It pains me to say this, but you actually make a very very good point. Well done. Other than trying to get Griffin for Love I don't see what else they could do. Everyone in the media is talking about Paul George for Love or Melo for Love, however, I don't see how that would work. You'd definitely get more offense in that deal, but I think defense and rebounding would take a huge dive. The only way that it would work is that the Cavs would be playing small ball all year around because LeBron would have to move to the PF position. Unless they were to put PG or Melo at the 2; but then they'd need another big to fill in for Love. Which would be possible because if you put PG at the 2 that puts Smith back on the bench and then they could trade Korver or Smith if they wanted. I say trade Williams and Korver anyway. They did fuck all in the finals.
NBA Finals 2017
- Thread starter That N Word
- Start date
It pains me to say this, but you actually make a very very good point. Well done. Other than trying to get Griffin for Love I don't see what else they could do. Everyone in the media is talking about Paul George for Love or Melo for Love, however, I don't see how that would work. You'd definitely get more offense in that deal, but I think defense and rebounding would take a huge dive. The only way that it would work is that the Cavs would be playing small ball all year around because LeBron would have to move to the PF position. Unless they were to put PG or Melo at the 2; but then they'd need another big to fill in for Love. Which would be possible because if you put PG at the 2 that puts Smith back on the bench and then they could trade Korver or Smith if they wanted. I say trade Williams and Korver anyway. They did fuck all in the finals.
Ty Burna
Getting Noticed By Management
They don't utilize him worth a damn at all. When he was with the Wolves he was a post up monster who just so happens to be very good behind the arc. He's a glorified spot up shooter on the Cavs. At the same time I've always felt he was one of those guys that made monster stats on a shit team so he always looked better on paper but never someone that can carry a team anywhere.
Can't really blame LeBron when he straight up averaged a triple double for the series on 56% shooting and was the only offense for long stretches of the series. Not to mention maybe resting 1-3 minutes a game. That being said you could tell he was getting gassed, saving his energy for the offensive side instead of hustling back on defense during certain moments. He did what he could but other than Irving finding a hot streak he didn't get all that much help from anyone else.
Welcome to not having an actual coach on the sidelines. LeBron wanted a yes man in Tyronn Lue, and that's exactly what he got. Lue adds absolutely nothing to the Cavs, the only thing he's got is riding LeBron's coattails to the title last year.
Agreed with this. Their offense has been perfectly crafted to fit that team, an offense that was eerily tailor made for Durant as well. He was one of the most prolific scorers in the league playing on a team that works for the open shot instead of force feeding people.
Speaking of force feeding people, why the hell did the Cavs stop feeding JR Smith last night? Dude was 7/8 from 3 point land and was clearly feeling it. Smith is one of the most streakiest shooters I've ever seen in my life but when he's on he can shoot you right back into a game. Really did not understand why they went away from him with Kyrie hurt/playing like shit and James needing some desperate help on offense.
I think there's a distinct possibility Love gets dealt this offseason. Tristan Thompson is another one potentially on the block, that is if they can find a team to take on his albatross of a contract. Moves will definitely be made however to bring in some fresh firepower. Paul George is someone to pay attention to if he's willing to forego his wishes to be in LA to chase a title in Cleveland.
This I kind of disagree with. He gave Cleveland a championship. To him he doesn't owe the city anything anymore. I do think he stays in Cleveland, but I wouldn't be surprised if he made his way out to LA this offseason.
Ty, to your point about the GS offense being eerily tailor made for KD:
I don't think there's an offense in this league that KD couldn't slide into seamlessly. After 2-3 seasons of people thinking Curry was the most unstoppable scorer in the league, KD gave us all a beer to hold as he went ahead and demonstrated what he's capable of when he works for a well-oiled machine. For me, this finals cemented his legacy as one of the all time great scorers in NBA history.
I don't think there's an offense in this league that KD couldn't slide into seamlessly. After 2-3 seasons of people thinking Curry was the most unstoppable scorer in the league, KD gave us all a beer to hold as he went ahead and demonstrated what he's capable of when he works for a well-oiled machine. For me, this finals cemented his legacy as one of the all time great scorers in NBA history.
Ty Burna
Getting Noticed By Management
I hear ya, talent supersedes everything, but I'm just saying if you were going to put KD in any offense I think the Dubs offense was the absolute perfect fit for him. They emphasize creating space better than any other team in the league, basically taking the Suns 7 second or less offense and perfecting it into a real half court offense instead of simply just run and gun. Durant's best ability is the off the dribble shot/finish out of the ISO, but with the Warriors and their offense he was able to find himself far more as a quick spot up shooter. He's a sniper from anywhere on the floor.
