Calgary Region, Detroit Subregion: Second Round: (8) Randy Orton vs. (9) CM Punk

Discussion in 'Calgary Region' started by klunderbunker, Mar 4, 2011.

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Who Wins This Match

  1. Randy Orton

  2. CM Punk

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    The following contest is a second round match in the Calgary Region.

    This match takes place in the Palace Of Auburn Hills in Detroit, Michigan.

    [​IMG]

    #8 Randy Orton

    [​IMG]

    Vs.

    #9 CM Punk

    [​IMG]

    This contest is one fall with a 20 minute time limit. The match will take place in a 16 x 16 ring with no ramp leading to it. Any traditional managers for either competitor will be allowed at ringside.

    As for voting, vote for who you think would win this match based on the criteria you choose. Some suggestions would be (not limited to): in ring ability, overall skill, their level of influence at the highest point in their career, ability to connect with the crowd, experience in major matches or simply personal preference etc.

    The most votes in the voting period wins and in the case of a tie, the most written votes wins. There is one written vote per user, meaning if a poster make ten posts saying Bret should win that will count as a single vote. In the event of a second tie, both men are ELIMINATED, no questions asked. Only winners advance.

    Voting is open for four days and all posts must be non-spam.​
     
    #1
  2. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Ooooooooooooooooooooh... good match.

    I'm sure we could wait until Wrestlemania but what's the point?

    CM Punk wins here, hands down. Punk has done everything Orton has in the WWE, plus a TON more in the indy circuit. Orton's only been in the WWE while Punk has been in numerous promotions around the world, successful in all of them.

    No need for a long, drawn out speech. Punk wins this.
     
    #2
  3. Big Nick Dudley

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    Wow, this match is a cold, heartless bitch. I'm an admitted mark for both Punk and Randall, so one of them making such an early exit is disappointing.

    With that being said, I'm leaning toward Randall.

    During his WWE career, Orton has captured 7 World titles. He also won the 2009 Royal Rumble, followed by wrestling in the main event at WrestleMania 25. Orton has pinned the absolute best of his era, including Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Mick Foley, Chris Jericho, HHH, John Cena, Batista, and Kurt Angle. CM Punk has had one hell of a run with the WWE, but it doesn't measure up to what Orton has accomplished.

    However, deciding who would go over in this type of match isn't so cut and dry. Punk is undeniably one of the better in-ring performers WWE has at its disposal, but Orton is no slouch either.

    These men are equally vicious, but I think Orton is a bit more aggressive. Randall is also bigger, stronger and a better brawler. Although, Punk has a much more innovative style of offense, he's probably a little faster, and is superior when it comes to improvisation during a match.

    Calling this match in a kayfabe-sense isn't easy, but again, I'm going with Randy Orton. He's beaten bigger names over a longer period of time, and he's currently the 2nd or 3rd biggest superstar the WWE has.

    GTS reversed into a thunderous RKO for the 1-2-3.
     
    #3
  4. The Best

    The Best The Best

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    If this match was posted at about this time April 4th I think that all of us would have an easier time voting for this.

    Now as for this, next to the Sting; Stan Hansen match I see this as the best match of round 2 so far in this tournament.

    As for kayfabe wise here's how it all plays out. Orton is a seven time world champion, the 2009 royal rumble match winner, and the 17th triple crown champion the wwe has seen. As for CM Punk he is a 5 time world champion(counting wwecw and ROH), Mr. Money in the Bank twice, the 19th wwe triple crown champion, and has won a ton of independent titles.

    Non kayfabe, Orton seems like alot more of a brawler, and more agressive(as Nick B. said), and would probably gain an advantage on Punk.

    Overall I see Orton winning in a very long, exciting, pay-per view main event type match with an "out of no where" RKO, but if Punk wins this i won't be angereed, or surprised.

    Winner: Randy Orton at around 17:30 via RKO. I could go along with Punk winning too though.
     
