WWE General Complaints Thread

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Maybe people are complaining about Ziggler's position because each year they've grown sick of how WWE treat their superstars year after year. And quite honestly, I can't blame them. No one's saying he's a God among the roster, but that doesn't mean he has to be treated badly either.

Yes you're right... Paying him lots of money, putting him in main events and giving him the WHC is an awful way to treat any talent... HOW DARE THEY DO THAT?!!!

I mean, that is what the IWC want, isn't it? You all would have preferred the Rock v Dolph Ziggler the last two years, rather than the Rock v John Cena.

I saw some idiot here last year say that Dolph Ziggler should be main-eventing Wrestlemania. This despite the fact that one of the biggest names of the past, the Rock, versus the current biggest name in WWE, John Cena, had planned a match at Wrestlemania one year in advance.

I don't get all the love on this site for Dolph Ziggler. He is a good ring-worker, but he is no Shawn Michaels. Yet he is hyped like HBK.

Ziggler to me looks to me like a more talented version of Billy Gunn. He is the typical pretty boy that the fans would normally boo, but you people cheer him like he is a god amongst men. Why? I don't get it. Explain it to me.

I have never seen such sycophantic love for a wrestler on this site since "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. The difference is, (and this is coming from someone who isn't a fan of SCSA), that Austin deserved his push, and didn't look out of place wearing a WWE Title. He could carry a storyline, and change a company. Ziggler can't.

Don't forget, this was a guy who was a male cheerleader in the most ineffective faction in WWE history (The Shield would kill Spirit Squad, everyone else did). This was a guy whose first few months were spent introducing himself and wanting people to shake his hand. Not exactly an Undertaker-like debut that captures the imagination.

You people bagged and hated on talented workers like Shelton Benjamin and John Morrison, and said that they lacked stickwork. But both are as talented as Ziggler, and Ziggler is no maestro on the mike either, since he has always had someone speaking for him (e.g. Vickie Guerrero, AJ). When will Ziggler break out on his own, and cut promos like C.M. Punk? If you are going to bag Shelton or Morrison due to stickwork, how can you praise Ziggler for the same thing?

Dolph Ziggler is one of the most talented guys on the roster, but actual good inring workers are few and far between today anyway. Other than Punk and Bryan, there are few other great workers, so of course he comes out looking good. If Ziggler had been around when HBK, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, a fit and firing Rey Mysterio, Edge at his best etc, he would have had great matches with them, but he would have got lost in the shuffle behind them.

"Stone Cold" Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, Bret "Hitman" Hart, Bruno Sammartino, Ric Flair, the Rock, the Undertaker, Mankind, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Dolph Ziggler, (who is the odd man out, who doesn't fit amongst those names)? The way some of you talk about him, you act like Ziggler would fit into that list pretty snuggly.

So, explain it to me, why do you rally around Ziggler, and laud him while bagging the Miz or Sheamus? What intrinsic quality does Ziggler have that makes you all act like screaming girls at a One Direction concert (Ziggler wouldn't look out of place in One Direction actually)? He may be good, but it will take a lot to convince me that he is worthy to be considered as great as you all make him out to be.

Next someone will suggest that he should end the Undertaker's winning streak!

Man, I love mocking all the Ziggler marks because some of the dumbest shit comes out of their mouths (look at my previous post in this thread ), but this is no better. First you write a thread title asking when he's going to headline WM, then you don't even elude to it anywhere in your post. All this is is a rant bitching about Ziggler marks. At least make it funny or something. And I disagree about him fitting in a boy band. I think he looks kind of funny.

If you want to know why people in the IWC like Ziggler so much, it's because they think he's amazing in the ring. You said it yourself. I wouldn't call him amazing in the slightest, but he's entertaining. He does tend to oversell a bit and does some stupid spots (that might one day hurt him badly) but I actually think he's toned that stuff down a bit. He's also very athletic so he's got a lot of intensity in the ring throughout the majority of matches.

His biggest weakness is his mic skills. They're not awful, but they're below average. He can't use any real intensity in his promos because when he raises his voice he sounds like he's still going through puberty. It really limits him. Plus he often comes off as scripted and trying too hard to get heat, which he doesn't get a whole lot of because the best way to get heat as a heel is with good mic skills.

