Zack Ryder intentionally left off of RAW as a rib?

[Coco]

I guess hard work only counts when you're a top guy taking as many media appearances as you can.

 

[JGlass]

I'll put this simply. Justin Gabriel was the most over babyface on NXT1.

 

[Remix]

I calls it as I hears it.

 

[JGlass]

In which case you need a hearing aid.

 

[Thriller Ant]

In which case you need a hearing aid.

But...but... he was over in South Africa, JGlass! SOUTH FUCKING AFRICA!

 

[Coco]

I'm sure he was good in FCW too.

 

[Remix]

In which case you need a hearing aid.

Excellent comeback, though I definately remember that there were weeks in NXT1 where Gabriel was outpopping DBD. But meh.

 

[Remix]

But...but... he was over in South Africa, JGlass! SOUTH FUCKING AFRICA!

And DH Smith and Ted DiBiase were over in Japan. Doesn't matter except as evidence that Justin Gabriel can get over on his own merits if he's given the chance. Though, I'll be the first to admit that Gabriel in South Africa was in an entirely different situation than he has been at any stage of his WWE career.

I'm sure he was good in FCW too.

He was, but that's got nothing to do with anything.

 

[Lee]

I'll put this simply. Justin Gabriel was the most over babyface on NXT1.

 

[Shocky]

I watched his match that was taped on Monday. Dude was over as fuck. Least shocking news of the day, Vince McMahon is an asshole.

 

[Stormtrooper]

I've been gone for a while, and I have a lot to reply to, it seems. Time to educate the uneducated.

Just out of curiosity, who should Ryder be taking TV time away from? I'd love to hear him answer that question. Him calling for a push is obviously telling the creative department they are pushing someone they shouldn't be.

Monday Night is the only night I'm talking about. How about get rid of the Diva's kickline, which was ridiculous. How about instead of Santino vs. Sheamus. Ryder was massively over last night in his hometown (likely the loudest pop among non-Austin people Monday). How about make the Miz/Piper/A-Ry segment a tag match (A-Ri/Piper vs. Miz/ZR). Why that segment? Well, Piper KOed Ryder with a Coconut at Mania, after all. Continuity FTW!

DiBiase blew his chance, fair enough, I said in another thread today he was "worthless." But I remember someone had a chance on this thing called ECW, did he not? I'm almost certain Ryder was pushed as the guy who ended Tommy Dreamer's career. And he ended up doing nothing. So he blew his chance too.

Bullshit. he didn't blow his chance on ECW. ECW ended, and he got lost in the shuffle thrown onto RAW, which he never should have been on (he should have been put on SD, he would have gotten over there, when the SD Roster wasn't as insanely deep).

Three years after he first started he was terrible.

Wade Barrett. Justin Gabriel. CM Punk. Sin Cara. All got over pretty damn fast after their debuts. I think that's enough. Don't you?

You bring up Zack Ryder being on for 3 years (actually, he debuted in May of 2007, which is 4 years ago). In his first 2 years, what'd he do? Wrestle in a generic Tag Team (they were never given a chance to stand out), which ultimately became a team of Generic Edge wannabe's, which also led to them again ultimately becoming generic again without a chance to get over. Then he debuted on ECW with the early version of his current gimmick, and he got over a bit on the C show. He got over enough to get a ECW Main Event feud, and ultimately the show ended and he got thrown to the low card without any mic time. Barrett/Gabriel/Punk ALL had copious amounts of chances to get over via the mic, and all 4 have been given chances to get over on the main show, something that Zack Ryder never got the chance to do.

Another thing. These guys you mentioned all were wrestling for YEARS before making their WWE Debut. Zack Ryder was signed at 20 years old relatively quickly after training, and debuted at age 21/22. So his 4 years experience is pretty much 4-5 years WRESTLING experience, not 3 years WWE experience. And he's currently only 26. It's not like he's a grizzled old veteran.

Rider has a job with the WWE, and that is to be an enhancement talent heel. Repeat: heel. He is not paid money to get pops from the crowd or be a comedy character, he's supposed to help the babyface get over. Rider is failing in this regard.

If Rider wanted to be a babyface comedy character then he should probably have gone through creative, cleared the change and then started his whole viral campaign. As it is, it looks suspiciously like he may have gone into business for himself and been punished for it.

[YOUTUBE]VJUzN2-FAdU[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]IvkZR2IxFJ4[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]PWLndUh2qKg[/YOUTUBE]

That doesn't look very heelish to me, or anyone with half a brain. Cena is the ultimate uber-face. You positively interact with him, you're a face.

To offer a counter example, if a heel randomly starts doing a load of highspots in the middle of a match then he's going to get the fans to start cheering for him... but that is not what he is paid to do.

You mean if CM Jesus starts doing Macho Man elbows and wearing Macho Man trunks, he's not doing what he's paid to do? Then why was he universally praised? It's a 2-way street. Until more people knock CM Punk for blatantly ignoring his role ON WWE TV, people can't complain about Zack Ryder.

 

[Shocky]

Being over on NXT is pretty much being the guy that wins at the special olympics.