    #4
  5. Teddy Irving

    Teddy Irving Pre-Show Stalwart

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    God it is a shame that one of these two has to go out so early in the tournament.
    But for me its going to have to be Punk that continues on the road to victory in this tournament.
    Yes Randy has had a great run with the wwe, but punk is starting on his way to the career he deserves in the biggest wrestling company there is. Punk is (in my opinion) the better in ring competitor and has a more diverse move range. He can finish a match with the GTS or the anaconda vice, and if they weren't enough he could bring back some of his old indy moves. Pepsi Plunge anyone.
    Punk is great at mind games and although Randy is a strong competitor and no sham at getting into peoples heads he does hate people messing with him. He would freak out and make a mistake that punk would be all to happy to capitalize on.
    Also if you want to take into account outside interferance Nexus would do more damage than legacy. Punk has all the tools to take it all the way in this tournament.
    Oh and lets not forget the one thing Punk has the none of these other competitors have.... The power of straight edge. Which makes him better than Orton and better than you!

    Vote Punk
     
    #5
  6. PsychoBlack

    PsychoBlack Damn it feels good to be a Taylor!!

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    This is the type of match that steals the show. I am torn between these two right now as both of them are two of my favorites. I want to see the arguments that you guys post for this one to see if i am convinced that one is even the slightest bit superior over the other.
     
    #6
  7. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    A rarity folks. A match that's going to happen at a PPV is actually a matchup in this tourney. I'll give the match to Punk because I feel that as good as Orton can be... he lets his madness get the best of him and that can cause him to make mistakes. Punk is cold, calculated, and has a moveset that simply confuses most opponents.

    Punk wins in my book... but I won't be upset if Orton wins.
     
    #7
  8. The Bearded One

    The Bearded One Love is not admissable evidence.

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    I'm going with Punk in this one, but it was a tough decision. My choice came down to this: They are both equals in the ring, in my opinion at least, but Punk is able to play mind games like no other. While Orton may be "crazy" and attack at random, Punk is more calculating and has the best chance out of anyone to get into the Viper's head. Punk would win an exciting match at about the 17 minute mark with the GTS.
     
    #8
  9. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

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    Randy Orton has never entertained me. Not once, not ever. As a heel I always found him dull, uninteresting, and I never really found myself hating him as much as I felt annoyed by him. Ironically, it wasn't until he turned face that I started hating him, as he was basically getting cheered for doing the exact same stuff he did as a heel, except now instead of only RKOing faces, he was RKOing everybody.

    Conversely, CM Punk has always entertained me. There were some points in his WWE career that I wasn't really high on him (like the SES, the beginning of New Nexus), but he still found ways to appeal to me. I still maintain his promo skills are nothing to write home about, but he can make some good speeches when he needs to, he knows how to work his character perhaps better than anyone in the WWE right now, and he is a fantastic in ring talent.

    That alone is reason enough for me to vote for Punk over Orton, but I have more to say.

    Sure, Orton has more kayfabe success than Punk... but he's also been around a lot longer and has the benefit of being a third generation superstar, and we've seen the WWE push a lot of guys who aren't worth a shit simply because they have a legacy. Hell, Ted DiBiase is one of the most worthless wrestlers on the WWE roster but he still has a job simply because of who his daddy is. I AM NOT SAYING THAT RANDY ORTON IS ONLY SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE OF WHO HIS FATHER IS, I AM SIMPLY STATING THAT IT WAS A BIG HELP.

    CM Punk, on the other hand, broke into the spotlight through dedication and hard work. He put on outstanding matches on the indy circuits until he got recognized by the big boys, and then he had to claw his way into the main event in the WWE. Remember, when Punk came on board he was stuck on the lowly ECW, and while ECW had its fair share of good wrestlers at the time, Punk really had an uphill battle when it came to getting noticed. Yet, he became one of the most popular wrestlers on ECW, if not in all of WWE. Before the DX vs. Rated-RKO Survivor Series match, the crowd wasn't chanting TRIP-LE-H!, they weren't chanting H-B-K!, they were chanting C-M-PUNK!

    Nope, not done yet. Let's get down to the match itself.

    When I think of these matches, I like to take both men at their best. You may argue that CM Punk is at his best right now. He has never been more over, he has never been more relevant. However, I think CM Punk was actually at his most powerful during his days in ROH where he was one of the toughest competitors. This is a man who took Samoa Joe to a 60 minute draw... TWICE. To withstand the wrath of Joe for two hours without being defeated is an accomplishment that no other man can boast. In addition to those hour long affairs, CM Punk also wrestled an hour and half with Chris Hero in a two out of three falls match, and had successful title defenses against names like Colt Cabana, Eddie Guerrero, AJ Styles, and Austin Aries. True, none of those names match the likes of Triple H, but they were all booked very strongly in their respective companies.

