Would the Wrestling industry be better off without TNA? (seriously)

[misskim]

If anyone thinks TNA should fold they're a tool. TNA is great because it gives an alternative, if TNA wasn't around I wouldn't watch wrestling at all, I simply can't stand the WWE grinding right now, it's like they can't make new stars, and have a huge stable of mid card talent who never really get to show what they can do.

Oh and Steiner is more entertaining still than most of the WWE stars, to say that he didn't do anything in WWE.. LOL well of course not, Vince just got him in to bury him, same with Goldberg, Steiner(as big poppa pump) and Goldberg were two of THE biggest stars WCW actually created and Vince hated that.

I'd rather watch Steiner promo in the ring for 20 mins than a boring match with shelton boringjamin and whatshinsname cabana

The one thing TNA does wrong though is that they listen too much to the internet fans. TNA have all these huge stars like Steiner, Sting, Booker T but they read on the net how they have to push guys like Samoa Joe so they never ever really make the older stars look GREAT and that means the younger stars who win over them (like Samoa) won't look too good.

If TNA had any brains they would simply run with Booker T, Steiner and those guys for like 3-4 years and really establish themselves and their stars before they push guys like Sloppy Joe who would actually BENEFIT from winning over Steiner who has held the TNA title for maybe 10 months, instead of winning over a Steiner who's hardly pushed

 

[motorcitymaniac]

There is no way the wrestling industry would be better off without TNA. I will admit that I am a huge TNA mark, but WWE has been forced to step up its game recently due to TNA, at least in part. TNA is not competition right now to WWE, but they could be eventually. It takes TIME to figure out the right way to do things in any company that has started fairly recently, and TNA is no exception.

 

[misskim]

Also people are hung up about TNA being competition, TNA will probably never be competitive concerning TV, I don't think so, but they can be a great nr2, also TNA are already a competitor in some ways because fans who go to TNA's house show might not pay to go to WWE's later on since he don't want to see two shows. And TNA can get wrestlers WWE wanted so in some ways they are competing

 

[MisterRob]

Im sure the same was said of WCW (pre 1996) and look how that ended up. WCW very nearly killed off WWE and if not for bad management they could very well have still been the top dog now instead of WWE. Also I have NO doubt they would still be here now and running well, if not for being sold to Vince who closed it down.


On what do you base that? Tarot cards? Gypsies palm readings?
Since its debut, TNA has grown year upon year. Based on that FACT, in 5 years time its not unfeasible to think TNA could be doing 2-3's in the ratings.
WWE's dropped into the 2's for the second time recently so TNA is slowly catching them up while WWE is slowing down to help them.

It’s feasible TNA could be doing 2-3’s in 5 years? Not the rate they’re going, I’m afraid. In 4 years they’ve gone from averaging 0.8 to 1.0. You can claim their highest rating is a 1.2, but that’s their best rating not what they’re consistently doing and even that when put into perspective is still not good. 2 points in 4 years, that’s very bad growth. The people behind TNA financially, you know stockholders who are shuffling out money in the company, are losing money and have been from the beginning. Lots and lots of money, in fact. The company is yet to be profitable over all and they’re exactly in the same place WWF and WCW were in their early years where they’re in severe debt and need to start making money. Do you think the people financially backing TNA are going to keep losing money in a failed business for another 5 years unless things turn around? And where do you think TNA will be making the biggest revenue? It’s not from merchandise, so those Shark Boy and Black Machismo t-shirts won’t be helping much. It’s in PPV buyrates. TNA continually has low PPV buy rates. WWE’s lowest buy rate was ECW’s December to Dismember which did about 90,000 or something (I believe). That buy rate made Vince McMahon freak out, accept that it was a failure, and stop doing ECW only ppvs. TNA’s highest buy rate was barely half of that, and that’s their very best buy rate they’re usually around 20,000. (There’s your competition to WWE) If they don’t solve that huge problem they won’t be around in even 2 years. WCW’s Starrcade was a make or break and the success is what helped them grow into the company they became. WWF’s WrestleMania was make or break and the success is what began their reign over the industry. If even WWF and WCW had failed in those events they probably wouldn’t even be here now, gone bankrupt and died. That’s the future for TNA if they don’t turn things around, debt doesn’t go away it just keeps growing.

