Shooting in San Bernadino, California

[It's Damn Real!]

The way the term is used in conventional and social media, especially by the regressive liberals, is designed to shout down anyone critical of religion. It works in the same way "racist" and "bigot" do. If you call your opponent either, they now have been forced into explaining why they aren't, even if you never had a leg to stand on in calling them either in the first place.

So you call someone an Islamaphobe, and now, instead of having the conversation you should be having, about religion, or more specifically, the religion of Islam, you are forced to fend off these absurd claims, explaining why you aren't actually bigoted toward Middle Eastern-looking people. It's ridiculous.

 

[JGlass]

The way the term is used in conventional and social media, especially by the regressive liberals, is designed to shout down anyone critical of religion. It works in the same way "racist" and "bigot" do. If you call your opponent either, they now have been forced into explaining why they aren't, even if you never had a leg to stand on in calling them either in the first place.

So you call someone an Islamaphobe, and now, instead of having the conversation you should be having, about religion, or more specifically, the religion of Islam, you are forced to fend off these absurd claims, explaining why you aren't actually bigoted toward Middle Eastern-looking people. It's ridiculous.

I understand your point and agree with it in the way you describe it. That said, I think people in this country are fearful of the practitioners of Islam, not the religion itself, so I feel like the label of Islamaphobic still applies.

 

[Reflection]

why would you call it terrorism in the first place?

As it turns out, the woman pledged her allegiance to ISIS, online, before carrying out the attack... I guess we can call it terrorism now; seems to have a political motive and inspiration.

Spoiler

http://m.timesofindia.com/world/us/...book.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=TOI

And I quote, "Malik, a Pakistani native who had been living in Saudi Arabia when she married Farook, posted an online statement of support for a leader of Islamic State on an account using a name other than her own, CNN said. The attack in San Bernardino appeared to be inspired by - but not directed by - the militant group."
I disagree with the final line of the above quote, because while ISIS didn't directly orchestrate the attack, their directives and examples are pretty clear for their fans.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Yea it uh, just checks every box.

Alright, everyone get out your Islamist apologist bingo cards!

 

[yourdamnluck]

Islam kills rational thinking right from the beginning. They are told not to question their religion which in turn means religious leaders and thats why they are easily radicalized. It's pure blind faith they don't even stop for a second to think may be Prophet lied to get laid, 4 wives ease of getting divorced. They don't even ask why should they starve for a month? May be kings back then were out of food so they put a month's fasting in religion to save food and water.
Their belief is so strong that they are still keeping 4 wives, making babies at full speed and waiting for the proverbial Qayamat(Judgement day) when Islam will be triumphant.
I have talked to some of the self proclaimed muslim intellectuals. They justify all the heinous acts committed by these terrorists Bin-laden to Charlie hebedo attackers.
And my personal favorite they actually believe Islamic culture is much much better than western. 1 guy said USA has 17% Aids (actual figure <1%) because of their "Open society".
These guys are taught twisted history and Statistics apparently. Nobody is willing to have a sane discussion on how to reform the archaic islamic practices. We have two sets of people 1st one call themselves liberals, they defend these terror attacks and are unwilling to accept there is anything wrong with the religion. And the 2nd type who want to brand every muslim a terrorist.

The world should be afraid of Islam and what it preaches. In its current absolutist form islam is a threat. These liberals and conservatives need to have a sane debate on islam.
Question the religion of majority and you are a liberal intellectual. Question the religion of minority and you are a bigot. This is the biggest and stupidest problem world over.

 

[JGlass]

Islam kills rational thinking right from the beginning. They are told not to question their religion which in turn means religious leaders and thats why they are easily radicalized. It's pure blind faith they don't even stop for a second to think may be Prophet lied to get laid, 4 wives ease of getting divorced. They don't even ask why should they starve for a month? May be kings back then were out of food so they put a month's fasting in religion to save food and water.
Their belief is so strong that they are still keeping 4 wives, making babies at full speed and waiting for the proverbial Qayamat(Judgement day) when Islam will be triumphant.
I have talked to some of the self proclaimed muslim intellectuals. They justify all the heinous acts committed by these terrorists Bin-laden to Charlie hebedo attackers.
And my personal favorite they actually believe Islamic culture is much much better than western. 1 guy said USA has 17% Aids (actual figure <1%) because of their "Open society".
These guys are taught twisted history and Statistics apparently. Nobody is willing to have a sane discussion on how to reform the archaic islamic practices. We have two sets of people 1st one call themselves liberals, they defend these terror attacks and are unwilling to accept there is anything wrong with the religion. And the 2nd type who want to brand every muslim a terrorist.

