My Monday Night Wars "Blog" 1997 - The Other Perspective

RicoLen

Wise Guy
The attitude era began with Shotgun Saturday Night. If there was ANY defining moment of WWE no longer being PG, characters with attitude, and degenerates lauded as heroes, it's the first episode of Shotgun Saturday Night.

Episode #2 of Shotgun Saturday Night featured "Fondle Me Elmo." (see below) Where Sunny had sex with Sesame Street's Elmo. The New Generation Era is OVER at this point.

Monday Night Raw as of Episode 1 of 1997 was pretty good. You still had some dumbasses featured in the main event who shouldn't have even been on TV like Doug Furnas and Phil Lafon. Fake Razor & Diesel are still on TV, and I must say I really could have sworn that Kane had debuted by now. I guess that's just one more thing I remembered wrong.

Sid's getting pushed as a face, yet he powerbombs Jose Lotherio's son through a table just to get at HBK. They've definitely blurred the lines between the straight as an arrow good guy face, and the 'dastardly' bad guy heels.

It looks like this year is going to be miles better than 1996.

[YOUTUBE]THGUiczKQA0[/YOUTUBE]
 
Thursday Raw Thursday (February 13, 1997) and a small handful of debuts (on MNR 2-17-97).

Rocky Maivia winning the intercontinental championship was a disgrace to the intercontinental championship. He was as over with the fans in the same way John Cena is today if you divide by 10. He had minor pops, nothing big, certainly not like other over faces at the time like Sid, Hitman, HBK & Ahmed Johnson, plus during his match with Hunter he was getting very loud "Rocky Sucks!" chants. I'm beginning to understand what The Rock meant at the HoF induction ceremony when he addressed Cena and told him "And BTW, you haven't really made it until you have an entire arena of fans chanting you suck."

At this point in time already, the intercontinental championship title was being used to elevate stars, rather than an award to stars for arriving as a midcard performer. HHH actually had more credibility than The Rock as a first time intercontinental champion.

HBK forfeited the WWE championship, and gave a pretty damned convincing farewell to the fans, saying if he can't come back from this injury and perform at the level he has in the past, then he simply won't come back. He was in tears while he went around ringside and gave high fives to all the fans, and there were many in the crowd (girls) that were crying over his farewell. Funny thing is, I never even knew about this event. Without spoiling anything for myself, I'm guessing that when he returns it'll be when he forms DX, so that's something for me to look forward to.

Chyna made her debut. That's something I had never seen before either. Damned good debut too, coming out of the crowd and grabbing Marlena by the hair and putting her in a chokehold. Sure scared the living hell out of the woman in the crowd that was standing next to Chyna when she walked up and attacked Marlena. That fan was just about sitting in the lap of the guy next to her with a panicked look on her face. In retrospect I would think she'd look at that event as the best markout moment ever for her, cause she looked like she was going to wet her pants.

I did a bit of marking out for Chyna too honestly. I miss the old Chyna, when she was flat chested and looked more like a hermaphrodite than a "Diva". That bearhug she gave Marlena during the Monday Night Raw after the PPV was pretty badass. Chyna was shaking her around like a pitbull with a chewtoy, and then later on in the broadcast they report that Marlena was taken to the hospital and was coughing up blood. Nice touch.

Beth Phoenix and Natalya REALLY should be put over in this same way IMO. Chyna of 1997 would have absolutely buried every single diva of today save for Beth Phoenix & Natalya. Back when I was a horny little teeny bopper at the age of 18 when Chyna first appeared, she grossed the hell out of me, now though, damn she's impressive, I like her.

Matt & Jeff Hardy debuted also on the Monday Night Raw of Feb 17. They were jobbers to the Headbangers, so obviously not very impressive, but it was pretty cool seeing them before they got re-packaged and elevated.

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but Hunter Hearst Helmsley is actually pretty cool. I think I've been a victim of the anti-mark propaganda, in much the same way many people here are with Goldberg. I really bought in to this whole crap about how he was carried from day one, but the fact is there was a few months there while he was feuding with Marc Mero & Goldust that he really was able to get over on his own, and this was certainly before his DX days. I wonder how my opinion about this guy is going to change as time goes on, because I've absolutely hated him with a passion since day one, and yet there were still times when I would grudgingly admit that he had his moments. I think I'm going to be sick with myself if I end up being a fan of his, but at the very least I know I'm going to have to stop hating on him like I have.

Steve Austin's run-ins are starting to get old. I remember this being one of my biggest complaints of all back in the day, was that it seemed like no match in the WWF could end cleanly, everything ended with a run-in of some sort. So far, as it relates to the main event with Bret Hart, that's certainly been the case all year long. They started out trying to have Sid vs Hitman as the opener, then at the top of the 2nd hour of raw, and both times Austin attacked Bret Hart and postponed the match while the officials talked about how they weren't like "other organizations" how, if they billed a match, then they would actually have that match, and they wouldn't mis-advertise to their fans. Obviously a shot at WCW.