I think Steiners promos are great (my opinion). I'm not knocking your opinion; but your just one voice. The great thing with Steiners promos is that they come across as unscripted. I don't know if they are?
Anyway with a Steiner promo, its always a refreshing break from what the other guys are doing. The promo where he rips AJ Styles about wearing spongebob PJ's, with his Spiderman pillow (or something like that) was one of the best I've seen in the past few years. I did just try to find it on You Tube, but no luck otherwise I'd have had the proof.
Also at the end of the day, Steiner does give his all in the ring. He's an "old roided up freak" yet he pulls out a Frankensteiner off the top rope for us! Yet he was back in the ring to fullfill his match at the TNA PPV with a FRESH scar straight after his trachea operation (after having his ribcage taken apart). Give the guy some respect.


Yes he does, and its also funny as fuck! The Sheik does it (x 100) but he's considered a ledgend?

I’m not disrespecting Steiner. Scott Steiner was a phenomenal wrestler back in his prime, he and Rick Steiner are one of the best tag teams ever in the business and I don’t think people even give them enough credit for how good they were. They were top stars, as a tag team, in every federation they went to, including champions in WWF, WCW and in Japan. They’ve beaten the greatest teams in the history of wrestling, when tag teams actually meant something and were in fact something to talk about. Not the sad tag teams of today, or teams like the Dudley Boyz who give themselves more credit then they deserve. But the fact is that Steiner, inside that ring, isn’t even half of what he use to be. That’s not me dissing him it’s me being reasonable and honest. And that’s fine you think Steiner’s good on the mic, I don’t. You can look back on his promos in WCW and the WWF, which were live, to see that he stumbles and rambles half the time and is lacking when he’s in a promo with someone whose good on the mic.

 

[misskim]

It’s feasible TNA could be doing 2-3’s in 5 years? Not the rate they’re going, I’m afraid. In 4 years they’ve gone from averaging 0.8 to 1.0. You can claim their highest rating is a 1.2, but that’s their best rating not what they’re consistently doing and even that when put into perspective is still not good. 2 points in 4 years, that’s very bad growth. The people behind TNA financially, you know stockholders who are shuffling out money in the company, are losing money and have been from the beginning. Lots and lots of money, in fact. The company is yet to be profitable over all and they’re exactly in the same place WWF and WCW were in their early years where they’re in severe debt and need to start making money.

TNA have only gone from 0.8 to 1.2 in four years? I'm sorry but iMPACT hasn't even been on for four years, it's been on for almost three years, Try to get some facts straight next time.

Also TNA have publicly said that they are actually making money now, and last year they were saying they were breaking even so that argument is debunked too since it would actually be illegal for them to lie about that.

TNA is not in debt at all to any stock holders since it's a privately owned company, they have lost money but Panda Energy corp their mother company has more money than Vince McMahon so really, money is the last thing Dixie has to worry about, although I am happy that they are even making money even so slightly.

 

[Kfabe]

It’s feasible TNA could be doing 2-3’s in 5 years?

Why not? Its already be done before so its been proven that it can be done.
WWE went from 2's to 7's in the space of 3 and a half years which is even more dramatic than asking for a 1.5 increase.

2 points in 4 years, that’s very bad growth.

Any growth is GREAT growth. Obviously you have never been involved in a business.

The people behind TNA financially, you know stockholders who are shuffling out money in the company, are losing money and have been from the beginning. Lots and lots of money, in fact. The company is yet to be profitable over all and they’re exactly in the same place WWF and WCW were in their early years where they’re in severe debt and need to start making money.

Thats wrong actually. This past year, TNA finally broke even. This year they are expecting to make a decent profit for the first time. And that isn't just wishfull thinking by Jarrett and co, this is Financial analysts speaking.

Do you think the people financially backing TNA are going to keep losing money in a failed business for another 5 years unless things turn around?

Yep because 1) Things have already turned around this year, 2) They are business men and any business man knows that you have to work with a loss during any companys infancy before it starts to make profit.