As for if he'll ever headline WM, right now I don't see it. He doesn't have the mic skills to have the kind of buildup you need for WM. Most people around here bitched about the buildup to this WM, but it was still better than anything he can currently do on a microphone. If he improves his mic ability though, I could possibly see it someday.

 

[Papa Pillman]

Let's see if we can address the misconceptions going on here...

I mean, that is what the IWC want, isn't it? You all would have preferred the Rock v Dolph Ziggler the last two years, rather than the Rock v John Cena.

Oh, really? Show me more than maybe one random troll saying that and maybe I'll believe that people were clamoring for it.

I saw some idiot here last year say that Dolph Ziggler should be main-eventing Wrestlemania. This despite the fact that one of the biggest names of the past, the Rock, versus the current biggest name in WWE, John Cena, had planned a match at Wrestlemania one year in advance.

So one random "idiot" speaks for everyone?

I don't get all the love on this site for Dolph Ziggler.

You don't get it because it's not there. There are far more on this site that hate Ziggles than vice versa, and even more who are simply indifferent.

He is a good ring-worker

Actually he's really not that good. He's just an athlete who throws his body around.

but he is no Shawn Michaels. Yet he is hyped like HBK.

You're right he is not. and... You're wrong, he is not.

Ziggler to me looks to me like a more talented version of Billy Gunn.

Actually he debatably isn't more talented than Billy Gunn

I have never seen such sycophantic love for a wrestler on this site since "Stone Cold" Steve Austin.

From who??
Seriously? Show me quotes. Point out where these Dolph lovers are. Link all these posts that praise Dolph and show him more love than "anyone since Austin". An occasional delusional post from a newbie with a double-digit post count does not equal the board being filled with obsessive Dolph lovers, you're being delusional.

Not exactly an Undertaker-like debut that captures the imagination.

There's a revelation. Taker's gimmick is superior to Dolph's. Astute observation by you.

You people bagged and hated on talented workers like Shelton Benjamin and John Morrison, and said that they lacked stickwork.

Yes, they were spot workers, who couldn't work a complete match or work a mic.

But both are as talented as Ziggler

Okay, good for all three of them. Morrison and Benjamin had their own random fans too, hell a few people still want them back for some reason. What's your point. All have fans, probably a comparable number of them.

he has always had someone speaking for him (e.g. Vickie Guerrero, AJ). When will Ziggler break out on his own, and cut promos like C.M. Punk?

AJ has been doing Dolph's speaking? Do you even watch the product? AJ barely talks anymore, and Dolph never shuts up. He is cutting his own promos, but they will never be "like Punk".

Dolph Ziggler is one of the most talented guys on the roster,

You think? That is news to me and most others on the board. Who's the Dolph lover again?

If Ziggler had been around when HBK, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, a fit and firing Rey Mysterio, Edge at his best etc, he would have had great matches with them

Because they would have carried a story while he flopped like a fish.

but he would have got lost in the shuffle behind them.

And rightfully so.

"Stone Cold" Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, Bret "Hitman" Hart, Bruno Sammartino, Ric Flair, the Rock, the Undertaker, Mankind, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Dolph Ziggler, (who is the odd man out, who doesn't fit amongst those names)? The way some of you talk about him, you act like Ziggler would fit into that list pretty snuggly.

Who is this "some of you" again? Give me an example of posters on the board putting Dolph in the class with those previous names.

So, explain it to me, why do you rally around Ziggler, and laud him while bagging the Miz or Sheamus? What intrinsic quality does Ziggler have that makes you all act like screaming girls at a One Direction concert (Ziggler wouldn't look out of place in One Direction actually)? He may be good, but it will take a lot to convince me that he is worthy to be considered as great as you all make him out to be.

Why are you so obsessed with him? You make a post criticizing made up fanboys on the board, while at the same time you keep complimenting him more than he deserves.

Next someone will suggest that he should end the Undertaker's winning streak!

No one is asking for that, but it seems to be on your radar as a possibility.

 

[ChicagoMade Punk]

I'm actually not a Ziggler supporter at all. I don't like the man. However I dont like the champions gaining a curse and the WWE thinking their champions can lose all the time just because they are champions. Ziggler got his championship the most controversial way you can in the WWE, and that means they need to legitimize his championship run. WWE has been doing this for a while now, they make their champions lose. STOP DOING THIS! I am not a ziggler mark, ill admit I am a punk mark but thats not what you all are going on about. NO I DO NOT LIKE ZIGGLER! The championship doesn't mean much anymore and that needs to change.