The world should be afraid of Islam and what it preaches. In its current absolutist form islam is a threat. These liberals and conservatives need to have a sane debate on islam.
Question the religion of majority and you are a liberal intellectual. Question the religion of minority and you are a bigot. This is the biggest and stupidest problem world over.

lol

 

[ABMorales787]

Islam kills rational thinking right from the beginning. They are told not to question their religion which in turn means religious leaders and thats why they are easily radicalized. It's pure blind faith they don't even stop for a second to think may be Prophet lied to get laid, 4 wives ease of getting divorced. They don't even ask why should they starve for a month? May be kings back then were out of food so they put a month's fasting in religion to save food and water.
Their belief is so strong that they are still keeping 4 wives, making babies at full speed and waiting for the proverbial Qayamat(Judgement day) when Islam will be triumphant.
I have talked to some of the self proclaimed muslim intellectuals. They justify all the heinous acts committed by these terrorists Bin-laden to Charlie hebedo attackers.
And my personal favorite they actually believe Islamic culture is much much better than western. 1 guy said USA has 17% Aids (actual figure <1%) because of their "Open society".
These guys are taught twisted history and Statistics apparently. Nobody is willing to have a sane discussion on how to reform the archaic islamic practices. We have two sets of people 1st one call themselves liberals, they defend these terror attacks and are unwilling to accept there is anything wrong with the religion. And the 2nd type who want to brand every muslim a terrorist.

The world should be afraid of Islam and what it preaches. In its current absolutist form islam is a threat. These liberals and conservatives need to have a sane debate on islam.
Question the religion of majority and you are a liberal intellectual. Question the religion of minority and you are a bigot. This is the biggest and stupidest problem world over.

By all means. While we're at it, we should kill every catholic out there since those pedophile priests were catholic.

 

[JGlass]

Islam kills rational thinking right from the beginning. They are told not to question their religion which in turn means religious leaders and thats why they are easily radicalized. It's pure blind faith they don't even stop for a second to think may be Prophet lied to get laid, 4 wives ease of getting divorced. They don't even ask why should they starve for a month? May be kings back then were out of food so they put a month's fasting in religion to save food and water.
Their belief is so strong that they are still keeping 4 wives, making babies at full speed and waiting for the proverbial Qayamat(Judgement day) when Islam will be triumphant.
I have talked to some of the self proclaimed muslim intellectuals. They justify all the heinous acts committed by these terrorists Bin-laden to Charlie hebedo attackers.
And my personal favorite they actually believe Islamic culture is much much better than western. 1 guy said USA has 17% Aids (actual figure <1%) because of their "Open society".
These guys are taught twisted history and Statistics apparently. Nobody is willing to have a sane discussion on how to reform the archaic islamic practices. We have two sets of people 1st one call themselves liberals, they defend these terror attacks and are unwilling to accept there is anything wrong with the religion. And the 2nd type who want to brand every muslim a terrorist.

The world should be afraid of Islam and what it preaches. In its current absolutist form islam is a threat. These liberals and conservatives need to have a sane debate on islam.
Question the religion of majority and you are a liberal intellectual. Question the religion of minority and you are a bigot. This is the biggest and stupidest problem world over.

And now for a serious response:

I can only assume you're an atheist if you think that followers of Islam are foolish for not suspecting that their prophet made up the religion to get laid.

You are talking about fundamental Islam as if all Muslims are followers of fundamentalism. But Islam, like any religion, has a wide array of follower. There are those that are extremely fundamental whom hermit themselves from mainstream society. There are other fundamentalists that are militant. There are some observant Muslims who partake in daily prayer, Ramadan, and other traditional Muslim practices, but also partake in modern society. And of course, there are Muslims who were raised in an Islamic household or community that identify with the religion, but don't actively practice it.

