RAW Divas: Eye Candy or Entertainment?

[Evan Snow-Wolf]

Having just watched my taped episode of this week's RAW, I was astoundedly impressed with the Divas match. In fact, I thought it was the best match of the night! Compared to the Divas' matches in the wake of Trish and Lita's departures, this is a welcome sight, IMO. Having Mickie James, Beth Phoenix, Kelly Kelly, and Victoria in the ring was actually kind of impressive. Was that a bridge into a backslide attempt by Kelly Kelly, or did I imagine that!?

So what's your take? Have the RAW divas stepped up to the point of legitmately entertaining wrestling matches, or are they still just sub-tier eye candy?

 

[PhoenixFan89]

well actually all the divas have been stepping up as of lately and ashley...well ashley hasnt been on my tv screen or in the ring that much so im happy, but what i do see of the women matches as of late they all have been improving i was even impressed by the ecw womens match that happened yesterday night, so with all this being said it seems the women cant just get by with there looks anymore they actually have to be doing something whether its valeting, being a backstage interviewer, or training to wrestle and now with the edition of katie lea on RAW (she's making her debut next week) i can honestly say...yeah let them step up to the entertainment platform cuz unless im deaf the crowd was really hot for that match aswell as the one that happened on ecw.

 

[Mr. Showtime]

For the most part the raw divas have improved drastically. I never would have thought this time last year that candice michelle would be womens champion and a decent wrestler. Maria and kelly kelly have also really improved they definetlly show enthusiasm and deication to get better.

Besides theres nothing wrong with being eye candy and being able to wrestle at the same time. That being said im not a big fan of the pure eye candy, such as Ashley & Eve. If i wanted eye candy i wouldn't be watching ''wrestling'' to see it.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I haven't been a fan of the womens division in recent years in the WWE. Gone are the days when Lita, Trish and Chyna could all get in the ring and give the men a run for their money in terms of who had the best match that night. The women's championship actually meant something back in those days, and was a prestigious belt.

I think Victoria and Pheonix are the best in the division right now. They can put on a good match and are entertaining. However tI think their talent is wasted due to the fact very few people can go up against them. The two wouldn't be able to hold many feuds due to the fact no one else is 'up there' with them in terms of skill.

The divas have recently just become there to look at. They're an attraction none the less, but it kind of pulls womens wrestling down, as a lot of people see what the WWE class as a womens division and automatically pull out of any thought of women being able to wrestle.

The WWE need to spend some time investing in the womens and tag teams division, as these once great division are being turned into nothing.

 

[Rusty]

Wow now that u mention it, I have noticed a great improvement with the divas matches. The tag team match on Raw was pretty darn good. Candice has improved soo much over the last few months before she got injured. I hope she comes back very soon.

But man.... Kelly Kelly. When she first joined ECW, all she was, was eye candy. But now, I cannot believe how much she has improved especially in the last few weeks!!! She is a totally different wrestler with cool moves that Id thought she would never be able to do.

Beth is also pretty good and has loads of strength. Maria is getting better but she not quite up to the standard the other Raw divas are at the moment.

Mickie is great. She good looking, what more could you ask for really. Jillian is pretty good but doesnt get enough time to wrestle unfortunately. Ashley is well.. eye candy and to be honest.. I dnt think shes all that hot compared to the other divas.

But anyway.. the divas on Raw are mostly entertainment by being great wrestlers with some eye candy too and there nothing wrong with that!!!

 

[Danmen001]

Yeah I have noticed it too, it's pretty good, and for me they wrestled a more entertaining mathc this week then say.......Khali ever can and will , well thats a story in its own.....But Mickie is definately the best wrestler in the womens division and she gets the best pop usually. I think the womens division has gone up this week in terms of entertainment, lets hope it keeps getting better ......and that this doesn't happen to it again

 

[Agrex]

The Divas are there just for the crowd to take a break, and look at some girls. So yes, in my opinion, they are only eye-candy. Three quarters of the Diva roster can't wrestle, and that's an understatement. The only divas that somehow can pull off a match are; Victoria, Beth Poenix, Melina, and Mickie James. The rest is pure shit. In myopinion the Womens title lost all prestige when Candice won it, and now she looks like she's gonna win the title again, which makes me sick. I personally expect nothing from the Divas, and get nothing.

 

[Father:_Polley]

improved compared to what they what used to be doesnt say much. only the 4 agrex has pointed out plus jillian hall can actually pull off a decent match... and melina, jillian and victoria dont really get a chance most of the time. the rest r just fillers for their T&A qualities.

the fact is that wwe pushes what sells. given the target audience of young men, they assume barely there outfits on a playboy covergirl in lingerie pillowfights is the way to sell women's wrestling.

signing models to the roster in the diva search isn't doing this reputation any favours either. i'm not out to start a wwe vs tna debate here, but at least tna signed wrestlers, with looks as purely a bonus.

ok, maybe they'll improve in the ring... i mean who really thought trish stratus would become one of the best wwe women's wrestlers when she debuted, but they'll always be playing catch-up to the trained wrestlers, which still makes them look like amateurs in the ring.

that's why the diva's will never be more than eye.

 

[NYSandman]

Man, it's been awhile! Busy, busy busy. Here goes.

The Diva's seem to have always been meant to be eye candy, at least that's how I perceive it. I'm not saying this is right, but it is probably the attitute of WWE's back office.

