Should Dolph Ziggler Become A Main Eventer?

[The Future Rises]

Here we go again..

For those who claim Dolph has mic skills, a good look and charisma (or is at least passable in all three), how would you rate him against other guys looking for a permanent main event slot?

Well considering most of them are not even half the wrestler he is in the ring and no better than him when it comes to mic skills/charisma I'd rate him very good.

Dolph's look is just an skinny, but well built dude of average height. He doesn't have any noticeable tattoos (I don't think he has any).

Apparently having tattoos gives someone a better look.. No seriously can you imagine Ziggler with tattoos? Wouldn't fit him at all.

His tights are generic. And just because he is the only male on the roster with bleach blond hair doesn't mean he has a 'good' look.

Yep his "DZ" logo is very generic and a lot of other wrestlers have used it in the past..

Who said anything about his bleach blonde hair? I'll admit it's one of the reasons as it makes him stand out along with his tan. But Ziggler is also in very good shape. He's not so "skinny" he actually has abs.

Dolph doesn't have any charisma if they need Vickie to get him a reaction.. And even that has been dwindling. And like others have said, "he is good in the ring, but that is about it." If that is all you think of the guy..

Ever since he's been paired with Vickie I've been hearing that a lot. "They need Vickie to get him a reaction". Haven't you thought about it more a little and got the idea that this whole Vickie thing's goal is to ultimately turn Ziggler into a beloved fan favorite by dumping her bad and humiliating her? This whole thing might have started with Vickie being his heat magnet. But you never know what direction the WWE are going with it.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

Well considering most of them are not even half the wrestler he is in the ring and no better than him when it comes to mic skills/charisma I'd rate him very good.

Who gives a shit how 'good' someone is in the ring if no one actually gives a shit about the guy?

Apparently having tattoos gives someone a better look.. No seriously can you imagine Ziggler with tattoos? Wouldn't fit him at all.

Just an example. What exactly about Dolph's look makes it 'good'? Aren't all wrestlers suppose to be good looking and healthy? If it is a good look, he doesn't carry it well because there are other guys with an equally as generic look and they make it work.

Yep his "DZ" logo is very generic and a lot of other wrestlers have used it in the past..

His name on his tights? Is that really the best he got?

Who said anything about his bleach blonde hair? I'll admit it's one of the reasons as it makes him stand out along with his tan. But Ziggler is also in very good shape. He's not so "skinny" he actually has abs.

Like I said..

What exactly about Dolph's look makes it 'good'? Aren't all wrestlers suppose to be good looking and healthy? If it is a good look, he doesn't carry it well because there are other guys with an equally as generic look and they make it work.

Ever since he's been paired with Vickie I've been hearing that a lot. "They need Vickie to get him a reaction". Haven't you thought about it more a little and got the idea that this whole Vickie thing's goal is to ultimately turn Ziggler into a beloved fan favorite by dumping her bad and humiliating her? This whole thing might have started with Vickie being his heat magnet. But you never know what direction the WWE are going with it.

It's been well over a fucking year. Even when the writers were a lil motivated, they never kept something together for over a fucking year just to build up something good.

 

[The Future Rises]

Who gives a shit how 'good' someone is in the ring if no one actually gives a shit about the guy?

When you say "no one" are you still living in 2009? I'm pretty much sure Dolph has been getting better and better reactions from the crowd lately. Like I said in terms of getting over.. He's getting there.

Just an example. What exactly about Dolph's look makes it 'good'? Aren't all wrestlers suppose to be good looking and healthy? If it is a good look, he doesn't carry it well because there are other guys with an equally as generic look and they make it work.

Ok first of all.. "all wrestlers are supposed to be good looking and healthy"? Tell that to someone like The Big Show, Brodus Clay, or Mark Henry. On to Ziggler.. Huge tan, bleach blonde hair.. Are you sure that's generic in today's WWE? I don't think so. He's trying to separate his look from the same old generic dark hair Alex Riley's and Randy Orton's which is a good thing.