Speaking of other organizations, Jerry Lawler had a phone call during one of the matches with Paul Heyman and LOLer was trashing ECW stars like The Blue Meany, & The Sandman. It was the first hint to me that I had seen this episode of Raw when it happened, or at least that segment. Probably was on during a commercial and I flipped over from WCW Monday Nitro. Then it didn't mean much to me as I hadn't heard of ECW before, but now, I'm pretty interested to see where this storyline goes.
 
Monday Night Raw February 24 1997 "ECW invitational"

So it's been like 3 or 4 days since I watched this, it's not an accurate way to do a review, but technically this isn't a review, if you want that, go read Klunderbunker he's better than me at that and has probably done this episode a long time ago anyways. This thread is about my impression of the episodes I've watched after having let it settle a bit.

I don't even remember if Austin was on this episode. But I DO remember Raven. Damn man he looked as awesome as I remembered, it's really a shame he wasn't brought in to the WWE during this period.

The Dudleyz were pretty cool, they looked damned young. bWo was disgusting. lol I get that they were a joke, and it certainly worked as that but, ugh. lol Honestly I was not that impressed with ECW. Raven did nothing but a quick cameo. I would have loved to have seen him wrestle Bret Hart.

I think the main thing I got out of this episode was that Vince was helping put over ECW. Sure Jerry LOLer was a douche bag the whole time, geez he was as bad during this episode as Micheal Cole has been at times since turning heel. But they were in fact putting over the EWC guys, Paul Hymen (that my pet name for the guy) was plugging his (er) PPV, and Vince just acted the profession the whole time. I was really pretty impressed with Vince for doing this episode.

The matches weren't all that spectacular, they had some hardcore matches in there, and some extreme stunts, but really, there was little storytelling, and they were just spotfests. Good ones, but still it didn't make up for what it lacked elsewhere.

I think the best thing of the night, and I think the ECW fans would agree too, was seeing the re-debut of Michael Hegstrand & Joe Laurinaitis, AKA Hawk & Animal, the Legion of Doom. Biggest pop of the night and they got multiple LOD chants throughout their match.

Still I would say that 1997 has been fairly consistently getting better. ECW guys aside there was no one on this episode that I wouldn't even watch to watch on an episode of superstars, that's a huge plus at this point in time. March is coming now, and that means a steady buildup for Wrestlemania.
 
By late 1996/early 1997 you could start to see a shift in direction to what Vince wanted to do since WCW was breathing down his neck at the time. Stone Cold Steve Austin was really starting to gain huge momentum in his Feud with Bret, HBK was getting more of an attitude (on screen),RAW expanded to 2 Hours, Vince bringing in and helping out ECW,etc.

The night after Final Four and the ECW Invasion RAWs are two of my favorites from early on in 1997. I do like Thursday RAW Thursday alot as well before the IYH PPV. LOD coming back early in the year is a good moment and Ken Shamrock making his Debut that same night is cool.

So even though Nitro was winning the Ratings battle at this time RAW was really picking up alot and would get a huge makeover in March.
 
Yeah the 2 hour Raw helps a lot. At this point in 1997 I would say that Raw is about as good as it is now, roughly speaking.

I had forgotten about Ken Shamrock, yeah it was pretty funny watching LOLer mark out over Shamrock saying they were good friends that went way back, etc, and then during his interview Shamrock's like "I don't know you." lol

At this point though, from my memory (which admittedly sucks) Nitro seemed so much better to me. It'll be interesting when I finally go back and watch Nitro again to see if I like it or not. I loved it back then, but who knows. I've noticed that picking out specific memories of what I loved about WCW then it kinda hard. It makes me wonder if it's because there's no great memories to be had compared to the WWF's attitude era. I kind of think that it has more to do with fans being WWF fans these days and talking about how the attitude era was so great, WCW just gets ignored and disrespected.

I was about to watch the next episode of Raw last night but I got distracted, gonna start watching now.
 
Raw is War from Berlin Germany 3-3-97

Holy crap! This was the best episode yet by a landslide. This main event was INCREDIBLE!

Opens with Hitman vs HHH. They put on a pretty good match, but it wasn't spectacular, but it was a great way to open the show.

Next came Rocky Maivia vs Vader for the IC title. About the same in terms of quality as the last match, pretty good, but not spectacular. More Rocky Sucks chants can be heard.

Austin was interviewed from the WWE Studios back in New York. It was OK too.

Next was The Sultan vs Flash Funk. I like Flash Funk, don't like his gimmick but he's pretty impressive in the ring. Sultan is meh. I would say this was the poorest match on the card for the night.

Sid vs Mankind for the world title, this was pretty darned good, save for Austin yapping about diarrhea and Bret's a whiner, yaddayaddaya. I like Austin at times, but sometimes he's just too over the top for me to take seriously.