Now obviously the talent that's around him definitely helps open things up as you can't double Durant and then let Curry and Klay eviscerate you from down town, but when you compare it to when he played with Westbrook, he should have had a lot more open shots simply on the slash and kick game off Westbrook. Durant certainly had to work much harder via ISO setups while in OKC, and you could tell at the beginning of the year it was taking him a bit to shed that mentality of having to go one on one all the time just to get your shot. Once he fully melded into the ball movement, motion, and spacing offense of the Warriors he really did shine and took it to a whole different level of his game. Even if he couldn't find the space off screens and movement, he could still take it off the ISO and score, the Warriors offense just opened up a whole new avenue of his game that we didn't get to see in OKC.
For sure GS' offense is exactly his speed.
I wonder if the reason he was so much more successful this season than he has been previously is because it never seemed like he had to work that hard to find a shot he was comfortable taking. As you pointed out, defenses couldn't double him up like they did when he was on the Thunder, so he didn't have to waste as much energy trying to make his own shot as he has in the past. Given that a lot of his struggles on the Thunder seemed to come down to nagging injuries and just general fatigue, I reckon that's the case.
I wonder if the reason he was so much more successful this season than he has been previously is because it never seemed like he had to work that hard to find a shot he was comfortable taking. As you pointed out, defenses couldn't double him up like they did when he was on the Thunder, so he didn't have to waste as much energy trying to make his own shot as he has in the past. Given that a lot of his struggles on the Thunder seemed to come down to nagging injuries and just general fatigue, I reckon that's the case.
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The Cavs would be complete morons to make this trade.
The Clippers on the other hand are trying to get you the Cavs GM job.
It'll continue. Everybody was still hating on Lebron 4 years into his Miami stay. Either KD leaves or someone else takes the spotlight from KD.
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
Irving is extremely talented, but Cleveland has one team to beat. With Curry healthy and Durant on the team, Irving's style of play really hurts when he's having a bad, or even average, shooting night. Even he can become less selfish and settle down, I would change my tune.
No, he doesn't owe Cleveland anything. My point is there's nowhere better to end up. Cleveland is a destination at this point. I doubt he thinks he can find a better situation where he has this much control.
That's kind of my point: he's still young, and he's got one of the best coaches in the game to help him learn to play his role in LeBron James.
Irving definitely has the skills to be a devastating PG in this league, he just needs to work on his consistency and knowing what to do when his usual bag of tricks isn't working.
It's certainly better than giving him up for Chris Paul, who probably doesn't have a lot of room left to grow as a player.
I'm with you on this point. I don't think LeBron feels guilted into staying on the Cavs, I just think it's where he wants to be. It is by and large his team at this point, and it likely will remain that way as long as he wears that uniform. He's largely built that team himself, and will continue to have the privilege of hand picking his teammates. Why would he want to give that up to chase a championship with the Clippers, especially when they're really in no better condition to beat the Warriors than the Cavs are.
Plus, barring a meteoric rise from the Celtics, the Cavs are essentially locks for the Eastern Conference Championship for at least another two seasons, possibly longer. If he were to go West, he'd have to contend with the Warriors and the Spurs every year.
Ty Burna
Getting Noticed By Management
I suppose we should have probably looked at his contract and realized he's with the Cavs next year guaranteed but for the 2018-2019 season he has a player option worth $35 mil that he can decline.
And then Wojnarowski goes and reports this: http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/06/14...bron-james-likely-to-join-lakers-or-clippers/
So this is a non issue until next season is over with.
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
The problem I have with Irving is he doesn't make anyone better. He may be young, but he has been with James for three seasons now and he's essentially the same player. He reminds me of a poor man's Russell Westbrook. I don't think he will run LeBron out of there, but I think he constantly tries to prove he's as good as LeBron, and he isn't.
I'm indifferent on the Chris Paul stuff, but if they want to win in the next two or three years, it may not be a bad move.
I disagree. I think he makes plenty of people around him better, just not to the extent that LeBron does. Kyrie has some of the best handles in the league which can cause all sorts of chaos for opposing defenses and allow his teammates to get open. He also averaged 5.8 apg, which puts him just outside the top 20.
He and Westbrook are very different players. Kyrie is not nearly as selfish as Westbrook is, and he is not nearly as desperate a shooter (Kyrie shot at .473 this year compared to Westbrook's .425, a pretty sizable difference considering Westbrook also had 4.3 more FGA per game). Kyrie also turned the bar over FAR less than Westbrook did this year.
Kyrie is a far more disciplined player than Westbrook is, and he's also 4 years younger, so he's likely only going to become more disciplined.