His name on his tights? Is that really the best he got?

It's not really his name it's his signature logo a hardcore-designed "D" and "Z" as in Dolph Ziggler. I don't see what's so generic about it.

It's been well over a fucking year. Even when the writers were a lil motivated, they never kept something together for over a fucking year just to build up something good.

Like I said it might have started off like that but it didn't work out so the writers are probably going for a different direction right now. A face turn would definitely be good in my opinion. I think he can pull off being a face perfectly. Although like I said he's getting there in terms of getting over with the crowd.

 

[Dusty Roids]

imo dolph got what it takes! but isn't he the current US champion? well if he is let's keep it that way! finally someone with talent who can give that title credibility and some good midcard feuds. he is still young can main event when the time is right.

 

[LSN80]

Dolph Ziggler has had some fine matches over the past year. He had two matches in late December last year against John Cena that were very good, and looked good as well against World Champion Edge in late 2010/early 2011. He's also looked very good against current World Champion Randy Orton in their match on Raw two weeks ago. Can you see the pattern here.

All due credit to Ziggler, he looks good and holds his own when in the ring with main event men. But my question is this: How much of this is due to Ziggler, and how much is due to the established, tenured main eventers who have a history of making their opponents look good? I can't recall a match where Ziggler has made someone lower on the pecking order look better then they are. Contrast this with Christian, who returned to WWE when Ziggler was beginning to become relevant. I can think of at least 10 matches off the top of my head where Christian has carried a lesser opponent to a good to great match in that time, and I can't think of any matches where Ziggler did the same.

Ziggler's look isn't one Im a fan of either. He looks like a high-end real estate agent, especially when he had the dark hair. He still looks that way even with his hair dyed back to his "natural" blonde look. Second, his look seems more fit to be tailored to Vickie's then vice versa. This is evident when he's cutting a promo, or doing commentary. He plays second fiddle to Vickie during promos, and third fiddle when on commentary, firmly behind Vickie and Lawler's banter.

Let's take a look at his main event run on Smackdown. Yes. he was World Champion for about 20 minutes, and had some good matches with Edge. But his final match with Edge tells a large story: Edge beat him in three minutes. Further, who exactly were the other heels on Smackdown? Kane was just leaving the main event scene after his awful feud with Edge. Cody Rhodes was taking time off as he was in-between the "Dashing" gimmick and selling the "Disfigured" gimmick. Alberto Del Rio was still an upper mid-carder until he won the Royal Rumble. And what happened when he did? Ziggler was taken off TV, out of the main scene, and over to Raw all in the following 3 weeks. Ziggler was mostly a main eventer by default.

When Dolph Ziggler and Cody Rhodes won their respective mid-card championships, they both promised to bring credibility to and elevate their respective titles. Neither has defended their title since the former champion's rematch clause. The most both can claim is a non-title loss to Randy Orton, and being off TV some weeks altogether. Ziggler wasn't one of the eight men in the MITB match, with men firmly below him participating. But the most telling factors are this: Ziggler and the US title have taken a backseat to the very recently on life support Tag Team and Divas division. Further, we're a week away from Night of Champions, and Ziggler doesn't even have an opponent yet. What more needs to be said about Ziggler as a potential main eventer?

 

[¡Roján!]

Dolph Ziggler definitely has IT. Whatever it is, he has it. No doubt about it. He has the looks of a main-eventer and the mannerisms of one too. And, I'll tell you, he'll be a bright star in WWE's future. All he needs is a little bit of fine tuning, his mic skills aren't up to scratch. Although, average they aren't enough to make him successful. Also, every main-eventer has a sequence of moves which they use to finish the match. Cena has the Flowsion, Five Knuckle Shuffle and FU, for example, whereas Punk has the Knee to the face, bulldog, GTS. Although Dolph has a series of regular moves, they need to be more in sequence, just to get him that little bit more over, so the fans know when he'll hit the Zig-zag or sleeper. It's little things like these that will make him a bona-fide main-eventer, whether he be heel or face.

