Y2J on Punk's Father

[Vanderhook]

I think some of you are missing the point here, when you say that this doesn't fit into the context of their 'best in the world' arguement.

Stuff like this is a part of what makes Jericho 'the best in the world at what he does'. He's gotten inside Punk's head. He's taken the advantage in their war, and he can use this to his advantage. That's all he's doing.

It's totally in context with the theme of the feud, because Jericho as the heel will do whatever he needs to do in order to gain that advantage over Punk. He'll go places that others wouldn't dare go in order to win, and to him, that's what makes him the best in the world at what he does.

I hope you are right, but as of now I'm not sure I can agree with the notion that this new direction with the storyline ties in to the already established storyline of "best in the world". I would love Y2J to tie it in and say exactly what you said.

Don't get me wrong, I *LOVED* this segment. I love CM Punk and I love Jericho even more, but I felt like the storyline was languishing a bit. It wasn't bad per se, just not nearly as good as it could be. While it started out strong, the whole "you're nothing but a wannabe" thing was starting to lose steam and it's just not a solid enough angle to last for two months wrestlemania build.

This new fold makes it very interesting. Finally the snarky sarcastic CM Punk is shaken to his core. The promo was classic scathing heel Jericho and Punk sold the promo masterfully. I was starting to get a little upset about Punk no-selling Jericho's promos, but now it makes sense; it makes this promo all the more important.

As far as the "this goes crosses the line" attitude.. get over yourself. I hate when people get offended FOR other people when they aren't even offended themselves. People like habshater need to get off their high horse

 

[JaylisJayP]

The whole "getting inside Punk's head" explanation is weak. The mentioning of Punk's father is weak.

They threw this in because they knew how thin (as others in this thread have already said) the feud between them is. The fued sucks because they completely screwed up bringing Jericho back. His "reason" for coming back is ridiculous, I'm sorry I haven't bought it for a second. And the back and forth they had a couple weeks ago and this latest "angle" don't add depth, they just expose WWE for trying to shove more context into a failed angle.

Amazing how horribly they botched Jericho's return and this entire feud. It just feels so forced.

 

[WunNightStan619]

Im gonna assume anybody who was offended by Jericho's remarks are probably assume are Cena fans. But anyway, if you found that segment offensive then you either need to stop watching wrestling or stop being a woman. Society is wayyyy to sensitive, its this kind of edginess that wrestling has been missing for the longest. It completely makes sense with the storyline if you're smart enough to understand it. If they are trying to see who the best in the world is, they are naturally always gonna be trying to get the upper hand on each other. By Jericho talking about his father, he's getting in punks head, throwing him off his game. Its all strategy. So if you were offended by what was said, grow up and stop being a little girl

 

[willross]

This feud needed this. This is Jericho trying to psych out Punk. Being the "best in the world" is not just about what goes on in between the bells, it is about what u do before and after the match.

This is Jericho proving he is the best in the world at playing mind games, winning the match before it starts. Very good psychology and brought enough "shoot" to get even a couple people thinking that this was a unscripted low blow.

We all know better but we must remember that about 50% of the audience doesn't, so this is an aspect of this feud that is designed to appeal to them, not us. The match itself, that we have asked for is enough for us, but this gives the drama addicts the fix they need in this feud.

Was it necessary, probably not but there is still a couple weeks left for them to keep building. Don't judge until the destination is reached.

 

[Vintage]

If Vince thought it would take away from the other two matches you would be seeing less of Punk/Jericho not more.

The build up and the mic work of this feud have been phenomenal. Jericho making it personal makes perfect sense. He can't get the best of Punk on the mic so he digs into his closet. It's the next logical step of any good heel. Jericho is supposed to be demented.



Aww, poor little TNA fanboy got butt hurt. How cute.....

Let me know when TNA actually generates a buy rate.

You sound like a dumb mark calling someone a fanboy as a comeback.
You then prove it by taking a shot at TNA's buyrates thinking somehow I'd care.