Yes, there are some Muslims out there that hold dangerous beliefs that can be detrimental to society. But there are also Jews and Christians who hold dangerous beliefs that can be detrimental to society.

Our enemy is not Islam, it is ISIS and other Islamic extremists that practice violence.

 

[yourdamnluck]

I do believe in God. But religion I believe was made to control people and to expand kingdoms. People would starve but won't rebel because king was a distant relative of god.

I'm sure God didn't come to earth to guide humans. And sure as hell God won't make anything that kills people. More people have died in religious violence than all the wars combined.
We are people who went to space and back. There is no point following Something that was left by primitive minds.
Many theories in science have been proved wrong. The concept of religion may be wrong as well.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

It's hard to fully understand Islam in its current state, especially the way women are treated. I always hear how beautiful a religion it really is, yet it doesn't seem to be practiced that way. I'm not scared of Muslims nor do I think generalizing helps anyone, but if there are so many fantastic, caring Muslims, I'd like to hear more from them.

 

[JGlass]

It's hard to fully understand Islam in its current state, especially the way women are treated. I always hear how beautiful a religion it really is, yet it doesn't seem to be practiced that way. I'm not scared of Muslims nor do I think generalizing helps anyone, but if there are so many fantastic, caring Muslims, I'd like to hear more from them.

I loathe this sentiment, and it's made quite frequently. When a white guy shoots up a school, we don't expect the white community to put on a show to show how most of them are good people.

Furthermore, there are plenty of Muslims who DO good things. There was a story over Thanksgiving about a Mosque that had a huge Thanksgiving dinner for their town's homeless population. But most news outlets don't want to run stories like that because fear-mongering stories about Islam pull in far more viewers than feel good stories, especially when if you really want to feel good you can just type in, "funny cat pictures," to google images.

 

[X]

....I like funny cat pictures.

 

[HBK-aholic]

if there are so many fantastic, caring Muslims, I'd like to hear more from them.

Then open your fucking eyes. How are there so many ignorant people on this damn forum.

There are literally peaceful, caring Muslims EVERYWHERE. Why? Because they are literally the vast majority of people who follow Islam, especially in the West. The uneducated minority who believe they are attacking innocents (including Muslims!) are so uninformed on the matter of their 'own' religion that they're literally going against everything it teaches.

Why when Westboro Baptist Church do something really fucking stupid, why when the KKK were killing non-whites, why when the white terrorists bombed Planned Parenthood recently, was I as a Christian not immediately blamed and made to apologise and explain my religion? Because it has nothing to do with me? Because they're not real Christians? Because they're not following anything my religion says to do? So why are Muslims facing these same questions?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Why when Westboro Baptist Church do something really fucking stupid, why when the KKK were killing non-whites, why when the white terrorists bombed Planned Parenthood recently, was I as a Christian not immediately blamed and made to apologise and explain my religion? Because it has nothing to do with me? Because they're not real Christians? Because they're not following anything my religion says to do? So why are Muslims facing these same questions?

Speaking of things that are getting old, this right here.


Westboro Baptist Church is not beheading people and shooting office buildings during Christmas parties. The KKK isnt a thing anymore, most certainley not one who is killing thousands as I type this. The Westboro Baptist church writes mean words on poster board, they have not started a calipahte were they burn people alive and sell women and children as sex slaves. Hello. They also number in.... the hundreds? MAYBE a thousand? Not literally million(s?) as we laid out that Jihadists and their supoorters do, in stats we pointed out the last time we had to have this talk.....about two weeks ago.


The reason muslims and Islam is under fire and Christianity isnt is because people are not slaughtering thousands in the name of Christianity and making large scale terror attacks specifically in the name of their faith on a regular basis.

To say it isnt anywere in their religion is also false. There is plenty of encouragement of violence in their books, as there are in Christianity. ISIL and those who are encouraged by them are following literal interpretations of things in their book. (we laid this out in great detail the last time we all had to have this talk....You know, again, two weeks ago)...As I said though, People havent killed in the name of Christianity on these scales for hundreds of years. SO when someone tries to pipe up with "WELL CHRISTIANS DID IT TOO!" It sort of makes me wonder what the hell that has anything to do with anything with wanting this stopped here, in the modern age?


