Big Ben top 10 all-time? No way brother. Off the top of my head...
Brady, Manning, Montana, Aikman, Marino, Elway, Young, Favre, Tarkenton, Unitas, Bradshaw, Staubach, Starr there's 13 better all-time than Ben.
Rank the NFL QB's - Let's Settle It
- Thread starter IrishCanadian25
- Start date
Big Ben top 10 all-time? No way brother. Off the top of my head...
Brady, Manning, Montana, Aikman, Marino, Elway, Young, Favre, Tarkenton, Unitas, Bradshaw, Staubach, Starr there's 13 better all-time than Ben.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
If you want to get technical about it, the first four guys I put have won Super Bowls and Eli isn't in my top ten. 5-10 are basically interchangeable with the exception of a few.
Just made this point in the Cutler thread and thought I'd bring it here:
Combine that with the Super Bowl MVP, and all the records he has set pretty much in the LAST THREE YEARS:
* Second-most completions, season – 448 (2010); Peyton Manning ranks first w/450 (2010)
* Most games with 20+ completions, season - 16 (2010)
* Highest completion percentage, season – 70.62% (2009)
* Third-highest completion percentage, career - 65.22%
* Most passing completions per game, career - 22.8 comp/game
* Most passing attempts per game, career - 34.9 att/game
* Second-highest post-season completion percentage, career - 66.31%; Kurt Warner ranks first at 66.5%.
* Lowest interception percentage, career postseason – 0.70%
* Most completions in a playoff game - 39 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)
* Most pass attempts in a playoff game with zero interceptions - 60 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)
* Most completions in a Super Bowl – 32 (Super Bowl XLIV; tied with Tom Brady)
* Most consecutive seasons with 4000+ passing yards and 30+ Touchdowns - 3 (tied with Dan Marino)
Moreover, I'm pretty sure he's leading the league in most game winning/tieing drives in the last two seasons (if not then he's easily top 3). He's also done all this with ZERO Saints Wide Receivers, Running Backs, and Tight Ends making the Pro Bowl the last 2 seasons (so I don't want to hear any bullshit about how he has better players around him). Plus, last year when he played New England and Indy, he completely outplayed both Brady and Manning.
So again I ask, how is Drew Brees not, RIGHT NOW, the best Quarterback in the league? What puts Brady and Manning above him? Because of the shit they did 4 and more years ago? I just don't understand it.
Combine that with the Super Bowl MVP, and all the records he has set pretty much in the LAST THREE YEARS:
* Second-most completions, season – 448 (2010); Peyton Manning ranks first w/450 (2010)
* Most games with 20+ completions, season - 16 (2010)
* Highest completion percentage, season – 70.62% (2009)
* Third-highest completion percentage, career - 65.22%
* Most passing completions per game, career - 22.8 comp/game
* Most passing attempts per game, career - 34.9 att/game
* Second-highest post-season completion percentage, career - 66.31%; Kurt Warner ranks first at 66.5%.
* Lowest interception percentage, career postseason – 0.70%
* Most completions in a playoff game - 39 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)
* Most pass attempts in a playoff game with zero interceptions - 60 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)
* Most completions in a Super Bowl – 32 (Super Bowl XLIV; tied with Tom Brady)
* Most consecutive seasons with 4000+ passing yards and 30+ Touchdowns - 3 (tied with Dan Marino)
Moreover, I'm pretty sure he's leading the league in most game winning/tieing drives in the last two seasons (if not then he's easily top 3). He's also done all this with ZERO Saints Wide Receivers, Running Backs, and Tight Ends making the Pro Bowl the last 2 seasons (so I don't want to hear any bullshit about how he has better players around him). Plus, last year when he played New England and Indy, he completely outplayed both Brady and Manning.
So again I ask, how is Drew Brees not, RIGHT NOW, the best Quarterback in the league? What puts Brady and Manning above him? Because of the shit they did 4 and more years ago? I just don't understand it.
