5th Best Quarterback

[Big Sexy]

Top 5 list threads are done to death so I'm going to put a little twist on this one. I think that anyone who watches the NFL can agree that the top 4 quarterbacks in the league (in no particular order) are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. The big question is: Who rounds out the top 5?.

I'm sure that this question will get a lot of different answers and I'm going to save my choice until a little later in the thread. I'm interested to see who people pick. Do you go with one of the Super Bowl winners like Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, or Joe Flacco? Or how about Matt Ryan who has put up huge numbers and finally got his first playoff win? Maybe Matt Stafford who has put his injury past behind him? Or how about one of the young guns like RGIII, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, or Cam Newton?

Who ya got?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Assuming everyone is healthy and I have one game to win (not building a franchise for the future) I am going with Roethlisberger. His ability to evade a rush and throw a quality pass is without equal. He may not read defenses like Manning and Brady but he makes plays and is great in the clutch. One thing we saw in these playoffs were that today's NFL games are high scoring and far from ever over. I don't like Roethlisberger but he is the fifth best quarterback in football right now.

On the other hand if I had to build a team for the long run around a guy (ignoring Rodgers), I would pick Luck and then Wilson.

 

[Megatron]

Process of elimination can remove over half of the guys you listed. Luck, Newton, Griffin, Kaepernick, Wilson, and Stafford have all played 1 or 2 seasons as QB (well Stafford had injuries but he's had 2 complete seasons since... you know what I mean) and we need more of a track record on them before we can place them in that echelon. Teams can make adjustments on players and we need to see how those guys react to it. So throw them out atm.

Flacco, despite his historic postseason, really doesn't belong near the top 5. Inconsistent in the regular season and benefited hugely from a top defense for most of his seasons (not so much this year due to injuries but once they got healthy they started winning again). Putting him at 5 would be too much living in the now moment. That leaves you with 3 - Ryan, Roethlisberber, and Eli.

I do think Ryan gets a bad rap for his postseason struggles because of the small sample size and with how he played this year. I could see an argument for him, but he has some amazing splits between the dome and away from it. From W-L (while not all entirely on him), QB Rating (8 point difference) and comp % (3 % lower). I'd say he's in that 7-8 range but he's on the up.

So you're stuck between Big Ben and Eli. Both have their faults. Eli can be turnover prone. Roethlisberger can't go a whole season without being banged up (seriously, 1 season out of 9 that he's started all 16 games). Eli has had some great weapons and defensive lines in his deep runs. Big Ben much the same. Big Ben doesn't know when to give up on a play (which has it's pluses but also can lead to some awful decisions). Eli can be maddingly inconsistent. Obviously both have shown they can lead their teams to deep playoff runs, but can also hurt their teams at times. While I might not get a guaranteed 16 games I want Roethlisberger. Just barely.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

It's a toss up between Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Dalton. A lot of people (mostly Giants homers) would put Eli up there along with his brother, but he's a mediocre season player who gets hot when the REST of his team can get the Giants to the postseason. That being said, I love everything about Roethlisberger save for the fact that he puts up some real stinkers on off-days and he's injury-prone. On the other hand, while Ryan also puts up real stinkers on his worst days, he has the further disadvantage of failing to show up during the postseason (I think making it to the NFC championship this year partially put that concern to rest). Finally, there's Dalton, a young QB who makes young QB mistakes but shows the same unflappability that makes Brady such a great QB. I go with Roethlisberger being the fifth best QB right now, but I think Dalton will be the fifth best after a season or two more.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

There is a name that hasn't come up that I think deserves some mention along with Eli, Big Ben, and Ryan. Philip Rivers. This season broke his streak of four straight years with 4,000 plus passing yards, and a lot of that can be blamed on losing some of his bigger weapons. He has a 2-1 touchdown to interception ratio for his career, and has a career QB rating of 94.5. He gets over looked because he doesn't have the post season record of guys like Big Ben or Eli, and the Chargers have been an average team the last couple of years but he definitely deserves mention.

I would pick Roethlisberger though mostly for the reasons that Megatron mentioned. Since 2008 Eli is second in the league in turnovers, behind only Mark Sanchez. Two amazing playoff runs make people forget he has some less than stellar regular season numbers.

 

[LODemolition]

My list right now goes like this:

1. Rodgers
2. Manning
3. Brees
4. Brady
5. Flacco

I think Flacco has earned every right to be called a top 5 quarterback right now, after throwing 11 td's and no picks in the postseason. Next season could be a totally different story with him probably losing Boldin, but for the moment he has earned it.