Years ago, around Mullah's time, it seemed like the ladies were showcased more as athletes than sex symbols.

I agree that the Divas seem to be stepping up their in ring performance, which is good.

One of the best RAW matches I've seen was Trish against Lita, both of whome are legitamite wrestlers, IMO.

When a girl signs up for WWE, I am sure she knows what is expected of her, wearing skimpy outfits, getting breast enlargements, etc. There's nothing wrong with that. If I were a woman, and was offered a few hundred grand a year to caper around 3/4 naked, hell yeah I'd do it.

I think we need a good mix of sexy and skill. I hope that Vince shows respect to these ladies, and doesn't just see them as objects.

But, I don't think it crosses the line for him to say you're gonna go out there and you're gonna do pin falls with your legs up, and wear next to nothing.

If both he and the ladies keep that mindset as business only, then it is okay. But, if Vince truly believes these girls have no value except for sex, then he is an asshole.

I find myself thinking both ways. "Wow, these girls are hot, Hot, HOT!" "Damn! Look at the match these two are having!" I must admit, however, that I will see them more as sex symbols IF they suck in the ring. If they can wrestle well, then I'll usually look past the outfits and bodies. Kong in TNA isn't exactly what I'd call sexy, although I WOULD do her in a second! I like powerful women. But, she can wrestle better than 90 percent of the girls out there.

 

[noone911]

They are better than they used to be but you have to admit that the divas matches are pretty terrible. That's due to WWE putting people out there who have no business wrestling. Beth Phoenix, Victoria and Mickie Jame are decent, Melina is fairly ok but not that great, but Candice (who has improved radically), Maria, Tori, Michelle McCool. Kelly Kelly and others are simply supposed to be "hot chicks who can have matches." Only thing though is that while sometimes they pull off nice moves the matches generally look slow and terrible with simple moves looking weak and bigger moves taking too much clear set up time.

 

[Father:_Polley]

When a girl signs up for WWE, I am sure she knows what is expected of her, wearing skimpy outfits, getting breast enlargements, etc. There's nothing wrong with that. If I were a woman, and was offered a few hundred grand a year to caper around 3/4 naked, hell yeah I'd do it.


I find myself thinking both ways. "Wow, these girls are hot, Hot, HOT!" "Damn! Look at the match these two are having!" I must admit, however, that I will see them more as sex symbols IF they suck in the ring. If they can wrestle well, then I'll usually look past the outfits and bodies. Kong in TNA isn't exactly what I'd call sexy, although I WOULD do her in a second! I like powerful women. But, she can wrestle better than 90 percent of the girls out there.

for a few hundred grand...i'd do it whether i was female or not.

there's always going to be that element of sexuality in the women's matches to keep the guys interested, and it's true that it's hard not to stare at melina's entrance (as a guy). but as you say, it's impossible to look at them as anything more than sex symbols if they suck.

As for Kong...she'd kill you. though from the sound of that post you might enjoy the process

 

[Bernkastel]

The RAW womens division is eye candy dominant and is booked to have a woman's looks seem more important than her talent. Its pretty obvious when WWE hires one model after the other, solely for good looks. If a woman with exceptional talent is hired, she is either pushed aside or saddled with a deabilitating gimmick right away, so as to not take away from the often unrealistic images that the models propose with their looks. Most women in the WWE womens division have probably spent more time and effort modifying their bodies than they do trying to improve their in ring skills, and yet some of these girls actually wonder why the IWC and most of their peers in the womens wrestling world don't think that highly of them. And others, despite showing some hard working efforts, are trust into a position that they cannot fulfill, because these certain women do not have the respect from their peers just yet. They are still looked upon as just eye candy, promoting good looks over actual skill and hard work.

 

[BoomDizzle]

I think the divas on Raw are used as eye-candy more than sport entertainers. Vince would put up the policy of "covering up" a couple of times and quickly that rule is thrown out of the building. Knowing how good and athletic some of the divas on Raw are, I cannot take them seriously because how short the matches are. Also, how on some occasions that Mickie James would be the ones being jobbed, when Ashley and Maria are also in the same matches and they're not the ones being jobbed.

Also, I hate Jerry Lawler because his commentating always seems to me that he's down playing the divas, by bringing up how beautiful that are. Don't get me wrong, they are beautiful, but during that time in the match, they're wrestlers, not beauty pageant contestants.

 

[psykohurricane]

The RAW womens division is eye candy dominant and is booked to have a woman's looks seem more important than her talent. Its pretty obvious when WWE hires one model after the other, solely for good looks. If a woman with exceptional talent is hired, she is either pushed aside or saddled with a deabilitating gimmick right away, so as to not take away from the often unrealistic images that the models propose with their looks. Most women in the WWE womens division have probably spent more time and effort modifying their bodies than they do trying to improve their in ring skills, and yet some of these girls actually wonder why the IWC and most of their peers in the womens wrestling world don't think that highly of them. And others, despite showing some hard working efforts, are trust into a position that they cannot fulfill, because these certain women do not have the respect from their peers just yet. They are still looked upon as just eye candy, promoting good looks over actual skill and hard work.

