WWE Mount Rushmore?

I respect that it's your opinion but you can't argue the facts....


1.Holds the record of drawing most major shows with 10,000+ attendance on top in one calendar year.[Broke Hogan's(1986) and Austin's(1998) record in 1999 and set a record of headlining over 100 shows with 10,000 plus people in attendance in year 2000.

2.Holds the record of main-eventing almost 17 PPVs that have got over 500k buys(again,a feat of inimitable drawing power that is unmatched by anyone in pro-wrestling history)

3.Drew the highest cable ratings during the AE.

4.Sold more merchandise than anyone active between mid 1999-2001.

I'm not ignoring the facts, but you surely do seem to be ignoring the context. The Rock built off what Stone Cold created. If you want to assume that all of those fans would have been there if Stone Cold hadn't brought them to begin with, that's fine and I have no evidence against that. However, you should understand that it's purely speculative, whereas the fact that most of them started marking out while Stone Cold was headlining isn't.

I find it odd that you bring up the attitude era in favor of The Rock. He was definitely an entertaining component of it, and he was one of the major names that should be named to define it. However, he won't be the first name on that list. Stone Cold and the NWO brought most of those fans in to their respective companies, and while HHH, The Rock, Jericho, Sting, Goldberg, and others were entertaining during that period, they were secondary main-eventers, much like Daniel Bryan and Orton are to Cena currently.

Like someone mentioned earlier, if The Rock stuck it out with the business for a couple more years after Stone Cold was out for good, he might have been able escape his shadow to create a spot for himself on the Mt Rushmore of the WWE (trying to bring this back to the main topic). But he didn't. Fortunately for him, he chose instead to make a much better life for himself in a different form of entertainment, and one meaningless consequence is that there are at least 8-15 wresters who have meant more to the WWE than him. That's totally fine! He's still an elite performer who entertained crowds for years, and I'm sure he has no trouble sleeping at night due to a couple handful of people being better professional wrestlers than him.
 
I'm done debating this topic after this. Some people ignore the facts of money making ability such as ppv buys and merch (which means their popularity) as well as ratings and they dispute them with opinions. "Rock got those better numbers than Austin because Austin got those fans there" is so ridiculous. If the Rocks character was evolved at the time Austin's was (Austin was older and had more experience at the time) then who's to say that Rock wouldn't have done the same? ESPECIALLY with the likes of Bret, HBK, Taker etc to headline Mania and SS's with. Oh and Mike Tyson and a program much like Austin had with Vince? See I can make an opinion too an pass it off as a legit point instead of using facts. It is partially subjective, but you need facts to back your statements.

The guy who is comparing the presidents to wrestlers...I get your point, and I respect it if you wanna make that comparison. Leaving the Rock off THAT type of list is fine, but the rest here are mainly just making a "top 4 all time" list and leaving Rock off that is nuts...ESPECIALLY calling him a top 8-15 wrestler. That's ridiculous.

To the guy comparing Andre to the Rock. There's no changing your mind the same as there's no changing mine. You admit there's no way to compare the two because it was a different time period, therefore it's pointless. But to say that Andre was a better in ring performer and entertainer than THE ROCK has me almost speechless. Andre was literally a freak athlete because of his size...that's why he drew crowds, much like a carnival would for the wonders of the world people.

To the guy saying Vince was a performer and should be on here....if you think he deserves to be there over the Rock then I truly don't know what to tell you.

Bottom line, like I've said 1000 times....Austin with Vince helped to turn the tide by taking away viewers from Wcw...please stop ignoring how Rock took it to the main stream and got casual fans and non-fans to START watching which was evident at the time seeing as how there was a HUGE buzz in the main stream media about him because he was entertaining and funny (SNL skits, movie deals etc)...Austin was an ass kicker and it was great in the wrestling world but people who weren't watching wrestling at all didn't tune in to see that...they came from watching Wcw's product which is evident by the tipping of the scale. If Wcw's numbers stayed the same and WWFs increased then that would show that he tapped into the mainstream and brought in NEW fans, but it didn't. When Rock broke out, then the numbers started to build bigtime in ratings (reflecting new fans tuning in) as well as PPV's, and merch. Stop ignoring that.