    Orton, on the other hand, is definitely at his prime now. He is booked as being extremely difficult to beat (but not impossible), and extremely hard to out-think. His RKO is as devastating as ever, and he has brought back the punt, a move that will not only knock your lights out, but it will sideline you for an undetermined amount of time.

    That said, I don't think Orton has what it takes to take down a prime CM Punk. A single RKO won't be enough to take down a man who lasted 93 minutes in a two out of three falls match or went 60 minutes with Samoa Joe twice. Orton will have to do some serious damage to Punk's noggin before the RKO is effective enough to keep Punk down for the three count. You may think the punt would be more effective, but in order to do that Orton usually has to have already beaten his opponent, or at least have his opponent totally unaware that it's coming. On the other side of things, we have seen Randy Orton fall victim to the GTS after Punk hit him with it and Miz capitalized by covering him up at the Royal Rumble. Yes, it was after a full match of The Miz's offense, but do you really think Miz's offense is more effective than CM Punk's? No, it's not. CM Punk can and will weaken Randy Orton until he's ready for the GTS or the Pepsi Plunge, and after Punk hits one of those moves, it's game over for Randy Orton.

    This will be a hard fought contest, but the better man wins in the end, and that man is CM Punk.
     
    #9
  10. Alex

    Alex King Of The Wasteland

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    Punk is calm and collected and would use that to his advantage to counter Orton's pyschoticness
     
    #10
  11. Big Nick Dudley

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    We've also seen plenty of them fall flat, or have little success after lift-off. You cannot completely stink, and stay employed, no matter what your last name happens to be. You cannot become a World champion, main-event wrestler based on your name alone. Orton has risen far above his multi-generational name, and you know it. He could have ended up like Reid Flair, but fortunately, he has talent.

    You're entitled to your personal opinion, but note that's all it is. An opinion. I don't think Ted is anything special, but he surely isn't useless. He wrestles on the biggest wrestling program in the United States almost every Monday night. That means something, like it or not.

    Correct. And this means he should go over Orton..why?

    No, Orton cannot brag about lasting 60 minutes with Samoa Joe. However, he can boast about beating HHH in a 3 Stages of Hell Match (June, 2009), something not even Steve Austin could do. I think Orton wins this round.

    Which Punk lost. Orton wrestled John Cena in a 60 Minute Iron Man match, and lost. Difference? It was against the unstoppable, household name John Cena.

    Orton has pinned Shawn Michaels (a few times, actually).

    The Undertaker (granted, both men have beaten Taker).

    Kurt Angle, Mick Foley, and HHH. What do these three legends have in common? None of them have lost to CM Punk, and all of them have been pinned by Randy Orton. Orton has beaten bigger names, more often.

    Should have stopped where the Bold ends ;)

    Now you're gettin' it...

    So the WWE PPV's Punk headlined were past his prime? His prime was while he wrestled Indy leagues? Come on, JGlass...seriously?

    And what leads you to believe Orton cannot inflict enough damage? To say Orton cannot is just ridiculous. If he can do so against The Undertaker, John Cena and HHH, he can sure as hell do it against CM Punk.

    No, not really. The RKO gets the job done. It has already helped him win 7 World titles, so The Punt wouldn't even be necessary.

    You said it yourself; after an entire match with the now WWE champion.

    Oh, and by the way; When exactly has CM Punk pinned Orton in a one-on-one match. Never. The answer is never. On the other hand, Orton has pinned CM Punk in one-on-one competition (November, 2008).

    :lmao:

    Orton has kicked out of John Cena's Attitude Adjustment. Something tells me he can handle a GTS.

    Not according to their past, where Orton has actually pinned CM Punk.

    *​

    So is Orton. Seeing you put almost no effort into your post, I won't put any into this response.

    Orton has beaten Punk. Pinned him. He's beaten bigger names, more often.

    Put your fanboy hatred aside. Orton should go over here.
     
    #11
  12. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

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    No argument here. While I don't enjoy Orton, it's quite obvious others do.

    Ted's useless.

    I find hard work and dedication to be a pretty honorable quality. CM Punk has never taken his spot for granted, it's not like he blatantly broke the rules by smoking weed in the arena when he was specifically told not to.