And where do you think TNA will be making the biggest revenue? It’s not from merchandise, so those Shark Boy and Black Machismo t-shirts won’t be helping much.

Black Machismo and Shark boy merchandise is TNA's highest selling product.

It’s in PPV buyrates.

No it's not, TNA currently make most of their money from house shows which are getting bigger and bigger as each month goes by. The UK shows have already sold out 2 months ago for example! In Liverpool they have had to add a second show to fullfill the demand!

TNA continually has low PPV buy rates. WWE’s lowest buy rate was ECW’s December to Dismember which did about 90,000 or something (I believe). That buy rate made Vince McMahon freak out, accept that it was a failure, and stop doing ECW only ppvs. TNA’s highest buy rate was barely half of that, and that’s their very best buy rate they’re usually around 20,000. (There’s your competition to WWE) If they don’t solve that huge problem they won’t be around in even 2 years.

FALSE. They've already been around a lot longer than 2 years, while working with even less buy rates than they get now. And now they are starting to make profit so why wouldn't they be around?
Also their buy rates are fairly steady and they can only get better as TNA's popularity grows. I'd be pretty frickin over the moon if my company was already making a profit without really tapping into the PPV market too. Infact I'd be rubbing my fingers knowing it can only get better and better.
Buy rates will grow inline with knowledge of the product. Knowledge of the product can be measured by ratings and as we can see, it is slowly but surely growing.
Another thing is when WWE and WCW had their respective "make or break" PPV's, they had already been in business for decades. Also boasting a long time established fan base.
Tna is in a better position than both WWE and WCW were in their first 5 years.

WCW’s Starrcade was a make or break and the success is what helped them grow into the company they became. WWF’s WrestleMania was make or break and the success is what began their reign over the industry. If even WWF and WCW had failed in those events they probably wouldn’t even be here now, gone bankrupt and died.

So does that mean that since TNA have already debuted their main PPV years ago, that they are more of a success than WWE for the fact that it didn't really sell yet they are still here, NOT bankrupt?

That’s the future for TNA if they don’t turn things around, debt doesn’t go away it just keeps growing.

Not really because the debt has gone away, they are growing and the events previously stated have already happened and TNA are still here.

I’m not disrespecting Steiner. Scott Steiner was a phenomenal wrestler back in his prime, he and Rick Steiner are one of the best tag teams ever in the business and I don’t think people even give them enough credit for how good they were. They were top stars, as a tag team, in every federation they went to, including champions in WWF, WCW and in Japan. They’ve beaten the greatest teams in the history of wrestling, when tag teams actually meant something and were in fact something to talk about.

110% Agreed.

Not the sad tag teams of today, or teams like the Dudley Boyz who give themselves more credit then they deserve.

Dont really agree with that one.

But the fact is that Steiner, inside that ring, isn’t even half of what he use to be. That’s not me dissing him it’s me being reasonable and honest.

True, but Rick Flair wasn't even a quarter of the man he was since the early 90's. Yet the biggest bumfest in wrestling history has only just about ended over Flair and his retirement!
Didn't really hear anybody moaning about Flair this past 5 years when all he's had to offer was 50 chops, 20 "whoo's", and a complementary backdrop every time he wrestles...

And that’s fine you think Steiner’s good on the mic, I don’t. You can look back on his promos in WCW and the WWF, which were live, to see that he stumbles and rambles half the time...

I know, it makes me piss myself every time. Thats part of the appeal. Im sure there was people that didn't like Rocks promo's either. Point is, your never going to please everybody, even if your the best. Thats why we have so many different characters and gimmicks to try and cater for everybodys need at some point.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Unfortunately for TNA, it faces a much biggger uphill battle to compete with WWE than WCW did back in the Monday Night War days. Back then, when the WWF was struggling, people tuned them out, gave WCW a chance, and it caught on, albeit for a short while only.