To compare Rock to DB or Orton with Austin as Cena is stupid. Your compliments are so ...like ...condescending lol. "He's a great entertainer and fantastic performer and I definitely put him in the top 8-15". Not sure if that qualifies as passive aggressive but damn it seems like it. A compliment with an insult. Unbelievable. "The Rock as top 8-15 but Austin is top 4." I rest my case lol.
 
I'm not ignoring the facts, but you surely do seem to be ignoring the context. The Rock built off what Stone Cold created.

What SC created? :lmao: yeah sure ;)

Austin wouldn't be half the star he was if it wasn't for Vince McMahon's heel persona.

They brought Austin a monster truck, beer truck, cement truck, Mike Tyson, everything to make him mainstream lmao.

Rock only needed a microphone and he became the best ever.


If you want to assume that all of those fans would have been there if Stone Cold hadn't brought them to begin with

Austin brought them? Hahahaha.

Who took part in the highest rated segment in RAW history? The Rock!!

Hahaha logic and facts aren't your friends.


Highest rated segment: The Rock this is your life 8.4.

At the same night, Austin took part in a segment with Vinnie Mac which drew a 6.6 meaning around 3 million people watched The Rock's segment but didn't watch Austin's segment.

I guess Austin brought them as well? Hahahaha gtfo out of here, nonsensical jabroni.



they were secondary main-eventers, much like Daniel Bryan and Orton are to Cena currently.

Hahahaha. Delusional troll. Shoo shoo troll.

Austin is like Cena now? Hahaha yeah ok.

Austin was barely number 1 for a very short period of time, he spend most of his time on top in the hospital and out with injuries lmao.

Austin-Rock were on top, certainly not Austin alone.



there are at least 8-15 wresters who have meant more to the WWE than him. That's totally fine! He's still an elite performer who entertained crowds for years, and I'm sure he has no trouble sleeping at night due to a couple handful of people being better professional wrestlers than him.


Hahaha Grrrr Grrr passive agressive troll. You're one funny boy.
 
Wow, there simply is no discussing with some people on this site. I'd like to suggest that a couple of you stop being so defensive when no one is going on the attack. The whole world isn't out to get you just because one or two people in an online forum disagree with you.

To say The Rock is 8-15 in an industry that has literally had THOUSANDS of performers is astonishing, and I'm really not sure why you would take that as a knock on him. I'm saying he has accomplished more in the industry than everyone who is currently in it other than maybe 3-5 guys. Like I've said numerous times, I thought he was hilarious and wildly entertaining when I was a kid, so I'm not trying to diminish his role. To say he wasn't as big as Stone Cold is like saying Patrick Ewing wasn't as good as Jordan. Ewing is still a fantastic player and a HoFer, just as The Rock deserves to be first ballot in the HoF. But there have been lots of HoF recipients, and he just doesn't crack the top 4 in my opinion.

In fact, looking back, there was so much talent when he was wrestling that I thought he was barely in the top 4 in his own era, alongside Taker, Austin, Jericho, HHH, and so many other people competing for 2-4. If a guy isn't undisputedly head and shoulders above the rest of his competition his time while other performers were, I have trouble with the idea of putting him on a top 4 list. That's the same reason I wouldn't put Punk, Orton, Henry, or Daniel Bryan in there, even though I think they are crazily talented as well.

Again, that's just my opinion on the matter, which is the whole purpose of this thread. You guys don't have to freak out if you disagree with me. I don't want one of you to have a stroke or something.
 
If we are talking about who I think should be on my MT. Rushmore without any bias or just not my personal Mt Rushmore.

I'd say Bruno- without him Capital City Wrestling never becomes Titan, Vince may have never had the capital to go nation wide and eventually world wide. Help the WWWF title for like seven years and dominated the world of professional wrestling. There was even a time when WWWF and the NWA thought of merging and having Bruno become their world champion based on his popularity alone. In his age he was hulk hogan. It's sad to see that the dude never got his chance to do what he could've done on a national stage.