As a Cowboys fan I believe you ranked Tony Romo far too high on that list, guys a career choke artist that spends more time getting women that are far too hot for someone with his ability to suck on the field. Someone that is as horrible as him shouldn't get women with tits as amazing as Jessica Simpson's.
TheOneBigWill
[This Space for Rent]
Odd, I don't recall Brady kicking GW-FG's in that AFC Championship game, or either of the 2 Superbowl's that came down to the wire.
Look, I'll concede to the fact that Brady is better than Big Ben, but to list a who's who of top caliber QBs, by what criteria are you listing them for? Stats? Championships? Wins/Losses?
Just like I said to X, what is the criteria you're putting this list together as? It's important to know, based on differing results.
I wouldn't put Ben Roethlisberger in a Top 5 list of "all-time QBs" for stats, but he'd be tied for #1, or #2 on a list of "Championship caliber QBs". So, while I'm all for compiling a list of names - I need to know how I'm meant to look at them.
As an "overall" stand-point, which means I'm factoring in the way their team plays around them as well. (accounting for crappy Defenses, Special Teams, and the lack of actual offensive weapons) This would be my Top 5 list.
1. Drew Brees
2. Tom Brady
3. Peyton Manning
4. Philip Rivers
5. Aaron Rodgers
------------------
Gimme something more to work with, and I'll give you a longer list.
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
1. Petyon Manning- I will take the most talented Quarterback, maybe of all-time, over just about anyone..ever.
2. Tom Brady
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Aaron Rodgers
5. Philip Rivers
6. Drew Brees
7. Matt Ryan
8. Mike Vick
9. Joe Flacco
10. Matt Schaub
11. Matt Cassell
12. Eli Manning
13. Mark Sanchez
14. Josh Freeman
15. Jay Cutler
16. Sam Bradford
17. Kyle Orton
18. Tony Romo
19. Carson Palmer
20. Kevin Kolb
21. Matt Stafford- My hometown guy stays down here, until, A. He proves he isn't made of glass, and B. Yes, I know the blame lies with the offensive line. When that group is rebuilt, he will move up. Just hasn't played enough to be ranked higher than these other guys.
2. Tom Brady
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Aaron Rodgers
5. Philip Rivers
6. Drew Brees
7. Matt Ryan
8. Mike Vick
9. Joe Flacco
10. Matt Schaub
11. Matt Cassell
12. Eli Manning
13. Mark Sanchez
14. Josh Freeman
15. Jay Cutler
16. Sam Bradford
17. Kyle Orton
18. Tony Romo
19. Carson Palmer
20. Kevin Kolb
21. Matt Stafford- My hometown guy stays down here, until, A. He proves he isn't made of glass, and B. Yes, I know the blame lies with the offensive line. When that group is rebuilt, he will move up. Just hasn't played enough to be ranked higher than these other guys.
Manning had more yards, the same amount of td's, and less interceptions then Brees did this year. And for this year at least no qb had to deal with more injuries then Manning did on the offensive side of the ball. Brees dealt with injuries too but not as many. Let's also not forget the fact that Brees threw 22 interceptions this year and has thrown 17 or more in 3 of the last 4 seasons. You seem to be basing your ranking entirely on the season Brees had last year which was easily the best of his career. Considering this season, past seasons, and what I expect in the near future, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are 1 and 2 no question. Brees is still a tremendous qb and I have him at 3 but he's just not Manning or Brady.
Smooth Sexual Chocolate
Grapefruits of Wrath
Just wanted to throw this out to everyone who hates on Rivers because of his "lack of clutchness" in the playoffs.
In at least half his playoff losses he drove down the field and put his team in a position to win, you can't fault Rivers because our Kicker can't hit a fucking clutch fieldgoal to save his life.
...and ST: The Jets last two playoff victories over the Chargers where because of missed field goals at the end of the game. You can't fault Rivers for that (Brees for the first one) as well as. 06 Against New England was the same story, Rivers drove down the field at the end of the game and gave his team a chance, the kicker failed, not Rivers.
