I started this out as a PM to The Brain, after a conversation we had about Goldberg & Austin. However, I think I'll tweak it some and put it here for everyone else to chime in too, and I'll append it as I go.
In a recent thread I was talking about how I watched Goldberg's debut, and I watched each and every episode of Nitro and saw his streak grow and his character evolve etc. I did not mention that I also watched Scott Hall's first appearance in May of '96 and never missed an episode after that until 1999.
I mentioned that I was never a fan of Stone Cold's. I saw him debut as Ringmaster, I saw Austin 3:16 live, as I watched all of what were the core WWF PPV's (Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, SummerSlam, & Survivor Series) but because of the decline in the WWF's overall quality I jumped ship to WCW. Which also means I never watched the evolution of Stone Cold. Nor even much of his early feuds for that matter.
I also remember you [The Brain] saying something fairly comparable but converse. That you'd seen bits and pieces of Goldberg's rise to fame, but not the whole thing, and were a WWF guy.
Over the past several weeks I've been making a point of trying to watch every episode of Raw I could find, starting in 1996, and watch them in order. There's a few things I've noticed.
One was holy crap WWF really was bad back then, but it was kind of like WWE in 2010, you could see things were getting better and better.
Two was that Austin really wasn't utilized too much at all, he was essentially just a mid-carder at best, who would job to Goldust, Marc Merro and anyone else that needed to be put over.
That changed after that In Your House after Summerslam. Apparently this was when Vince Russo was put into play. Everything took on a noticeably Russo aura.
There was the swerve with the Perfect Screwjob, where Perfect was set to return to action for the first time in ages, against HHH, only to get injured during a backstage fight with Hunter. Monsoon pulls the plug on the match and Perfect convinces Marc Merro to stand in for him, Hunter says he's not going to go for that match unless the IC Title is on the line, and Perfect puts it out that Merro accepts to those terms. During the match the ref takes a bump, Perfect goes in with a chair and knocks Merro out and Hunter takes the title and celebrates with Perfect like it was their plan all along. VERY Russo-esque.
Then comes out Bret Hart making his first appearance in the ring since losing to HBK in the Iron Man match. Listening to Bret, you can tell he's speaking from the heart (no pun intended) about everything, and it's really pretty much a shoot. This is a GREAT interview btw, one I suggest anyone interested in the Hitman v HBK feud watch, because it's very telling of where Bret was psychologically before that feud went south, and before the screwjob.
But Stone Cold, this first post is about Stone Cold. During Bret's interview Bret says he's come back to wrestle the BEST wrestler in the WWF today, Steve Austin. That is a HUGE push for Austin, IMO, because of the presence of guys like Pillman, Owen, HBK, & Taker.
The next week October 28 1996, Raw starts off talking about how Austin turned on his best friend Brian Pillman and ruthlessly attacked him during Superstars. Austin is interrupting just about every interview and backstage segment there is. Talking trash about everyone, and in general really upping his intensity 10 fold. Well, backstage chaos is again a very Russo-style thing to do. But it's Stone Cold doing it, and I tell'ya I don't think I've ever seen Steve Austin quite like this. And I think it's the first time I've really looked at the Stone Cold gimmick and thought to myself "holy crap, he IS cool!"
There's a number of things to keep in mind here. This is Vince Russo's doing! He's the one setting loose Stone Cold to cause hell, because up to this point he's been little more than a mid-carder jobbing to main eventers... [ironic sarcasm] like Goldust [/ironic sarcasm]. Bret Hart is the guy that actually put Austin over, and without seeing what comes next, I really wonder if Austin could have gotten as over as he did without Bret's help. I know Bret's heel turn is coming the following wrestlemania as well as Austin's faceturn so all I really know is that whatever match they have at Survivor Series it's not the end of it.
It kind of surprises me that I don't remember more of this feud off the top of my head because I did watch both Survivor Series 96 as well as Royal Rumble 97, but since I don't remember, and I'm watching Raw to experience it first hand. I figure I'll leave it at that, and not try and jog my memory; it'll add to the experience.
Now, this is specifically towards The Brain. I'm beginning to realize that you miss out on a lot by missing several episodes in a row, and pay-per-views and only watching someone's evolution casually. I missed that with Stone Cold and I've never appreciated that gimmick, but as of today I'm realizing that it's very possible that his gimmick really was great, and not just over-rated. My goal is to watch WWF MNR from Jan 1996 - Dec 2000. This is the period of time when I was watching WCW almost exclusively. I slowed down towards late 99 and started watching WWF more, but I still only missed only a show or two in 99. I want to see what I missed first hand, keeping in mind that what I'm starting with starts out terrible, but gets better and better.