 

[STILLNWO4LIFE]

I'm not saying that the WWE doesn't change it up at all, but the more and more I watch the same ole recycled bs, I'm starting to get ready just to put it down and leave it with my son. He's mostly the reason I watch, and this is the heaviest I have watched since I was really into it during my kiddie days and teen years.

I understand that WCW went out of business because of all the inside bs and the recycled, last forever NWO skit. I understand that WWE used to actually be exciting. Will someone please tell me when are we going to get that great of fresh air, and quite possibly quit aiming at just the kids. After all, this is the first year I remember wanting to puke at the conclusion of Wrestlemania. My son was so happy, but he's not the one that flushed 70 dollars down the shitter.

WWE needs something new and something crazy. The only thing I actually love about the product is The Shield. They have a nwo feel to them but a lot more powerful and they always get the job done.

Anyways, y'all's thoughts? Do we need more groups? Do we need fresh faces that don't have to build up to making an impact? Do we need more attitude era guys to, well bring the attitude back? Just wanna know what y'all's thoughts are and how y'all feel.

 

[STILLNWO4LIFE]

Simple question, when will the extreme rules ppv actually live up to its definition? The WWE is embarrassing and pissing on the name of this ppv. Where's the barbed wire, kendo sticks, flaming tables, shit, where's the VIOLENCE? Live up to it or change the damn name.

 

[James]

So far we have a cage match and a ladder match.

I expect the Cena V. Ryback match to have some kind of gimmick especially if they book him to lose.

I'm sure we'll get Shield V. Team Hell No with the stipulations being something like a tables match(it would make sense).

Mark Henry and Sheamus definitely needs to be a no holds barred match.

Divas match will just be a divas match.

IDK what they're gonna do with Barrett and Kofi though.

Cena V. Ryback
Ziggler V. Swagger V. Rio
Hunter V. Lesnar
Shield V. Team Hell No
Sheamus V. Henry
Orton V. Big Show
Kaitlyn V. AJ

Could be a pretty solid card in my opinion.

 

[Trill Co$by]

Simple question, when will the extreme rules ppv actually live up to its definition? The WWE is embarrassing and pissing on the name of this ppv. Where's the barbed wire, kendo sticks, flaming tables, shit, where's the VIOLENCE? Live up to it or change the damn name.

Oh look, another whining little bitch.

Seriously dude, calm your nerves. WWE is still PG, and having anything barbed wire or any kind of flaming tables would get them in some serious shit. That might sound fine and dandy to you, but WWE needs its sponsors and investors, a lot of which are the reason why they're still in business. Not to mention Extreme doesn't mean anything in terms of weapons or even obscene violence. All that extreme means is to push something to the very limit.

You don't go around yelling for violence, kendo sticks, flaming tables, or barbed wire at an X-Games event do you? So why do the same to WWE? Plus WWE's already got a Steel Cage and Ladder match scheduled for the event. Just give it time and I'm sure more stipulations will be added that will make it far more than worthy of being extreme.

 

[mouce]

"My son was so happy"

And this is why they wont change it

ppf you have really watched and followed the show you know they are aiming at the kids for the last few years

 

[HereComesThePain53]

Quit whining moron. WWE doesn't do what Mr. STILLNWO4LIFE wants it to do. You have no say whatsoever. You want to be in control of a WWE show for one day? You'd be knocked out of business in a snap. You don't know what goes on behind the scenes and the reasons behind the WWE's actions and decisions so shut the f*** up before you start crying. People on here think they're so damn smart...

 

[HereComesThePain53]

You sound like an internet tough guy. Anyway, The Shield? Really? To me, those three buffoons are just immature children hopping around trying to get attention. The Shield is a joke. WWE tries hard to make them seem like an Attitude Era stable...it just isn't. The Shield is not even close (can't stress this enough) to stables that instantly come to people's minds, stables that took years and years to build and stables that earned the right to be called legendary such as NWO, Brothers of Destruction, Ministry of Darkness, The Corporation, etc. The Shield....I mean first off, the name. The Shield? Pathetic. Ambrose, Rollins, and Reigns are just three little ponies looking for attention. Idk why WWE is high on them and even made them succumb to Taker. Pathetic.


