Zack Ryder intentionally left off of RAW as a rib?

[D-Man]

I can't think of a single person in the WWE that is worse on the mic than Ted DiBiase, and that includes Heath Slater.

I'm just sayin.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Who would have thought a Zack Ryder thread would lead to so much bullshit? Everyone? Okay then.

But seriously, if Ted DiBiase was as good as you say he is then he would have shown it by now. The dude has been given countless opportunities to stand out, and he has failed literally every time. I never saw the appeal of Ted DiBiase, and I still don't. I can't think of a single person in the WWE that is worse on the mic than Ted DiBiase, and that includes Heath Slater. I also can't remember the last time he's done anything even remotely impressive in the ring. A lot of the people Sign Guy named were in fact much better and more worthy of a push than Ryder, but DiBiase is among the names of folks that should make way for the Ryder Revolution.

Checked YouTube, and I can't find anything except his top ten moves, but the truth is Ted DiBiase Jr was better than a solid wrestler in Japan. How he feel into what he has became, I don't honestly know! He's a severe case of being watered down to a degree, and he isn't that bad on the microphone, he just has a shit voice, and if anything he sounds more natural than others. On NXT he was quite good on the mic.

Personal opinion, Ted DiBiase is a better wrestler than Zack Ryder. I don't know of anything in-ring related that's impressive, hes had solid matches on Superstars but that's about it.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

Checked YouTube, and I can't find anything except his top ten moves.

http://www.youtube.com/user/LongIslandIcedZ

 

[JGlass]

Checked YouTube, and I can't find anything except his top ten moves, but the truth is Ted DiBiase Jr was better than a solid wrestler in Japan. How he feel into what he has became, I don't honestly know! He's a severe case of being watered down to a degree, and he isn't that bad on the microphone, he just has a shit voice, and if anything he sounds more natural than others. On NXT he was quite good on the mic.

Personal opinion, Ted DiBiase is a better wrestler than Zack Ryder. I don't know of anything in-ring related that's impressive, hes had solid matches on Superstars but that's about it.

You might be alone in thinking that DiBiase is better than Ryder. Like I said, if he truly was as talented as you make him out to be, he'd have shown us something by now.

I'm just sayin.

He makes up for it by kissing ugly women. And who doesn't love the Khali roar?

 

[The Dragon Saga]

http://www.youtube.com/user/LongIslandIcedZ

I mean't DiBiase.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

You might be alone in thinking that DiBiase is better than Ryder.

I agree with him. DiBiase is nothing to scream about, but he's at least as talented as Zack Ryder.

 

[D-Man]

You might be alone in thinking that DiBiase is better than Ryder. Like I said, if he truly was as talented as you make him out to be, he'd have shown us something by now.

Come on, this is a totally ignorant statement. I could say the same thing for Ryder. If he's so special, why hasn't HE shown us anything by now?

These guys only go as far as creative will take them. But do you see DiBiase bitching on Twitter or YouTube? He's taking it like a man just like many did before him.

Ryder needs to shut up, do his job, and wait for his turn. It'll happen for him but that's only if he sticks to the formula that's been given to him.

 

[ABMorales787]

http://www.youtube.com/user/LongIslandIcedZ

 

[TSG]

I wouldn't know, I don't even know what the man looks like, lat alone the specifics of his show.

However for the purposes of this discussion I watched an individual episode of Z! True Long Island Story (who says I don't put effort it?) on youtube and came to the following conclusion:

either Zach Rider was attempting to turn face, or he is a complete incompetent with no idea how to work a heel character.

Ryder can play a very competent heel character, and still does on Superstars. It's very hard to do something like what he is doing with his webshow and act like a complete heel, but he still is one, though he is starting to drift into tweener/face territory with his stuff with Cena on RAW. His stuff from ECW and Superstars showcases his heel work better.

Now, before I start with you Nick, you asked me who he was better than, not who was more over, most of the guys I listed are more over than Ryder, because they egt featured on TV while Ryder gets about 5 second every 2 weeks on RAW. And judging by the reactions for them, he is decently over.

Drew's better.

No, he is not, and I have already outlined why in this very thread.

Difference between not having proper competition (small guys), and not being talented. He's better than Ryder, and he's over.

I've already argued why Bourne is better as well.

Crowd reaction says otherwise.

There is that crowd reaction argument again. You didn't ask who is more over. Mute point.

Much, much better in the ring than Ryder, and his last name is DiBiase.

Equal in the ring, and much, much, much more bland. I could care less his last name.

I said "featured." If Otunga were a featured player, like he was 6-9 months ago, I would agree.

He is on TV with Punk just about every week, isn't he?

Punk's bodyguard, and he's a physical monster. No way Ryder should take TV time away from this guy, no matter how terrible he may be.