Andre- Without a doubt deserving. View as a God by some, he was big time before wrestling was big time. People outside of the wrestling world knew who he was and he helped build Vince's empire. Again when Andre was given a chance he shelled out for the WWE. The only guy that anyone thought could keep hogan from the world title. Andre was an international star and to this day people who don't watch wrestling know who Andre is. Mainstream in commercials, TV, and movies. A legend in every way. A cornerstone of the WWE

Hulk Hogan- Yeah I've said it before, I'll say it again Hulk Hogan is the MJ of professional wrestling. Not always the most talented guy in the back but he was amazing at bringing in numbers that were never seen before. People came out in droves to see him but not only that but people liked and wanted to hang out with Hogan. Hogan was THE star, for most of his career. No one else match or came close.

Rock/Austin/Vince- It depends on what kind of list you are making. Austin made the biggest impact in the shortest time (you can't argue that much) sold the most merch... and was in the top feud of the AE. Rock was amazing in his own right. Box office to a tee, great overall and one of the best ever, and he lead the WWE to it's most successful year ever.

Vince- He's the genius, he's the all time control of his world. On and off camera did more for wrestling than any promoter/owner ever. Vince honestly deserves a MT. Rushmore of his own. Vince the promoter, Vince the Commentator, Vince the CEO, and Vince the character. I mean if you don't want to put vince on there because he's the owner I see your point. But I don't see how you can complain about anyone including him, he's the reason for MT Rushmore even being a thought.

That said I've gone with Bruno, Andre, Hogan, and Vince, and if you don't like the Vince pick alternate Austin/Rock in and out of that spot.
 
Education time for idiots;
What bs did I say about the presidents? I gave reasons why they were on Mt. Rushmore, reasons that are what MADE them the greatest presidents and lead to their being the ones chosen for the monument. Go read a history book or search listverse . com or cracked . com and read up on how awesome and badass Teddy Rosevelt was and tell me I made up the shit I wrote about him. Crack open a book and read about Lincoln and the Civil War and his emancipation proclaimation. Jefferson is one of the creators and authors of declaration of Independance and Washington was the first officially recognised president of the United States so what did I bullshit about?

Taker wasn't the top guy? He never needed to be the top guy. He was the guy the top guy had to be able to beat to become the top guy. None of the guys idiots like you bring up would have amounted to jack shit without Taker being there standing in their way. He carried the company on his back and did everything that was required of him. Feuds with him are what made careers for Rock, Austin, Foley. Even HBK and Bret would likely have struggled as the top guy if they didn't have someone with the skill and durability of Taker to face off against. He not only could match any of them in the ring, but as any wrestler who was there at the time would tell he, he helped keep the locker room together and make sure that people knew their roles and performed without the kind of drama that infected the mid 90's prior to the Screwjob. You say I hate on the rock and to stop? Yet you turn around and dismiss a 20+ year veteran who's been held up against the best and beaten all of them on the biggest stage of them all.
Impact over loyalty?
Taker was the bridge between Era's. he took the role of the big man and redifined it from slow, lumbering brute and made it possible for larger performers to show that they too could compete in terms of both technical skillsets and flashy, spot strewn matches. Before him, the standard was guys like Andre and Big John Studd. Massive men who were not exactly known for climbing the ropes (or even running the ropes) but for standing in the middle of the ring and just overpowering anyone put in front of them with minimal effort or selling on their part. Without Taker, guys in his size range like Kane, Batista, Lesnar, and so many others would not have been shown the confidence to let them do the high risk moves as conventional wisdom prior to taker was to keep anyone over 6'6" on their feet and moving methodically while showcasing their power and size. Kane would never have leapt from the top for a clothesline without guys like Taker and LOD doing it first. Big show would never have done dropkicks or spears. Lesnar would certainly never have been allowed to try shit like the shooting star press if Taker hadn't proven that larger athletes could be just as agile and aerially talented as the lighter roster fillers.
So yeah I think Taker deserves a spot on any WWE or even Wrestling Mt Rushmore because he redefined what it meant to be a big man in this business. And that more then even his streak earns him a spot on the Mountain top.