Nowadays, people are tuning out WWE to a large degree because of UFC and other MMA promotions. Several of my friends no longer watch WWE, haven't even given TNA a chance, but have switched instead to MMA. Let's face it, PPV's are expensive, and people aren't able to watch everything, they have to make choices. Die hard WWE fans will stick with the status quo (like myself) and continue to watch anyway. But I believe that many of the disillusioned WWE fans are turning to MMA instead of WWE.

The internet spoiler sites are another obstacle that TNA has that WCW didn't. Back in the day, people tuned in to WCW because you just never knew what would happen next. Who'd jump ship from WWF to WCW? What shit would Bischoff be up to? This sentiment is non-existent with TNA. People know ahead of time what's going to happen. They know it's a bunch of crap. So they elect not to watch, and either stick with WWE or go to MMA as above.

So WWE continues to blow TNA out of the water. And always will. Even with lots of new stars, more PPV's, expanding out of Orlando, weekly Impact TV, TNA is light years behind WWE. And personally I don't expect this to ever change.

With regards to Steiner, he was good in his days, but his day was 10 years ago. He's so roided up now that he can barely move. To suggest he's a big draw today is laughable.

 

[Kyphael]

Well, one thing is for sure. WWE would be better off without TNA, because talent that left WWE such as Booker T, Angle, Christian, Rhino, Raven, Team 3D, etc would have no choice but to return to WWE eventually. Anybody think Rhino would have torn the contract WWE offered him back when the ECW brand was created if he didn't have TNA to work in? I think not, unless he didn't need the money, which is doubtful. Not all the boys invest their money wisely.

And one thing is certain, WWE's ECW brand would be much better now with the likes of Team 3D, Rhino, Raven and Kurt Angle. Hell, even Christian could have made a good ECW Champion, but they had TNA as an alternative and could afford to leave WWE. In that light, as much as I detest TNA's direction, I don't think the wrestling world would be better without TNA, because with TNA, wrestlers have a choice if they feel they are being neglected and what is best for the wrestling world is also what is best for the wrestlers.

 

[MisterRob]

Why not? Its already be done before so its been proven that it can be done.
WWE went from 2's to 7's in the space of 3 and a half years which is even more dramatic than asking for a 1.5 increase.

Any growth is GREAT growth. Obviously you have never been involved in a business.

Both Monday Night RAW and WCW Nitro started with ratings in the 2’s from the beginning and much of their first years of television were in the mid to high 2’s. Monday Nitro went from 2’s to 3’s in one year. THAT’S GROWTH! You can claim TNA’s financially broken even and expecting to earn a slight profit finally, but when you own 75% of the shares of a company you want to earn a significant PROFIT. The future will determine the fate of TNA as just getting by financially isn’t going to be enough for the long term investment of big businesses. If they don’t see significant growth and profits then they’ll eventually pull out and find another avenue to put their investments into. Not to mention if their ratings remain low, with little growth over years, they’re going to have a pretty hard time convincing Spike TV to pick their show up again, especially taking up a two hour slot.

I’m all for TNA succeeding and becoming a successful company and show. I was extremely excited when TNA got a television deal because they were new and unique and an alternative to the names and product the WWE had. I watched TNA whenever I could, but I’ve lost faith and interest in the product now, and I really don’t see them improving their ratings with the shows they put out right now and the direction they’re going booking-wise. I find their product awful right now and they remind me of WCW, or a watered down version of WWE, not a unique and different product that interests me. I would love if they changed that.

But no, they’re no competition to WWE right now and reasonably they won’t be for a long time. And as I’ve mentioned before on one of these threads, fans and TNA especially, need to stop worrying about labeling themselves as competition to WWE and instead focus on making their product the best it can be and something unique in itself.

Rick Flair wasn't even a quarter of the man he was since the early 90's. Yet the biggest bumfest in wrestling history has only just about ended over Flair and his retirement! Didn't really hear anybody moaning about Flair this past 5 years when all he's had to offer was 50 chops, 20 "whoo's", and a complementary backdrop every time he wrestles...

Flair's a LEGEND. People will come to see him based on his name alone, much like Hulk Hogan. He doesn't need to wrestle well, or put on great technical wrestling matches, because people are entertained by him in the ring no matter what. That's a proven. We'll see if Steiner drew anything based on the last ppv buy rate, won't we?