You just admitted Ryder was better which is what you were asking. Ryan sucks, and Punk really doesn't need a bodyguard.

Maybe.

No. Is.

Fans say otherwise. He's over.

and there is that again.

More talented, but Khali is a monster. That automatically (in Vince's eyes) makes him more important. Not to mention he's a former WHC.

The only argument he has is he draws in India, and I doubt that is a huge argument, plus we have Mahal now.

Big Show is a legend in the wrestling business. Don't kid yourself.

I'll let you have it.

No, he isn't. And that's coming from someone who cannot stand Kofi Kingston.

Maybe not better, but at the point where he could have a feud with Kofi and entertain more than any other mid-card heel except for possibly Ziggler. So yeah, on the same level.

Seriously? Santino is one of the most over guys on the entire roster. Ryder isn't half the natural character Santino is.

Once again, that over argument. I still don't care.

Swagger has proven his worth in the ring. Ryder hasn't.

You're right. Call me when Ryder gets the chance to, you know, actually prove his worth. I'll tell you why I'm right then. I could do it now based on Zack's Superstars and ECW work alone, though, if you would like?

See Swagger. Actually, don't. Ziggler is miles ahead of Ryder, in every aspect of the game.

Yeah Ziggler is better, but no one Ryder can't hang with.

 

[JGlass]

Come on, this is a totally ignorant statement. I could say the same thing for Ryder. If he's so special, why hasn't HE shown us anything by now?

Because he's literally gotten one match on television since the so-called Ryder Revolution has begun. Ted's been wrestling on television for well over a year, and he's shown us absolutely nothing.

These guys only go as far as creative will take them. But do you see DiBiase bitching on Twitter or YouTube? He's taking it like a man just like many did before him.

And look where it's gotten him? Jobbing to Daniel Bryan and Sin Cara while being Cody Rhodes' bitch boy.

Ryder needs to shut up, do his job, and wait for his turn. It'll happen for him but that's only if he sticks to the formula that's been given to him.

I'm sure Zack Ryder knew the risks of making these videos when he started. It was a calculated risk, and while this was a minor setback, it also shows that he has made enough of an impact that Vince is finding out ways to deal with him. While what Vince did was really shitty, I think it's a sign that he wants Ryder to start playing ball WWE style so that they can utilize him.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Sign Guy its hard to debate when you're very clearly an over-the-top Ryder mark. At least JGlass and co are debating the situation, you're simply putting your opinion across and that opinion is as biased as it can possibly be by what you keep responding with.

 

[Gelgarin]

Ryder can play a very competent heel character, and still does on Superstars. It's very hard to do something like what he is doing with his webshow and act like a complete heel, but he still is one, though he is starting to drift into tweener/face territory with his stuff with Cena on RAW. His stuff from ECW and Superstars showcases his heel work better.

He is playing a face in his webshow. In the first episode he is cracking jokes, talking up the fans and offering to send people free merchandise.

He is not supposed to be playing a face, he is supposed to be playing a heel. As such he is either going into business for himself or is glaringly incompetent. Either way doesn't look great for him. I can understand why some people might be pissed at him.

 

[TSG]

Come on, this is a totally ignorant statement. I could say the same thing for Ryder. If he's so special, why hasn't HE shown us anything by now?

I don't know, because he hasn't had a chance to talk to the fans in about a year and a half. And he only gets to wrestle on Superstars, you know, that show on WWE.com that hardly anyone, probably including creative, watches?

While DiBiase was given the mic for weeks on end as a solo star last year and bombed. His highlight was being on Maryse's arm and feuding with Goldust.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Now, before I start with you Nick, you asked me who he was better than, not who was more over, most of the guys I listed are more over than Ryder, because they egt featured on TV while Ryder gets about 5 second every 2 weeks on RAW. And judging by the reactions for them, he is decently over.

I didn't ask YOU anything. I asked Ryder to explain why he should be on television over some of the guys who are currently occupying the mid card.

And no, I don't expect him to answer.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I have to agree with Sign Guy on Dibiase(that tasted awful.) He was given a shot last year, he fucking blew.

 

[X]

He is playing a face in his webshow. In the first episode he is cracking jokes, talking up the fans and offering to send people free merchandise.

He is not supposed to be playing a face, he is supposed to be playing a heel. As such he is either going into business for himself or is glaringly incompetent. Either way doesn't look great for him. I can understand why some people might be pissed at him.

Don't tell me you're one of those people that thinks kayfabe needs to be upheld 24/7 everywhere you go? Zack Ryder can say and do whatever the hell he wants when he's not working for the WWE, including making goofy videos playing whatever face or heel character he wants to.

The business has evolved. People don't need to be slaves to kayfabe anymore, and thank god.