    How did Orton manage to pull that off again? OH YEAH! His two little goons helped him. They aren't going to be able to get involved in this match, sorry Nicky.


    I was pointing to CM Punk's endurance and ability to take a beating. A loss is a loss, so you can't really say Orton's loss to Cena was any more or less impressive than Punk's loss to Hero.

    At a time that Shawn wasn't billed as being too strong, but that's okay, it's still an accomplishment. So is beating Jeff Hardy at his absolute best.

    Exactly.

    And he's beaten nearly all of them dirty.

    But they were billed as the best guys their promotions had to offer. It's the Indy equivalent of beating Triple H, if you will.

    See, you can't accuse me of being totally biased.

    Prime is a tricky word to pin down the use of in professional wrestling. Is it when he was at his strongest in matters of booking? Is it when he drew the most money? Is when it was the most over with the crowd? I was simply saying that when he wrestled in ROH he was booked as a guy who could fight a monster for an hour or take out the top guys in the company.

    He won the match with Taker because of a distraction, and I don't think Randy Orton has ever beaten John Cena cleanly all by himself. I could definitely be wrong, so job my memory if you can.

    CM Punk, on the other hand, won his matches cleanly, based on superior skill. Clean wins >>>>>> dirty wins.

    Dude, most of Orton's title reigns are tainted by heel tactics. Moot point.

    But what I was inferring is that CM Punk's offense would be more effective than Miz's offense, thus making Orton even more prone to a GTS.

    Another win tainted by interference. Are you starting to see a pattern?


    He didn't kick out of it at The Royal Rumble.

    Again, in a lumberjack match where Punk was distracted, and Orton was able to take advantage.

    Your argument hinges on Orton being able to capitalize on some sort of distraction, and that's not going to happen. Even if Orton has Cowboy Bob or Ted or Cody at ringside for him, CM Punk could have Candido or Gallows, so the odds will be evened. At CM Punk's best, he was a tank that could deal out just as much damage as he could take, and he could take a hell of a beating. Orton can too, but not the legendary hour plus beatings Punk could take. Either this one goes to the draw, or Punk gets the win.
     
    #12
  13. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    The answer to who the better wrestler is is simple, and that's CM Punk.

    Just take for example both Orton and Punk as heels in WWE. Orton as a heel has half the crowd cheering for him, while Punk as a heel has the entire crowd booing him. Pretty simple to see who actually knows how to be an effective heel.

    Then when you look at the history of matches the two has had. Orton's had some good ones, but the only matches that really stand out for him are his matches against Foley and The Undertaker. But that's it. This guy had countless bad matches with Cena and HHH, two of the best workers from the last decade in WWE. And he had bad matches with them consistently. I mean, that alone shows just how overrated Orton is, that his feuds and matches with both Triple H and Cena were very disappointing and lackluster. His stuff with The Miz recently sucked as well. A 60-year-old JERRY LAWLER had better matches with The Miz than Orton was able to have... what does that tell you?

    CM Punk, on the other hand, hardly ever has a bad match. His matches with Morrison and Jeff Hardy alone crushes anything Orton has done in WWE, with maybe the exception of Orton's match with Foley at Backlash 2004. However, Punk is much more consistent than Orton when it comes to big match situations. His matches always live up to the hype, whether it's the first match on the card or the main event; you're pretty much always guaranteed a good match with Punk out there. You absolutely cannot say the same for Orton.

    And this isn't even bringing up Punk's indy work, which REALLY crushes everything Orton has done in his lackluster career.

    Promo wise... I mean, I think even the biggest Orton mark on the board will admit that Punk crushes Orton in every way, shape, and form when it comes to promos. It's not even worth debating.

    And as far as kayfabe goes... an argument could be made for either guy, to be honest. On different nights you'll get different winners with these two, which is why I exclude the kayfabe argument here and just look at who's the better wrestler and who has entertained me more throughout his career, and the answer to that undoubtedly CM Punk.
     
    #13
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  14. Hulkamaniac

    Hulkamaniac Vote Hogan, Savage, Rocky and Thesz

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    Even though I don't enjoy Orton at all (and I only like Punk marginally better), seems pretty clear cut. The two are contemporaries in the WWE, and Orton is by far the bigger star. Maybe eventually Punk will elevate to the level of Orton, but it's pretty clear cut win for Orton. It's just hard to get around the fact that both guys are competing right now, and Orton is unquestionably the bigger star for the WWE.
     