Now the attitude era back? That will never happen considering all the attitude era stars are now part-timers. It's depressing.

How many fresh faces do you need? Every fresh ass face that is there in the WWE sucks. Ziggler for example...guy flops around like a dead fish and you all get high on him just cause he's a heel. Cesaro...boring as hell and I hate his face. WWE just sucks now lol unless they activate guys like Joe Henning and Tyson Kidd and such.


WWE did try something crazy in 2010. Remember the Nexus? Man, I miss Nexus. Nexus > Shield by a longshot. F*** the shield. I say WWE should bring back Nexus. That would shine the light on currently dull stars like Barrett Slater Darren Young Justin Gabriel and hell even Ryback (SKip sheffield). Bring back Nexus. I loved it.

WWE won't do anything crazy or bring back the attitude era until Linda McMahon dies and HHH gets in the driver's seat.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

WWE won't do anything crazy or bring back the attitude era until Linda McMahon dies and HHH gets in the driver's seat.

I know that some people like to believe the Attitude Era was all quality but that's absolute bullshit. For every great Austin & Rock promo or feud, you had stuff like Mae Young giving birth to a hand or Val Venis getting his penis chopped off by a gang of Japanese mobster wannabes with a katana. How about Triple H having "sex" with a corpse by the name of Katie Vick? What about Big Boss Man crashing the "funeral" of Big Show's father, chaining the coffin to the back of his truck & pulling it out of the graveyard? What about Stone Cold Steve Austin attacking Vince McMahon while Vince was "hospitalized" and "sodomizing" him with some sort of medical device?

The Attitude Era is dead and gone. It's highly unlikely that it will be coming back because society has changed quite a bit since 1998. In 2013, WWE has done a few things that have generated more legit controversy than most anything else in wrestling in many years. You know why it was controversial? Because it genuinely pissed people off and/or made them uncomfortable. That's what real controversy does, not the tired cliché of wrestlers swearing every other word in promos or female wrestlers behaving like and/or being portrayed as nearly naked nymphos in search of a porn flick.

When Paul Heyman & CM Punk "mocked" Jerry Lawler's heart attack, after he'd returned to Raw after having recovered, people were outraged. The way some were reacting, including many on this forum who have claimed to have wanted to see "edgier" content for years, as if Punk had personally insulted a deceased family member who'd died of a heart attack. Lawler himself gave the WWE his blessing to do the angle many weeks before. He fully endorsed & supported it.

When Jack Swagger & Zeb Coulter's current characters made their debut and stance that they were anti-immigration, people came from all over to criticize & blast WWE because of it. Everyone from wrestling insiders to well known public & political figures raised a huge stink over it. Despite accusations made that there were racial overtones, there wasn't anything racist about the angle. Pointing out the fact that illegal immigration has long since been a major political question & concern isn't racism. Pointing out that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are from Mexico isn't racism, it's merely stating a fact. Some have claimed WWE did it to poke fun at the Tea Party, though what WWE is done is downright G rated compared to some of the speeches & rhetoric I've heard some Tea Party supporters say. Everyone knows that pro wrestling is scripted and features wrestlers portraying fictional personalities & characters. People are fine with these sorts of characters on television dramas. If a character on a show like Boardwalk Empire or Sons of Anarchy expresses a controversial opinion, people call it good drama, but that doesn't apply if the character is on a pro wrestling show I guess.

Also, more recently, was when CM Punk scattered the "ashes" of Paul Bearer all over The Undertaker's beaten & prone body. Again, something that was done for dramatic effect because, of course, these weren't William Moody's actual remains. But, again, a lot of people raise a stink about it claiming that it was an insult to Moody's memory while ignoring the fact that Moody himself never stopped being a lifelong fan of wrestling and was involved in quite a few controversial angles himself back during the Attitude Era. Plus, Moody's two grown sons gave WWE their blessing to go ahead and do the angle.

So no, the Attitude Era will probably not be making a return. A lot of what made it work & controversial back in the late 90s are no longer fashionable. The late 90s was the era of crash TV and Jerry Springer, neither of which is anywhere near as popular now as it was then.