 

[Remix]

You bring up Zack Ryder being on for 3 years (actually, he debuted in May of 2007, which is 4 years ago).

I picked three years pretty much at random.

In his first 2 years, what'd he do? Wrestle in a generic Tag Team (they were never given a chance to stand out), which ultimately became a team of Generic Edge wannabe's, which also led to them again ultimately becoming generic again without a chance to get over.

When you're interacting with Edge, The Undertaker and Vickie "Heat Magnet" Gurrerro, you have to be pretty shit not to get over.

Then he debuted on ECW with the early version of his current gimmick, and he got over a bit on the C show. He got over enough to get a ECW Main Event feud, and ultimately the show ended and he got thrown to the low card without any mic time.

I don't remember him ever getting great reactions, like the guys earlier in the thread said.

Barrett/Gabriel/Punk ALL had copious amounts of chances to get over via the mic, and all 4 have been given chances to get over on the main show, something that Zack Ryder never got the chance to do.

Gee, do you think there's a reason for that? Mention an anti Ryder conspiracty and I will track you down and break your neck.

Another thing. These guys you mentioned all were wrestling for YEARS before making their WWE Debut. Zack Ryder was signed at 20 years old relatively quickly after training, and debuted at age 21/22. So his 4 years experience is pretty much 4-5 years WRESTLING experience, not 3 years WWE experience. And he's currently only 26. It's not like he's a grizzled old veteran.

What you do before you get signed matters very little. How much experience did John Cena have before he came to Smackdown? All of two years. Experience doesn't matter if you're, ya know good.

 

[Stormtrooper]

When you're interacting with Edge, The Undertaker and Vickie "Heat Magnet" Gurrerro, you have to be pretty shit not to get over.
The Edgeheads were pretty over. I never said they weren't. They weren't before or after because they were never given a chance to actually show what they could do.

I don't remember him ever getting great reactions, like the guys earlier in the thread said.

He never gets a chance to get reactions. Nobody is in the stands for Superstars. He gets a decent reaction given the lack of full crowds, how early the match is filmed, and how much time he is given to get over on WWE time (which is the only way to really get over, as a lot of the audience doesn't follow the internet).

Gee, do you think there's a reason for that? Mention an anti Ryder conspiracty and I will track you down and break your neck.

They all got mic time and storylines. That's why they got over. Zack Ryder gets no mic time and hasn't had a storyline since he was on ECW, which was what, 2 years ago now?

No conspiracy, just facts.

What you do before you get signed matters very little. How much experience did John Cena have before he came to Smackdown? All of two years. Experience doesn't matter if you're, ya know good.

John Cena was shit for his first year or so.

And Zack Ryder is FAR from terrible. He's a pretty good WWE wrestler. Not the best, but good.

 

[Lee]

“You sir. Where are you from? [Long Island!] Does everyone in LONG ISLAND have hair that looks like PUSSY you DIPSHIT?”

AWKWAAAAAAARD!!!
​

 

[X]

You are flat out full of shit if you're claiming that Justin Gabriel was more over on NXT than Daniel Bryan. Like you're literally just flat out LYING right now by making that absurd claim. The crowd didn't give a flying fuck about Gabriel for the most part, for about 99% of his NXT tenure. Whereas they were vocally and visibly behind Bryan from Day One, which is what led to him winning in the first place.

 

[Coco]

Wade Barrett won... Nope. Forget it.

 

[X]

Wade Barrett won... Nope. Forget it.

Lol oh yeah you're right, forgot about that. Well, they clearly established Bryan to be the winner and he got the biggest push out of the whole thing arguably, so it's clear he was THE guy in that first season. Which is why they had him lined up to lead the Nexus originally and then brought him back in the main event of a PPV as John Cena's right hand man.

Doesn't change my main point though about Bryan being way the fuck more over from day one than Gabriel has ever been at any point in his career.

 

[Thriller Ant]

You are flat out full of shit if you're claiming that Justin Gabriel was more over on NXT than Daniel Bryan. Like you're literally just flat out LYING right now by making that absurd claim. The crowd didn't give a flying fuck about Gabriel for the most part, for about 99% of his NXT tenure. Whereas they were vocally and visibly behind Bryan from Day One, which is what led to him winning in the first place.

The only reason he got any reaction was because he came out to Fatt Hardy's music.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

I believe that Db was the first person left go off nxt?

 

[TSG]

No, you're taking most of what people are saying and immediately replying with the opposite. I am not. That is what makes you a mark. You're also over-exaggerating the guys ability, which I will now prove.

No, and no.

The two lines I underlined. For one, he jobbed to Finlay on an episode of ECW, three weeks after he debuted. He didn't get any heat, I remember him coming about and doing segments with Rosa Mendes which would put people to sleep. Ryder's first win on ECW was against a jobber, his second was a battle royal to face Christian and that was his only solid match on ECW. I remember his match with Dreamer, and it was sloppy as hell.

He was working with Dreamer? How is it not going to be sloppy? His matches with Christian were good, and after those two feuds ECW was dead, then he gets shuffled away to RAW.