 

[LSN80]

Dolph Ziggler definitely has IT. Whatever it is, he has it. No doubt about it. He has the looks of a main-eventer and the mannerisms of one too. And, I'll tell you, he'll be a bright star in WWE's future.

The IT factor is being able to deliver on all levels. In the ring, on the mic, charisma-wise, a great look with drawing power being the sum of the 4. Ziggler has the first thing going for him, but he's lacking (at times severely) in the other 4.

He has a decent look, but nothing that jumps out as a great look. His mic skills are below-average, hence the reason Vickie Guerrero has been his manager for over a year now. I don't see much charisma when I look at Ziggler and compare him to a Randy Orton, a John Cena, CM Punk Alberto Del Rio, or Christian, for example. As for drawing power? Have you heard many people say: Raw is going to be great tonight! I hear Dolph Ziggler is wrestling! No.

All he needs is a little bit of fine tuning, his mic skills aren't up to scratch. Although, average they aren't enough to make him successful.

This here is one reason why he doesn't have the IT factor. Mic skills are a big part of establishing a persona that the audience can relate to. Here's what we know about Ziggler based upon his mic skills. He needs someone else to draw heat for him in Vickie Guerrero, and when he does speak, he's either dry and doll or he screams. He needs a little more then just some fine tuning in this department.

Also, every main-eventer has a sequence of moves which they use to finish the match. Cena has the Flowsion, Five Knuckle Shuffle and FU, for example, whereas Punk has the Knee to the face, bulldog, GTS. Although Dolph has a series of regular moves, they need to be more in sequence, just to get him that little bit more over, so the fans know when he'll hit the Zig-zag or sleeper. It's little things like these that will make him a bona-fide main-eventer, whether he be heel or face.

I disagree here. While every wrestler has and should have their protected moves, varying and expanding one's moveset is an important part of being able to main event, especially PPV's. His signature moves are easy to see as well. He uses a quick Fireman's Carry Takeover, a Fireman's Carry Gutbuster, the Fameasser leg lariat, and a Jumping Elbow Drop. All of these usually precede, at least attempts at, the Sleeper and the ZIg-Zag. I do like Ziggler's moveset and think he's very talented between the ropes. But I dont see the other intangibles, mostly drawing power, that will make him a main eventer. Maybe he'll develop that over time, I hopen he does. But I don't see it myself.

 

[¡Roján!]

The IT factor is being able to deliver on all levels. In the ring, on the mic, charisma-wise, a great look with drawing power being the sum of the 4. Ziggler has the first thing going for him, but he's lacking (at times severely) in the other 4.

He has a decent look, but nothing that jumps out as a great look. His mic skills are below-average, hence the reason Vickie Guerrero has been his manager for over a year now. I don't see much charisma when I look at Ziggler and compare him to a Randy Orton, a John Cena, CM Punk Alberto Del Rio, or Christian, for example. As for drawing power? Have you heard many people say: Raw is going to be great tonight! I hear Dolph Ziggler is wrestling! No.



This here is one reason why he doesn't have the IT factor. Mic skills are a big part of establishing a persona that the audience can relate to. Here's what we know about Ziggler based upon his mic skills. He needs someone else to draw heat for him in Vickie Guerrero, and when he does speak, he's either dry and doll or he screams. He needs a little more then just some fine tuning in this department.



I disagree here. While every wrestler has and should have their protected moves, varying and expanding one's moveset is an important part of being able to main event, especially PPV's. His signature moves are easy to see as well. He uses a quick Fireman's Carry Takeover, a Fireman's Carry Gutbuster, the Fameasser leg lariat, and a Jumping Elbow Drop. All of these usually precede, at least attempts at, the Sleeper and the ZIg-Zag. I do like Ziggler's moveset and think he's very talented between the ropes. But I dont see the other intangibles, mostly drawing power, that will make him a main eventer. Maybe he'll develop that over time, I hopen he does. But I don't see it myself.