I cannot talk for everybody in the IWC or for the woman's wrestling community has whole but i think that since last year, the WWE has book the divas more has wrestlers then eye candy. Except for Ashley, i got to say that every other divas have improve a lot and are becomming better wrestlers and that what i like to see. I know that some of them are still really green when i come to wrestling but the more they wrestles the more they are going to improve. Finally, i got to say something about a comment you made about the wwe divas spending more time modifying their bodies then trying to improve their wrestling skill. It's kind of a stupid comment since 90% of all woman wrestlers in the north america has spend time modifying their bodies in some way. If you want proof just look at all the woman's that wrestles in WEW or TNA. Most of them got work done. Even talented divas like mikie james and victoria got some work done at some point in their career so to say that divas like maria and KElly Kelly spend more time modifying their body instead of trying to improve their wrestling skill is just stupid and false since these girls are trying real hard to improve their wrestling skill and i'm with what i read in this topic am happy that some of the IWC sees how the WWE Divas are working hard to improve.

 

[klunderbunker]

I agree that the division has been rapidly improving. Kelly has been getting better at such an amazing rate, while victoria, beth, melina and mickie always are great. Ashley and jillian....not so much. Candice when she gets back is going to get a huge push as it seems they are trying to make her the next trish. As for the eye candy part, it's hard to ignore the fact that the divas are all gorgeous and very rarely wrestle in more than a bikini, not that that's a bad thing. Besides it's hard to call them eye candy, when the majority of the men are in skin tight spandex which leaves little to the imagination.

 

[NYSandman]

I think the divas on Raw are used as eye-candy more than sport entertainers. Vince would put up the policy of "covering up" a couple of times and quickly that rule is thrown out of the building. Knowing how good and athletic some of the divas on Raw are, I cannot take them seriously because how short the matches are. Also, how on some occasions that Mickie James would be the ones being jobbed, when Ashley and Maria are also in the same matches and they're not the ones being jobbed.

Also, I hate Jerry Lawler because his commentating always seems to me that he's down playing the divas, by bringing up how beautiful that are. Don't get me wrong, they are beautiful, but during that time in the match, they're wrestlers, not beauty pageant contestants.

I understand your feelings completely, but that is Lawler's character, a horny old man who likes "puppies." JR always calls the girls matches straight, while Lawler is a pig.

Again, that is his job as a color man, to provide, well, color to the whole thing.

He's also not the first announcer I've heard do this, and I'm sure his instructions come straight from Vince.

LOL, because I can imagine how most of the lady fans must dislike Lawler, and the horny teenagers, (and, horny middle-agers like me,) love him for it!

 

[Eternal Dragon]

I agree that the division has been rapidly improving. Kelly has been getting better at such an amazing rate, while victoria, beth, melina and mickie always are great. Ashley and jillian....not so much. Candice when she gets back is going to get a huge push as it seems they are trying to make her the next trish. As for the eye candy part, it's hard to ignore the fact that the divas are all gorgeous and very rarely wrestle in more than a bikini, not that that's a bad thing. Besides it's hard to call them eye candy, when the majority of the men are in skin tight spandex which leaves little to the imagination.

I always find it funny when people say Jillian isn't improving...well I mean she's been wrestling for ten years. I say she is already good enough. I've grown to love her gimmick (she does wonders with it), and even though I don't think she has made a big enough impact in the women's division to really make her an important figure, she is entertaining enough. Hopefully the WWE will let Jillian show off her in-ring talent, as well as her "singing" in the future and that 2008 will finally make her the Women's Champion.

Oh and as for your point on men wearing tight spandex, that's very much true, but it's very rare for them to be only protrayed as, well eye candy.

I think that most of the women in the WWE could be MORE than just eye candy, but they aren't percieved as such because of how the WWE likes to protray them. On Raw you have Melina, Mickie, Beth, Jillian, Candice, Ashley, and Maria. Out of those seven, I'd say that Ashley and Maria are the only two who can't do much more than be eye candy though Maria has improved slightly from the past year. Then on ECW you have Layla, Kelly, and Lena. Layla and Kelly have both been doing so well in the ring in such a short amount of time. Layla's been doing shows with EWF (also where Melina was trained in 2000) and Kelly's trained at OVW. Of course they aren't at a level where we can call them good female wrestlers, but they're well on their way. I know Lena has been extremely busy with ECW (last time we heard from her was about a week and half ago) and that she's been at houseshows, but hasn't yet been in a match. For now, as much as I love Lena, she does fit more into the eye candy role on ECW, though I like her heel character. Finally, on SD we've got Victoria, Michelle, Torrie, Cherry, and Maryse. Out of those five I think all of them are more than or have the potential to be more than eye candy. Victoria is a proven veteran in the ring, Torrie is a good wrestler despite what some people may think, Michelle has improved so much over the past two years, Cherry can also wrestle, though she usually manages, and from the houseshow reports that I have read, Maryse has been doing fantastic in matches (even if she's never featured on TV).

So what we can gather from that is the fact that while many of the divas are used and will be used as eye candy, they have the proficiency to be more than that. In this case the characterization doesn't necessarily state a diva's wrestling capablility.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[klunderbunker]

I always find it funny when people say Jillian isn't improving...well I mean she's been wrestling for ten years. I say she is already good enough. I've grown to love her gimmick (she does wonders with it), and even though I don't think she has made a big enough impact in the women's division to really make her an important figure, she is entertaining enough. Hopefully the WWE will let Jillian show off her in-ring talent, as well as her "singing" in the future and that 2008 will finally make her the Women's Champion.

Oh and as for your point on men wearing tight spandex, that's very much true, but it's very rare for them to be only protrayed as, well eye candy.