The Main Event of the night however made the entire show. WWF introduces the European Title and the finals of the tournament is Bulldog vs Owen (the tag team champions at this point in time). This match is IMO even better than the Intercontinental Championship main event of Summerslam '92 featuring Bulldog vs Bret Hart. Bulldog vs Owen Hart was spectacular! For years I've considered Bulldog vs Hitman the best technical wrestling match I've ever seen in the WWE. Maybe I'm just high on it because I just finished watching, and in time I'll cool down on it some, but I kinda doubt it. This match is now IMO the best technical wrestling match I've ever seen in the WWE. How fitting that it's the deciding matchup for the very first European Championship. You have to watch this match, it's just too damned good not to watch. I'm not one of those guys to mark out over a match, but this blew me away within 30 seconds, and continued to do so until the final bell, and even after where Owen & Bulldog celebrated together. Very classy all the way around.
 
Rico I agree that Nitro was pretty solid at this time also and I too enjoy going back also to watch some of the Monday Nitros when WCW was at its peak.

RAW from Berlin is pretty solid and I love the European Title Match with Owen/Bulldog, probably one of the Best RAW Main Events in the Show's History. I think you may like the following week's episode when RAW gets that makeover I mentioned.
 
March 10 1997

Not a very good show at all. I suppose it's to be expected, they furthered some storylines, and that much of it was entertaining, I guess, and it's not like every episode can be better than the last, every now and again there's bound to be a dud. This was one of them.

March 17 1997

Last show before WM13. I'm actually still watching this episode, but I'm not going to finish it tonight because of the NFL & Raw. But I HAD to make note that as Bret Hart came down to the ring for an interview before his cage match with Sid, that someone held up a sign in pink & black that read "Same 5 Moves".

lol At this point I think the whole John Cena "5 moves of doom" thing is just completely debunked. You simply can't get away saying something like that about Bret Hart. He DID have a very well defined in ring repertoire, but he also had matches where he proved he was the excellence of execution, and one of the very best technical wrestlers ever if not THE best. It just completely takes away any credibility people have when they make the same claim on Cena. Cena may not be the greatest technical wrestler ever, I don't think anyone is making that claim, but he's also not a 5 move superman.

I'll finish my thoughts on this episode later, but that sign just made me laugh out loud and I had to comment on it.
 
I'm sorry to interrupt, but did you not like that match with Taz against Mikey Whipwreck, or whoever he faced on that episode of WWF Monday Night Raw, which aired on February 24, 1997? I did not like it too much either, but felt it was somewhat watchable for a match from ECW, which I barely saw anyway. Hunter Hearst Helmsley defending the Intercontinental Championship against Marc Mero was not too bad for this portion of that year.

Also, just because the Legion of Doom got pops did not mean they were too great, especially in this period. I thought they were atrocious in the ring, but everybody here is usually entitled to opinions about wrestlers. I just thought they barely played a big role at this time, and they seemed to have been a bit more hesitant in the ring, compared to how they were in the first year of that decade.
 
They weren't the legion of doom from even 1 year earlier that's for sure. They fought the Steiner Brothers a year earlier and it was a extremely good match (Read my thread HERE for more on that topic), but I think for most fans just seeing the return of a pair of legends like LOD is a major mark out moment.

I'm still working on watching these. I'm into April now, but I'm not finding much worth commenting on, not specifically at least.
 
Well, I have to admit I'm still pretty bored with what I've been seeing lately. There are some good moments in each show, but most of the show is pretty bleh as far as I'm concerned.

I just finished watching the 5-5-97 episode of Raw. The Hart Foundation has been fully fleshed out now. Anvil is no longer "Who" and Bret Hart is in a wheel chair, and Owen just beat Rocky Maivia for the IC title, AND Brian Pillman is back. Things are looking up as far as that's concerned.

I'm bored with the Nation of Domination at this point, and Ahmed Johnson is equally as boring now. Kinda too bad too really, I like his character, I think they've just drawn on this feud far too long without enough swerves to keep it interesting.

Stone Cold is OK at this point. He's supposed to be a face and everyone likes him I guess, but comparing Stone Cold from this point in time to CM Punk of today, and I'm far more interested in CM Punk. That said, there isn't anything to complain about with Austin, he's stopped doing run-ins constantly, but that's not helped since almost every main event now is ended with a run-in of some type. Austin still impresses, but I'm still not buying into the hype. From what I understand it's taken to a new level in '98 so I'm still holding back judgment.

It's no wonder Sid left shortly after mania. He's been written off TV up until this point. Not exactly sure how you go from being in the main event at Wrestlemania, The Royal Rumble, Survivor Series, & Summerslam, and then suddenly there's nothing for creative to give you? Sid has been pretty damned popular too.

HBK is absolutely terrible in his face persona of this era. Every single time he refers to the fans as "his clique" I just cringe. It's just so cheesy it's pathetic. I'm really looking forward to his heel turn and Rick Rude's debut.

