Calgary Region, Detroit Subregion: First Round: (16)D.B Smith vs.(17)Barry Windham

[Dave]

The following contest is a first round match in the Calgary Region.

This match takes place in the Palace Of Auburn Hills in Detroit, Michigan.

#16 Davey Boy Smith

Vs.

#17 Barry Windham

This contest is one fall with a 20 minute time limit. The match will take place in a 16 x 16 ring with no ramp leading to it. Any traditional managers for either competitor will be allowed at ringside.

As for voting, vote for who you think would win this match based on the criteria you choose. Some suggestions would be (not limited to): in ring ability, overall skill, their level of influence at the highest point in their career, ability to connect with the crowd, experience in major matches or simply personal preference etc.

The most votes in the voting period wins and in the case of a tie, the most written votes wins. There is one written vote per user, meaning if a poster make ten posts saying Bret should win that will count as a single vote. In the event of a second tie, both men are ELIMINATED, no questions asked. Only winners advance.

Voting is open for four days and all posts must be non-spam.​

 

[D-Man]

I'm going with Barry Windham here.

Barry was one of the most balanced wrestlers of all time. He had everything it took to be a pro-wrestler... looks, agility, skill, solid in-ring work. He was a Horseman, and unlike other Horsemen that came after the original four, Windham DESERVED that moniker. That says everything right there.

Windham was a NWA world heavyweight champion, NWA tag champion, 3-time WCW tag champion, NWA US Champion, and two-time WWF champion with Mike Rotunda (pre-IRS). This guy has the resume to back up the fact that at any given time, he could defeat anyone that you put in his path.

Smith was truly a beloved great in this business. He was a tag team specialist, a total powerhouse, and had his moment of glory during Summerslam when he defeated Bret Hart. But one match does not define an entire career. That just makes him a one-trick pony. Even though he was agile and powerful, he did not defeat half of the caliber of opponents that Windham did.

Don't vote here based on the name "Davey Boy Smith." Vote for the better wrestler and talent who's name is BARRY WINDHAM.

 

[Slyfox696]

Really, this isn't much of a contest. Davey Boy is a prime example of "right place, right time". He was in the right place to be in a tag team with Dynamite Kid, and right place to be married to a Hart. All in all, Davey Boy Smith was career midcarder, who was solid in the ring, but far from what someone would consider good.

Barry Windham, on the other hand, was about as close to perfection in the ring as one could possibly be. He was big and strong, but athletic as well. And he was fantastic at telling a story in the ring, and getting fans to believe in the realism of a match. Barry Windham is one of the most underrated workers in wrestling, in my opinion, and he was a real pro. He was never flamboyant, and I think that's what costs him in the annals of history, but he was one of the best you'll ever see inside the ropes.

Barry Windham should win this easily.

 

[The Brain]

I like this match. To the best of my knowledge it never actually happened. I would have liked to have seen this in real life. My vote is going to have to go to Windham here. I think both these guys exceled as mid carders but Windham was more believable in the main event. Even though Bulldog had a main event run challenging Diesel, Hart, and Michaels for the world title I never actually believed he could win it. Windham was always a more belivable champion. Nice match on paper but I think Windham takes it in the ring.

 

[JXL]

I've seen much of the Bulldog's matches from mid-90s, and in terms of power and ability, he's pretty much average. HBK didn't have a hard-enough time beating Smith when he wrestled for the Championship in 1996, and that was right in both of their primes. Windham's track record however is more impressive. He can move around in the ring, has a good size on him, and very charismatic winning multiple tag team championship, midcard championships and the prestigious NWA world heavyweight championship.

My vote: Barry Windham

 

[Tastycles]

Being from Britain, I obviously have a soft spot for Davey Boy, but in all honesty, he never really achieved anything apart from one or two big wins a year when the WWE happened to be in the UK. While I probably wouldn't speak quite so highly of Windham as Sly has earlier within the thread, it is irrefutable that he did more than Davey Boy Smith, and even got a run with the title briefly, something Smith never managed.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

This would've been a fun match to watch but, in the end, I have to give it to Barry Windham. Windham is someone that I think is pretty underrated and never really gets the kind of credit that he deserves. I always thought Windham was someone that was pretty well balanced. He was big, but not too big, he was athletic but didn't look like a gym rat and he had really solid skills inside the ring. His mic work wasn't his strongest suit but I always thought he was pretty compotent. In a nutshell, I always thought of Windham as someone that could have a good feud or match with just about anyone.