And one thing is certain, WWE's ECW brand would be much better now with the likes of Team 3D, Rhino, Raven and Kurt Angle. Hell, even Christian could have made a good ECW Champion, but they had TNA as an alternative and could afford to leave WWE. In that light, as much as I detest TNA's direction, I don't think the wrestling world would be better without TNA, because with TNA, wrestlers have a choice if they feel they are being neglected and what is best for the wrestling world is also what is best for the wrestlers.

I really don’t think the WWE’s too worried about these names. They wouldn’t have released them and gotten rid of them otherwise, if they believed they were such a good addition to their product. Raven and Rhino were always misused by the WWE and that would’ve never changed, Christian was nothing but a mid-carder and that wouldn’t have changed, and Team 3D’s best days were over and WWE was finished pushing them. They're also not too worried about the ECW brand at all, it's not their bread and butter.

 

[Father:_Polley]

Well, one thing is for sure. WWE would be better off without TNA, because talent that left WWE such as Booker T, Angle, Christian, Rhino, Raven, Team 3D, etc would have no choice but to return to WWE eventually. Anybody think Rhino would have torn the contract WWE offered him back when the ECW brand was created if he didn't have TNA to work in? I think not, unless he didn't need the money, which is doubtful. Not all the boys invest their money wisely.

And one thing is certain, WWE's ECW brand would be much better now with the likes of Team 3D, Rhino, Raven and Kurt Angle. Hell, even Christian could have made a good ECW Champion, but they had TNA as an alternative and could afford to leave WWE. In that light, as much as I detest TNA's direction, I don't think the wrestling world would be better without TNA, because with TNA, wrestlers have a choice if they feel they are being neglected and what is best for the wrestling world is also what is best for the wrestlers.

Yes, because Booker T with his own company really needs to work. Angle would have quit for a while. The others simply didn't want to be forced to spend their lives jobbing to the big names. As for Rhyno, get your facts right son, he joined TNA in 2005, 2 years before ECW on Sci-Fi began so that argument is gone.
And do you really think the likes of Rhyno, Raven and the Dudleys would want to work in a brand that tarnishes the memory of the company they were mainstays of, because i don't.

 

[Father:_Polley]

Both Monday Night RAW and WCW Nitro started with ratings in the 2’s from the beginning and much of their first years of television were in the mid to high 2’s. Monday Nitro went from 2’s to 3’s in one year. THAT’S GROWTH! You can claim TNA’s financially broken even and expecting to earn a slight profit finally, but when you own 75% of the shares of a company you want to earn a significant PROFIT. The future will determine the fate of TNA as just getting by financially isn’t going to be enough for the long term investment of big businesses. If they don’t see significant growth and profits then they’ll eventually pull out and find another avenue to put their investments into. Not to mention if their ratings remain low, with little growth over years, they’re going to have a pretty hard time convincing Spike TV to pick their show up again, especially taking up a two hour slot.

I’m all for TNA succeeding and becoming a successful company and show. I was extremely excited when TNA got a television deal because they were new and unique and an alternative to the names and product the WWE had. I watched TNA whenever I could, but I’ve lost faith and interest in the product now, and I really don’t see them improving their ratings with the shows they put out right now and the direction they’re going booking-wise. I find their product awful right now and they remind me of WCW, or a watered down version of WWE, not a unique and different product that interests me. I would love if they changed that.

But no, they’re no competition to WWE right now and reasonably they won’t be for a long time. And as I’ve mentioned before on one of these threads, fans and TNA especially, need to stop worrying about labeling themselves as competition to WWE and instead focus on making their product the best it can be and something unique in itself.

The difference being that back then, numbers were bigger. Raw pulled in 6s and more, instead of 3s. TNA is growing, slowly, but still growing none the less. At least you've said the sensible thing that they won't be serious competition for a long time. However, I disagree with Spike dropping them anytime soon. From what I know, they seem to do quite well relative to other shows on the channel, and if they didn't trust them to turn out steady numbers, they wouldn't keep faith with them on prime time viewing.