Ohwell, despite my complaints this is still miles better than it was in '96. Up until this point, I would confidently say that 2011 has been a much better year than '97 though. I'm pretty sure The Rock is supposed to turn heel soon. Really looking forward to that. On the other end of the spectrum, I'm also pretty sure that Brian Pillman's death is coming up soon too, NOT looking forward to that. Right now he's looking like he'll be the most interesting guy in the WWF in the near future.
 
Well Brian Pillman finally came back to the ring to wrestle Mankind. This was the day after my high school graduation. I remember this night fairly well, as this was yet another night where I grew in my respect for Mankind. Jimmy (Ross) as he was called by Mankind got the mandible claw after insinuating that Mankind was responsible for his own tormented past as a child and how he got no respect in the various wrestling organizations around the world.

Sid, I believe, has wrestled his last match tonight against Owen Hart, which he won, and the fans loved him "Sid, 'nuff said" and "Sid is God" signs could be seen in the crowd during that match.

Farooq fired everyone in the Nation of Domination except for D'Lo Brown. I still wish Farooq had've picked up Flash Funk for NoD. Funk was amazing in the ring, his gimmick just sucked.

The 5-12 & 5-19 episodes of Raw were really good. Probably the two best episodes of the year thus far. If you were to chart the quality of MNR, I would say that Raw, by June of 97 is about back up to par with somewhere around mid-93, that's quite a ditch to have dug out from.
 
Summerslam is approaching.

It appears that Ahmed Johnson's popularity is diminishing now. Turning heel will do that I suppose. Then of course he gets injured, that doesn't help either. At this point I guess I understand why he faded into obscurity, this heel turn was very ill-advised, and the injury on top of it is like the nail in the coffin. I've always kind of liked him, but at this point even I don't care anymore. I don't think either is more important than the other, but between the mismanagement of his character and him proving to be injury-prone, there were just too many other guys on the rise at this time for him to matter.

Flash Funk is still highly entertaining in the ring, but with a crap gimmick and no time on the mic. I don't think I've ever seen him with the mic.

LOD is definitely the most over in the WWE right now and has been for months and months. Austin, & HBK get bigger short pops when they first appear, and Hitman is getting more heat, but LOD is getting huge pops as well and by far longer sustained LOUD chants night in night out.

Currently watching July 14's episode and they mentioned breifly that perhaps Brian Pillman might have an ulterior motive in siding with the Hart Foundation. If you were to put a gun to my head I would tell you that Pillman died in July of 97, though I'm not sure. And as always, yes I could look it up and tell you, but I'm trying to avoid spoiling this experience for myself anymore than years of watching wrestling hasn't done for me already. I would love to see Pillman split from the Hart Foundation and go off on his own ala Steve Austin, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't live long enough to do so.

Question to those readers: Do you think Brian Pillman could have had a Stone Cold caliber career had he lived? Or do you think he was the "Marty Jannetty" of the Hollywood Blondes? I think he could have. In many ways I like Brian Pillman a lot more than Stone Cold Steve Austin. Austin's good wrestling days are almost behind him now, with his immanent neck break at summerslam coming up, and I've yet to really see him as being on the same level as Bret & Owen, or Bulldog. Pillman however looks great in the ring, and has just as edgy and awesome a character as Stone Cold. It's apparent to me that Pillman is just being held back (bad term I know, but I don't mean it in a negative manner here) until more story can be told and also for the right time to spring him on the WWF. He's definitely a main-eventer and Austin's equal. It's just a matter of giving one the push to the top, and THEN the other, and Austin is going first. But what do I know.

Mick Foley... I forgot how much I liked this guy back then. Watching Raw last night to see him do John Cena, this is your life certainly helps bring back fond memories of this guy while watching him back in 97. As I said I'm watching the July 14th episode, and this is the one where Dude Love debuts. Mick Foley is such a teddy bear kind of guy. His big, ugly, and tough as hell (seriously Mick Foley is WWE's "Toughest SOB") but so easily likable. He's definitely one of the highlights of watching this era for me.

I'm itching to see the debut of DX, and Rocky Maivia's heel turn. It's driving me nuts that it hasn't happened yet, but from what I remember I think DX forms at Summerslam, and it can't be too much longer before Ahmed Johnson is kicked out of the NOD and replaced by The Rock. Once these two events take place I think I'm going to be flying through these episodes of MNR. They're already fairly good, but as I've said before, I still like the current episodes of MNR (2011) better than what I'm seeing in 1997.

EDIT: Actually I think I'm gonna ask this question in a separate thread.
 