Here's something that actually has something to do with the discussion. When does Punk stop rehashing his own storylies and do something new?
Here's another, why did the person I quote think that this didn't belong on WWE TV when you obviously do? Now you have a reason to talk about TNA and not sound stupid

 

[Rick Rudes Mustache]

Listen kids...this IS wrestling 101. Punk & Jericho are teaching a clinic to the guys in the back not named HHH, Undertaker, etc. Old school wrestling, WWF, WWWF (look it up newbies, there was a pre-wwf) NWA, AWA, JCP, UWF used story lines like this all the time. It brought the crowd in to hate the heel more. Back in the day when the internet & TV were scare with wrestling content the Heel had only 3/4 shows to garner heat. So he would bring up personal issues about the Face. Family ties, acts of personality etc. to garner the hate he & the face needed to grow support for the match.

For anyone to say they were close to turning off the TV or changing the channel I would have HATED to hear what you thought about the Kane/Katie Vick/HHH storyline. This is Pro Wrestling ppl. This is the male answer to the daytime soap's our mothers/wives/sisters watch. There needs to every now and then be juice with the steak.

Jericho & Punk are amazing. Both highly skilled at what they do. Both arguably the best in the world at telling a story inside a ring. Agree or not, hate it or not - your talking about it. Your angry with it or love it. You want Punk to answer now. The whole point of this is to capture the fan who watches not for the in-ring work but for the soap-opera'ish work that is the WWE.

 

[The Eighties]

The fact it wasn't signposted by a dozen promotional ads during Raw made the promo all that more effective. It's interesting to note that since becoming a top guy in WWE, during recent interviews Punk has not mentioned his father when discussing being Straight edge, whether this was on purpose as WWE/Punk suspect most WWE fans wont know about the ROH stuff and thus it can be used as a surprise revelation by a heel, who knows.

At the end of the day I saw it in storyline terms as simply a smart psychological move by the heel in order to throw the face off his game, because even though Jericho claims the best in the world he actually lost a lot of the time, so him gaining and edge over a guy who is beating everyone, by screwing with his head, adds an extra layer.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I have to agree as well that Jericho's promo came out of left field. There was no mention of Punk's family or straight edge during this whole time. It was mainly about Punk being a Jericho wannabe and who is really the best in the world. It just seems odd they would bring this up now even though Punk and Raven did this in 03.

I guess they are trying to add more intensity to the feud or make Jericho a bigger heel since the feud has been kinda lackluster and fans are still cheering Jericho. I don't know if it is appropriate but hopefully it won't be in bad taste. The feud definitely needed a spark to it because these two are great on the mic and will probably have a great match at Mania, but there needs to be something more personal to kick off this feud.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

As big fans of both CM Punk and Jericho, it hurts to admit the fued between these two is so THIN.

The very beginning of the premise was Jericho returned because someone else called himself "best in the world". It's not very dramatic, and it is not captivating no matter how you spin it.

Now they have to stretch out a fued (for the WWE championship, no less) over 2 months over a "statement".

So the WWE, lets Jericho up the ante, and "get personal" with CM Punk and claim the alcoholic father.

The only problem is, I don't think anyone in the world believes CM Punk will ever drink. So this is idea, is just as THIN, as the original premise.

There is nowhere to go with this fued other than to make it cheesy. What do you have, vignettes of CM Punk sitting in a bar, with a beer in front of him... contemplating what Jericho said? Jericho coming to the ring next week with a beer and CM Punk becomes "torn" about the decision.

Everything we know about Punk in-character and out-of-character is that his beliefs, will, and actions are straight-edge.... so there is no suspension of belief in this angle.

I just have not been given a single reason why i should feel care why these two are fighting.

It's poor planning. poor writing. poor execution. and i don't think the creative side can be saved going into WrestleMania. And that seriously hurts a techincal match when the fans don't feel an emotional connection.

Thats why i think the match is even going to fall flat.

Couldn't disagree more. There is more to this fued then who is the best in the world.

To me the main point of this fued is that we have two guys who are not your prototypical wwe superstars, but are at the top of the ladder. This is a fued about two guys who worked their way up from nearly a decade's worth of mid card status to become the best the company has. Each man has the same claim and as such the right to call themselves the best in the world.

The match at mania is more then just about whoes the best. It is about who's long journey towards the top is cemented with a wwe title victory at the grandest stage.

 

[Iversen]

I don't know if anyone's said it and I can't be bothered reading the whole way through but it's not the first time Punks allowed his father to be used in storyline. His feud with Raven back in ROH was along the same lines although in that it was Punk that was the aggressor. In that sense it's obvious it doesn't bother Punk. As someone who has an alcoholic parent I don't see a problem with it. It's not the big taboo quite a lot of people seem to think it is and as long as Punk is happy to talk about it let it happen.