But I do agree with the fact that fans especially here need to stop taking the fact that TNA is a wrestling company and automatically assuming they need to be turning out the same ratings as RAW and SD. Let's face it, they're a small company, people think wrestling, they think WWE because they're the big dogs, they're established and they have a following and generations who grew up on wrestling. TNA doesn't...it has people who wonder where Kurt Angle is now, or why Christian left. It'll take time to get more people behind them. But they can keep going and trying. It makes WWE pay attention to what they do anyway which is good for business

 

[Kyphael]

Angle would have quit for a while. The others simply didn't want to be forced to spend their lives jobbing to the big names. As for Rhyno, get your facts right son, he joined TNA in 2005, 2 years before ECW on Sci-Fi began so that argument is gone.
And do you really think the likes of Rhyno, Raven and the Dudleys would want to work in a brand that tarnishes the memory of the company they were mainstays of, because i don't.

Angle would have quit for a while? That gave me a good laugh; I think not. Angle quit because he knew he could work in a place where he would have a lighter schedule. Angle can't quit wrestling, as in he is incapable of it. The man is addicted to it. He is in worse shape than Steve Austin, and still refuses to retire. I don't even think he cares if he ends up in a wheelchair in his later years.

I have my facts right; Rhino was indeed offered a contract by WWE when they restarted ECW as a brand. He tore it live on Impact television, citing he decided to stay with TNA; they wanted him back because supposedly he had the authentic ECW World title, since he was the last ECW Champion. The belt RVD got was a replica, so you need to get your facts right, kid.

You don't think Team 3D would want to work in the WWE because they're "tarnishing" the image of ECW? Don't make me laugh, they already want to go back! They could give two shits about the original ECW, Tommy Dreamer was the most loyal man to ECW and he's been part of the new ECW for years. It's all about the almighty dollar, they weren't paid shit in the original ECW and had to tear their bodies apart for all the rabid ECW fans, while in WWE they work a style that is not as dangerous and make a shit load of money. Everyone knows pro wrestling is not real, especially the wrestlers themselves, they don't care where they work as long as they make the most money. Most are businessmen, they aren't in it for the glory. You have zero common sense. The only ones who gave up money for their passion for wrestling are Angle, Christian and Booker T and even among those three, Angle is the only one who cares about wrestling more than money. Christian quit because he wanted a lighter schedule and they never gave him a push, while Booker T quit over backstage politicking and potential racism/mistreatment.

 

[Alex(Killer Of Dreams & Legends)]

Lets put it this way i think tna is crap it just cant hold my attention like wwe... tna has got the x division and knock outs thats all i watch it for so i tivo it and ....angle is not as good as he once was and the other old guys are useless . They need to utilze in pushing aj and storm ... and joe is annoying... what was the point of booker t he is not utilzed how he should either .... granted i have not watched tna in about a month alot could have changed but tna just seems to be a weaker version of wcw .... and look it has the same guys ...........

 

[Canadian Knight]

I am new at watching TNA and watch Raw almost every week. TNA is key, for now, to the wrestling biz because it is neccessary to keep WWE on they're toes. Not that TNA are that close yet, but they are gaining ground. TNA have interesting story lines, better tag teams and the women's division is as it was in the WWE when Trish and Lita were starting out.

As for those who burnt they're bridges with the WWE, they don't have my sympathy because of the simple fact that most of these wrestlers owe they're careers because of them.

 

[Kfabe]

Lets put it this way i think tna is crap it just cant hold my attention like wwe...

Much like WWE can't hold my attention. Thats why its a nessecity to have multiple Feds out there so that each fan can watch what is best for them.

tna has got the x division and knock outs thats all i watch it for so i tivo it

I think that is why both TNA and WWE are suffering in the ratings. TNA could very well be nearly hitting 2's but we don't know because of the fans Tivo'ing it.

and ....angle is not as good as he once was and the other old guys are useless . They need to utilze in pushing aj and storm

AJ Styles is currently setting up for the biggest push of his career. He has been given time to harness his mic skills with the Prince of Phenominal gimmick, now he is ready and being rewarded for it. Anyone can see how much his promos have improved and how he is more camera aware and comfortable. You've got to praise managment for that.
As for Storm, he is getting more of a push that Chris Harris ever did. He is feuding with one of the biggest names in wrestling and is being pushed steadily. Try watching the product if you want to know who Im talking about.