The blurring of the lines for the Montreal Screw Job has begun. 7-21 revolves around a 6-man tag team "Flag match" between Bret, Owen, & Bulldog vs 3 unknown U.S. representatives. First Austin puts in name in the hat, then HBK. HBK also announces that he will be the special guest referee for the WWF Title match between Taker & Hitman. Following the announcement, during a match between "The Patriot" Dale Wilkes & HHH, Hitman comes to ringside with the Hart Foundation and attacks Vince McMahon. This is, unless I've totally spaced, the first time anyone has laid a hand on Vince. For a moment there it almost looked as though Bret spit on Vince too. I've watched it a few times now and I suppose it's possible that Bret was just trying to make Vince flinch, but it looks more like he spat on him.

There's also another thing I've been noticing lately. Bret Hart, in the ring is a consummate professional. As he frequently says, he's one of the only guys to ever have a lasting career in pro-wrestling and never once injured his opponent. In this business that's a very big deal and a very respectable achievement. He's always put on great matches, and shows both his own talent as well as that of his opponents.

Owen on the other hand, while he too is a consummate professional, and does a great job of showing off both his own talent as well as that of his opponents, has flashes of brilliance where he looks vastly superior to Bret in the ring, but unfortunately he also has a large number of "botches". Not really a botch in terms of completely missing a spot, those are exceedingly rare, but there are a number times on the mic where he totally screws up and gets tongue-tied, and in the ring he there are times where after completing a spot he seems to look around like he's trying to remember what comes next. I find it very distracting when he does that because it really ruins the flow of the match.

All in all I'm not sure who I like watching better of the two. Bret doesn't reach the same highs Owen does, but he also doesn't make mistakes like Owen does either. I suppose considering what happens at summerslam, I'd rather watch Bret. Owen vs Austin was shaping up to be one of the better matches I have seen, then oops, Owen breaks Austin's neck and has to finish with a lame rollup by a limp, loopy Austin. It's a shame too, I would have loved to have seen that match play out the way it was supposed to. Even so, I have to give kudos to both Owen and Austin for the part in that match they played after the accident.

The crowd was red hot for the main event, which ended up being Austin, Foley, & Taker vs Bret, Owen, & Bulldog. Team Canada won, and the show was a pretty big success. It was about as good a show as I've seen all year.
 
7-28 is the go home show for Summerslam.

"Shawn refuses to job!"

That is a sign I've seen on two different episodes of Raw now. Same with "Kill the Kliq". HHH is getting mixed reactions. Hunter Hearst Helmsley is supposed to be an englishman aristocrat kind of character, but with the feud going on with Hitman/Canada vs the U.S. McMahon is now feeling the need to specify that HHH is actually from the U.S. Obviously something needs to be done with his gimmick. Wonder what that might be? ;)

"The Patriot" Del Wilkes (I guess I mis-heard the name earlier, I thought they were saying Dale, not Del) came down to his own music to face The Hitman tonight, and I'll be damned if that song isn't a version of Kurt Angle's "You Suck" song. It's got everything except for the pronounced downbeats where the crowd chants "You Suck!" It's an odd 'coincidence' that "your Olympic hero" has a version of the same song as "The Patriot" has. -- I just doubled checked it and sure enough. The song is called "Medal" and was used first by The Patriot, then popularized by Kurt Angle. (I had to go to a youtube video of Kurt Angle's theme song and troll. I said: "DUDE! This is Del Wilkes theme song. Long live The Patriot! Kurt Angle is a theme song thief!" lol I'm sure that won't go over well, but I just felt the need to act like a moron and stir s**t up.)

This summer season of Raw was a season I watched as it aired. It was just after I graduated high school, and I was working as a software tester, and this was the time I really got fully invested in WCW again. I remember watching Mankind change gimmicks to Dude Love however, and I remember seeing the debut of Kane (mention of whom has been suspiciously quiet the last 2 weeks on Raw), I also remember seeing The Rock's heel turn. However I don't remember DX's formation, which is why, going into this little project of mine, I figured that DX formed much earlier in the year.
 
I love the July 21 & 28 editions of RAW from Halifax & Pittsburgh going into Summerslam. The Flag Match is awesome and the Canadian Crowd is just off the charts for that one. The next week before Summerslam is just as good with Bret losing to the Patriot thanks to HBK getting involved and Bret wanting to kill Shawn. 1997 still remains one of my Favorite years in WWF/E History.
 
I never realized that Rocky Maivia turned heel the same night that Rick Rude re-debuted in the WWF. Kane is still being talked about but I'm starting to get impatient. If I didn't know better I'd say Paul Bearer was bluffing.

LOD's popularity is finally starting to wain some. It's amazing how much they were over with the fans though. They were noticably slower than they had been in the past, but all things considered they still looked really good in the ring. Animal still has the best standing dropkick in the WWF. The height he gets and his form are outstanding. I don't think they have the loudest sustained chants anymore however. I would say that goes to "Rocky Sucks!" or "Shawn is gay!"

By now the attitude era is in full swing, no questions asked. Owen hasn't yet started his promos of "Owen 3:16 says I just broke your neck." but it can't be too far off. But DX is together, if not officially, Shawn has turned heel(ish) and is pulling girls out of the audience to make out with in response to the "Shawn is gay" chants... overcompensating much?