In at least half his playoff losses he drove down the field and put his team in a position to win, you can't fault Rivers because our Kicker can't hit a fucking clutch fieldgoal to save his life.
...and ST: The Jets last two playoff victories over the Chargers where because of missed field goals at the end of the game. You can't fault Rivers for that (Brees for the first one) as well as. 06 Against New England was the same story, Rivers drove down the field at the end of the game and gave his team a chance, the kicker failed, not Rivers.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
1-Brady
2-P.Manning
3-Brees
4-Rothisberger
5-Rodgers
6-Rivers
7-Vick
8-Flacco
9-Freeman
10-Sanchez
11-Ryan
12-Cassell
13-Hassleback
14-Cutler
15-Schaub
I would like to have Stafford on that list since I think he's capable of being a great QB, but just can't until the guy gets a O-line that knows what the word "blocking" means, and he can shake the injury bug
2-P.Manning
3-Brees
4-Rothisberger
5-Rodgers
6-Rivers
7-Vick
8-Flacco
9-Freeman
10-Sanchez
11-Ryan
12-Cassell
13-Hassleback
14-Cutler
15-Schaub
I would like to have Stafford on that list since I think he's capable of being a great QB, but just can't until the guy gets a O-line that knows what the word "blocking" means, and he can shake the injury bug
Forgive me for going all Stormtrooper on you here, but...
1. A lot of those interceptions came from tipped passes and desperation moments (ala throwing a hail may to end the half, shit like that). Also, there were a LOT of dropped passes and fumbles in the red zone from the Saints in 2010 as well. The fact that Brees was able to still carry the team to a 11-5 record, while practically playing on one leg half of the season, is pretty much remarkable.
2. I'm basing my entire argument on the last 3 years combined. Brees beat Manning in all those stats you named in both 2008 (where he was only a few yards away from breaking Marino's singe season passing record) and 2009. And in 2010 he was close to beating Manning in those categories as well. If he had played the 2nd half of the last game of the season, he just might have.
3. Super Bowl 44 - Drew Brees MVP, Manning pick 6 to lose the game for his team.
Over the last ten years you can say that Manning and Brady have been better than Brees, but for the last 3 years straight, Drew Brees has been the best quarterback in the league, which means RIGHT NOW he is indeed the best. There's no logical argument that can be made against him.
Yeah because Vinatieri just kicked those Field Goals from their own 20 yard line, right? Oh wait...Brady drove them down the field both times in less than 2 minutes so they could kick those field goals. It's what defined him as such a clutch player.
Without Brady the Pats never win those Super Bowls.
Combo of stats, wins/losses and clutchness.
I'm really confused as to how people are putting Brees over Brady. In what way is Brees better than Brady? What can he possibly do that Brady can't do just as well if not better?
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
What's with this consensus that Schaub is a top 10 quarterback. Time and time again, I've seen him come up small when the game is on the line.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
Nothing really, especially when you consider that fact that Brees is only a year younger and Brady has accomplished far more in his career than most QB's could ever dream of, if Brady for some reason slips into a slump over the next few seasons, and Brees continues to play well, and wins a few more SB's then maybe he takes Brady's spot as the top QB but I really don't see that as being likely, Brees is #3 and that not a bad spot at all for him
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
He's not, I have him at 15 and that's being extremely generous
22 interceptions is a lot. A lot of qb's can say a bunch came from tips and drops but there is no way to compare that to other qbs who had a lot less ints with some of there's being from tips as well.
As far as this year and 2008 go Peyton Manning was better then Brees both years. Numbers can be misleading sometimes and in 2008 the yards numbers for Brees were ridiculously high because of the way the Saints offense was that year. They had virtually no running game and were throwing the ball a shit ton every game. Manning still had a better completion % that year and also had 5 less interceptions. You can't always just go by numbers especially with the different types of offenses the teams run. Brees also went 8-8 to Manning's 12-4.