I think that most of the women in the WWE could be MORE than just eye candy, but they aren't percieved as such because of how the WWE likes to protray them. On Raw you have Melina, Mickie, Beth, Jillian, Candice, Ashley, and Maria. Out of those seven, I'd say that Ashley and Maria are the only two who can't do much more than be eye candy though Maria has improved slightly from the past year. Then on ECW you have Layla, Kelly, and Lena. Layla and Kelly have both been doing so well in the ring in such a short amount of time. Layla's been doing shows with EWF (also where Melina was trained in 2000) and Kelly's trained at OVW. Of course they aren't at a level where we can call them good female wrestlers, but they're well on their way. I know Lena has been extremely busy with ECW (last time we heard from her was about a week and half ago) and that she's been at houseshows, but hasn't yet been in a match. For now, as much as I love Lena, she does fit more into the eye candy role on ECW, though I like her heel character. Finally, on SD we've got Victoria, Michelle, Torrie, Cherry, and Maryse. Out of those five I think all of them are more than or have the potential to be more than eye candy. Victoria is a proven veteran in the ring, Torrie is a good wrestler despite what some people may think, Michelle has improved so much over the past two years, Cherry can also wrestle, though she usually manages, and from the houseshow reports that I have read, Maryse has been doing fantastic in matches (even if she's never featured on TV).

So what we can gather from that is the fact that while many of the divas are used and will be used as eye candy, they have the proficiency to be more than that. In this case the characterization doesn't necessarily state a diva's wrestling capablility.

Flames Out
Dragon

Jillian does a great job with her gimmick, even though it is a comedic role. It's just hard to take her seriously as a wrestler, but after watching some of her stuff it's not that bad. Her ovw stuff when she wasn't doing that stupid insane gimmick was great. She was built up as a blonde bombshell that could wrestle. Jillian has been getting better, as have many of the divas. The Smackdown girls are getting a bit better, but you rarely see a women's match outside of Victoria and Kelly. ECW's are starting to impress me, but how many times can Kelly fight one of those three? That's what I see as the biggest thing holding back the divas is the lack of storylines. It does seem though that Vince has cut back on the lingirie matches and bikini contests, which as sad as this is, bore the hell out of me. Yes the girls look great, but if i want to see that I'll go find it online. I want wrestling, not body contests.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Of course the WWE divas are eye candy only. I'm not saying it should be this way. I'm not saying it has to be this way. I'm just saying that it IS that way.

There was a day when "divas," probably before this term was coined, looked good and could wrestle as well. Nowadays, between diva search contests, Playboy appearances, hiring swimsuit models, etc., it's all about looks and not at all about wrestling.

The only reason divas like Kelly Kelly, Candice, or Maria are showing such improvement in the ring is because of how brutal they were in the first place. They are there because they're hot, and the WWE does not even try to hide this fact. If they did want to disguise this fact, they wouldn't have bra and panty matches, paddle on a pole matches, or pudding matches or whatever. If the "divas" ever want to be taken seriously as wrestlers, this shit has to stop. Which it won't, because these type of matches are there to serve one purpose only: eye candy.

 

[.MCH]

I think the Women's Division is actually starting to get back on it's feet. The matches are getting more solid and easier to watch.

The Women's title scene on RAW has been completely boring, and it's been done on purpose for Candice's return. But we still see actual matches every week.

Some people hit the Women's division hard but I think it's getting there. Alot of the talent is going outta their way to train and learn (Layla going to the School of Hard Knocks and Candice getting her own training on her own time.)

Right now the division leaves alot to be desired for but interest in calling up the developmental divas, we already have Lea- who can really compete with the men-, the division SHOULD get alot better as it has been.

 

[.MCH]

Of course the WWE divas are eye candy only. I'm not saying it should be this way. I'm not saying it has to be this way. I'm just saying that it IS that way.

There was a day when "divas," probably before this term was coined, looked good and could wrestle as well. Nowadays, between diva search contests, Playboy appearances, hiring swimsuit models, etc., it's all about looks and not at all about wrestling.

The only reason divas like Kelly Kelly, Candice, or Maria are showing such improvement in the ring is because of how brutal they were in the first place. They are there because they're hot, and the WWE does not even try to hide this fact. If they did want to disguise this fact, they wouldn't have bra and panty matches, paddle on a pole matches, or pudding matches or whatever. If the "divas" ever want to be taken seriously as wrestlers, this shit has to stop. Which it won't, because these type of matches are there to serve one purpose only: eye candy.

I completely disagree. WWE has been trying to build a serious women's division lately. That's why in Candice vs. Beth, we saw actual matches and nothing T&A. Problem was that WWE was just building the main focus of the division around those two and Candice got injured and WWE panicked, so they then started to make women like Kelly and Layla learn to wrestle.

We've seen really one T&A match this year. Plus the WWE only uses that stuff for secondary matches, etc for fun. The Women's title scene has always been a serious place of competition.

 

[.MCH]

The RAW womens division is eye candy dominant and is booked to have a woman's looks seem more important than her talent. Its pretty obvious when WWE hires one model after the other, solely for good looks. If a woman with exceptional talent is hired, she is either pushed aside or saddled with a deabilitating gimmick right away, so as to not take away from the often unrealistic images that the models propose with their looks. Most women in the WWE womens division have probably spent more time and effort modifying their bodies than they do trying to improve their in ring skills, and yet some of these girls actually wonder why the IWC and most of their peers in the womens wrestling world don't think that highly of them. And others, despite showing some hard working efforts, are trust into a position that they cannot fulfill, because these certain women do not have the respect from their peers just yet. They are still looked upon as just eye candy, promoting good looks over actual skill and hard work.