Would you (or anyone else who never really watched WCW Monday Nitro during the Monday Night Wars) be interested in watching the history of WCW Monday Nitro? Starting with about 1995 and finishing with 2000-ish as it slides into muck?
I'm looking at it as a history project more than anything. To begin with I wasn't interested at all, but I've always wondered exactly what it was I missed, and I kept thinking one day I would like to give WWF's attitude era an honest chance. I'll be watching the birth of Austin 3:16 and the rise of Stone Cold & The Rock, the formation and reign of DX, and Taker vs Mankind. You, should you agree, will see the arrival of The Outsiders and the formation of the nWo, Raven's Flock, Sting going from being the surfer to the man in the rafters with the baseball bat, and The Streak. Either way you look at it, this was the best time to be watching Pro-Wrestling.
As much as I love the Golden Ages of the WWF, the combination of the Attitude Era in the WWF, and WCW's 84 weeks on top of the wrestling world were way better.
I can say getting to the point of In Your House: Buried Alive has been damned painful at times. Especially when I skip a pay-per-view because I've already seen it, because the main events of Raw were terrible! But now that I'm to the point where WWF is approaching survivor series I'm starting to finally be optimistic about each week actually being better, instead of more of the same mind-numbing crap.
I would really be interested and in fact enjoy reading what a mature attitude era fan thinks of WCW before watching Nitro the way I'm watching Raw, what their opinions are as they progress and how their opinions have changed (if at all) by the time the last Monday Nitro airs.
Do you like Goldberg? What do you think of Sting? What is your personal opinion of the nWo? What did you think about Raven's Flock? How 'bout the Luchadore division? (This was when Mysterio really WAS good IMO)
Then months from now, how have your opinions change?
I'm primarily targeting The Brain, because I think he would get the most out of it, and I kinda think he COULD walk away from this as a fan of Goldberg, and if not, at least a much greater respect for him as a pro-wrestler. But anyone with an open mind and willing to give WCW Monday Nitro an honest shot, that did not the first time around and was firmly in the WWF camp, would be a welcome addition to this discussion.
It would also be pretty cool to read what other Nitro fans think if they were to go through the same process I am, watching Raw and giving the attitude era another shot, starting right from the beginning.
In a recent thread I was talking about how I watched Goldberg's debut, and I watched each and every episode of Nitro and saw his streak grow and his character evolve etc. I did not mention that I also watched Scott Hall's first appearance in May of '96 and never missed an episode after that until 1999.
I mentioned that I was never a fan of Stone Cold's. I saw him debut as Ringmaster, I saw Austin 3:16 live, as I watched all of what were the core WWF PPV's (Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, SummerSlam, & Survivor Series) but because of the decline in the WWF's overall quality I jumped ship to WCW. Which also means I never watched the evolution of Stone Cold. Nor even much of his early feuds for that matter.
I also remember you [The Brain] saying something fairly comparable but converse. That you'd seen bits and pieces of Goldberg's rise to fame, but not the whole thing, and were a WWF guy.
Over the past several weeks I've been making a point of trying to watch every episode of Raw I could find, starting in 1996, and watch them in order. There's a few things I've noticed.
One was holy crap WWF really was bad back then, but it was kind of like WWE in 2010, you could see things were getting better and better.
Two was that Austin really wasn't utilized too much at all, he was essentially just a mid-carder at best, who would job to Goldust, Marc Merro and anyone else that needed to be put over.
That changed after that In Your House after Summerslam. Apparently this was when Vince Russo was put into play. Everything took on a noticeably Russo aura.
There was the swerve with the Perfect Screwjob, where Perfect was set to return to action for the first time in ages, against HHH, only to get injured during a backstage fight with Hunter. Monsoon pulls the plug on the match and Perfect convinces Marc Merro to stand in for him, Hunter says he's not going to go for that match unless the IC Title is on the line, and Perfect puts it out that Merro accepts to those terms. During the match the ref takes a bump, Perfect goes in with a chair and knocks Merro out and Hunter takes the title and celebrates with Perfect like it was their plan all along. VERY Russo-esque.
Then comes out Bret Hart making his first appearance in the ring since losing to HBK in the Iron Man match. Listening to Bret, you can tell he's speaking from the heart (no pun intended) about everything, and it's really pretty much a shoot. This is a GREAT interview btw, one I suggest anyone interested in the Hitman v HBK feud watch, because it's very telling of where Bret was psychologically before that feud went south, and before the screwjob.