I in no way think its ALRIGHT to opress Muslims, but to think that no one should feel uncomfortable towards that religion after the last 12 - 15 years is absurd. "ZOMG WHY IS IT ONLY MUSLIMS WHO HAVE TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS?!?!" Well because Christians didnt blow up the twin towers, the London subway, establish a caliphate, behead people, burn people alive, sell women and children as sex slaves AS I TYPE THIS, and have large scale killing sprees on innocent people on a regular basis, all in the explicit name of their faith. Thats why. I don't know why people are acting dense about this.


These ARE Muslims, doing this in the name of a literal interpretation of Islam.


Unfortunately, its a very unteniable situation, since fighting them in an "us Vs Islam" kind of way only pours gas on their fire. While I dont condone the opression of Muslims, its silly as hell for people to keep trying to make this comparison.

 

[Shocky]

The Westboro Baptist Church has 40 members, which to my knowledge, has never carried out any physical threats. A church of 40.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I loathe this sentiment, and it's made quite frequently. When a white guy shoots up a school, we don't expect the white community to put on a show to show how most of them are good people.

Likely because "being a white person" isnt an ideology or sited by the shooters themselves as motiviation to shoot up schools. Much as no one held the black or gay community responsible when that dude shot those news casters on live TV and then tweeted about it.



No one is screaming about the teachings of white patron saint Hank Williams while they carry out these killings and pointing to their existance as explicit motiviation for what they did.



You guys. My god. More reaching going in this thread than fucking ladder match.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

This is one of these situations where it's almost impossible for anything to be done. In a lot of ways, we as Americans are spoiled in the sense that so many of us simply want everything. We want to feel safe, secure, we want crime reduced, we want these mass shootings to stop but, at the same time, so many don't want to do anything whatsoever that even remotely impedes on the Second Amendment. It's a complete catch-22 in that so many wanna see all this shit resolved without gun control measures being taken.

The thing about gun control is that it's sort of a pipe dream in many ways because a shitload of the gun control measures we already have aren't all that heavily enforced in many situations; it's even more pronounced in certain states more than others. The NRA lobbyists are among the most well funded, well connected and overall powerful political voices in the United States; the NRA itself is so heavily entrenched in politics that any sort of gun control measure that comes before lawmakers is all but squashed before it really even begins. I mean...c'mon, if the slaughter of two dozen elementary school children in Sandy Hook isn't enough to bring about changes in gun control policy, then I can't think of anything that will.

As far as the issues concerning Islam, the way I see it is that while there are many genuinely peaceful, caring and non-violent Muslims, there are numerous passages in the Quran that advocate violence.

Verses 191-192 of the 2nd chapter of the Quran says: "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun." The term Al-Fitnah translates into disbelief or unrest while Az-Zalimun translates into wrong-doers, sinners, etc. especially those who have different religious beliefs.

Quran 2:216 - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran 4:95 - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit . Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward." This passage seems to criticize followers of Islam who're peaceful and don't participate in violence towards nonbelievers, letting them know that they're less worthy in the eyes of Allah.

It goes on and on like this as there are well over 100 verses within the Quran that encourage faithful Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Now, obviously, there are numerous followers of Islam who don't condone violence and who don't participate in it. It's also true that various other religions have dogma, especially in Christianity's Old Testament, that espouse violence to some degree. However, the problem when comparing modern day Christian zealots with Islamic extremists is like comparing apples and oranges. Using the Westboro Baptist Church as an example, though it personally offends me to think of this place as a church, yes, they spew hateful propaganda towards anyone who doesn't agree with their views. Islamic extremists, on the other hand, fly airplanes into skyscrapers, decapitate captured civilians who don't denounce their beliefs in favor of Islam, use suicide bombers with the express purpose of killing as many other people as they can and engage in mass shootings to kill as many others as they can.

Now, it's important not to sink into the mob mentality of holding all Muslims responsible for the actions of a few. However, this isn't something that's going to simply go away because there are numerous passages within Islam's holy book itself that encourages and commands acts of violence and terror against nonbelievers. To some degree, we are at war with Islam as there are people who're literally going by exactly what the book says and all the PC jargon in the world isn't gonna change that. If people are offended by it, tough shit, because it's just how it is.