    #14
  15. Big Nick Dudley

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    Same here. Randall may have had the opportunity to do well before Punk, but Orton has busted his ass too, and there's no arguing with that.

    :lmao:

    So smoking weed now prohibits you from going further in a fantasy wrestling tournament?

    How did CM Punk win his first World Heavyweight Championship? He cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase on a beaten-down Edge. I see nothing wrong with that win, but it wasn't exactly clean.

    Punk has also had plenty of help from the different factions he's been in charge. Do I have a problem with that? No. Why? Because he was a heel. That's what heels do.

    And I was saying the same for Orton.

    Sure I can. Orton lost to John Cena, the biggest name in professional wrestling, right now. The most unstoppable force in the business, right now. No man needs to be ashamed of a loss, but Cena is a bigger deal than Hero, no question.

    And I believe Orton pinned Hardy at his absolute best, so that doesn't mean a whole lot.

    And yeah, Hardy is not HBK. Shawn didn't have a weak period. He may have been away from the title picture due to age and trying to help young guys get a shot, but he also main evented WrestleMania just last year. Face it, HBK is a much bigger deal.

    Same can be said for Punk.

    Indy equivalent, being the key phrase. I have absolutely nothing against independent promotions, but the WWE is a bigger deal.

    Not in this scenario.

    Depending on the exposure, sure.

    I would say so.

    And I'm simply telling you Orton did the same thing, on a bigger stage, for a lot more people to see.

    Hell In A Cell PPV, 2009. A Punt for the 1-2-3. No one interfered.

    Orton has been a heel most of his career, nearly all of it. Heels are booked differently, and you know it.

    Also, how many times has Randy Orton lost a one-on-one match, clean, since the Royal Rumble in 2010? You can count that shit on one hand. Since the crowd turned him into a babyface, he's been as dominant as anyone on that roster.

    Same thing with any other heel, CM Punk included.

    If someone else snuck through the crowd and hit the GTS for Punk, then I could see where you're coming from :disappointed: It's a bad example, so please, just stop.

    Yeah, I am. Heels win that way. It happens. Are you forgetting the way CM Punk won some of his matches while playing a heel??

    :lmao:

    Come on, JGlass. It was a total sneak attack, and it wasn't Punk's match. He came out of nowhere, and hit his finisher.

    Someone grabbed Punks leg. Holy. Shit. Someone call a cop. The RKO put him out, and Orton pinned him. If someone had hit Punk with a chair, given him a finishing move (like Punk did to Orton at the Rumble), I could see your point. But grabbing a leg? Weak. If Punk cannot deal with someone grabbing his leg, how is he going to deal with Randy Orton in his prime? Ya know, the guy who rarely loses.

    No, it hinges on Orton hitting the RKO, like he did the first time, and that being enough to keep Punk down for three. It's not Orton's fault if Punk cannot handle someone grabbing his leg in a freakin' Lumberjack Match.

    Also, lets not forget how Orton took some punishment from those guys on the outside as well.

    And as you said yourself, Orton is in his prime right now. And as I pointed out earlier, you can count on one hand how many times Orton has lost clean since turning babyface. He's been dominant. I'm sorry, but some kid from the Indy leagues isn't walking into WWE, right now, and beating Randy Orton. It just isn't happening.

    Or.. Orton gets the win, like he has over bigger and better names than CM Punk.

    I'm not responding after this, seeing this is a fantasy wrestling tournament and all. But someone needed to make a case for Orton, so I did my best. Orton, right now, is a bigger deal than CM Punk has ever been. Orton doesn't lose clean to almost anyone (in the last year, his prime), and I highly doubt an Indy wrestler (Punk's prime, according to you) is going to get the job done.
     
    #15
  16. Hulk Hogan's Brother

    Hulk Hogan's Brother Stop asking me what I'm gonna do!!!

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    I am a huge fan of both guys so I'll try to judge them as fairly as I can. Let us break it down.

    Mic Skills and Crowd Reaction: Punk is obviously the more gifted in ring worker but Randy is able to get some great crowd reactions as well by his actions. Punk relies on his prowess on the mic while Randy does it by his actions( to generate a crowd reaction), so both men are even in this category in my opinion.