As for your comments about me. I'm 34 years old and have been watching wrestling for 30 years now. I've watched Mark Calloway matches for oh, somthing like 26-27 years, from the time he was in the territories wrestling as Master of Pain to his time as Mean Mark Callous in wcw as the replacement member in the under rated and often forgotten team of SkyScrappers to his debut at the survivor series. From the first time he stepped foot in the ring at that PPV, I've tried to watch every one of his matches. I've watched the world of wrestling evolve around him and still he remained at the center of the WWE. He, like Andre before him, was bigger then the Championship. He held it when needed, but honestly, by the time guys like Rock and Austin really hit it big, he had grown beyond the belt. He was an event in and of himself.

The only nonsense is the shit you spouted. Bret was a fantastic in ring preformer, and a legend of the sport, but he had far less impact on others and therefore doesn't deserve a spot. As for HBK, the guy was a primadonna ass who let's face it, took over from Bret during the lean years of 93 to 96. And it was the combined efforts of Bret, HBK, and Taker who allowed the company to stay affloat during those years with the next group of Yoko, Nash, and others. HBK was unlike Bret not a great Technician, but he was a spot monkey of the time and could sell like no one else. But this love and reverence people have of him now is insane. He was the face of the company at a time when the company almost went out of business. It took guys like Austin and Rock breaking out and the turn to more hardcore style with Foley and a huge bit of luck and VINCE's capatalising on it to allow WWE to first save themselves and then explode into the surviving company. None of which over all was done by HBK. Great in ring performer, but backstage issues and attitude, as well as weak competition and unwillingess to work well with others made him a disaster as the face of the company.

This is such nonsense, I don't know why I'm even bothering to reply. Taker never made anybody's career, he helped Foley and Brock but that's about it. Austin, HBK, and Bret were already the top guys before they had feuds with Taker. The Rock was a huge star before his feud with Taker, and was number 2 in the company. You are speaking nonsense guy. Vince made Austin and thats a fact, their feud is regarded as the greatest rivalry of all time yet you say that Taker made Austin lmao. Austin made Rock, Bret made HBK, and nobody really made Bret's career he kinda just made it on his own because the roster was so bad at the time. Taker is pretty much HHH but with the streak. They were the guys that fought the top guys. Taker had a versatile character so it was easy for him to be put in many different angles. Taker without the streak is pretty much irrelevant. He would be a hall of fame either way but people really didn't start calling him an all time great til the streak started getting acknowledged. Takers first decade in WWE was lackluster with very few good matches. Hell the match he was most know for for the majority of his career consisted of him just standing around while Mick Foley nearly kills himself. I love Taker, but to be honest, he was a slightly above average wrestler for the majority of his career. I think that you are blinded by your love for Taker. I don't give a damn what he did in the locker room or how long he's been around. This honor should be because of impact and it is VERY hard to make reasonable, logical, and acceptable argument that he has had a greater impact that Austin, Rock, Hogan, Andre, Vince, HBK. Your argument imo, sounds like some bs that someone that has posters of Undertaker all over his walls would say. Plus the fact that you used his real name shows that you are a serious biased Taker fan boy and doesn't help your argument at all. And HBK a spot monkey??? Are u fucking ******ed? O btw Big Show did dropkicks because Andre did dropkicks...u know the guy that he stole his entire gimmick from when he was in wcw...u obviously dont have any clue what you are talking about.

One last thing, your argument is completey stupid because you penalize HBK for being a bad face of the company, but award a guy for never even reaching that top spot. So by your logic, its better to never be the main guy at all than to be the main guy and struggle???? um NO!!!
 
The Undertaker >>>>>

Learn it; Love it; Live with it!


This is crazy, first of no he isn't. Taker's name doesn't even come up when you say attitude era unless you go DEEP into the pool. And the ruthless aggression era? Still his name doesn't come up until you go DEEP into the roster. You can argue it but Taker isn't mainstream. He has one thing going for him and that's the streak.