As far as Davy Boy Smith goes, I think Slyfox summed it up pretty well. Smith is someone that I always saw as a talented mid-card guy. He had some solid skills inside the ring, had a good look to him and was massively powerful but I never really saw much in him in ways of presence, charisma, personality and his mic work was atrocious at times. The biggest moment of his career is when he beat Bret Hart at SummerSlam '92 for the Intercontinental Championship. It was a great match and it was really the one night of his career that I think people cay say that Smith was truly great.

Windham, however, was more talented and a better wrestler despite never really getting his just deserts.

 

[Tech N9ne]

I will go with Barry Windham. Though Smith could be considered a little bit technical, especially by comparing him to today's wrestlers. But lets face it, the guy was basically all power.

I think Windham is actually one of the most overrated wrestlers of all time. He is so well rounded and balanced, that he may not excite too many people. I think when he was Heel, he was one of the most nasty characters of all time. He sort of gets the shaft a little because he didn't experience a tremendous amount of success in WWE.

He was one half of The WWF Tag Team Champions with Mike Rotunda (IRS). His singles title success came in other federations such as NWA and WCW. He had many classic matches with Ric Flair, some against him and some while on the same side as "The Nature Boy". Barry Windham was also apart of "The Four Horseman".

Some people might vote for Davey Boy Smith given his "family legacy" or connection to the Harts. But lets not forget that Barry Windham was the son of LEGENDARY Black Jack Mulligan!!

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

As a proud Englishman, and being born in the same town as Davey Boy...I have to vote for the Bulldog.

As great as Windham was, I have always thought of Bulldog as man who deserved a world title run. Along with Piper, Hennig and Scott Hall, Smith is a man who was a ready-made champion who never got the chance to hold the WWF title...and should have

Not only was he an awesome tag-team wrestler, part of one of the all-time greatest teams with Dynamite Kid, Smith was brilliant as a singles competitor too, we all know of his matches with Bret Hart, but one of my favourite matches of all time was between Smith and Owen Hart for the European Title in Germany.

I have to give my vote to Bulldog here

RIP Davey Boy

 

[newc868]

Some big Windham support in thread but it's a lot closer in the votes which is good. As a proud Brit my initial instinct is to go towards D.B Smith just for being British... but for me there's a lot more than just that.

Davey Boy Smith looked great and was good in the ring. He had an initial stint in the WWF where in he left after incidents backstage involving his partner at the time, Tom "Dynamite Kid" Billington. At this point he was a renowned tag-team partner but on his return he stood out even more and had a great career. Unfortunately WWF never pulled the trigger on making him a legitimate main event star and giving him the Heavyweight Belt, a title he thoroughly deserved in my eyes.

The man was popular in the US as well as being an idol to people in the UK. Summerslam '92. Although it was in the UK, Smith and Bret Hart put on a wonderful match, some say the greatest of Smith's career, in front one of the largest audiences in WWF/E history. Soon after this he was caught up the HGH scandal, alongside Warrior and although he had a career, overshadowed by drug use, he was no means a bad wrestler. He would get his run in the main event but he never got the WWF title, the only title that evaded him during his time with the company.

His shining moment, for me, was not his Summerslam '92 match but the '95 Rumble, which featured the greatest ending in a Rumble for me. He and Shawn Michaels were number 2 and number 1 respectively, they were first in and last out. He was damn impressive and to me it was just the start of the many occasions in which HBK would go over The British Bulldog and I would say, seemingly hold him back.

In this match, I'd have The Bulldog beating just being too powerful for Windham and beating him in a match and giving me another chance to hear the wonderful Rule Britannia roar out in an arena.

 

[Slyfox696]

That's great and all that you pick your hometown boy, but let's face the facts. The British Bulldog doesn't come close to being as good as Barry Windham. Windham was an all-around better wrestler. He was a World Champion. He was a Horsemen. He was one of the best in-ring workers. His Superplex is second to none.