 

[TSG]

Sign Guy its hard to debate when you're very clearly an over-the-top Ryder mark. At least JGlass and co are debating the situation, you're simply putting your opinion across and that opinion is as biased as it can possibly be by what you keep responding with.

You're acting as a DiBiase mark? What is your point? Just because I like someone does not mean I can't debate about him. It's not like I'm flat out screaming "GIVE RYDERZ ALLS TEH TITLEZ1!!!!121!" or something. I'm just saying the guy is good and has plenty of potential. I'm no more biased than you are in this argument towards DiBiase.

He is playing a face in his webshow. In the first episode he is cracking jokes, talking up the fans and offering to send people free merchandise.

He is not supposed to be playing a face, he is supposed to be playing a heel. As such he is either going into business for himself or is glaringly incompetent. Either way doesn't look great for him. I can understand why some people might be pissed at him.

This does not change the fact he still plays a heel in the ring, as in cutting promos downgrading and proceeding to fight fan favorites on Superstars. Sounds like he is still acting heelish to me. If the fans want to cheer him because he is a naturally charismatic guy on his webshow, that is just an example of the fans turning the wrestler, just like they did to Orton last year.

 

[Daniel]

He is playing a face in his webshow. In the first episode he is cracking jokes, talking up the fans and offering to send people free merchandise.

He is not supposed to be playing a face, he is supposed to be playing a heel. As such he is either going into business for himself or is glaringly incompetent. Either way doesn't look great for him. I can understand why some people might be pissed at him.

If they wanted him to stay true to the heel character he's portraying they wouldn't show him being friends with John Cena on Raw. In other words, they wouldn't show him being a face on Raw.

If WWE were dedicated to making sure that heels are heels and faces are faces, they wouldn't allow wrestlers to break kayfabe on Twitter. But they do.

 

[Hazardous]

Here's a interview done with Ryder on what the WWE thinks of his show

Spoiler

How His “Z! True Long Island Story” YouTube Show Came About:

“What happened was that about three months ago I was sick of just not being on TV, sick of just sitting in the background on the sidelines. So I created my opportunity. I created my own Youtube account. My parents got me a Flipcam for Christmas. And I started to make my own shows. And 16 episodes later, more than a million views, it’s starting to pick up… All my days off is basically doing that show. It’s thinking of things and messing around with my friends. They’ll help me film stuff, like the Superstars General Manager—just things to create controversy in a funny, light hearted way… I think I had no creative output before, so they really didn’t know who I was. I had a couple matches here and there, but I never really had a chance to show who I really was, my personality and show how charismatic I was. Now this show has taken off. Guys like John Cena, The Miz, ‘Stone Cold’ Steve Austin, Chris Jericho are all praising me on Twitter and stuff like that. I wrote the bonus forward to Chris Jericho’s book. It’s just unbelievable. I think everyone is starting to notice.”

Whether He’s Gotten Heat From WWE Management For The Show:

“At first, I was afraid too. I thought, ‘Am I going to get in trouble?’ But I’m not trying to cause any problems. I just want to get my name out there and create my own opportunity, and make some money for the company and for myself. Now they’re really getting behind it. Like you said, there are signs every single week. My T-Shirts are selling out, and I’m not even on television. It’s unheard of. So, I think they have to get behind it.… As far as I know, I haven’t been punished. But before I started the Youtube show, I was at the bottom of the card—the bottom. How much worse of a position could I have dropped to, you know? So it had to go up. That was my mind set. I was just sick of being at the bottom, knowing I could be so much more. It was all or nothing, basically.”

Working His Way Up The WWE Ranks:

“I guess I am grateful that I have a job in WWE, but that my plan my whole life. So, it’s kind of expected for me. So I’m not satisfied with my spot on the card. I definitely want to move up. And that’s what I’m going to do. Or at least I’m going to try my best and go out swinging. I’m not going to just sit back and say, ‘Oh, I should have done that,’ or ‘I should have done this.’ When my time comes to an end, I know I’ll have no regrets… I’ve been under contract for five years. I’ve been on television for four. So that’s a pretty long time. So many people come and go in four years. But I have all the time in the world. I’m only 26. I’m one of the youngest guys on the roster. I’m not going to stop until everyone in this world knows who Zack Ryder is.”

If the WWE was mad for anything said on his show, don't you think they would have gone to him and said so? Vince is not usually one to keep quiet about things that bug him. When he was mad at the announcers, they heard about it. When a talent was not performing well, they were told so. Why would Vince stay quiet about this? It's not in his nature

 

[Gelgarin]

Don't tell me you're one of those people that thinks kayfabe needs to be upheld 24/7 everywhere you go? Zack Ryder can say and do whatever the hell he wants when he's not working for the WWE, including making goofy videos playing whatever face or heel character he wants to.

The business has evolved. People don't need to be slaves to kayfabe anymore, and thank god.