Brian Pillman is still hanging around, alive. I had forgotten about his running around in a dress. Anvil said that if anyone lost at summerslam he would shave off his goat, but I haven't even seen him on TV since summerslam.

I would say at this point in time Foley would definitely be my favorite guy, Pillman, then Austin, and then LOD. I find dead on arrival (DOA), & los boricuas rather annoying, and Sable... bleh, she's the perfect model of a fake plastic bimbo, not all attractive to me, certainly not compared to Sunny, but Sunny seems to be ****ing it up lately, instead of the sexy flirt she has been until the last few weeks. The worst "over" guy in the WWF right now is definitely HBK & Taker. Taker trying to connect with his fans and act like a good guy all while having that stupidass annoying tear under his eye... lame. And HBK completely earned his "Shawn is gay" chants. Surprisingly to me however, HHH is pretty kickass. For a guy that I've hating since day 1, I'm amazed at how much I like HHH.

I miss Sid though. I suppose he's gone for good now, I don't remember when it was that he turned up in WCW, but I don't think it was until mid-late 99.

Hitman is taking almost all the time on Raw. It seems as though if you're not involved with the Hart Foundation or Nation of Domination, you're pretty much not on TV.
 
Very interesting thread. It would probably be helpful to you read Bret's biography to have some context of what was going on behind the scenes at the time. I would assume other biographies are informative as well, but the chronology in his book would really mesh well with your project.

Also, do you have any idea of what the dirt sheets were saying at the time? I would imagine that it would be near impossible to find that information, but still, any luck?
 
I've considered checking out some of those biography books, particularly the ones from Mick Foley, but also Bret Hart and Bobby Heenan on a number of occasions. If I ever do get those, I'll be sure to review the books. If not in this thread I'll be sure and toss a link to it in here at the very least.

I didn't really pay attention to Pro-Wrestling Illustrated until about 2001, when WCW went under. I knew that the WWF couldn't be depended on to give news about such a thing objectively and so I started looking elsewhere. Back in the 90's however all I really knew was what me and a few friends of mine that hopped on the attitude era bandwagon talked about.

From what I understand though there are a few guys here at this site that were members of other forums back then and they could probably give some good insight as to what people were saying. I know it wasn't especially good towards the WWF or Steve Austin. Back then people like me were much more prevalent.
 
Brian Pillman's gone. :(

All around this is an exceptional episode of Raw, most all because of the interview with Melanie Pillman.

I'm guessing it's probably against the rules to do this here (what isn't?) but I would like to share the tribute that the WWF aired this Monday Night Raw for Brian Pillman.
[YOUTUBE]JsBqPELyOeM[/YOUTUBE]
It always sucks to see one of these guys go like this. They give their all to the business and to the fans. This is the hardest job anyone can have inside the entertainment industry. No athlete goes through what these men and woman go though, and no entertainer comes close to this kind of punishment, and they do it all for us, the adoring fans.

Anyone who's seen the movie The Wrestler, knows that Brian Pillman's life was an instrumental part of making that movie as was Jake Roberts'. Seeing this episode is tough, and yet, so many other things happened that were very much noteworthy.

Jim Cornette gave a worked shoot (you can check it out here). To me, it's pretty obvious that segments like this went a long ways towards undermining WWF fans ability to proudly say they liked both WWF and WCW. This screams of classic Vince McMahon subversive propaganda. In reality it's just a smear campaign on WCW, and dirty competition. That said, WCW was no better in that department and did just as much to attempt to ruin a fans ability to enjoy both truly separate brands of pro-wrestling.

It makes me thankful that, for whatever reason, back in '98 I was lucky enough to have TNN airing it's shows on eastern time, while I lived in the pacific time zone. This meant I was able to watch both Nitro and Raw, giving me as much as 6 hours of Monday Night Wars. It was a little too much for me to absorb however, after 6 hours of wrestling in one sitting my mind was numb. But I was able to watch both and make up my mind myself... sort of, WCW got the first arguments in and by the time WWF came around as I've already stated my mind was numb from too much wrestling.

HBK and Hitman's feud is heating up quickly. Anything to do with the Hart Foundation is usually the focal point of Raw lately, but tonight that was not the case. This was the first night back for The Anvil, who promised to shave his beard after summerslam if any of his Hart Foundation members lost, Pillman obviously, lost, but Anvil just took a month off apparently rather than shave his beard.

HBK showed the MSG Curtain Call over the titantron, and talked about his friendship with Scott Hall & Kevin Nash (NOT Razor Ramon and Diesel), and also that Vince didn't break up the Kliq as he had thought, the Kliq simply broadened it's horizons. Hitman called them degenerates, but they've yet to be called Degeneration X.

Kane made his debut on Raw right at the same time the Hardyz debut for the first time together, (Jeff has already been on Raw a few times as a jobber, but this is the first time for Matt) and Kane squashes them like the jobbers they are.