Davey Boy Smith had muscles, and the right affiliations. Windham was a true pro, and great hand in the ring.

I can understand voting for someone who comes from your country, but I think we all know Barry Windham was a far better worker.

 

[newc868]

Note: Seeing Uncle Phatso's quote in your sig really does leave me a little intimidated... that on top of you being the Vince McMahon/Jack Tunney/Eric Bischoff/Jim Cornette, etc. of this place, it makes it kind of worse... but even if torn to shreds here's my rebuttal:

Affiliations he may of had but how far can a wrestler get without affiliations? If we're to believe what is said - would Sheamus really be a two-time WWE Champion at this point without Triple H's influence? This is just an example of where affiliations can get you.

Of course Bulldog was big and good links but that wasn't just it. He started out at 15, fighting on ITV's World Of Sport over here in the UK, fighting some good wrestlers, ones we see in this competition like Finlay and also fighting the father of Barry Windham - Blackjack Mulligan.

The best thing about Bulldog was his look. The overwhelming presence he gave off. He was a big, powerhouse type wrestler and it worked for him. He was also able to adjust to many styles of wrestling, whether it was Bret Hart's technical prowess or Shawn Michael's energetic, high-flying-esque type of wrestler.

He could handle himself in the ring and although he was career mid-carder, that in part could be down to the things that happened backstage that made him leave WWF/E at different points - whether it was Dynamite Kid's problems forcing him out once, HGH steroid scandal or the Montreal Screwjob - but he could've proved himself in the main event and as he proved himself as an international star.

Overall, I think the British Bulldog, while not a World Champion or as skilled as Windham may have been, was overly more memorable than Windham - at least to me. So that's why he gets my votes and should get others as well.

 

[Slyfox696]

Affiliations he may of had but how far can a wrestler get without affiliations?

A fair point, but that's basically all Bulldog had in getting him over. A great wrestler may get his start because of who he is connected to, but will parlay that affiliation into great success. Bulldog didn't do that. He became a midcarder through Dynamite and Harts, but he never did anything with it.

If we're to believe what is said - would Sheamus really be a two-time WWE Champion at this point without Triple H's influence? This is just an example of where affiliations can get you.

I think so. Triple H isn't stupid, he's not going to make everyone who sucks up to him a World Champion. I'm guessing Sheamus impressed the socks off of Triple H with his work ethic, potential and willingness to learn, and that's how he and Triple H became buddies.

Of course Bulldog was big and good links but that wasn't just it.

In pro wrestling, it kind of was.

The best thing about Bulldog was his look. The overwhelming presence he gave off. He was a big, powerhouse type wrestler and it worked for him.

It was his best thing. It was also the best thing Lex Luger had. But whereas Lex Luger was able to turn his looks into greatness, Bulldog never could.

He could handle himself in the ring and although he was career mid-carder, that in part could be down to the things that happened backstage that made him leave WWF/E at different points - whether it was Dynamite Kid's problems forcing him out once, HGH steroid scandal or the Montreal Screwjob - but he could've proved himself in the main event and as he proved himself as an international star.

I don't think he could. Remember, Bulldog was working in the WWF during one of the most down periods in the history of the company, and STILL couldn't get over as a main-eventer.

Overall, I think the British Bulldog, while not a World Champion or as skilled as Windham may have been, was overly more memorable than Windham - at least to me. So that's why he gets my votes and should get others as well.

I agree, he's more memorable than Windham, but that's due to his work in the WWE and his association with Hart, not because he was in any way better.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Correct me if I happen to be wrong, but Windham's world title reign wasn't recognised by most industry experts as the WCW Heavyweight Championship was portrayed as the big belt. As such, it was regarded more as a US/ IC level belt.

Barry was a phenomenal wrestler but Davey Boy was regarded as more of a world title threat - against the likes of Big Van Vader, Bret Hart, Diesel, HBK and the Rock. Barry did have two world title feuds against Ric Flair and Lex Luger.

Both guys held every title except the big belt in their respective companies.