I do kind of agree that it seems to go against Punk and Jericho saying this was all about the title. However it does make sense to a certain extent. It's mind games from Jericho and it makes the feud a lot more personal, something that I never really see as a problem. If they keep this build up going at the rate it is it's going to be very believable that Punk and Jericho want to kill each other at Mania. That isn't a bad thing.

 

[Jdulemba1001]

If you want to make this feud personal, then this was the way to do it. I agree it came out of left field, but the feud needed more. Many people who are straight edge became that way because of a bad experience with alcohol or drugs, and not wanted to go down that road. This line of thinking was good by Punk and jericho.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

Do I have a problem with them taking this route? No... because, apparently, Punk and Jericho don't.

This feud needed a spark. Making things more personal gives it more importance and more immediacy heading into WM. Is Punk's father really an alcoholic? Is that why he really does live a straight-edge lifestyle and speaks on the evils of alcohol and drugs? Now people really are wondering if it's true, and how Punk will respond. The villain challenges the hero by getting personal. Punk also sold it very well with his reaction and the walkout. Very psychological. Mission accomplished.

Last night's actions do a few things - they vilify Jericho more than he has been since his return (he needed something to really define him as a heel, because people will still cheer him regardless). They also erase the laissez faire attitude Punk has had toward Jericho in this feud. It also shows people that Jericho is not just here on a fly-by-night to put Punk over and then go back to being a rock star (even though we know he will be gone sometime soon b/c Fozzy is playing Sonisphere).

I'm a fan of both guys' work in and out of the ring, and I think this just makes that feud more interesting. Plus, I don't think Punk would have taken part in last night's actions if he didn't want to admit that info, if it is true. So it's either a total work... or Punk's ok with very personal info being used to further a feud.

Actually, I'm glad to see this. Taking this avenue on the feud, combined with Rock and Cena firing curse word volleys at each other each week, means that WWE seems to be.. temporarily, at least ... loosening the PG-13 vibe on Raw. The show's named RAW for a reason!

I'm curious to see the direction feuds like these send the WWE post-WM.

If it were more then just a loosening of the PG rating and a return to RAW and the attitude era, Jericho would win the match and as a result we would see packages where Punk would spend monday nights at bars in the city where RAW is at and he would look visibly impaired. It would get worse and worse and lead in either one of two directions.

1) Some face on the roster gets him to clean his act and return to his main event status and defeat Jericho in a title rematch.

2) If it were the end of Punk's push then he would have him embrace his new lifestyle and build some sort of mid card program with him wrestling matches drunk.

 

[bringbackbeavercleaver]

The issue i have with this match,is that there is a huge prop in the middle of all this there to aid and push this feud along,that is amazingly vanishing into the background;its the wwe championship.The Belt should be the only thing worth winning this wrestlemania as with any mania,but instead they push some alcoholic father?beat in the world tripe at us which isnt gonna stick.CM Punk and Chris Jericho should be a great contest,wwe just needs to keep it simple and push the belt and making winning it at wm the most important thing.

 

[Notorious718]

I didn't really have problems with Jericho's promo last night. I guess, to some extent, I can understand why it was done. In all honesty, the build for this match has been pretty lackluster so far but at the same time I don't think Punk's personal family issues had to be brought up in order to make the feud sell. In fact, I think that Jericho shouldn't have brought up Punk's father until after Wrestlemania because I highly doubt the feud is going to end at Wrestlemania. I always thought that their feud going into the big PPV should strictly be about who is the best in the world and the WWE Championship. Adding this element does add drama and a new dimension in this angle but I also feel it's not really necessary at this time. The match at Wrestlemania should strictly be about the WWE title. Save the family drama for another time.

 

[Mr. HD]

I think the Jericho promo was great.

Let's be honest, how long could they milk this Best in the World shtick all the way to WrestleMania? They needed a little something extra to give that oomf and really take this feud to a whole other level. This feud now has another layer of depth added to it heading into WrestleMania which works for me. It's gone from being The Best in the World to a personal conflict, which makes this match a lot more interesting than what it once was.

This reminds me of something DDP said when he debuted with that stalker gimmick against The Undertaker. He said the only way to make an impact is to go after the biggest dog in the "yard" so to speak. And I quote:

"Once you find that dog, if you wanna get the very "Best" of him, you make it personal."