... and joe is annoying...

DAMN! Whats with the marks? Can you not make up your mind or are you just oblivious to the term hypocrite?
One minute your all dissing TNA for not pushing Joe, stating how he's the Marks top TNA guy and TNA should listen to the internet fans, he finally gets the belt then you all diss managment for giving him a run and start calling him and putting him down!?! WTF?

what was the point of booker t he is not utilzed how he should either ....

I think his recent heel turn and character change is the best for Booker. He is reminding me of how talented he was back in WCW at the moment. Maybe he should feud with Styles over the right to wear his crown, then he could walk around badly imitating an English accent with his pinky in the air like a big ghetto puff...?
Would that be the right way to utilize him do you think?

granted i have not watched tna in about a month alot could have changed

Yep a lot has changed, and for fcuk's sake man, why are you ripping on something you don't watch and are not up to date on? I've not watched WWE for about 2 months now so I won't even attempt to comment on it because I don't know nothing about it at the moment. Wrestling moves so fast that being even a month behind is a massive amount of time lost. You can't possibly comment on what your not up to date on!

but tna just seems to be a weaker version of wcw

Id take that as a compliment if you can compare a 5 year old company with a worldwide, billion dollar, decades established company. Maybe as it gets older and richer, it will be able to fully compare with WCW. I wouldn't complain at that, I thought WCW was GREAT.

.... and look it has the same guys ...........

LOL, how many WWE guys are from WCW? And while we're on the subject, how many TNA guys are at WWE?
If you sat and checked you'd be suprised.

 

[Kyphael]

Off the top of my head, established wrestlers who left WWE or were released (past & present) that ended up in TNA include...
Raven, Rhino, Christian, Tomko, Brother Ray, Brother Devon, Kurt Angle, Booker T, Jeff Hardy, Shannon Moore, Dustin Rhodes, Kip James, BG James, Scott Steiner, Kevin Nash, Gail Kim, Jacqueline, err, maybe I'm missing a few but that's off the top of my head.

Guys that jumped from TNA to WWE, past and present, off the top of my head?
Chris Harris, Ron Killings, Sabu, Monty Brown... were there more?

 

[MisterRob]

Off the top of my head, established wrestlers who left WWE or were released (past & present) that ended up in TNA include...
Raven, Rhino, Christian, Tomko, Brother Ray, Brother Devon, Kurt Angle, Booker T, Jeff Hardy, Shannon Moore, Dustin Rhodes, Kip James, BG James, Scott Steiner, Kevin Nash, Gail Kim, Jacqueline, err, maybe I'm missing a few but that's off the top of my head.

Guys that jumped from TNA to WWE, past and present, off the top of my head?
Chris Harris, Ron Killings, Sabu, Monty Brown... were there more?

I wouldn't really call Sabu a TNA guy. He was brought into WWE for ECW, as he was an ECW original, had nothing to do with TNA. And Ron Killings was originally a WWE guy, so he doesn't even really count. So that's two?

 

[Kfabe]

Off the top of my head, established wrestlers who left WWE or were released (past & present) that ended up in TNA include...
Raven, Rhino, Christian, Tomko, Brother Ray, Brother Devon, Kurt Angle, Booker T, Jeff Hardy, Shannon Moore, Dustin Rhodes, Kip James, BG James, Scott Steiner, Kevin Nash, Gail Kim, Jacqueline, err, maybe I'm missing a few but that's off the top of my head.

I never asked you that, I accept TNA has ex WWE employees and I don't have a problem with that. Wrestlers have historically moved about between promotions, that's part of the business.
I see where your trying to go with this, and I see you are trying to put TNA down for having ex WWE stars. But you can't really use that argument when WWE has done the same. Most of the people you just mentioned came to WWE from other promotions so your point is a illogical. Example:

RAVEN: ECW
RHINO: ECW
TEAM 3D: ECW
BOOKER T: WCW
SHANNON MOORE: WCW
RHODES: WCW
STEINER: WCW
KEVIN NASH: WCW

So as you can see, TNA do nothing different from what WWE has done over the years. Apart from the fact that TNA are usually amicable with their signings while WWE has historically just raped other promotions without any thought for them.