 

[info62]

Simple question, when will the extreme rules ppv actually live up to its definition? The WWE is embarrassing and pissing on the name of this ppv. Where's the barbed wire, kendo sticks, flaming tables, shit, where's the VIOLENCE? Live up to it or change the damn name.

I can see why you would think there would be more extreme moments at a PPV called Extreme Rules and I think it's pretty pathetic that you are getting blasted on here for saying so.

However, I am not as worked up about the name. Extreme Rules was the PPV that replaced One Night Stand in 2009 I think. One Night Stand was the name that needed to get changed, since this PPV was no longer anything like the ECW revival PPV in 2005, and to a slightly lesser extent 2006, of the same name.

Since One Night Stand was changed to Extreme Rules in 2009, and keeping in mind that WWE was already PG by this point, I don't see how they can be disrespecting the name Extreme Rules by putting out a PG PPV. Yeah it might be contradictory to the title but I wouldn't go as far as to say it's pissing on the name of the PPV.

 

[Dysturbed]

Simple question, when will the extreme rules ppv actually live up to its definition? The WWE is embarrassing and pissing on the name of this ppv. Where's the barbed wire, kendo sticks, flaming tables, shit, where's the VIOLENCE? Live up to it or change the damn name.

Exaggeration and embellishment is widespread in most aspects of wrestling. Every time we watch we see the impact of moves being exaggerated, the commentary involving exaggerations, the hype for upcoming matches and ppvs being exaggerated about how relevant and great certain things will be, wrestlers exaggerating what they will do or already did to their opponents, and so on. The term wrestling itself is presented in the context of “sports entertainment” and not full fledged “wrestling”. You know that as much as any of us, so it shouldn't be too hard to understand why the word “extreme” isn’t literal. That doesn't mean that you have to like it, especially when the word in association with “wrestling” used to have a specific purpose, but does mean that it does make sense for it to have the name, even if it the ppv doesn't live up to your expectations of that name.

 

[CripplerBenoitFan]

I question the intelligence of someone who really wishes that wrestlers cause harm to themselves with flaming table spots, kendo sticks, thumbtacks, or chairshots to the face. Especially in a global entertainment organization such as the WWE, with such a wide audience. This isn't the same as some bum bumping on thumbtacks for a bunch of inbred CZW fans.

There's no art in that.

 

[ChicagoMade Punk]

So last night Cena handed the Shield their first loss. Someone, anyone PLEASE tell me how this is good for business, because I for one dont see how one man beat all threemembers of the Shield. That was the worst thing I've seen on WWE T.V. in my years of watching.

 

[Sweettre15]

Since this is the general complaints thread this is what I feel is wrong with the WWE:

Btw, here's a list of complaints I'd lodge to WWE Headquarters:

1. The Midcard and Lower card are treated like they don't exist due to everyone on the Midcard being jobbed out to Main eventers at some point or another. I mean they have 3 hours of Raw yet they have wrestlers getting "Lost In The Shuffle" when their was a time when every division had storylines with 2 hours.

2. Too Many PPVs, which makes it harder to absorb storylines due to them seemingly getting more fleshed out AFTER the first PPV match.

3. Limited Emphasis on Tag Team Division

4. The Women's division is treated like a joke with 5 min matches, little to no actually storylines, and the Women WRESTLERS like Natalya being given crappy gimmicks and being jobbed out.

5. Every champion besides the WWE champion has to be jobbed out weekly on TV in a non title matches. Is there really not another way to give wrestlers title shots without them beating the champion or are such things made exclusive for WWE Champions and no other belt?

6. Faces being forced to fit the "Superhero" mold. I mean they already have John Cena for that, why make Sheamus into that as well?

7. The need for random throw away skits that progress nothing and short throwaway squash matches that progress nothing.

8. Extra Lazy booking during Mania season due to feeling comfortable relying on fans wanting to see popular Part-timers.

9) Too many start and stop pushes with their younger talent

Simply put, it seems like for every good thing that WWE has going for it, they either

A) Overshadow it with the flaws of the product

OR

B. Use their illogical and irrational booking to take things with potential and make them stupid.

 

[Sweettre15]

Also as an FYI, the part about sending this to WWE Headquarters is completely hypothetical because I know they wouldn't give a damn...However I wish they sent out surveys to their viewers and evaluate their answers to a set of questions they are willing to ask about the product's flaws

 

[DXL81]

WWE really needs to add and push a middle weight division. Not having one is killing thir shows. Also, the really need to turn Orton heel already. Smh...