It's the same anywhere. Go to places like SHIMMER and even some Joshi wrestling. Those women modify their looks. TNA too, almost every diva there has a breast implant.

I think the problem with WWE is that they have so many more women on the roster who are "improving" then women who have established talent. Eventually, the "improving" women will be used more to showcase what they've learned and since they aren't established, the botches and the slow pace of the matches become more noticable.

 

[Bernkastel]

I cannot talk for everybody in the IWC or for the woman's wrestling community has whole but i think that since last year, the WWE has book the divas more has wrestlers then eye candy.

Apparently you misunderstood my entire post. Let me go back and rephrase some of my posts.

The RAW womens division is eye candy dominant and is booked to have a woman's looks seem more important than her talent. Its pretty obvious when WWE hires one model after the other, solely for good looks.

Why would WWE hire wave after wave of untalented models to their roster while only adding 3 or 4 women that could actually wrestle if their intent wasn’t to push the models they hired as mainly eye candy?

If a woman with exceptional talent is hired, she is either pushed aside or saddled with a deabilitating gimmick right away, so as to not take away from the often unrealistic images that the models propose with their looks.

Jillian Halls singing gimmick, Katie Lea’s Incest angle, making Melina out to be some kind of Adulteress, the complete transformation of turning Victoria into a jobber.

And others, despite showing some hard working efforts, are trust into a position that they cannot fulfill, because these certain women do not have the respect from their peers just yet. They are still looked upon as just eye candy, promoting good looks over actual skill and hard work.

Some of the women that were hired as models were just so damn bad in the ring, that even the most basic training is suddenly earning them recognition as “good wrestlers”

I’ll use Candcie as an example because the bulk of this point was directed towards her. I’ll admit, Candice has improved her in ring skills, she is much better than she was when she debuted. However, the fact that Candice still uses sex appeal as a catalyst to get over does not make her a good champion. I would like it a lot better if WWE would allow Candice to drop the persona she has now, and allow her to evolve into something beyond that of just eye candy. You know its bad when WWE uses their current champion in much of the promotional work that fuels the sex appeal for the women’s division. With Candcie constantly putting her “goods” on display, and I’m not talking about bikini contests or gimmick matches. I’m talking about the little things, PPV posters, promos

Here… this is one of Candice’s return promos

[youtube]sWG2BxLUYZg[/youtube]

And it just screams to the casual fan, I’m not eye candy… respect me as a champion and a wrestler

Except for Ashley, i got to say that every other divas have improve a lot and are becomming better wrestlers and that what i like to see.

But like I said, many of those same girls are still marketed for their sex appeal, improvements in the ring mean very little when the wrestler in question is still mainly marketing sex appeal over wrestling skills

I know that some of them are still really green when i come to wrestling but the more they wrestles the more they are going to improve.

If the WWE continues to market theses girls in a way that makes sex appeal seem greater than in ring skills, none of these will really get that respect as an actual wrestler.

Finally, i got to say something about a comment you made about the wwe divas spending more time modifying their bodies then trying to improve their wrestling skill. It's kind of a stupid comment since 90% of all woman wrestlers in the north america has spend time modifying their bodies in some way.

Not really, most of the women in TNA aren’t marketed to have sex appeal outweigh hard work and wrestling skills. And if you notice that the women in TNA that ARE marketed this way aren’t the wrestlers that are pushed. TNA is doing the exact opposite of what WWE is doing. WWE, with their division, is basically telling the casual fan, that sex appeal is greater than wrestling skills, and that to be on top of the division all you really need are looks, you can have wrestling skills, but if you don’t have the looks to go along with them your going to be shit outta luck. On the other hand, while in TNA, they are saying that their champion of the women’s division is going to be the Best wrestler or worker of the bunch, even if their champion is not the best looking of the bunch.

If you want proof just look at all the woman's that wrestles in WEW or TNA. Most of them got work done.

WEW follows the same pattern as TNA, the champion of their promotion is usually the best, or one of the best, wrestlers or workers, on the roster. WEW hires their own models to fill the sex appeal spot, and these models never see time in the ring, only the women that are trained to be wrestlers, wrestle. And the wrestlers in WEW that have modified their bodies and are pushed to have sex appeal out weigh wresting skills aren’t pushed, while the women that have more of a drive to show of their in ring skills rather than their assests are pushed, even if these have had modifications as well.

For example, Tracy Brooks. If you’ve ever seen Tracy on the indy circuit, you’ll know that Tracy doesn’t normally use the sex appeal that she has to get herself over. She is all business, she puts 100% into every match, and even if she uses sex appeal before a match, she doesn’t have resort to showing off more of her assets during the match to keep the audience interested, because she does this with her in ring skills.

Even talented divas like mikie james and victoria got some work done at some point in their career so to say that divas like maria and KElly Kelly spend more time modifying their body instead of trying to improve their wrestling skill is just stupid and false

Didn’t Kelly get breast implants last year, to modify and enhance a body that really didn’t need enhancing. Kelly is just now learning the basics of pro wrestling, but yet WWE still uses her as one of their top promo girls. Maria is getting ready for a big playboy photoshoot, and nothing says “respect me as a wrestler” more than baring it all for millions of people. Maria could have spent the time she did with Playboy improving her in ring work, but instead she’s another diva practicing what the WWE preaches, sex appeal is more important than in ring skill.