I also don't think there's any evidence he tries to prove that he's good as LeBron, because he's not a fool, and that's a fool's errand. I'm not sure that there's a guy in the league that thinks they're as good as LeBron, and if there is, they're probably not all right in the head.
Look, I like Kyrie. He's an excellent player and if we're being objective he's probably the 2nd best scorer in the league behind only Durant. Also, Kyrie has something that even LeBron doesn't have and that's the closer gene. If you watched the Cavs in the Finals last year and this year you seen LeBron get things going and Kyrie finish it out. Especially last year. Kyrie is also a very good shooter, a hell of a finisher in the lane, and his handles are out of this world. He just might have the best handles in the league right now. Kyrie is definitely a great player, however, he's not a great Point Guard. It's the Point Guard's job to run the offense on the floor, get everyone involved, be an extension of the coach on the floor, and just be a floor general. LeBron is more a PG than Irving is and that's why LeBron can barely be taken out of games because the entire system just collapses when he's not on the floor. If Kyrie were a great PG, that shouldn't happen. Irving, like Westbrook, is more of a 2 guard than a point guard.
CP3, on the other hand, is a great PG. He get's everyone involved and he's a great leader on the floor. That's what the Cavs need. They need another player that would help keep their system together when LeBron's not on the floor and IMO, CP3 could do that. Now, he's not as good a scorer as Kyrie and he doesn't have the handles like Kyrie has, however, he's a better passer, better leader, more effecient, has a higher basketball IQ, and he can score with the best of them. He just looks to pass first. I think that if the Cavs had CP3 then the play would be more evenly spread out amongst the other players on the team instead of 90% of everything falling on LeBron, 7% falling on Irving, and the other 3% falling on everyone else.
I think CP3 would help the Cavs a lot and he has a good 3-5 years left in him to play at or above all star levels.
CP3, on the other hand, is a great PG. He get's everyone involved and he's a great leader on the floor. That's what the Cavs need. They need another player that would help keep their system together when LeBron's not on the floor and IMO, CP3 could do that. Now, he's not as good a scorer as Kyrie and he doesn't have the handles like Kyrie has, however, he's a better passer, better leader, more effecient, has a higher basketball IQ, and he can score with the best of them. He just looks to pass first. I think that if the Cavs had CP3 then the play would be more evenly spread out amongst the other players on the team instead of 90% of everything falling on LeBron, 7% falling on Irving, and the other 3% falling on everyone else.
I think CP3 would help the Cavs a lot and he has a good 3-5 years left in him to play at or above all star levels.
The Cavs might not even make it to the Finals next year.
Boston has the #1 pick in the draft and also, reports are saying that Gordon Hayward is likely going to join Boston this offseason. If they get a good player, which they probably will since they're first, in the draft and Hayward joins; that drastically improves their team. Like a lot. Hayward isn't a superstar, but he is a very good player and an all star. Boston may very well be the best team in the east next season.
Boston has the #1 pick in the draft and also, reports are saying that Gordon Hayward is likely going to join Boston this offseason. If they get a good player, which they probably will since they're first, in the draft and Hayward joins; that drastically improves their team. Like a lot. Hayward isn't a superstar, but he is a very good player and an all star. Boston may very well be the best team in the east next season.
I think the Celtics are still a season or two away from competing with the Cavs, and even then there's a few factors that could make or break them.
The biggest problem the Celtics have is that their only superstar, Isaiah Thomas, is going to be getting hip surgery this off season. I haven't heard anyone say anything about it being career altering, but anytime a guy gets surgery you have to be concerned about if the guy can ever reach full form. Considering the part of IT's game that is really killer is his ability to work around the rim, I'm concerned about him taking hits and re-injuring his hip.
Al Horford also has to keep up his game, and the big men off the bench like Kelly Olynyk, Jonas Jerebko, and Tyler Zeller need to play more consistently. KO is a fan favorite in Boston because of his versatility and ability to go off, but for every big night he puts up he has about 3 forgettable ones.
Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder are two consistent, versatile players that I really like, but I don't know what Jae Crowder's role is going to be on that team if Gordon Heyward comes to town. I'd love to see him come off the bench, but he's a starting quality player and there are plenty of teams around the league that would love a guy that can play the 3/4 spot with the skill set he brings.
On top of all this, Jaylen Brown and Terry Rozier, the Celtics first round picks from the previous two years, do not seem to be developing into the types of players that you can build a team around, at least not any time soon. Jaylen Brown showed promise towards the end of the season, but he's at least another couple of years from developing into anything special.
The Celtics do have the number one overall pick this year, but with Isaiah Thomas in strong command of the starting PG spot and Marcus Smart serving as one of the best second stringers in the league, I don't know how Fultz is going to contribute too much off the bat.