I respect your opinion LSN, as you know you are like my favourite poster, but, I see something in Dolph Ziggler, he has it, just not yet, if you get me. He has that glint in his eyes that makes me sure he'll be a star. No, of course he hasn't got drawing power. But, did most mid-carders in their first years have drawing power? No. Also, I know this may sound idiotic, but he's always trending on twitter when RAW is on, this may mean nothing, but it proves people ARE talking about him, and he gets reactions from the crowd, which is hard in these WWE times.
And, your comment about him not having a distinctive look couldn't be farther from the truth, in my opinion. He looks like a movie star and his beach blond looks are unique to him, right now.
Finally, your point about him only getting over on Vickie's mic-skills and heat but, you could argue that both times Edge was a main-event heel he had managers, yes, perhaps Lita wasn't a heat magnet, but the way Edge won his first title was. And, with Vickie you could argue that 75% of the boos were for him, same with Ziggles. He may just be one of those guys who works better with a manager. Anyway, time will tell as it does look like he will be turning face and feuding against Swagger.

 

[Marv95]

I can't take a wrestler seriously whose name is Dolph Ziggler, let alone a main eventer. He needs to get his name changed(even to his real name), refresh his gimmick, get rid of that theme song, and only then I can take him seriously as a main eventer. He has good in-ring ability so that's always a plus.

 

[LSN80]

No, of course he hasn't got drawing power.

This is the end-all, be all question that needs to be answered for me when a wrestler is considered for entering the main event scene. Do they have that factor that could allow them to take a lesser star and make them relevant? I don't see that potential in him.

But, did most mid-carders in their first years have drawing power? No.

Another fair point. Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart, among others, slaved in the mid-card. But there was upward traction for them for the most part. Has that been the case with Ziggler? Absolutely not. A main event feud vs Edge, then losing the title in less then 5 minutes. He moves to Raw, wrestles in a junk match at WM27 with LayCool against Morrison, Trish and Snooki. After several months on Raw, he wins the US Title. Where was Ziggler last year? IC Champion. He's trusted to be the star of the mid-card, but what is that saying? No upwards traction. He hasn't been trusted in a feud with the Orton's, Cena's, and Punk's, and it doesn't seem that's coming anytime soon. If you can't even rely on him to have a good feud with the best in the business, why on earth would he be main-event level talent? One that can carry a lesser star in a feud or have a competitive, interesting feud with a top talent? Ziggler hasn't really done either, or been given much of a chance to do so. Ive defined what I consider to be main event talent. Your thoughts?

Also, I know this may sound idiotic, but he's always trending on twitter when RAW is on, this may mean nothing, but it proves people ARE talking about him, and he gets reactions from the crowd, which is hard in these WWE times.

And WWE never lies about facts or trending topics, do they?
I don't use Twitter, so I don't know, but whether he's trending on Twitter or not is highly inconsequential to his status. Unless crowds force WWE into making him a main event star( see: John Cena, CM Punk), he's not going to get there. Care to wager on the odds of that happening?

Finally, your point about him only getting over on Vickie's mic-skills and heat but, you could argue that both times Edge was a main-event heel he had managers, yes, perhaps Lita wasn't a heat magnet, but the way Edge won his first title was.

It was actually the opposite way. Both Vickie and Lita were inconsequential before they hooked up with Edge. Their initial alignment and subsequent heat came because they aligned with Edge, not vice versa. And all Lita did was win two of her four championships in her final year with Edge, and Vickie became the biggest heat magnet in the company because of Edge. While Edge was successfully able to transfer heat to Lita and Vickie, Vickie's enormous heat hasn't transfered to Ziggler.