Mickie James and Victoria were already eastabished and respect pro wrestlers when they hade their bodies modified, and afterwards, their new modifications did not overshadow their wrestling skills, Mickie and Victoria didn’t let their new modifications effect their performance as professionals.

It's the same anywhere. Go to places like SHIMMER and even some Joshi wrestling. Those women modify their looks. TNA too, almost every diva there has a breast implant.

Yes, except that the women that Modify their bodies in SHIMMER, and especially Japan and Lucha Libre, do not let their new enhancements overshadow their in ring performances

For example, its quite obvious that Rain (peyton banks) has had work done, as even the fans that do find themselves starring at Rain’s chest as she makes her entrance, hardly even notice her cleavage is even there when the bell sounds and they watch Rain beat the shit out of her unlucky opponent. I have watched nearly every match of Rain’s in SHIMMER and a few in some other promotions, and not once have I seen Rain use sex appeal as a catalyst to get herself over with a crowd or to entice them to watch, she does this with her wrestling skills.

I think the problem with WWE is that they have so many more women on the roster who are "improving" then women who have established talent. Eventually, the "improving" women will be used more to showcase what they've learned and since they aren't established, the botches and the slow pace of the matches become more noticable.

That’s because WWE is enforcing the knowledge that sex appeal is more important than wrestling skills. They push the women who look better but have shit in ring skills, while they either hold back most of the talented and trained divas, most of them being moderately good looking, or strap them with some kind of deabilitaing gimmick that makes them seem less than perfect when compared to the often unrealistic characteristics of the model divas

 

[psykohurricane]

Some of the women that were hired as models were just so damn bad in the ring, that even the most basic training is suddenly earning them recognition as “good wrestlers”

I don't necessary agree with that because i'm going to take Kelly Kelly has a exemple, sure she's since starting in the ring, she improve a lot and i'm going to recognize that because i know how hard it is to learn anything new especially a sport like wrestling but does she deserve to be recognize has a good wrestler not yet. On the other hand, we got a ''Model'' like Candice who when she join the WWE 4 years ago, didn't know anything about wrestling, she was hired for sex-appeal and that was it but then she decides to learn wrestling and worked very hard for 2 years to learn how to wrestler and how to build a enjoyable match and for the most part of 2007, she succeded at it, then she deserve to be recognize has a good wrestler.

I’ll use Candcie as an example because the bulk of this point was directed towards her. I’ll admit, Candice has improved her in ring skills, she is much better than she was when she debuted. However, the fact that Candice still uses sex appeal as a catalyst to get over does not make her a good champion. I would like it a lot better if WWE would allow Candice to drop the persona she has now, and allow her to evolve into something beyond that of just eye candy. You know its bad when WWE uses their current champion in much of the promotional work that fuels the sex appeal for the women’s division. With Candcie constantly putting her “goods” on display, and I’m not talking about bikini contests or gimmick matches. I’m talking about the little things, PPV posters, promos

How does she use sex appeal as a catalyst to get over, that you are going to make me understand that part because let face it, except for here entrance, i didn't see anything that would make me want to believe that she used sex-appeal has a catalyst to get over. Every woman wrestler that i saw used sex-appeal in some way shape or form during their entrance to get over so it'S not something new.

If the WWE continues to market theses girls in a way that makes sex appeal seem greater than in ring skills, none of these will really get that respect as an actual wrestler.

Again i don't see it that way, yes the wwe woman'S division has always being an afterthought so even if you these woman's put a five star match, people won'T cared for it, for the last couple of years, except for a couple of exception like one night stand 2007 and Ashley vs melina, the wwe focuses more on the athletic side of the divas instead of sex appeal and the girls that are use for sex-appeal don'T wrestles so that why we are able to see these improvement from divas like maria and Kelly Kelly because that the focuses of the division right now. That'S also the reason why Ashley barely wrestle anymore.

Not really, most of the women in TNA aren’t marketed to have sex appeal outweigh hard work and wrestling skills. And if you notice that the women in TNA that ARE marketed this way aren’t the wrestlers that are pushed. TNA is doing the exact opposite of what WWE is doing. WWE, with their division, is basically telling the casual fan, that sex appeal is greater than wrestling skills, and that to be on top of the division all you really need are looks, you can have wrestling skills, but if you don’t have the looks to go along with them your going to be shit outta luck. On the other hand, while in TNA, they are saying that their champion of the women’s division is going to be the Best wrestler or worker of the bunch, even if their champion is not the best looking of the bunch.

That not exactly true either, it'S true that TNA are doing a better job at promoted the woman'S division that the WWE but again as good as TNA is at promoted the knockout, you still got knockout like ODB, Tracy and peayton banks that are getting a push but are also used sex appeal to get over.

WEW follows the same pattern as TNA, the champion of their promotion is usually the best, or one of the best, wrestlers or workers, on the roster. WEW hires their own models to fill the sex appeal spot, and these models never see time in the ring, only the women that are trained to be wrestlers, wrestle. And the wrestlers in WEW that have modified their bodies and are pushed to have sex appeal out weigh wresting skills aren’t pushed, while the women that have more of a drive to show of their in ring skills rather than their assests are pushed, even if these have had modifications as well.