 

[TempestH]

The neglect of the midcard is totally ridiculous. There are lots of guys taking time off for injuries or whatever, but instead of pushing the midcard faces, they just stretch out the main eventers' TV time.

Daniel Bryan worked TWO matches last night just because WWE didn't want to actually use that time to build anyone outside of the main event scene.

Absolutely no one should be pulling double duty when you've got a bunch of guys being underutilized.

 

[STFU Donnie]

It seems every story or news item regarding WWE's creative team, is met with derision and attack in comment sections and forums across the IWC. In light of this, I propose a new rule: If you're going to offer opinions on the structure and merit of WWE creative, then you have to start reading and listening to all the interviews, blogs, columns, and podcasts featuring former creative members, guys who've been in the arenas, sat at the tables, and wrote the very stuff we see performed on TV.

Court Bauer was recently interviewed on The Kings of Sport podcast (the one that every website took completely out of context claiming he called WWE racist and homophobic...that's not even remotely what he said) and in it he provided an outline about how creative has been staffed since Vince Russo left in 1999, confirming the same story every other former creative member who has spoken publicly have already said.

Early on, Stephanie was focused on signing Hollywood script writers...and when that failed miserably, she started staffing creative with a wide array of people; former wrestlers, TV writers, comics, fans, etc. WWE still preferred those with TV writing experience, but they wanted those TV writers to also be fans of the product and on occasion they also just hired straight wrestling fans and they've had Michael Hayes, Paul Heyman, Dusty Rhodes, Ted DiBiase, Tully Blanchard, Ricky Steamboat, Road Dogg, and God knows how many other people with wrestling backgrounds on the team as well.

All the derision directed at the soap opera/TV/Hollywood writers hired by WWE that the IWC hates so much is missing a key element, which is these writers are wrestling fans, which means they are not one iota different than every "wrestling fan" in the IWC who also has a job in the real world. It just so happens these fans had jobs writing dialogue and scripts, understanding structure, deadlines, formats, time constraints, and all the other stuff that goes on in the entertainment business...in other words, experience and a resume of writing.

As a wrestling fan with ZERO writing experience, if WWE made me head of creative tomorrow, the headline would read "WWE Hires Investment Adviser To Head Creative" and the IWC would be up in arms because they hired a mutual fund guy to run creative...ignoring completely that I'm one of you!!!

But the single biggest point the IWC either completely misses or chooses to ignore is that anybody who is hired for creative in WWE, no matter their background, writes to an audience of one and that is Vince McMahon. He is the editor/booker and has final say on who does what, when, and where. The one consistent factor in the WWE creative committee era is Vince McMahon.

And the same rule that Chris Jericho and Mick Foley wrote about in their respective books, which is that wrestlers have to impress Vince and make him their fan in order to succeed, holds doubly true for writers. If you're on creative and you don't quickly come to understand Vince's taste and the kind of stories and characters he wants, then he won't use your stuff, and before long you'll be out the door.

Vince McMahon is the problem, not the guys he hires to write what he wants.

 

[anvilx8]

I don't hate WWE creative. Do they suck sometimes? ...Sure. I just remember how bad WCW creative was, and then I'm thankful for WWE creative again.

 

[Miz_America]

You know, I never really thought about it like this before, and you're 100% right. Vince is the ONE person the writers are writing for, and Im sure he turns down some great ideas for one reason or another. I mean, it's not that difficult to see that Vince being in creative control has hurt WWE in the long run. Punk really did say it best, Vince is a millionaire, but he should be a billionaire. But he surrounded himself with all the wrong people. Hopefully when (gulp) Triple H and Stephanie are running things, better storylines will start to develop. Maybe they'll get back to the basics of pro wrestling and not try so hard at "sports entertainment." Here's hoping.

 

[sTyLnK]

At the same time though, Vince's taste isn't exactly golden. Sure, you could impress him and he could use your stuff, but that doesn't mean it's good. For all we know, the guy who doesn't impress Vince, his stuff is probably a million times better. Until Vince steps down and someone else takes over, the quality is going to suffer.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

I don't hate WWE creative. Do they suck sometimes? ...Sure. I just remember how bad WCW creative was, and then I'm thankful for WWE creative again.