I like Ziggler, I really do. Im not trying to bash the guy, Im just looking at the facts here. He doesn't have the drawing power nor has he approached it with Vickie Guerrero by his side? What more does he need? I like his look, and his in-ring ability. But there are plenty of guys wrestling on the independant scene with the same qualities. Im not suggesting Ziggler belongs among them, just explaining the gap between him and main event talent.

 

[¡Roján!]

This is the end-all, be all question that needs to be answered for me when a wrestler is considered for entering the main event scene. Do they have that factor that could allow them to take a lesser star and make them relevant? I don't see that potential in him.



Another fair point. Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart, among others, slaved in the mid-card. But there was upward traction for them for the most part. Has that been the case with Ziggler? Absolutely not. A main event feud vs Edge, then losing the title in less then 5 minutes. He moves to Raw, wrestles in a junk match at WM27 with LayCool against Morrison, Trish and Snooki. After several months on Raw, he wins the US Title. Where was Ziggler last year? IC Champion. He's trusted to be the star of the mid-card, but what is that saying? No upwards traction. He hasn't been trusted in a feud with the Orton's, Cena's, and Punk's, and it doesn't seem that's coming anytime soon. If you can't even rely on him to have a good feud with the best in the business, why on earth would he be main-event level talent? One that can carry a lesser star in a feud or have a competitive, interesting feud with a top talent? Ziggler hasn't really done either, or been given much of a chance to do so. Ive defined what I consider to be main event talent. Your thoughts?



And WWE never lies about facts or trending topics, do they?
I don't use Twitter, so I don't know, but whether he's trending on Twitter or not is highly inconsequential to his status. Unless crowds force WWE into making him a main event star( see: John Cena, CM Punk), he's not going to get there. Care to wager on the odds of that happening?




It was actually the opposite way. Both Vickie and Lita were inconsequential before they hooked up with Edge. Their initial alignment and subsequent heat came because they aligned with Edge, not vice versa. And all Lita did was win two of her four championships in her final year with Edge, and Vickie became the biggest heat magnet in the company because of Edge. While Edge was successfully able to transfer heat to Lita and Vickie, Vickie's enormous heat hasn't transfered to Ziggler.

I like Ziggler, I really do. Im not trying to bash the guy, Im just looking at the facts here. He doesn't have the drawing power nor has he approached it with Vickie Guerrero by his side? What more does he need? I like his look, and his in-ring ability. But there are plenty of guys wrestling on the independant scene with the same qualities. Im not suggesting Ziggler belongs among them, just explaining the gap between him and main event talent.

Of course the gap between the main-event and him is not miniscule, but he isn't very far off. A year or so with a good few feuds he can definitely be built up to the main-event.
With regards to your point about him being dropped from the main-event to oblivion in a few months, well, I put this down to bad timing and writing, to be honest. Like I've said before, he doesn't draw, of course he doesn't. And, putting the title on him in the Road to Wrestlemania is idiotic, of course he lost it quickly, and with him being fired from SmackDown well, he was hardly going to be inserted into the main-event on RAW. But, the fact that he even got a place on the card was a miracle. Again, poor writing.
The fact that he is wrestling with the US title is a travesty,but, he arguably gets the biggest reaction for a mid-carder. And, let's not forget he made the IC title look like gold during his run last year during SmackDown, putting on great match after great match.
Also, he does get heat of course he does, even when there was a spell where he abandoned Vickie he did get heat, perhaps not as much. The heat that Edge got during the ''La Familia'' run was from Vickie. The way Edge worked with her and as the ultimate opportunist getting the Undertaker banished, was an awesome way to get heat and it all came from Vickie. With Lita though, yes, you're correct.
Look LSN, I'm not saying that he'll be in the main-event scene soon, but in the future he will be, and this wager you talk of, I'm in. He's basically in the same position as Cody Rhodes, and I'm sure most posters will vouch for me in saying Cody Rhodes will get a main-event run. If you think about it, their year has been very similar. Good building of character, short upper-card run and now IC and US titles respectively.
Sorry about this post being a bit of a mess, but I think you get the jist of what I'm saying.