    Also I would not read much into Orton getting cheered as a heel. It was a combination of fans digging into his Viper character and some shoddy booking by the WWE. First they squared off Orton against Sheamus and you will generally see that when two heels wrestle, people tend to cheer for the heel who has been around longer. WWE also did not book Cody or Ted Jr very strongly and that too caused Orton to get cheered over Ted and Cody.

    In ring ability: This one obviously goes to CM Punk. Punk has wrestled in some of the greatest matches in the indy scene as well as some of the greatest matches in the WWE in the past three years. Orton is a solid worker at best. His best matches have come ages ago against two very accomplished workers in Undertaker and Mick Foley. He has had some bad matches against great workers like Cena and HHH as well and so he loses out to Punk in this regard. As his career has progressed Orton's performances in the ring have degraded while Punk always manages to put on a great show.

    Overall Career: In this regard too I feel that they are evenly matched. Orton has more kayfabe achievements on a bigger stage but Punk started out in WWE much after Orton did and is today as big a star as Orton. When Punk entered the WWE, Orton had already main evented a WrestleMania by that point but yet he has managed to catch up with Orton in the intervening years.

    Orton had the benefit of starting out in OVW, which is basically a developmental territory for the WWE and then progressing to the main roster pretty quickly. His second generation superstar status might have helped him there. Punk, on the other hand, was making a name for himself on the indy circuit. He had no connections but he got noticed on the sheer weight of his talent. I'm not saying that Randy does not have talent but he got a chance to show his talent on a huge stage much earlier than most wrestlers get and that might be because of the fact that he is a second generation superstar.

    Orton has been booked stronger than Punk in the WWE but Punk was booked pretty strongly in his indy days as well so once again they are even in that regard.

    Orton has succeeded both as a face and as a heel but he has also failed as a face once. Punk has succeeded as a heel and did not meet with that much success as a face but it could be said that he was not given a fair run at the top.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So I would say that they are even in almost every way but Punk has the edge over Orton when it comes to in ring ability and so Punk should rightfully go over here.
     
    #16
  17. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

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    Yes there is. Look, I'm about to do it!

    Jesus Christ you are one condescending bastard. I was simply pointing out that Orton isn't as dedicated to the craft as CM Punk. Until Orton fell in line behind Triple H and Vince McMahon, he had a serious attitude problem, and one of the things he got in trouble for was smoking weed backstage during shows. Now I'm all for rolling up a joint and lighting that bad boy up to relax, but do that shit on your own time, don't blow the smoke in your boss's face.

    It's a good thing I haven't used that as an example then, otherwise I'd be a hypocrite. He did, however, have clean victories over JBL during that reign. He also beat Jeff Hardy a few times cleanly during his second and third reign.

    But in this tournament neither man will have the advantage of having their factions be able to run in and interfere on their behalf. You could argue that Orton will have a friend to distract Punk, but then Punk could also have a friend that will distract Orton.

    Has Orton ever last 60 minutes? What about 93? No? Moving on then.

    I would feel no better or worse about the Jets losing to the Patriots than the Jets losing to the Bills. A loss is a loss is a loss.

    Err, Orton pinned Hardy before Hardy was ever a champion. Punk won the belt off of Hardy. Advantage: Punk.

    Only in the fact that he was a legend. I suppose you could argue beating a Shawn Michaels that is wrestling after a nearly career ending back injury is just as good or slightly better than beating a prime Jeff Hardy... oh, but wait! THERE ARE CONDITIONS AGAIN! At Unforgiven 03, Orton beat Shawn Michaels after 1) Ric Flair put Orton's foot on the rope thus breaking up the 3 count Shawn would have gotten on Orton and then 2) Orton hit HBK with a pair of brass knuckles!

    Then, at Judgment Day 2007, Orton attacked HBK before the match, and HBK wrestled the entire match injured as a result of those attacks. In fact, Orton never pinned Shawn in the match, after Shawn hit an elbow drop, he attempted to hit Sweet Chin Music, but he collapsed as a result of the injuries sustained prior to the match.

    These matches were RIDDLED with cheating. In fact, these wins are so worthless that they are worthy of a patented Nick B condescending smiley.

    :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

    Negative. As I pointed out late in my last point, Punk beat them by skill and tenacity, not cheating.
    So are we supposed to hold it against Punk that he didn't have a free ride into the WWE?