 

[ThisIsLCS]

I didnt know if it was True or not at the time, But whatever the case was it was actually kinda hard to watch. CM Punk is either one HELL of an Actor or was incredibly Hurt from what Y2J was saying.

I could barely watch it honestly.

 

[Slash-LN]

It was a little uncomfortable to watch. However I think that was due to my own issues with alcohol and knowing how difficult it is not to drink.
I however don't think it was any worse than Jerry Lawler vs Jake Roberts where Lawler pourd "alcohhol" down Jake's throat at a ppv.
I agree with the people who said it was needed to be done in order for CM Punk to take the feud more seriously.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

Let's be honest, how long could they milk this Best in the World shtick all the way to WrestleMania? They needed a little something extra to give that oomf and really take this feud to a whole other level.

Pretty much what I was going to say, then again elaboration never hurts.

I don't think that by any means what happened last night was "tasteless" as many would think at their gut reaction. Then again I don't find usually anything in pro wrestling tasteless. Heck kids with parents trapped into the void that is alcoholism could be influenced by Punks decision that Jericho explained last night. That out of the way, the "Best in the world" program was going along quite well, but I don't think they could have run it all the way to Wrestlemania. Bringing in Punk's past into this refreshed the feud that since their promo 2 weeks ago had been loosing steam. I can only watch so many promos about being the best in the world and these 2 did well but it had to be put aside for something as good as this.

I look forward to Punk's response next week, it should be one hell of one whether it be through promo, action, or both.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't see why anyone's uncomfortable with it. It was no more tasteless than Punk mocking Hardy's drug problems during their feud, which is often looked back upon is considered one of the greatest feuds of the decade. Punk mocking Hardy added a very personal edge to their matches and helped establish Punk as someone to pay attention to on the microphone.

If Jericho had done some sort of skit in which he mocked Punk's father, if he'd been staggering around with an empty bottle of Jack Daniels and slurring his words, then I could understand the discomfort. Jericho, however, didn't do any of that. Because Punk didn't do something of an impersonation of Hardy during their feud, I've got no problem. Punk didn't make light of what's been a serious problem for Hardy. Like a lot of people, his character looked down his nose at someone who'd had struggles with drugs in his life. Jericho did the exact same thing while talking to Punk by saying that the same weakness that afflicted his father is in his blood as well. Again, I see nothing to be insulted or upset about. There are many things that the WWE could have done with this that completely pissed all over any sense of dignity & class. Fortunately, they didn't go with any of them. Punk's sadness is probably genuine, since I believe I've read in the past that his father was an alcoholic, and not only adds a very grounded sense of realism to this but made Punk a very sympathetic person. Punk's usually the smart mouthed, sarcastic rebel that nothing bothers but he came off as very human and a lot of people could empathize with what he felt and could be feeling.

TNA has been doing something a little similar with Jesse Sorensen's injury. They haven't had Zema Ion parading around bragging about how he nearly paralyzed someone. He's portrayed as acting uncaring and nonchalant, but they're not doing crash tv segments in which Ion is going out there and glorifying what happened. They're using his general nonchalant attitude towards the situation to build heat on Ion. WWE did virtually the same thing with Jericho. He came across as a total creep without making light of a very real condition that affects millions of people.

As for this angle coming out of left field...so what? If it adds another layer to their feud and jacks up the intensity, then where's the problem? Again, I think this is an example of some fans not truly liking the unexpected no matter how much they might complain about WWE being too predictable.

 

[Huey]

I appear to be in the minority here but CM Punk's dad's alcoholism, punk's straight edge history, all that is news to me. Most people know an alcoholic that didn't do a great job raising their child. Someone in your family, a childhood friend's dad, your neighbor growing up. Y2J didn't call his dad a cross dressing preoperative transexual (leave that for the rock and cena feud). This is something that people can relate to, it's somewhat familiar and common. In an "era" of realism this is pretty realistic.

I wish Jericho's delivery was different. I would have preferred a quieter more nonchalant delivery than the excited I found something out thing. Or even more excited and laughing about it.

CM Punk sold the heck out of it. I can't wait to see what they do next. I'd really like to see something similar to HHH/Punk at the comic book convention. Punk ambushes jericho backstage at a talk show or in the parking lot of some music venue.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

The way this storyline has gone is complete horseshit. I've never been a fan of dragging a wrestlers personal life just to get cheap heat for the heal and this in particular annoyed me due to my personal experience with Alcohol.