I think Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge are biding their time for another few seasons before they really explode. They have no reason not to succeed after the absolute trade rape they committed against the Nets, but so long as LeBron is leading the Cavs the way he has been the past three seasons, I don't think the Celtics are much of a threat, even with Gordon Heyward.
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On top of that, don't forget that LeBron is likely to demand to be traded to Boston if they look like they have a better chance to make the Finals than the Cavs.
A11oftheLights
Getting Noticed By Management
Nobody gives a shit about Conference Championships. He's going to have to beat the warriors or a team that beat the warriors at some point. There is no point in Lebron getting to the finals and losing, it hurts his argument for being the best player more than what not making it would (see: Michael Jordan).
Has anyone thought how shit the west would be without Lebron? The Western champs would sweep AAAAANNNYYYOOOONNNNE that comes up against until boston comes good. However, boston are ages away if you ask me. Hayward wont change anything. Fultz wont be good enough straight away. By the time Fultz and brown are good enough Horford will be past it. If they want to be contenders next year they need George (but he's hell bent on LA apparently). The Lakers will be the next super team, consisting of Ball Russel George and James. And they're challengers will be the Celtics. It'll be classic basketball
Da Prophet
Mid-Card Championship Winner
So, Paul George likely is going to the Cavs for a year to challenge the Warriors in the NBA Finals. That'll be fun.
Meanwhile, LA drafts Lonzo Ball and he matures for a year while playing NBA level basketball. After the NBA Finals, George and LeBron split from the Cavs and head to the Lakers joining up with the second year Lonzo Ball.
We all good with that?
Meanwhile, LA drafts Lonzo Ball and he matures for a year while playing NBA level basketball. After the NBA Finals, George and LeBron split from the Cavs and head to the Lakers joining up with the second year Lonzo Ball.
We all good with that?
A11oftheLights
Getting Noticed By Management
I am. Then I get sick in the stomach at the idea of the lakers becoming good again
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
I still can't imagine James leaving again. Right or wrong, he would be a villain again. If George comes to Cleveland, why would they go somewhere else? I understand Cleveland isn't L.A., but they would have no better chance of winning in L.A. It just wouldn't make any sense. It's a lateral move and makes James look like shit. I doubt he wants any of that.
Idk about George to Cleveland. Reports this morning are saying that George is probably going to end up in L.A. Especially if they don't have to give up any valuable assets to get him. Which they probably won't because he's already made it clear that he is not resigning with the Pacers after his contract is up. So whatever Indiana could've demanded for him has been greatly reduced.
Also, there's another development in Boston. It appears that the Bulls contacted the 76ers in an effort to trade Butler for their #3 draft pick this year. Well the 76ers declined. Why? I don't know. So now Boston is actively attempting to trade their #1 pick to the 76ers for their #3 pick so that they could then trade that #3 pick to the Bulls for Butler. If they want Butler that bad, I say just go ahead and trade their #1 pick for him. Could you imagine though? The Celtics next year may have a starting lineup of Thomas, Butler, Hayward, Horford, and whoever else. They would definitely be able to compete with the Cavs if all of this were to happen. They're more than likely going to get Hayward, that's all but done and that trade for Jimmy Butler is looking strong too. The Celtics are coming up in the world and fast.
Also, there's another development in Boston. It appears that the Bulls contacted the 76ers in an effort to trade Butler for their #3 draft pick this year. Well the 76ers declined. Why? I don't know. So now Boston is actively attempting to trade their #1 pick to the 76ers for their #3 pick so that they could then trade that #3 pick to the Bulls for Butler. If they want Butler that bad, I say just go ahead and trade their #1 pick for him. Could you imagine though? The Celtics next year may have a starting lineup of Thomas, Butler, Hayward, Horford, and whoever else. They would definitely be able to compete with the Cavs if all of this were to happen. They're more than likely going to get Hayward, that's all but done and that trade for Jimmy Butler is looking strong too. The Celtics are coming up in the world and fast.
A11oftheLights
Getting Noticed By Management
George is going to LA. The hope for Lebron is that they get him to cleveland for the season, win and thats enough to convince him to stay. However if the cavs give up kevin love for george and then fail to win which leads to George to LA, Lebron would be screwed. He wouldnt be beating the warriors and the celtics would very much like their chances. At that point Lebron would be 33 and has already bought the championship he promised. He wouldnt be the great saint in cleveland anymore but i honestly think most people would be like meh whatever
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If the Butler rumor is true then the Celtics will get him and the Lakers pick next year for their #1. A better haul than just Butler for the #1.