When he is playing the character of Zack Ryder (which from a technical standpoint doesn't actually belong to him) to a large international audience then yes, he probably should. If he's going to knowingly and deliberately undermine his own ability to do what the company is paying him to do (draw heat from the audience) then I don't think he can be terribly shocked if somebody gets pissed at him.

Did he deserve what may or may not have happened to him? Almost certainly not, but that doesn't automatically put him in the right.

 

[Muffin Top Merkley]

He is playing a face in his webshow. In the first episode he is cracking jokes, talking up the fans and offering to send people free merchandise.

He is not supposed to be playing a face, he is supposed to be playing a heel. As such he is either going into business for himself or is glaringly incompetent. Either way doesn't look great for him. I can understand why some people might be pissed at him.

The WWE is sending mixed signals. Ryder seems to be a heel on Superstars but a face on Raw, interacting with John Cena.

... Unless he's going into business for himself and jumping into the camera shot, the WWE is putting him there.

 

[TSG]

I didn't ask YOU anything. I asked Ryder to explain why he should be on television over some of the guys who are currently occupying the mid card.

And no, I don't expect him to answer.

Just out of curiosity, who should Ryder be taking TV time away from? I'd love to hear him answer that question. Him calling for a push is obviously telling the creative department they are pushing someone they shouldn't be.

Zack Ryder is not better than any guy featured on Raw/Smackdown.

Oh, and Vince is nuts. Still.

Yeah, you're right. You asked who he should take TV time away from. You then proceeded to state no one is better. So, you might not have specifically asked who was better, but you stated no one was better. I then proceeded to state who was better, regardless of being over. And as I previously said, Ryder isn't as over because he hasn't got the shot on RAW the others have, so it's an irrelevant point until Ryder gets the same shot. If he is better than those other guys, which he is, he should get the shot. When he gets the chance, he will become over. Simple as that. I will freely admit I misread the post originally, but the same logic still applies.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

You're acting as a DiBiase mark? What is your point? Just because I like someone does not mean I can't debate about him. It's not like I'm flat out screaming "GIVE RYDERZ ALLS TEH TITLEZ1!!!!121!" or something. I'm just saying the guy is good and has plenty of potential. I'm no more biased than you are in this argument towards DiBiase.

I'm acting as a DiBiase mark because I'm telling you he's a better wrestler than Ryder?? Dude, stop and back away from the computer. You're really getting into this too much. If I'm a supposed "DiBiase mark", so are the other two people that agreed with me.

If I wanted to, I could post a word fort on why Ryder is this, that or the other. I'm not prepared to waste my time doing that when most people know the facts anyway.

DiBiase blew his chance, fair enough, I said in another thread today he was "worthless." But I remember someone had a chance on this thing called ECW, did he not? I'm almost certain Ryder was pushed as the guy who ended Tommy Dreamer's career. And he ended up doing nothing. So he blew his chance too.

I'm not that bothered whether Ryder gets a push or not. I'm in the middle of him, I don't dislike him or like him, he's to me just some guy with a gimmick and a YouTube channel. Rebecca Black is on YouTube too.

But to keep pointing out that Ryder improved also. Yeah, he did improve - but its hard not to improve when you came into the company being shit to begin with.

 

[TSG]

I'm acting as a DiBiase mark because I'm telling you he's a better wrestler than Ryder?? Dude, stop and back away from the computer. You're really getting into this too much. If I'm a supposed "DiBiase mark", so are the other two people that agreed with me.

I'm doing the exact same thing for Ryder that you are doing for DiBiase, insisting he is a better wrestler. So if you aren't a mark, then I am not.

DiBiase blew his chance, fair enough, I said in another thread today he was "worthless." But I remember someone had a chance on this thing called ECW, did he not? I'm almost certain Ryder was pushed as the guy who ended Tommy Dreamer's career. And he ended up doing nothing. So he blew his chance too.

I've been waiting for this to be brought up. Yeah, it's true. And he actually got pretty good heat for it. He was becoming a very over heel on ECW (not that it matters, no one was really watching the show closely) and was putting on solid-good matches every week. Then ECW ended a month or two later, he was shipped to RAW, and hasn't gotten a fair shot since. When Ryder gets a fair shot (as in mic time, matches, and wins: basically, a push) on a flagship show like Bourne, McIntyre, DiBiase, and others have, and bombs it they did, I'll accept defeat. But while he is still on Superstars and YouTube, doing a whole bunch of nothing after consistently impressing on a show that got canceled, while everyone says he is nothing before he evn gets a fair shot in front of a large audience, I won't quit.

 

[TSG]

I have a non-spam thread in the RAW section called why Zack Ryder is a future star, if you want to continue the debate in an actual non-spam section, let's go. The link is below:

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=163810