If you consider both guys, who do you consider their main protagonist? You know, in the same way as the Rock 'N Roll Express will always be compared with Midnight Express. IMO Barry's was 'the Natural' Dustin Rhodes who was good but the Bulldog's luminaries were HBK and Bret Hart who were greats.

I think Smith has to take this and he gets my vote.

 

[Slyfox696]

Correct me if I happen to be wrong, but Windham's world title reign wasn't recognised by most industry experts as the WCW Heavyweight Championship was portrayed as the big belt. As such, it was regarded more as a US/ IC level belt.

That's not really how I understood it. I understood it as the belt Windham had was the official NWA World title, and the WCW International World Heavyweight Championship was the temporary one WCW created. Barry Windham beat The Great Muta for the title, and then lost it to Ric Flair, and did all of it on WCW programming. He beat Muta at Superbrawl, and lost to Flair at WCW Beach Blast.

Barry was a phenomenal wrestler but Davey Boy was regarded as more of a world title threat - against the likes of Big Van Vader, Bret Hart, Diesel, HBK and the Rock.

He was? Really? Not by me, and certainly not by the WWE. On the other hand, Barry Windham WAS a World Champion.

Barry did have two world title feuds against Ric Flair and Lex Luger.

And beat Muta for the World title.

Both guys held every title except the big belt in their respective companies.

Actually, Windham did win the big belt.

If you consider both guys, who do you consider their main protagonist? You know, in the same way as the Rock 'N Roll Express will always be compared with Midnight Express. IMO Barry's was 'the Natural' Dustin Rhodes who was good but the Bulldog's luminaries were HBK and Bret Hart who were greats.

Are you trying to say Bulldog is better than Windham, because HBK and Bret are better than Dustin Rhodes? Using that logic, Windham wins because Flair is better than the Warlord, who it seemed Bulldog fought every day back in '91.

I'm sorry, but quality of opponents just isn't a sound argument.

I think Smith has to take this and he gets my vote.

So the guy with no world championships, never a legitimate main-eventer, and inferior in-ring ability takes it over the one who is the exact opposite? We're all entitled to our vote, just not sure how you justify this.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

That's not really how I understood it. I understood it as the belt Windham had was the official NWA World title, and the WCW International World Heavyweight Championship was the temporary one WCW created. Barry Windham beat The Great Muta for the title, and then lost it to Ric Flair, and did all of it on WCW programming. He beat Muta at Superbrawl, and lost to Flair at WCW Beach Blast.

He was? Really? Not by me, and certainly not by the WWE. On the other hand, Barry Windham WAS a World Champion.

And beat Muta for the World title.

Actually, Windham did win the big belt.

This was a secondary belt to the WCW World Heavyweight Belt and destined to become the WCW International World Heavyweight Championship. Sting and Vader were the recognised world champs during Barry's reign.

Are you trying to say Bulldog is better than Windham, because HBK and Bret are better than Dustin Rhodes? Using that logic, Windham wins because Flair is better than the Warlord, who it seemed Bulldog fought every day back in '91.

I'm sorry, but quality of opponents just isn't a sound argument.

Who you are most regularly compared with is a major argument. When you say Roddy Piper, you think of his rivalry with Hulk Hogan. When you say Austin, you think of the Rock. Sting - Ric Flair. It's not necessary their opponents, when you say Lex Luger you immediately think of Sting and while they had their feuds they are most remembered as friends, see also the Ultimate Warrior or Andre with Hogan or Eddie Guerrero with Rey and Benoit. If you don't associate a wrestler with a great, then chances are you'll not regard them highly either. If you want to associate Davey Boy with the Warlord that is your right, as a former tag team specialist who won every belt but the WWF World I'd associate him with former tag team specialists who won all the singles titles available to them - the fact they also headlined PPVs together strengthened the links.

So the guy with no world championships, never a legitimate main-eventer, and inferior in-ring ability takes it over the one who is the exact opposite? We're all entitled to our vote, just not sure how you justify this.