For example, Tracy Brooks. If you’ve ever seen Tracy on the indy circuit, you’ll know that Tracy doesn’t normally use the sex appeal that she has to get herself over. She is all business, she puts 100% into every match, and even if she uses sex appeal before a match, she doesn’t have resort to showing off more of her assets during the match to keep the audience interested, because she does this with her in ring skills.

It's been a while since i watch WEW but for what i remember from the early days of the promotion, that didn'T always used the best wrestler has their champion. The last time i say a WEW ppv, TAi '' Killer'' Weed was the champion and i can'T say that she was the best wrestler of the promotion. Don't get me wrong, i like Tai has a wrestler but when you got wrestler like Tracy brooks and mercedes Martinez in your promotion, you can say that Tai was better then these girls. Also didn't they had a stripper as WEW champion when they first started.

Didn’t Kelly get breast implants last year, to modify and enhance a body that really didn’t need enhancing. Kelly is just now learning the basics of pro wrestling, but yet WWE still uses her as one of their top promo girls. Maria is getting ready for a big playboy photoshoot, and nothing says “respect me as a wrestler” more than baring it all for millions of people. Maria could have spent the time she did with Playboy improving her in ring work, but instead she’s another diva practicing what the WWE preaches, sex appeal is more important than in ring skill.

Mickie James and Victoria were already eastabished and respect pro wrestlers when they hade their bodies modified, and afterwards, their new modifications did not overshadow their wrestling skills, Mickie and Victoria didn’t let their new modifications effect their performance as professionals.

That's another thing here, Maria is did take alot of time to improve her in ring work and so what if she's in playboy. Personally i don'T cared because it doesn'T make her a bad wrestler because of it. Next Victoria wasn'T a establish wrestler when she got her modification because she already had her breast implant when she started in OVW. Victoria is a product how OVW the wwe developpement system. Has far as mickie is concern, sure now here sex-appeal doesn't overshadow her wrestling skill, but when she started in the WWE, you can't tell me that her sex-appeal wasn't overshadowing her wrestling skill. Just the way she acted and dress was screaming sex-appeal so even great wrestlers like mickie james had to used sex-appeal to get over in the WWE.

Yes, except that the women that Modify their bodies in SHIMMER, and especially Japan and Lucha Libre, do not let their new enhancements overshadow their in ring performances

For example, its quite obvious that Rain (peyton banks) has had work done, as even the fans that do find themselves starring at Rain’s chest as she makes her entrance, hardly even notice her cleavage is even there when the bell sounds and they watch Rain beat the shit out of her unlucky opponent. I have watched nearly every match of Rain’s in SHIMMER and a few in some other promotions, and not once have I seen Rain use sex appeal as a catalyst to get herself over with a crowd or to entice them to watch, she does this with her wrestling skills.

Again i don't know a lot about SHIMMER or any other independant wrestling company from mexico or japan because i not able to see alot of DVD of those company but since started in TNA, Rain as been used as both a sex-object and a wrestler. When she wrestle last sunday against Tracy Brooks two thing came to mind, first was how hot she look in the ring and secondly bad she was as a wrestler. Personally i all i saw was a girl that was really good looking and had average wrestling skills.

That’s because WWE is enforcing the knowledge that sex appeal is more important than wrestling skills. They push the women who look better but have shit in ring skills, while they either hold back most of the talented and trained divas, most of them being moderately good looking, or strap them with some kind of deabilitaing gimmick that makes them seem less than perfect when compared to the often unrealistic characteristics of the model divas

The WWE doesn'T enforced the sex-appeal is more important than wrestling skills because they don't do anything with the woman's division. Most of the time they used the woman's division as a way to feel time between two match so pretty much every divas in the WWE is being hold back. So it doesn't matter if your a talented Divas or not, you are getting the same treatment.

 

[Bernkastel]

On the other hand, we got a ''Model'' like Candice who when she join the WWE 4 years ago, didn't know anything about wrestling, she was hired for sex-appeal and that was it but then she decides to learn wrestling and worked very hard for 2 years to learn how to wrestler and how to build a enjoyable match and for the most part of 2007, she succeded at it, then she deserve to be recognize has a good wrestler.

she built up a match through the interest of sex appeal, half the male audience wasn't interested in Candice's in ring skills, they were hoping for a nip slip or some other wardrobe malfunction. Plus the fact that WWE was still using Candice in many of their promotional work involving sex. The only time I haven't seen Candice used primarily as a sex object was during her feud with Beth, and once Candcie gets the title back, I feel its inevitable at this point, whats from stopping the WWE from continuing to use Candice in their promotional work involving sex appeal?

How does she use sex appeal as a catalyst to get over, that you are going to make me understand that part because let face it, except for here entrance, i didn't see anything that would make me want to believe that she used sex-appeal has a catalyst to get over. Every woman wrestler that i saw used sex-appeal in some way shape or form during their entrance to get over so it'S not something new.

Your right, its not something new, as many of the women in WWE display these "hooks" that are designed to spike the interests of men either mid match or at the end of it. Sex sells itself, but many womens wrestlers in TNA and on the indy circuit don't need to keep reminding their audiences of their assets, like the WWE is so inclined to do with their division.