Ryder didn't get much heat, and he wasn't having solid matches. He had to be missing something to become a jobber. People have said it in this thread, Ryder, was months ago, nothing. He became something due to his YouTube videos. Congrats to him and I wish him all the best, but stop making shit up, he is good on the microphone, he has a decent look and he has became a solid wrestler.

Those are my final words on the matter.

First, thanks for proving my point about Ryder, he is good on the mic with good wrestling skills. If given a chance, that usually equals a good crowd reaction. Tell me which part of that equation is missing.

Ryder had a cult following since ECW, and it grew with Superstars. It just gained more with his Youtube show, but he had fans before. I was one of them. And you must be deaf if you don't think his segments with Rosa and Tommy didn't get heat.

Three years after he first started he was terrible.

Really, because I seem to recall some matches with Christian on ECW and Superstars matches that were nowhere near terrible.

Wade Barrett. Justin Gabriel. CM Punk. Sin Cara. All got over pretty damn fast after their debuts. I think that's enough. Don't you?

Yeah. Barrett and Gabriel got significant mic time on NXT, subsequently attacked the face of the company, destroyed the arena, and engaged in a feud for months with the company face upon their debut, all while gaining even more mic time. Punk got two MitB wins, a push straight out of the gate at a time when ECW wasn't completely dead in the water, and significant mic time and promos, and Sin Cara was given a major press conference and vignettes hyping hisn debut for a month. Ryder got plastered with a new gimmick to debut out of nowhere on a show with miniscule ratings that would be dead in a month, followed by over a year of being relegated to Superstars matches every 2/3 weeks. Tell me which one didn't get a fair chance to get over in this situation before you start comparing and talking about how over they are. Go ahead, I'll let you think about it.

Something I never quite understood about this Ryder phenomenon, how do those youtube videos suggest he would be a good professional wrestler?

Wait for it....

it's his wrestling that suggests he would be a good wrestler.

This would be the answer to the above. Watch Superstars or old episodes of ECW.

If you dare suggest for one second Gabriel has ever been more over except than this man, when he was in South Africa, in FCW, on NXT, on RAW, whenever, then you are so wrong it isn't even funny. There is a difference between liking someone and them being over. I like Trent Baretta more than Alberto Del Rio. Does that mean Baretta is more over than Del Rio? No, it doesn't. I could care less if Gabriel wrestled a match in Somalia on board a pirate ship and got more cheers than John Cena, he will never be as over as Bryan. Truthfully, Ryder is probably more over now than Gabriel is.

Bullshit. he didn't blow his chance on ECW. ECW ended, and he got lost in the shuffle thrown onto RAW, which he never should have been on (he should have been put on SD, he would have gotten over there, when the SD Roster wasn't as insanely deep).

You bring up Zack Ryder being on for 3 years (actually, he debuted in May of 2007, which is 4 years ago). In his first 2 years, what'd he do? Wrestle in a generic Tag Team (they were never given a chance to stand out), which ultimately became a team of Generic Edge wannabe's, which also led to them again ultimately becoming generic again without a chance to get over. Then he debuted on ECW with the early version of his current gimmick, and he got over a bit on the C show. He got over enough to get a ECW Main Event feud, and ultimately the show ended and he got thrown to the low card without any mic time. Barrett/Gabriel/Punk ALL had copious amounts of chances to get over via the mic, and all 4 have been given chances to get over on the main show, something that Zack Ryder never got the chance to do.

Thank you. Apparently some people can't get this through their heads because I've been repeating it, but maybe you can word it better.

Being over on NXT is pretty much being the guy that wins at the special olympics.

 

[Lee]

He was working with Dreamer? How is it not going to be sloppy? His matches with Christian were good, and after those two feuds ECW was dead, then he gets shuffled away to RAW.

Don't be so stupid.

 

[TSG]

When you're interacting with Edge, The Undertaker and Vickie "Heat Magnet" Gurrerro, you have to be pretty shit not to get over.

You do realize Hawkins and Ryder might have spoke TWICE at the most as part of La Familia, right. The only reason they were even in the stable was to make it seem more intimidating and add another team to the tag division, because other than Miz and Morrison, the top team was Finlay and Horny. They were not there to speak, nor were they given a chance to.

I don't remember him ever getting great reactions, like the guys earlier in the thread said.

No one said he got SCSA reactions. But he got solid heel heat. Which is all it really calls for to be a mid-card heel these days. Which is all I'm asking for, a mid-card push to give him a chance to shine. And if he doesn't shine, I will admit defeat.

Gee, do you think there's a reason for that?

How the hell are we supposed to know? That's what we are trying to figure out.

 

[Coco]

I'll be the one to say it: I don't know where Remix has been for the last few months, but I wish he'd go back.

 

[TSG]

Don't be so stupid.

I'm just saying, Dreamer isn't the best in-ring worker. He is solid enough to get by, but he is getting older and was about to leave, plus he wasn't the best in-ring worker in his prime. He isn't going to put on the best matches. Of course Ryder isn't the most experienced, but putting on sloppy matches with Dreamer, all of the blame can't go on one guy.