That said I'm not saying that Taker is bad or isn't one of the best. It's just he doesn't come close to Mt. Rushmore status. Austin, Rock, Bruno, Andre, Hogan. You can't even argue that those guys aren't bigger than Taker. I'm sorry you feel differently, I'm sorry you think Taker is the best somehow but he's never been close.
 
This is crazy, first of no he isn't. Taker's name doesn't even come up when you say attitude era unless you go DEEP into the pool. And the ruthless aggression era? Still his name doesn't come up until you go DEEP into the roster. You can argue it but Taker isn't mainstream. He has one thing going for him and that's the streak.

That said I'm not saying that Taker is bad or isn't one of the best. It's just he doesn't come close to Mt. Rushmore status. Austin, Rock, Bruno, Andre, Hogan. You can't even argue that those guys aren't bigger than Taker. I'm sorry you feel differently, I'm sorry you think Taker is the best somehow but he's never been close.

You claim Taker isn't mainstream, but then turn around and mention Bruno & Austin ???? Ummmm....ok :lmao:
 
You claim Taker isn't mainstream, but then turn around and mention Bruno & Austin ???? Ummmm....ok :lmao:

First off Bruno outsold Ali at an event. Everyone knew who bruno was even if the world was regional. SO big that the NWA and WWWF almost merged because of his popularity and so both could use him. Austin has been on tv, radio, movies, yeah he's bigger than taker ever was. You want to cherry pick ideas at least use ones that work.
 
First off Bruno outsold Ali at an event. Everyone knew who bruno was even if the world was regional. SO big that the NWA and WWWF almost merged because of his popularity and so both could use him. Austin has been on tv, radio, movies, yeah he's bigger than taker ever was. You want to cherry pick ideas at least use ones that work.

Wrestling was regional back then as far as Bruno goes.

The Undertaker has been on tv, radio, & movies as well. Don't sit here and try convincing yourself Austin is some type of household name when you know deep down inside that he's not.

You want to cherry pick ideas - at least use ones that work!
 
John cena would be no where near the mount rushmore of wrestling. It's a classic case of "if you hear it enough you'll believe it." WWE has been feeding us that shit about him being one of the greatest of all time for years, that doesn't make it true. Same for HHH.

First would be Andre the Giant. He made wrestling a spectacle and made it a sport for more than just fat rednecks. He set the standard for Hogan

Second would be Hogan. I'm not a fan but he is the most definitive wrestler in history. I have met people who have never watched wrestling a day in their life but know who he is.

Third would be Stone Cold. The popularity he acheived was unprecedented. Contrary to the lies you may hear, Hogan was not universally loved. Only casual fans liked him. Everyone else either liked Randy Savage or watched NWA. Meanwhile Austin garnered universal acclaim. Hardcore fans and casuals alike. In terms of wrestling fans (casual and hardcore) he's the most popular ever

Last would be Vince McMahon. No explanation necessary
 
Contrary to the lies you may hear, Hogan was not universally loved. Only casual fans liked him. Everyone else either liked Randy Savage or watched NWA.

You're right, people seem to forget how much Hogan was hated by hardcore fans. He was declared the Most Overrated for 5 straight years (1994-1998).

The same thing might happen with Cena. In 20 years, people will be talking about how when they were kids, John Cena was the man and everyone loved him.

The difference is that we are in the social networking age, so people will be able to look up all the anti-Cena posts, the videotapes with CENA SUCKS chants, etc. In 20 years, I bet WWE will benoit the "Cena Sucks" chants as if they never happened, but it will be hard to convince the internet with so much available.

For the record, I'm a Cena fan. Had he been in a Ken Shamrock-like position on the card, he'd go down as one of my favorites. But because he's been shoved down our throats in a position he just isn't good at, I can't stand him.
 
not sure how many people you are allowed on the mount, make it austin, rock, hogan, the stone is taker and vince carved it. simple
 

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