 

[GW_Hart86]

I really like Dolph Ziggler, he has so much potential and will definately without question one day in the not too distant future be a main eventer and world champion. But to get back to the question on shoudl he become a main eventer?

I would say no, NOT YET!

Let him flourish and build up his character and persona, the last thing anyone wants to see is the WWE rushing him into the main stream before he is ready for it.

 

[warriorforever83]

ziggler will never be more than a mid carder, unless they repackage him, i hate him right now, i literally turn the channel whenever he is on, thats not good, anyone who says he is the second coming of curt hennig is JOKE, he is far from "perfect"

 

[The Future Rises]

ziggler will never be more than a mid carder, unless they repackage him, i hate him right now, i literally turn the channel whenever he is on, thats not good, anyone who says he is the second coming of curt hennig is JOKE, he is far from "perfect"

Can you at least give your reasons for hating him? If you change the channel everytime he has a match then you are missing out on a lot of good matches. Everyone is comparing him to Hennig because he's great in the ring just like Curt was back then. But if you don't even bother watching his matches then I guess I know why you think he's so boring. Trust me. He can go out there and out perform guys like Orton and Cena. That speaks value.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Can you at least give your reasons for hating him? If you change the channel everytime he has a match then you are missing out on a lot of good matches. Everyone is comparing him to Hennig because he's great in the ring just like Curt was back then. But if you don't even bother watching his matches then I guess I know why you think he's so boring. Trust me. He can go out there and out perform guys like Orton and Cena. That speaks value.

So what if he can "outperform" guys like Cena and Orton? I'm sure guys like Malenko and Regal can outperform a lot of the greatest in the industry. It takes more to win a crowd over and stay over more than what you do in the ring. You have to make people care about you whether it is through your words or the psychology and selling within a match. Ziggler isn't there yet.

 

[The Future Rises]

So what if he can "outperform" guys like Cena and Orton? I'm sure guys like Malenko and Regal can outperform a lot of the greatest in the industry. It takes more to win a crowd over and stay over more than what you do in the ring. You have to make people care about you whether it is through your words or the psychology and selling within a match. Ziggler isn't there yet.

Although I do think Ziggler is getting there I wasn't pointing that out. I just can't see why a true wrestling fan would change the channel everytime someone like Ziggler is on TV. No one can deny that he has amazing in ring talent and I don't see why someone wouldn't want to watch his matches just cause he finds his persona boring. You never know Ziggler's in ring talent might just win him some fans one day. Just look at Daniel Bryan. Crappy person yet still over with the crowd because they like seeing him perform in the ring.

 

[macho_boy]

ziggler is ready.. but he hasnt worked hard enough!! remeber when people had to work for a long ass time before getting to win even the ic championship.. now your in the company 5 mins and everyone is like "yeh i think he will be world champion next year" and he probly will coz thats how things are done now, but i dont like it

 

[The Future Rises]

ziggler is ready.. but he hasnt worked hard enough!! remeber when people had to work for a long ass time before getting to win even the ic championship.. now your in the company 5 mins and everyone is like "yeh i think he will be world champion next year" and he probly will coz thats how things are done now, but i dont like it

Ziggler has been in the company for a long ass time. He had two gimmicks before becoming Dolph Ziggler. First one being Kerwin White's(Chavo) caddy going by "Nick Nemeth" his real name and the second one is the one that people will never stop criticize him for the mail cheerleader gimmick that he had while apart of the Spirit Squad back in 2006/2007. You can tell that he worked hard and has come along way surviving those two crappy gimmicks.

 

[Bender]

Ziggler has great potential to become a main eventer, he is a young talented human being with great mic skills and is great in the ring. But I don't think he is taken seriously enough, people don't take him seriously. He doesn't have a great enough push to succeed in doing so.