On top of that Jericho was getting plenty of heat on his own and this turn in the storyline was 100% unnecessary. I said it in the LD last night and I'll say it again. The storyline was perfect with them wanting to know who the real Best in the World is on top of being for the WWE title.

I was excited for 2 of my favorites fighting for the title at WrestleMania but now not so much. I'm sure it will be a great match but it's just about revenge now and for me it's meh

 

[XXJJ]

I didn't like the segment. It did feel like it came out of left field. I dont think going in this direction was needed. Their feud to this point was built on basically who is the better wrestler.

Their is a part of me that feels they went in this direction because of HIAC and Rock/Cena. Those two matches have been getting most of the attention. I wouldn't be surprised if they did something like this to try to get more attention on them.

They made Punk look like a sympathetic figure. Which will get the crowd to feel sorry for him and get behind him more. I just dont think this was the right time or feud to do something like this.

 

[Pedigree1]

Personally, I hated the segment last night between CM Punk and Chris Jericho. It was the closest I have come to changing the station or turning the television off altogether due to my displeasure with a segment in a really long time. It was in poor taste, it was totally unnecessary, and in fact cheapens the development of the feud between the two guys which was otherwise progressing nicely without nonsense of this nature.

Look, I understand the concept of kayfabe. I get the idea of blurring the lines between kayfabe and reality to enhance feuds and inject emotion into feuds. And I understand that this all happens in a pre scripted manner with the knowledge and consent of the participants. Nothing new here. But just because it has happened before, and just because the guys are OK with it, doesn't make it right. I don't watch ROH, never have and probably never will. The fact that Punk used some of this extraneous nonsense previously in ROH doesn't make me like it now. Just because Lawler had no problem referencing his mother doesn't make it any more appealing to me. So even if Punk is totally on board with this stuff, I didn't like it and find it an unnecessary and unappealing distraction from an otherwise quality feud for the biggest prize in the biggest company, and for the bragging rights to the moniker of "the best in the world".

If it is not based in truth, and Punk's father is not an alcoholic, it is disrespectful to the families of people who are struggling with alcoholism in their daily lives. If it is true, even more so. And the suggestion that Y2J wants to beat him so badly that he'll turn Punk into an alcoholic in the process is pretty cheap. I've never liked the fact that Punk being straight edge tends to be portrayed negatively at times. And I certainly didn't like anything about that segment last night.

Come on, WWE, the WM28 card is super stacked and should be off the charts. You have the third most interesting matchup (for most) involving two excellent superstars, vying for the top prize in the largest pro wrestling organization in the world, not to mention the bragging rights for the claim of being the best in the world. Don't cheapen it and detract from it with low budget nonsense like this. That belongs on another night, on another station, in another organization altogether.

Very good points you bring up but up until last night punk was not taking this seriously!! Yes it was a shocker for Y2J to bring up the fact about punks father it was. Here in this feud you have argubably the two finest athletes in the business today. Mic work,wrestling ability,and just overrall attributes. Now this feud can truly be good vs evil. I have no problem with punk being Straight Edge he has drug free tattooed across his knuckles. Punk had to be ok with this particular angle last night did i agree with it kinda yes kinda no.

As folks have already stated punk did the same thing with hardy throwing his faults in his face night after night!! The angle last night kinda felt a little uneasy but i dont see punk turning into an alcoholic anytime soon!! IMO WWE being a PG show has sure pushed the envelope lately!! WM28 is super stacked and i for one cant wait especially for punk v jericho

 

[oldschool6804]

when people who have no insight into wrestling say trust me punk agreed to the comments jehrico made that is very presumptuous, you people assume that it was preplanned , key word you assume it's ana ngle but what if jehrico did that? I COULD SEE MCMAHON NOT TELLING PUNK AHEAD OF TIME IT HAPPENS IT'S NOT ALL SCRIPTED CONTRARY TO POPULAR OPINION.

 

[CMPunkBestIntheWorld]

Wow this was uncomfortable to watch. You just know when feuds get this personal its only going to get worse. CM Punk did act out the reaction very well though and Jericho delivered it well too. It certainly keeps you gripped for what will happen next week