One thing I'll give WCW creative credit for is that at least they NEVER glorified the act of necrophilia. WCW's voluminous number of creative blunders is trumped any day by that rancid concept that WWE executed in late 2002 when Kane and Triple H had their feud. Heading into that year's edition of No Mercy, there were other ways to generate heat. That way wasn't one of them.

I'll talk a million David Arquette title wins and/or the fingerpoke of doom over Katie Vick ANY day of the week. And while some of WWE's other creative blunders these days are far more innocent, I still shudder to think about them.

In the last few years, in my sporadic viewing of the product, I've noticed the following from WWE that has just disappointed me as a one-time hardcore fan:

- Vince McMahon's limo explosion, the fact that this bullshit angle, along with Vince's faux death received more precedence than Sherri Martel's real life death should tell you all you need to know these days about the promotion.

- The Great Khali Kiss Cam

- Natayla Neidhart's chronic flatulence, and while I am not the biggest fan of women's wrestling, I give Nattie her props. On top of it all, it's indeed hard to BE a fan of a women's wrestling division when you have one of their few talents on the roster be subjected to a ridiculous character like this one.

- The glaring concept of segments that are glorified commercial advertisements. I've seen situations where backstage a wrestler is hawking a forthcoming DVD release during a promo or ranting and raving about the newest line of WWE action figures. It's sad, for as much respect and admiration I have for Triple H's in-ring toughness and grit, nothing makes me gag more these days than seeing stupid shit like him and Hornswoggle playing with action figures backstage. Hearing Triple H exposit about how they are "now available in your favorite toy stores". Then of course we had Jerry Lawler get a Sonic soft drink roller skated out to him during commentary. I mean, seriously now? Look, I'm all for a company having to do what they can to make money and have relationships with advertisers, but seriously that's what commercials were created for. I will say this much, I KNOW that back in the day then then-WWF did some of the same stuff with product placement via having action figures on display on shows such as Tuesday Night Titans and Prime Time Wrestling, but at least I give them more credit for using subtlety back then. These days, you see none of that.

- The fact that so many titles are afterthoughts. This year's WrestleMania featured an IC Title match that was on the pre-show, basically it was barely a step above a dark match. Then of course, the United States title was completely eschewed from the card. Over the years, both of these titles have gotten ignored off and on at WrestleMania during the last decade or so, and I find that ridiculous. It leads me to wonder what exactly the point is of keeping these titles around anymore. These titles were great plot devices that usually tested the waters for a wrestler's ascent to the main event. These days, they remain nothing more than an afterthought as I stated at the top of this paragraph.

As a fan who watched the WWF not too long after they dropped the extra W and who stood by throughout the good times and the bad, I've still managed to enjoy it. I even stuck around for a bit when they "got the F out" and became WWE, I tolerated a LOT of silliness. Just because I felt the promotion still had their heart in the right place. While some people will probably take my statements to mean that I hate WWE blindly, I would argue to say that my reasons are justifiable.

Again, I dare not say that WCW's creative shittyness was always welcomed either. I could definitely have done without the Cruiserweight title being feuded over in BBQ sauce matches, Robocop saving Sting was zany, and Vader's "White Castle Of Fear" mini movie was cringeworthy. However, as I stated earlier, WWE has managed to outdo themselves in the way of bad taste time and again, that their blunders at least to myself stick out much, much more. And I say this as a fervent fan who actually PREFERRED the then-WWF over any other wrestling product for years. It's sad to say that I definitely have taken a complete 180 on what the organization used to mean to me.

With the wealth of veteran talent that work for the company these days, I wonder why all the things I've lamented on occur. Who knows, maybe it's me as a fan that's changed, but I sincerely doubt that part.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

It's easy to hate creative; they are pretty much the only guys who can't defend themselves. We have little to no insight into their process for writing, so the whole thing seems arbitrary.

Obviously it's not that simple. You've got executive management who can override these guys at any time. You've got wrestlers who have to act out the role, who contribute their own ideas (sometimes with a degree of creative control to nix an idea too), and are also responsible for getting themselves over. There's also the burden of past angles and traditions in the business. It seems to me that wrestling is incredibly insular, and very opposed to trying new things creatively.

Creative may be the most hamstrung guys in the business when it comes to making an impact, yet they take a lot of the blame.