But Stone Cold, this first post is about Stone Cold. During Bret's interview Bret says he's come back to wrestle the BEST wrestler in the WWF today, Steve Austin. That is a HUGE push for Austin, IMO, because of the presence of guys like Pillman, Owen, HBK, & Taker.
The next week October 28 1996, Raw starts off talking about how Austin turned on his best friend Brian Pillman and ruthlessly attacked him during Superstars. Austin is interrupting just about every interview and backstage segment there is. Talking trash about everyone, and in general really upping his intensity 10 fold. Well, backstage chaos is again a very Russo-style thing to do. But it's Stone Cold doing it, and I tell'ya I don't think I've ever seen Steve Austin quite like this. And I think it's the first time I've really looked at the Stone Cold gimmick and thought to myself "holy crap, he IS cool!"
There's a number of things to keep in mind here. This is Vince Russo's doing! He's the one setting loose Stone Cold to cause hell, because up to this point he's been little more than a mid-carder jobbing to main eventers... [ironic sarcasm] like Goldust [/ironic sarcasm]. Bret Hart is the guy that actually put Austin over, and without seeing what comes next, I really wonder if Austin could have gotten as over as he did without Bret's help. I know Bret's heel turn is coming the following wrestlemania as well as Austin's faceturn so all I really know is that whatever match they have at Survivor Series it's not the end of it.
It kind of surprises me that I don't remember more of this feud off the top of my head because I did watch both Survivor Series 96 as well as Royal Rumble 97, but since I don't remember, and I'm watching Raw to experience it first hand. I figure I'll leave it at that, and not try and jog my memory; it'll add to the experience.
Now, this is specifically towards The Brain. I'm beginning to realize that you miss out on a lot by missing several episodes in a row, and pay-per-views and only watching someone's evolution casually. I missed that with Stone Cold and I've never appreciated that gimmick, but as of today I'm realizing that it's very possible that his gimmick really was great, and not just over-rated. My goal is to watch WWF MNR from Jan 1996 - Dec 2000. This is the period of time when I was watching WCW almost exclusively. I slowed down towards late 99 and started watching WWF more, but I still only missed only a show or two in 99. I want to see what I missed first hand, keeping in mind that what I'm starting with starts out terrible, but gets better and better.
Would you (or anyone else who never really watched WCW Monday Nitro during the Monday Night Wars) be interested in watching the history of WCW Monday Nitro? Starting with about 1995 and finishing with 2000-ish as it slides into muck?
I'm looking at it as a history project more than anything. To begin with I wasn't interested at all, but I've always wondered exactly what it was I missed, and I kept thinking one day I would like to give WWF's attitude era an honest chance. I'll be watching the birth of Austin 3:16 and the rise of Stone Cold & The Rock, the formation and reign of DX, and Taker vs Mankind. You, should you agree, will see the arrival of The Outsiders and the formation of the nWo, Raven's Flock, Sting going from being the surfer to the man in the rafters with the baseball bat, and The Streak. Either way you look at it, this was the best time to be watching Pro-Wrestling.
As much as I love the Golden Ages of the WWF, the combination of the Attitude Era in the WWF, and WCW's 84 weeks on top of the wrestling world were way better.
I can say getting to the point of In Your House: Buried Alive has been damned painful at times. Especially when I skip a pay-per-view because I've already seen it, because the main events of Raw were terrible! But now that I'm to the point where WWF is approaching survivor series I'm starting to finally be optimistic about each week actually being better, instead of more of the same mind-numbing crap.
I would really be interested and in fact enjoy reading what a mature attitude era fan thinks of WCW before watching Nitro the way I'm watching Raw, what their opinions are as they progress and how their opinions have changed (if at all) by the time the last Monday Nitro airs.
Do you like Goldberg? What do you think of Sting? What is your personal opinion of the nWo? What did you think about Raven's Flock? How 'bout the Luchadore division? (This was when Mysterio really WAS good IMO)
Then months from now, how have your opinions change?
I'm primarily targeting The Brain, because I think he would get the most out of it, and I kinda think he COULD walk away from this as a fan of Goldberg, and if not, at least a much greater respect for him as a pro-wrestler. But anyone with an open mind and willing to give WCW Monday Nitro an honest shot, that did not the first time around and was firmly in the WWF camp, would be a welcome addition to this discussion.
It would also be pretty cool to read what other Nitro fans think if they were to go through the same process I am, watching Raw and giving the attitude era another shot, starting right from the beginning.