 

[X]

People bad, guns bad, religion bad.

/Thread.

 

[JGlass]

Likely because "being a white person" isnt an ideology or sited by the shooters themselves as motiviation to shoot up schools. Much as no one held the black or gay community responsible when that dude shot those news casters on live TV and then tweeted about it.



No one is screaming about the teachings of white patron saint Hank Williams while they carry out these killings and pointing to their existance as explicit motiviation for what they did.



You guys. My god. More reaching going in this thread than fucking ladder match.

That's ABSOLUTELY incorrect. Maybe in this particular situation you highlighted the black/gay communities weren't blamed for the violence, but people frequently call on black community leaders to speak against violence perpetrated by African Americans. I don't think people blame the gay community for much except the decline of American family values, but they probably don't care much about what the gay leaders have to say anyway.

I just think it's bullshit that people who have nothing to do with the violence committed by people that they probably don't even consider part of their community should be made to acknowledge them as members of their community. I don't condone what Israel does to Palestinians, and I fucking hate it when people assume that, just because I'm Jewish, I fall on the side of Israel on all issues. I can only imagine Muslims have that same feeling but times a million.

I'd also like to add that I'm not saying that there's no way that Islam can be interpreted as a violent religion. In the Paris attacks thread I made it a point to illustrate that ISIS' interpretation of the Quaran isn't that far-fetched and everything they do has either religious or historical precedent. My argument is simply that we shouldn't expect people who radically differ from another group of people with very few similarities should be forced to relate to people they likely consider monsters.

 

[klunderbunker]

Obama is speaking on this at the moment. He's calling on Congress to act on this.

"I cannot imagine the justification for allowing someone on a terrorism watch list to be able to buy a semi-automatic weapon."

Oh I'm sure there's going to be a justification for it.

 

[X]

Why do you hate the Palestinians so JGlass? Why must you bomb their children? WHAT DID THEY EVER DO TO YOU

 

[Jack-Hammer]

People bad, guns bad, religion bad.

/Thread.

Meh, religion sort of strikes me as an easy scapegoat for why human beings massacre each other. If not religious convictions, however misguided they might be, there'd always be something else. After all, history shows that if there's ever been anything we've never needed reasons for or had no trouble coming up with, it's excuses to kill each other.

 

[JGlass]

Why do you hate the Palestinians so JGlass? Why must you bomb their children? WHAT DID THEY EVER DO TO YOU

So my sister was actually targeted by pro-Israel people because she is Jewish and she made a Facebook post in regards to a pro-Israeli speaker that came to her college campus and responded poorly to a peaceful protest against him (and it wasn't even against the fact that he was pro-Israel, it was because he was doing something called pink washing (which I don't really understand, but that's neither here nor there)), and started saying that her college campus was a dangerous place for Jews and that the Jews lived in constant fear of being assaulted by pro-Palestinian people. My sister simply told him that he was wrong and that it was sad that he was resorting to those tactics to besmirch people who disagree with them, and suddenly comments started pouring in calling my sister a bad Jew, hoping she is killed by a terrorist, and other hateful things.

I'm just saying, I don't want to be lumped in with the Jews who do shit like that. I want to be lumped in with like, Larry David and the Jewish half of Lenny Kravitz.

 

[A11oftheLights]

I hate when people start quoting the violent parts of the Quran. There are numerous verses in the bible that are just as bad. And before anyone can say they are in the Old Testament so it doesnt apply to christianity because of Jesus, no. Jesus came to enforce the scripture, which for him was the Old Testament, therefore it still applies.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

I hate when people start quoting the violent parts of the Quran. There are numerous verses in the bible that are just as bad. And before anyone can say they are in the Old Testament so it doesnt apply to christianity because of Jesus, no. Jesus came to enforce the scripture, which for him was the Old Testament, therefore it still applies.

Jesus came as the fulfillment of the law actually not to enforce scripture

What law you ask? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind & Soul and Love your neighbor as yourself.

In a word the law he came to fulfill was Love.

So no it doesn't apply to Christianity, some Christians just don't know what they're talking about.