Hunter Hearst Helmsley is also for the first time having himself referred to as Triple H, and he was in the main event against Bret Hart. JR, King, and Vince were on commentary and King and JR were talking together about how Bret Hart was taking credit for sending Razor & Diesel 'south' and King tried to get Vince to talk about what he thought about that claim and his reply was along the lines of I have no idea and I don't care, and he tried to sweep it under the rug but Jerry wouldn't let it go, and pressed him to at least acknowledge that WCW existed, and Vince's reply was "of course they exist, mostly because of the World Wrestling Federation." And that was the last of what he would say on the topic, choosing instead to go back to the play by play.

All in all this was a extraordinary night for Monday Night Raw. Definitely a classic from start to finish.
 
I too liked RAW the night after Badd Blood and the Tribute they did for Brian Pillman,its good stuff and very classy. HBK showing the Kilq incident was something and probably not alot of people knew about it at the time im sure. Bret/HHH is a solid Match and HBK sticking the Canadien Flag up his nose was rather funny also. Owen defending the IC Title against Hawk,Bulldog taking on The Rock (still Rocky Maivia at that point),a Lumberjack Match between The Godwins & Headbangers,and the first of Jim Cornette's rants made for an interesting Show.
 
10-13-97

Things have kicked into an even higher gear. Now, it's getting hard for me to pace myself, because Raw is a fun show to watch from beginning to end, with very few down points, but they're breaking some cardinal rules.

Stone Cold Steve Austin's involvement has been very slight, obviously because he was still recovering from his neck injury, but I think it was a pretty good thing really. He's starting to get stale, doing the same thing week in week out, and now because of his injury his storyline has progressed and he's doing something different.

LOD have had a couple of interviews where they talked about their career and accomplishments and how they were in the WWF to prove to themselves that they've still got it, because the WWF has the best competition in the world. They're booked for a match where if they don't win the tag titles they'll retire. LOD is still one of the most over entities in the WWF right now. They've slipped some from this year's summer where they were the MOST over with the crowd, getting the longest, loudest sustained chants, but even still they're right there with Austin, & the Hart Foundation.

Foley is feuding with Kane because Undertaker says he will not, and Taker hasn't been in the ring since bad blood. Mankind vs Kane is actually kind of a dream match for me personally because I have always considered these two the only other superstars worthy of being included in Paul Bearer's stable with The Undertaker. Taker vs Mankind is by far my favorite feud for either one of them, and even though I remember a lot of Kane's buildup and debut and his opening feud with The Undertaker, somehow my old ass forgot about Mankind vs Kane at Survivor Series. I haven't watched SS97 in years and years, and I think it's about time I do, for this match just as much as the MSJ.

Jim Cornette's rants are amazing. I don't remember ever seeing one back in the day, but seeing them now, man they're almost the best part of the show in my opinion. Here are some links to his latest rants (10-13-97 10-20-97 10-27-97) I have never liked Jim Cornette in pro-wrestling. I've always found him incredibly boring or annoying at best. But these rants are spot on, and I've gained a lot more respect for him as a result. The key thing to keep in mind here is that a lot of this is actually kayfabe though otherwise anything said by HBK or Hitman while in the character of their gimmick wouldn't have been discussed.

What's funny about these rants is that they're frequently followed up with an advertisement for the Survivor Series Rewind show, where they're blatantly banking on the star power of the WCW roster, Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Perfect, Piper, Flair, Razor Ramon, & Diesel.

Rick Rude owns. DX is actually really stupid. They're almost funny, but I think unless you're a kid or a teen they're just plain juvenile, and play every joke that could almost get a laugh into the ground to the point where it's boring and repetitive. For example wiping their faces when they're being talked down to by Sgt. Slobber. It was funny at first, but come on, when you're doing it every 2 seconds it's like ok, enough is enough. But Rick Rude. He's another entity all together. DX's insurance policy is badass, especially for a gimp with a broken back. I loved seeing Rude come out behind The Patriot, with his briefcase in one hand, a cup of coffee in the other, take a sip, and then throw it in Patriot's face.

Seems like I'm still a victim of the whole "the older they get, the better they were" syndrome. Rick Rude was the old man of the group, and the way he presented himself made him seem head and shoulders better than either HBK or HHH, at least to me.

Ahmed Johnson is still hanging around. He's a face again, feuding with the Nation of Domination... wow this feud has been going on forever, it's no wonder everyone got bored with Ahmed. He didn't have a shot, how many promo's can you cut against the same opponent and keep the feud feeling fresh. He's endured injury after injury, gotten over with the fans, even at this point he's still pretty well over with the fans, but holy crap guys, why don't you try booking him with someone else for once!?