    No, it still is. In fact, it ALWAYS is. Until you provide the big wrestling dictionary's definition of prime, it will always be a muddy concept.

    So once again, we hold the fact that Punk had to pay his dues against him and reward Orton for being the son of Cowboy Bob? That seems... unfair.

    Then the tournament is over, and Hulk Hogan beat Stone Cold in the final!

    So... then it's a draw?

    Ah yes, what a crazy time it was in the WWE. Orton lost the title to Cena at the PPV prior to it, won it back at Hell in a Cell, and then lost it again at the next PPV!

    Yes, they are booked as weak and unable to win without the aid of friends or cheating. I don't see your point.

    Jack Swagger beat him cleanly at Extreme Rules. 'Nuff said.

    And if he was so unstoppable, then how come he couldn't win the Fatal 4 Way at Fatal 4 Way or Money in the Bank at Money In the Bank?

    CM Punk won his title cleanly in ROH, and he won the title back from Jeff Hardy cleanly and also retained it cleanly in a triple threat with Edge and Jeff Hardy, albeit by being tricky.

    It's really not. You're assuming even if Randy Orton was beaten down hard by Punk he'd be able to avoid the GTS because he would be expecting it. That's just insane, not even legends like Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin were able to avoid their opponent's finishers, they were able to kick out of them. Face it, in a match that is this high profile Orton WILL BE HIT WITH THE GTS, and we've seen that he cannot kick out of it.

    Yes, but when he was at his strongest he didn't cheat to win. That's the CM Punk I'm going by.
    As stated before, Randy Orton is going to be hit by the GTS in this match, and it's proven to be a solid enough move to finish Punk off. That's the main point here.

    CM Punk wasn't at his prime then. You're taking the argument out of context, the point was that Orton wouldn't have been able to win without the distraction, so the fact that he beat CM Punk is moot, almost like every other one of your arguments.

    Yeah, except Punk also got molested by Sexual Chocolate on the outside. Also, Punk wasn't at his prime. So a not prime Punk would have beaten a nearly prime (I'd say second strongest point of his career) without the aid of the Silverback (has there ever been a more racist nickname?) and the lumber jacks.

    And back to the original point, I don't doubt that Orton would hit the RKO, I doubt that would be enough to keep down Punk.

    Point?


    Or.. Orton gets the win, like he has over bigger and better names than CM Punk.

    I'm not responding after this, seeing this is a fantasy wrestling tournament and all. But someone needed to make a case for Orton, so I did my best. Orton, right now, is a bigger deal than CM Punk has ever been. Orton doesn't lose clean to almost anyone (in the last year, his prime), and I highly doubt an Indy wrestler (Punk's prime, according to you) is going to get the job done.[/QUOTE]

    Who has he beat that was that impressive? Sheamus? I'd put a prime Punk over him. Miz? Ha. Wade Barrett? What has he even accomplished? A prime Punk is a much different beast than any of Orton's opponents during his Viper incarnation.

    I have no doubts that this would be a close match, but here's how I imagine the finish going down.

    CM Punk would set up Orton for the GTS, but Orton would reverse it into an RKO. He goes for the pin, but Punk kicks out at 2 and 7/8. Orton gets frustrated, REALLY frustrated. He lines Punk up for a punt, and he goes for it, but Punk gets his head out of the way at the last second and takes Orton down with a leg lock. After about 30-45 seconds of enduring the submission hold, Orton escapes and stomps away at CM Punk. He does his taunting thing, and CM Punk stands up, turns around, and Orton goes for a second RKO, but Punk pushes him into the ropes, and picks Orton up off the rebound and sets him up for the GTS. Orton grabs the ropes but Punk manages to pull him away. Orton is trying to kick out but his legs are weakened from the long match and the leg lock he had to endure. CM Punk hits the GTS and nearly collapses onto Orton, and gets the three count. Punk is exhausted and badly beaten, but he is the winner.
     
    #17
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  18. ABMorales787

    ABMorales787 Lord And Master
    Staff Member Administrator

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    Let's check out the noted facts about our rather nicely built 'Mania match-up here.

    Better Heel: CM Punk

    His character is diverse, unique, realistic and easy to hate. He doesn't have to rely on inexistent mental conditions being an arrogant pretty boy or beat down Hall of Famers to get the crowd hating on him. Randy does.