Summerslam '92, Slamboree '93, Royal Rumble '94, In Your House 4, In Your House 5, In Your House 8, King Of The Ring '96, One Night Only '97 and Unforgiven '99. That's nine PPVs were the Bulldog was a major part of the marquee match. If he wasn't a draw he'd never have got as many.

In ring ability? I take it John Cena doesn't get far in this tourney then? I enjoyed both guys in the ring and don't really see that big a disparity in their abilities.

This is very little in the careers of both guys - they could almost be mirror images with Barry the NWA/WCW version of WWF Davey. I think Smith would have overpowered Windham - something that didn't happen very often to the 6 foot 7 inch Texan and beaten him with a delayed vertical suplex followed by his trademark running Powerslam.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Summerslam '92, Slamboree '93, Royal Rumble '94, In Your House 4, In Your House 5, In Your House 8, King Of The Ring '96, One Night Only '97 and Unforgiven '99. That's nine PPVs were the Bulldog was a major part of the marquee match. If he wasn't a draw he'd never have got as many.

If Bulldog was a draw, he would have been in many more wouldn't you think? There have been plenty of wrestlers who have never been draws that have been in main event matches.

Bulldog wasn't even in the 1994 Royal Rumble so I assume you mean the 1995 Royal Rumble in which him being the last eliminated doesn't mean he's a draw. I guess the other 29 competitors were draws as well because they were in the match. Also, Bulldog was the last cared about wrestler at Unforgiven 1999. It was all about HHH and Vince McMahon way, way, way more than it was about Davey Boy.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

If Bulldog was a draw, he would have been in many more wouldn't you think? There have been plenty of wrestlers who have never been draws that have been in main event matches.

Bulldog wasn't even in the 1994 Royal Rumble so I assume you mean the 1995 Royal Rumble in which him being the last eliminated doesn't mean he's a draw. I guess the other 29 competitors were draws as well because they were in the match. Also, Bulldog was the last cared about wrestler at Unforgiven 1999. It was all about HHH and Vince McMahon way, way, way more than it was about Davey Boy.

I included the Rumble because he was 'rubbed' almost as much as HBK as they were the initial entrants. Unforgiven '99 - you can be sure the Bulldog was included to promote interest in Europe were he was very over. Of course many wrestlers have been pushed to audience apathy but the fact that Vince wasn't afraid to use Davey Boy, indicates that this wasn't the case here. I was comparing like with like here - you say "If Bulldog was a draw, he would have been in many more wouldn't you think?", how many PPVs was Barry a major player in the main event (and you can't count Halloween Havoc '90)?

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Barry Windham wins this. Many have already said what I'm going to say.. but it bears repeating. He's a pro's pro. He was 6'5, 280 lbs. Very agile for a bigger guy and beat guys like Rhodes and Luger while in their prime. Hell, he even gave Flair everything he could handle and then some in their only title match.

Davey Boy Smith had ONE good match to my knowledge against Bret Hart and that was in his home country. In a neutral site and in a simple match, Windham would figure out Smith real quick and also, as a true heel... with JJ Dillion in his corner... it should really be no contest for Windham.

Windham wins with a Claw at the 16 minute mark.

 

[hatehabsforever]

I am a little ashamed to admit it, but I am not particularly familiar with Barry Windham. I am, however, quite familiar with Davey Boy. I always really enjoyed his work. His match with Bret Hart is still one of my favorites. The Bulldog was a pretty powerful guy who could function effectively as a face or as a heel. My vote here, somewhat from a position of ignorance, is for the British Bulldog, Davey Boy Smith.

 

[Janice]

Davey Boy Smith was trained by Stu Hart, the man who could make your leg bend in ways you never knew were possible. Stu was as tough as you'd get and I'm sure he passed at least a little of that onto the British Bulldog. I know very little about Windham and in a way, I think this is a point in its own. Barry isn't mentioned or talked about anymore, if he was than there would have been a lot more reasons to support him. Davey Boy, you still hear about him and part of this is because of his friendships with guys like Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels. And if either of them were in his corner, or Stu for that matter? I think they would just add that extra bit of moral support and while part of it is me just being uneducated in the old school, old school wrestlers, it's late and I'm as unmotivated as ever. This sure is tight though, heck, you can't get any closer!