Along with stats and wins I compare qb's like this: If you were to switch them with another teams personnel how would they do in comparison. Brees is a tremendous quarterback but once again NO ONE is Manning or Brady. Not in the past, not in the present, most likely not in the near future.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
I'd also like to add that it's laughable people have Sanchez in the top 10. His regular season numbers are absolutely abysmal and the running game and defense are mostly to thank for these last two playoff trips. In the playoffs he has been good but his performances are being vastly overrated by many.
2009- Good stat line against Cincy but he only threw 15 passes as the Jets gave him the "dump the ball off and don't fuck up strategy." He followed it great but it wasn't some spectacular performance. The next week against San Diego he played absolutely awful and was saved by the defense. In the title game against Indy he played a good first half but a bad second half.
2010- Very average against Indy up until the last drive. He did a good job leading them to the field goal but was helped by some great catches from Braylon and the last drive wouldn't have been necessary had Sanchez done anything the first 58 minutes. Then against New England he played great. The first truly great playoff game he has played. Then in the title game he only shows up for a half once again. Didn't do anything in the first half, played a good second half but it wasn't enough obviously.
Doing a solid, not great, job in the playoffs is what puts him at 16 for me. If it wasn't for his playoff performance the guy wouldn't even be in the top 20.
2009- Good stat line against Cincy but he only threw 15 passes as the Jets gave him the "dump the ball off and don't fuck up strategy." He followed it great but it wasn't some spectacular performance. The next week against San Diego he played absolutely awful and was saved by the defense. In the title game against Indy he played a good first half but a bad second half.
2010- Very average against Indy up until the last drive. He did a good job leading them to the field goal but was helped by some great catches from Braylon and the last drive wouldn't have been necessary had Sanchez done anything the first 58 minutes. Then against New England he played great. The first truly great playoff game he has played. Then in the title game he only shows up for a half once again. Didn't do anything in the first half, played a good second half but it wasn't enough obviously.
Doing a solid, not great, job in the playoffs is what puts him at 16 for me. If it wasn't for his playoff performance the guy wouldn't even be in the top 20.
Smooth Sexual Chocolate
Grapefruits of Wrath
When the game was on the line, when the MOST PRESSURE was put on him, he drove the ball doen the field and put Keading in field goal range, that's all you can ask for. Qb's are rarely perfect, and interceptions happen throughout the course of the game. When the game was on the line, Rivers was sharp and gave his team a chance. If keading didn't miss those two easy field goals than his interceptions would have been irrelevant, not Rivers fault, no matter how you try and slice it.
If the Jets kicker missed that field goal against the Colts there's NO FUCKING WAY you would've blamed Sanchez. Same shit, different game. When the game was on the line, time was running out, and the pressure at its peak, Rivers did what he had to do, and you can't spin that any other way.
If the Jets kicker missed that field goal against the Colts there's NO FUCKING WAY you would've blamed Sanchez. Same shit, different game. When the game was on the line, time was running out, and the pressure at its peak, Rivers did what he had to do, and you can't spin that any other way.
Ty Burna
Getting Noticed By Management
I don't really have a QB to defend.....and I refuse to consider Tarvaris Jackson part of the Vikings anymore since he's a free agent once the Super Bowl is over and I highly doubt we bring him back.
I think I just put myself into depression.
1. Peyton Manning
2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5-tied. Phillip Rivers
5-tied. Mike Vick
7. Eli Manning
8. Matt Ryan
9. Aaron Rodgers
10. Joe Flacco
11. Donnovan McNabb
12. Tony Romo
13. Matt Schaub
14. Mark Sanchez
15. Jason Campbell
I don't get the love of Tom Brady. He's top 5, elite for sure, but he isn't the best. Peyton Manning is the best QB in the NFL, and there is no disputing that for me, coming from a Steeler fan who hates Manning and the Colts.
The dis-love for Rivers is amazing also, he has been consistenly solid since entering the league. Although so has Vick, and those two are pretty interchangable in that spot. I have trouble ranking Brees that high due to his record since he started, but since coming to New Orleans he has been in the elite.