    Better Face: CM Punk

    Orton may be one of the most over faces in WWE today, but he ain't no role model. Not to mention how dull he can be most of the time in the ring being all "methodical". Punk on the other hand is a role model by default with his Straight Edge stuff. His wrestling skills grab anybody's attention and promo's are never an issue for this man. If he were to be turned face at some point, he can easily get over and be more efficient than Randy as a face.

    Better Wrestler: CM Punk

    No questions asked. Punk can't skip a beat in the ring. Most of Randy's offense are stomps. [​IMG] Yeah, like that. That, the IEDDT, more stomps, his Choke Backbreaker, stomps. A Snap Powerslam, more stomps. Stomps the ground with his hands, RKO and well more stomps if that doesn't work.

    Better on Mic: CM Punk

    Let's face it. Most of the time, Randy sounds like Judge Dredd. Monotonic for the most part and then he gets angry. Not much diversity there. But CM Punk is very vocal and can always deliver rock solid promo's using great psychology.


    Randy might win at Wrestlemania because he's the face, but in here, Punk wins every single time.
     
    #18
  19. Alex

    Alex King Of The Wasteland

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    I'm a fan of both actually but recently Punk has been the more calm and collected of the two, he also thinks two steps ahead whereas Orton thinks of the now. This would give Punk the advantage because something he did earlier in the match would give him the edge to win. (Not to mention Nexus is always there for backup)
     
    #19
  20. Sparky

    Sparky Master of the Aussie kiss

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    It took me ages to decide who would win here. Both are exceptional wrestlers and good on the mic but I'm going to go with CM Punk. He is the one better at getting into peoples heads and the better all rounder even if it's not by much. CM Punk wins this by mocking Orton with the ground punching and turning it into the GTS.
     
    #20
  21. Nate DaMac

    Nate DaMac Fuck erbody but me

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    Ok I'm not buying any of this. This comes down to one simple thing to me.

    To my knowledge, the biggest star Punk has a CLEAN win over is Jeff Hardy. The biggest star Orton has a clean win over is John Cena. They were both in gimmick matches so with those canceling each other out, Cena>Hardy, therefore Orton>Punk.

    I love Punk, he's by far one of my favorite guys. More so than Orton, that's for sure. But Orton is one of the biggest stars in the industry and Punk is still yet to establish being anything other than heel fodder for the top faces.
     
    #21
  22. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    I'm going to be honest. CM Punk has bored me over the course of his WWE career. Orton has put me to sleep many times the past four years. However, I'll take 2003-2006 Orton over any version of Punk especially a Punk who lost to everybody the last three years even while winning world titles.
     
    #22
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  23. ABMorales787

    ABMorales787 Lord And Master
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    The Ultimate Warrior has a clean win over Hulk Hogan. Is he > John Cena? I don't think so. Pretty flawed math situation you got there if you ask me. Just because you can beat a major star clean doesn't mean you can beat another star because of it. That's like saying Randy Orton can beat Triple H because he beat Chris Benoit and Triple H couldn't beat Benoit. Sorry, this system is flawed. And besides, unlike Randy, CM Punk has 3 straight wins over Cena as Michael Cole (not so) pleasantly repeated for an entire program. Randy could never get over his arch rival that way. They were always even. But Punk actually came out winning every single time over Cena. Clea or tainted Punk had Cena's number. Randy, not so much.

    So Orton > Punk because Cena > Hardy is wrong. Sorry. Punk wins.
     
    #23
  24. Nate DaMac

    Nate DaMac Fuck erbody but me

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    Kayfabe, which is clearly what I'm doing here, Warrior is head and shoulders above Cena when it comes to this scenario.

    Triple H could and did beat Beniot on a few occasions.

    You're right, I totally forgot to give any other kind of reason so I'm shit out of luck huh? Oh wait...

    I totally did have another argument. Nevermind.

    I said clean wins. The most successful person Punk has a clean win over is Jeff Hardy. This is irrelevant.

    Maybe that's the way you see it, but not I. Personal criteria is pretty irrefutable no?

    Not the way I see it. Punk has no clean wins over any really credible stars, while Orton has a clean win over the biggest star in the world. Orton wins.
     
    #24
  25. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    Have we forgot that Cena beat Punk clean in like five minutes in 2009? Orton beat Cena clean two months before that. I'm still taking any version of Orton over Punk.
     
    #25

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