 

[Papa Pillman]

I think that it has to come down to either Roethlisberger or Eli.

Yes Flacco made a strong case to approach their class this year but until he either comes up with another ring or manages to eliminate the couple games a year he almost single-handedly loses while Big Ben and Eli seriously regress, I don't think it is fair to put him as their equal. I would slot him safely into the seventh spot now though.

As for the Ben/Eli comparison, let's go to the metrics...

In their careers-
QB W-L record: Ben 87-39; Eli 78-57
TD%+: Ben 111; Eli 107
Int%+: Ben 101; Eli 96
AY/A+: Ben 115; Eli 101
Cmp%+: Ben 109; Eli 94
Rate+: Ben 112; Eli 100

The metrics indicate Ben is a much better player, while Eli is numerically an average QB who has a couple of great postseasons runs.

So, the right answer... Ben Roethlisberger.

 

[Big Sexy]

I give it to Big Ben for now but I think that as soon as next year, one of those young quarterbacks can very easily take over that spot. Roethlisberger combines consistency in the regular season and the playoffs. Eli turns the ball over too much, Phillip Rivers also has turnovers and hasn't won anything, Ryan needs a another couple playoff wins, and Flacco needs one regular season where he puts up big numbers. Guys like Kaepernick and Wilson can get deeper in this conversation by avoiding slumps in their second years as starters and making a deep playoff/Super Bowl run.

 

[kapp]

As of right now I would go with Ben Roethlisberger because he has a proven track record. He's been to 3 Super Bowl and won 2 of them. Ben is still at the age that where he can put of big numbers and possibly win more Super Bowl(s), if he remains healthy. He's injury prone and has a some flaws, but he would be a valuable asset to any team. I would give Eli an honorable mention, although I don't believe he's good as Ben. Most of the other are younger and still have to prove themselves and I'm sure their value will rise over time to be mentioned in the top 5 best current QB's. Flacco is good, I just think he still has to prove more as well.

 

[Blaze]

I have Brees, Manning, Brady and Rodgers as my top four. I think the fifth, after a breakout season, would be Matt Ryan. He showed us that he could lead a team, as his Falcons went 13-3 during the regular season. Although he had help from possibly the best wide receiver duo in the league (Roddy White/Julio Jones), he proved he was better than Roethlisberger, Flacco, Eli, or anybody else who was thought as better than him

 

[ChrisHelms]

If everyone is healthy in the league, I'm going with two time Super Bowl winner Eli Manning. Roethlisberger really hasn't done much in big games the past two years, and Eli is the exact opposite of his brother. Little in little games, and huge in big games. Actually judging on that criteria, if I had one to pick one QB in the entire league to win a big game, I'm going with Eli. Yes Brees and Rodgers are great....but Rodgers, sometimes doesn't show up when his team needs him, and I have this overwhelming feeling that Brees is just one bad game away from wanting to leave NO. Brady hasn't won alot of games since 04 but no Superbowls....and don't even get me started on Peyton.

 

[Wastelander]

In my opinion the fifth spot comes down to either Eli or Big Ben. Both men have had the opportunity to play behind valuable defensive lines and both have had their problems among such illustrious careers; many of which have already been touched on. But if I am building a team around one guy it will always be Eli Manning. Does he make some boneheaded mistakes? Certainly. But when you need a win he will almost always come through. Roethlisberger is becoming more and more injury prone as he gets older and makes just about as many mistakes as Eli. I'm not saying he isn't deserving, in fact he and Eli are nearly equal. But how do you argue with a QB who has won both Superbowls he has been in with MVP honors in each? You can't.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I think that by the end of next year we're all going to have Kaepernick in the top 5 somewhere. Despite Cam Newton and RG3 getting all the hype, he's the one who got his tam to a Super Bowl. Sure his team was a lot better than theirs, but I think he's better than either of them anyway.

For now though, have to give it to Big Ben. No reason to say why, you guys have said it already.

 

[ChrisHelms]

Kaepernick is a 2nd year player who has had 10 meaningful games...I think its WAY WAY too early to start calling him a top 5 player, even after next year. Eli and Ben are still light years ahead of him in wins and overall football knowledge.

 

[Davi323]

I would go with Eli. My opinion of Manning as a QB and a leader has improved a lot over the last few years. Both Manning and Roethlisberger have two rings, but Manning beat Tom Brady head to head twice. That impresses me a lot more than wins over Matt Hasselback and a well-past-his-prime Kurt Warner.