10-20-97

DX trashed NOD's dressing room and made racist comments on the walls, and placed a Canadian flag in the room nice and neat-like. Micheal Cole broke the news and forgot to mention the flag so Vince had to bring attention to it. Then NOD calls out the Hart Foundation and then started a fight with them, and DX joined in and squashed the Harts.

I'm starting to feel bad for the Hart Foundation. They a heel organization, hated by the crowds in the US getting treated like crap, getting dumped on by other heel factions, and everything is getting taken away from them.

J E double F J A double R E double T has returned from the WCW. He talks about Eric Bischoff and Monday Nitro, and talks trash about WCW, then he turns on Vince as well. Then he talks about Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels. Jarrett was getting a pretty decent reception, insomuch that people were listening, until he started in on Steve Austin, and talked about how he shaved his head and made a habit of saying the word "ass" just to get a reaction. At this point the fans turned on Jarrett and booed him pretty loudly.

I never saw this promo the first time around, even though I did see this episode of Raw, at least in bits and pieces. I watched this segment on youtube a few months back though, and it was instrumental in me wanting to go back and watch Monday Night Raw during the Monday Night Wars.

Tonight is the debut of The New Age Outlaws. Smoking Gunn Billy Gunn, former Rockabilly, and now again a new gimmick, Badass Billy Gunn. The Road Dog Jesse James gave his first "oh you didn't know?" entrances. It was pretty bad, really. "and if you didn't know that then you better page somebody." Really? Bleh. It gets better later on I believe. I was never the biggest fan of the new age outlaws, but it seemed like their entrance got to be pretty good, at least when they were in DX. I'm really pretty surprised to find out that they didn't debut in DX. I have no recollection at all of them not in DX.

10-27-97

The Nation of Domination starts off the night, and Rocky Maivia got on the mic, and immediately got massive heat from the fans and chants of "Rocky Sucks!"

Mankind's promo against "Uncle Paul" & Kane was badass. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Mankind is the best character in the WWF right now. It's no wonder that WCW lost the ratings war as a result of spoiling Mankind winning the WWF title. I loved the WCW, but if I knew Mankind then like I do now, I'd've flipped the channel too. Seeing Mankind snap was great, every time. He was a good guy, abused and mistreated, and when he didn't get what he wanted, like in this case where Sgt. Slaughter tried to deny him a match against Kane at Survivor Series, it was pretty cool seeing him give Slaughter the mandible claw, and then shrinking into the corner of the ring hugging himself and ripping his own hair out.

The Hitman tapped out to Ken Shamrock's ankle lock during his title match. Luckily the ref was out and didn't see it, as always the match ends in a run-in, this time from HBK. Surprise, Surprise.

During the following match, between the new age outlaws and the new blackjacks Vince wished well the wife of Gorilla Monsoon who was admitted to the hospital. They didn't say exactly why, but just mentioned that Monsoon was "very very ill". It kind of came out the middle of nowhere, this mention of Bob Marella and I know he didn't die until late in '99, but I guess this explains why Sgt. Slaughter was put in the position he was, because up until this summer Monsoon had been the guy in this role on screen, if with a different title.

This episode was actually kind of a let down for me. Not a big deal though, not every episode is going to be better than the last, and this wasn't a bad episode by any means. Next week is the go-home show for the Survivor Series.
 
Are you watching any of the PPVs in between watching the RAWs? The October ones are pretty good with my Favorite one being the October 20th one. Jeff Jarrett comes back from WCW,HBK/Owen in a Title vs Title bout,Bret/Faarooq,Kane destroying Dude Love with 2 Chokeslams on the Ramp,and DX trashing The Nation's lockeroom as well.

I know Im jumping ahead but another episode of RAW I liked from 1997 is the last one in December where Owen got a Title shot against Shawn Micheals. Really good Match and it showed the chemistry those two had together. Plus Austin putting Goldust into the crapper is a funny moment.
 
Yeah I'm watching them, some of them at least. I'm just not discussing them very much because they've never really interested me a whole hell of a lot. I never had a cable box growing up, so I never had the ability to see a Pay-Per-View. I've only once been to a house show, and never a taping of Raw or anything of the sort. For me, pro-wrestling has always been what I can see from basic cable on USA or TNN/Spike. Even these days, I don't watch PPV's because they cost so damned much, and I'm not willing to give it a chance when I'm not sure how it's going to play on my PC through my internet connection. I don't want a crappy, laggy, pixelated viewing for $50 or whatever, it's just not worth it to me. Point being my interest never has and still is not about the PPVs, so I'm just discussing what has always been the most important part of wrestling for me.

I'm actually in early December now, I'm falling behind on my discussion, and there's a lot to talk about from the Monday Night Wars perspective and the overall climate in the WWF. I'll probably write up some more pretty soon here. Certainly before I move into 1998.
 
Well the PPVs are a pretty important part of Wrestling to me as well. I think you should give it a chance as there so many memorable PPVs over the years from the WWF/E.

That being said good job on this and looking to more of your 1997 thoughts.
 

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