street from my gym went to South Carolina and said he has no idea why the Vikes drafted him.

Peterson is the savior of the team. He almost made that offense playoff worthy. The reason he couldn't, is because Jackson is awful. I was at the Redskins game where we could have clinched the playoffs, and he killed the crowd and the momentum multiple times. He's the definate achilles heel, and I can't see the Vikes being a contender with him at QB. He's got some great physical tools, but his decision making make him more of a threat to us then our opponents.

 

[RBH]

Vikings fans muist be going EVEN MORE NUTS NOW...Brett Farve has retired and that means that the division is WIDE OPEN....for the taking...Aaron Rodgers still has not proved anything yet and I believe Minnesota has the best chance at knocking off Green bay in the division race.

 

[Slim Pickns]

Vikings fans muist be going EVEN MORE NUTS NOW...Brett Farve has retired and that means that the division is WIDE OPEN....for the taking...Aaron Rodgers still has not proved anything yet and I believe Minnesota has the best chance at knocking off Green bay in the division race.

I would be excited, but Tarvaris is too damn shakey to say anything for sure. Honestly, teams have a better chance of scoring on us when our offense is on the field. I'm a huge Vikes fan, but I can't see us contending until Childress admits he made a mistake with Jackson.