Eli beat two heavily favored Patriots teams, including an undefeated team. If I recall correctly, the Steelers were favored in both of Ben's wins. You stop an undefeated team of destiny from achieving it's destiny, you get the benefit of the doubt.

And Phillip Rivers is a shitty stat monkey. He gets good regular season stats, but is worthless in the playoffs. Fuck that guy.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

I agree with several other people's opionions: It comes down to Eli Manning and Roethlisberger. I think I have to give the nod to Eli though, as he won not ony 2 Super Bowls but also he was the MVP in both and they were against Patriot teams that were favored. Big Ben, although he's won 2 super bowls(played in 3 I belive), was never the MVP in either one. Other than that, I think their other stats are pretty comparable and since they play in different conferences, it's tough to compare game by game.


As for the Kaepernick talk, let's just cool our jets on that.... He had one good season and typically gimmicky QBs struggle in their next year after a successful season because defenses study the film and adjust. If he's still playing at a high level or a year or 2 from now, then he MIGHT be in the conversation.

 

[HBsam31]

I think Kaepernick was given way too much way too fast. Granted he had a great season, but that is all it was, one great season. Let's see what he does in the years to come. I noticed some posters that said Eli deserves it over Ben due to the superbowl mvps. The thing about that is the Steelers offense is not set up for Ben Rothlisberger to be winning mvps of anything. They have always been a run first team, and it seems as they are still stubbornly holding on to that. Ben needs to be allowed to be the star every game. To those that said he is injury prone I say go and try to play qb behind the offensive line he has had. Anyone that is not able to get away like Ben does might be dead. If you asked me this question a couple of years ago I might have put Ben at number 3. I think he is the most underrated qb in the league so putting him at number 5 is easy for me. I am from Pittsburgh, but I am very critical of the Steelers and their fans so my opinion is not based off of being some fanboy. I just don't think Rothlisberger gets the credit he deserves.

 

[BooCocky]

The funny thing is Big Ben is better than most people on your list. Brees doesn't win enough, Brady has been an average playoff Quarterback since spygate. Manning is pretty much guaranteed a loss in the playoffs. Since he crumbles like a stale cookie in the cold. Roethlisberger is a winner who has played on average offensive teams. Has 3 super bowl appearances since 2004. Give me a QB who has played with less talent offensively than Big Ben? You can't. Also for the person that said Matt Ryan? He's a choke artist. How many playoff wins does he have?

Rodgers is the best QB in football, not denying that.

Rodgers, Big Ben, P. Manning, Brees, Eli Manning in that order.

 

[Big Sexy]

So you're telling me that Roethlisberger is the number 2 qb in the league and Tom Brady isn't even top 5? Well it's good to know you have zero credibility when it comes to anything football related. You talk about Brady being an "average" playoff qb recently but if he's average then what does that make Roethlisberger? Brady in the last 3 years has a postseason record of 3-3 with 14 tds, 7 interceptions, and a completion % of 63.2. Roethlisberger in the last 3 years has a postseason record of 2-2 (the reason the sample size is less is because the Steelers didn't even make the playoffs this past season) with 5 tds, 4 interceptions, and a completion % of 58. Roethlisberger has not been that great the last few years and blaming the talent around him is a complete cop out. If anything it's his injuries that have brought him down but that's part of the game.

 

[BooCocky]

Brady has been an average playoff QB since spygate. Outside of two runs he has a losing record in the playoffs. Brady is pretty overrated and he has a losing SB record since spygate. I don't see the big deal. Yeah the Steelers didn't make the playoffs but that happens.When you look at overall body of work since 2004 Ben trumps Brady. Ben was having his most successful season last year until injuries came down. How Roethlisberger isn't a top 3 Qb is beyond me. People talk defense but there defense has been average since 2006.

The Pats give Brady the weapons and he still can't win big games. Ben won a super bowl with Randel El as his number two and his only sure weapon has been an extremely overrated Hines Ward. Ben wins with much less offensively.

 

[Big Sexy]

Brady won his 3 Super Bowls with Troy Brown, David Patten, Deion Branch, and David Givens as his leading receivers. I'll take the likes of Hines Ward, Randle El, and Santonio Holmes over that group. And since spygate Brady's numbers in both the regular season and postseason still shit all over Roethlisberger's. In fact, Roethliberger's overall postseason numbers for his career are very average. His postseason numbers include 20 touchdowns to 17 interceptions and a QB rating of 83.7.