Also, why is nobody mentioning Mcnabb and Romo? They have been consistently solid for the past few years barring 2010, one due to injury and coaching and a changing environment messing with McNabb.
Sanchez is way too high on many lists, he is not Top 10.
Anyone arguing Big Ben is not a gamechanger is stupid. The Steelers may have talent to won without him, but games are prepared for and played differently without him, and when he does play he makes plays that are game-changers. And X, just because Rothelisberger is on my favorite team, doesn't mean I can't defend him when he really is that good. If I was a Vikings, Panthers, or Cardinals fan, I wouldn't be defending the QB's.
2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5-tied. Phillip Rivers
5-tied. Mike Vick
7. Eli Manning
8. Matt Ryan
9. Aaron Rodgers
10. Joe Flacco
11. Donnovan McNabb
12. Tony Romo
13. Matt Schaub
14. Mark Sanchez
15. Jason Campbell
I don't get the love of Tom Brady. He's top 5, elite for sure, but he isn't the best. Peyton Manning is the best QB in the NFL, and there is no disputing that for me, coming from a Steeler fan who hates Manning and the Colts.
The dis-love for Rivers is amazing also, he has been consistenly solid since entering the league. Although so has Vick, and those two are pretty interchangable in that spot. I have trouble ranking Brees that high due to his record since he started, but since coming to New Orleans he has been in the elite.
Also, why is nobody mentioning Mcnabb and Romo? They have been consistently solid for the past few years barring 2010, one due to injury and coaching and a changing environment messing with McNabb.
Sanchez is way too high on many lists, he is not Top 10.
Anyone arguing Big Ben is not a gamechanger is stupid. The Steelers may have talent to won without him, but games are prepared for and played differently without him, and when he does play he makes plays that are game-changers. And X, just because Rothelisberger is on my favorite team, doesn't mean I can't defend him when he really is that good. If I was a Vikings, Panthers, or Cardinals fan, I wouldn't be defending the QB's.
This is 100% true. I happen to not really have a healthy qb to defend at the moment so I like to instead bring other people back to reality. Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, and Rivers are all great qbs but non of them belong in the top 2 as that is reserved for Manning and Brady. Brees is pretty close to a lock at 3 and that is where I have him and the other three are between 4-6. Sanchez belongs no where in the top 10 and it isn't just Stormtrooper putting him there. There are multiple people who obviously are out of their minds with that one.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
If he made a single one of those Field Goals, the entire game is different.
Yeah, actually people would blame Sanchez. And they would be allowed to. He had a terrible 1st half. VERY good 2nd half, but his poor first half would be blamed.
When Rivers was down by 10, he did what the best he could to keep them alive. Too bad for him the game is 60 minutes.
And it's pretty hypocritical to give Rivers this credit for "doing what he had to do when time was runing out", then failing to give credit to Sanchez when he does the exact same fucking thing. If people want to shit on Mark Sanchez for his postseason games, then they MUST shit on Rivers, who has been WORSE.
And Sanchez's game against San Diego is no worse then Ben Roethlisbergers game against the Jets Sunday. He did what he had to do to win, which is what any good QB does.
Smooth Sexual Chocolate
Grapefruits of Wrath
Except Sanchez has been in the league for a whopping 2 years, and has abysmal regular season stats.
Rivers in now way, shape or form is a worse QB than Sanchez, playoff numbers or not, the statement is ridiculous. You can't judge Rivers and Sanchez based on less than 10 playoff games, combined.
Rivers in now way, shape or form is a worse QB than Sanchez, playoff numbers or not, the statement is ridiculous. You can't judge Rivers and Sanchez based on less than 10 playoff games, combined.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
and I have never ONCE argued in that instance.
All I've said is that Sanchez has been better in the Postseason then Rivers.
We aint starting this again, OK SSC. Lets just leave it be. Oh, and it's 13 combined games (7 Rivers, 6 Sanchez).