^ This reinforces the fact that WWE is eye candy dominant, and promoting the overselling of sex appeal of in ring talent

Again i don't see it that way, yes the wwe woman'S division has always being an afterthought so even if you these woman's put a five star match, people won'T cared for it, for the last couple of years, except for a couple of exception like one night stand 2007 and Ashley vs melina, the wwe focuses more on the athletic side of the divas instead of sex appeal and the girls that are use for sex-appeal don'T wrestles so that why we are able to see these improvement from divas like maria and Kelly Kelly because that the focuses of the division right now. That'S also the reason why Ashley barely wrestle anymore.

But yet Maria and Kelly are used mainly as sex objects, they always have been, and a small amount of improvement inside of a ring isn't going to change that fact. Besides, I really don't want to see amateurs like Maria and Kelly on my TV attempting to do something that their not even painted to be able to do correctly.

That not exactly true either, it'S true that TNA are doing a better job at promoted the woman'S division that the WWE but again as good as TNA is at promoted the knockout, you still got knockout like ODB, Tracy and peayton banks that are getting a push but are also used sex appeal to get over.

Like I said sex sells itself, ODB doesn't even make herself out to be pretty, in fact she downgrades her own looks most of the time. I can't remember the last time Tracy utilized sex appeal at all, because I'm sure the men in the audience are only thinking about how hot Tracy is when she's getting slapped around and verbally abused by Robert Roode.

so far Rain has made the Peyton Banks character in TNA out to look like a complete psycho, the only sex appeal that she has are the outfits that she wears, which I doubt most men even pay attention to, when the Peyton Banks character goes on a rampage.

It's been a while since i watch WEW but for what i remember from the early days of the promotion, that didn'T always used the best wrestler has their champion. The last time i say a WEW ppv, TAi '' Killer'' Weed was the champion and i can'T say that she was the best wrestler of the promotion. Don't get me wrong, i like Tai has a wrestler but when you got wrestler like Tracy brooks and mercedes Martinez in your promotion, you can say that Tai was better then these girls. Also didn't they had a stripper as WEW champion when they first started.

I have no idea, If I could find a list of WEW chapions I would comment on it, but from what I've heard in interviews from women like Angel Orsini and April Hunter, WEW is now more geared towards allowing wrestlers to display their talent without them being overshadowed by the models and sex appeal.

Didn't you just write that Tracy Brooks supposedly uses other forms of sex appeal, besides the sex appeal that sells itself to get over?

That's another thing here, Maria is did take alot of time to improve her in ring work and so what if she's in playboy. Personally i don'T cared because it doesn'T make her a bad wrestler because of it.

Maria wasn't even a good wrestler to begin with, LOL!!!

Next Victoria wasn'T a establish wrestler when she got her modification because she already had her breast implant when she started in OVW. Victoria is a product how OVW the wwe developpement system.

Did you ever see Victoria in OVW? She was phenomenal, I highly doubt that she was wowing crowds by wearing bikinis, and using taunts like the Goodnight Kiss, or the Go daddy dance, or using moves like the bronco buster, or the hairmare, or any of those other moves that the WWE Divas do to get a quick reaction form the crowd, overselling sex appeal.

Has far as mickie is concern, sure now here sex-appeal doesn't overshadow her wrestling skill, but when she started in the WWE, you can't tell me that her sex-appeal wasn't overshadowing her wrestling skill. Just the way she acted and dress was screaming sex-appeal so even great wrestlers like mickie james had to used sex-appeal to get over in the WWE.

again sex sells itself, but WWE is over utilizing sex appeal when it comes to the way Mickie is treated now, than compared to when she first debuted.

If you honestly think that the level of fame that Mickie achieved when she first debuted was becuase of sex appeal alone, and not because of, I don't know, her uncanny ability to play her part and gimmick well, thats ignorance talking my friend

(even though their was quite a bit of sex appeal involved, any smart fan would have began realized the Havoc Mickie was creating when they saw just how uncomfortable Trish's character was with the situations)

When she wrestle last sunday against Tracy Brooks two thing came to mind, first was how hot she look in the ring and secondly bad she was as a wrestler.
Personally i all i saw was a girl that was really good looking and had average wrestling skills.

You got all of this from watching one match of Peyton Banks in TNA, while you admit to have never seen Rain in SHIMMER or ROH.

Wow, just wow (because I saw a woman that was passionate about kicking the crap out of Tracy Brooks)

I strongly recommend that you check out Rain's matches in SHIMMER and ROH before you judge her off of one match

I also think its funny that you think Rain is a bad wrestler, but yet you think that Candice is God's gift to womens wrestling

The WWE doesn'T enforced the sex-appeal is more important than wrestling skills because they don't do anything with the woman's division. Most of the time they used the woman's division as a way to feel time between two match so pretty much every divas in the WWE is being hold back. So it doesn't matter if your a talented Divas or not, you are getting the same treatment.

So you honestly believe that girls like Kelly, Maria, and Candice aren't treated better and given more advantages than girls like Victoria, Jillian, and Beth? That is an asinine statement, look at all the extra promotional work that WWE gives to women like Kelly, Candice, and Maria. Look at the storylines that give them guaranteed air time, you can't tell me that WWE doesn't play favorites with their divas, they push the womens that they consider "pretty" and often these women have unrealistic beauty and set the standards of beauty way to high for women like Jillian, Beth, Mickie, and Victoria to compete against, thats why WWE holds them back

going back to the whole point of this thread, WWE is more interested in promoting eye candy than they are wrestling skills, if they weren't Women like Candice would still be in the mid card working her way up, while women like Maria and Kelly would never wrestle, because their wouldn't be a demand for them to.