Guys that jumped from TNA to WWE, past and present, off the top of my head?
Chris Harris, Ron Killings, Sabu, Monty Brown... were there more?

Does Sabu count? Since he was originally ECW? If he does then you can include Jeff Hardy also can't you?
Be it 1 wrestler or 100, the fact is that TNA bring in ex WWE guys just like WWE does the same with TNA's ex wrestlers...
Now if you'd like to go back to my original point on the previous post, go and check up who WWE has signed from other promotions...
I'll put myself out on a limb here and take a guess at around 70% of their stars?

 

[MisterRob]

I think that is why both TNA and WWE are suffering in the ratings. TNA could very well be nearly hitting 2's but we don't know because of the fans Tivo'ing it.

Hypotheticals really don't count.

AJ Styles is currently setting up for the biggest push of his career. He has been given time to harness his mic skills with the Prince of Phenominal gimmick, now he is ready and being rewarded for it. Anyone can see how much his promos have improved and how he is more camera aware and comfortable. You've got to praise managment for that.

I don't think you can really say he's setting up for the biggest push of his career, that's yet to be proven. He could be set up to job to Angle and then end up doing nothing more then he has for the past year or more. It's yet to be determined what will come of this push, and it certainly might not equal some of his other pushes which led him to become basically the top star in TNA at one time and multiple time Heavyweight champion, X Division champion, and Tag Team champion.

As for Storm, he is getting more of a push that Chris Harris ever did.

That had to do, it's rumored, because Storm is good pals with Jeff Jarrett and Harris wasn't. Kind of taints any comparison between the once tag team partners, in my opinion, if it's true. Although, Chris Harris wrestled for the TNA Heavyweight title (NWA at the time I believe) did he not? Storm never has, so you can say his push really wasn't as big as Harris's..

I think his recent heel turn and character change is the best for Booker. He is reminding me of how talented he was back in WCW at the moment. Maybe he should feud with Styles over the right to wear his crown, then he could walk around badly imitating an English accent with his pinky in the air like a big ghetto puff...? Would that be the right way to utilize him do you think?

It's all perspective really. He did well and got over as King Booker, and became Heavyweight champion, so I don't really think the way they utilized him during that time was a "bad" thing, compared to how they utilize him for years before that. And is the Prince AJ a unique gimmick? I think it's silly and sad and AJ Styles needs to drop it.

Id take that as a compliment if you can compare a 5 year old company with a worldwide, billion dollar, decades established company. Maybe as it gets older and richer, it will be able to fully compare with WCW. I wouldn't complain at that, I thought WCW was GREAT.

Unless he was referring to WCW during it's last days; horrible storylines, gimmicks, and an overall bad product.

LOL, how many WWE guys are from WCW? And while we're on the subject, how many TNA guys are at WWE?
If you sat and checked you'd be suprised.

WWE guys from WCW? William Regal, Ron Simmons (whose not an active wrestler), Big Show, Chuck Palumbo, Finlay, Gregory Helms, Rey Mysterio, Chavo Guerrero. Really not that many if you think about it in terms of the entire WWE product and all of the rosters, or those who are the major players in WWE right now. Certainly not as many as there use to be, WWE has done a pretty good job of building home grown talent and developing their own younger talent. That's what TNA needs to do, and not just mid card or lower level talent.

TNA to WWE? Monty Brown and Chris Harris. What's surprising about that?

 

[justinsayne]

I wouldn't really call Sabu a TNA guy. He was brought into WWE for ECW, as he was an ECW original, had nothing to do with TNA. And Ron Killings was originally a WWE guy, so he doesn't even really count. So that's two?

They do so count, they went from TNA to WWE, and I'm pretty sure that is the point he's getting at, by your logic you really couldn't consider Raven, Rhino, and Team 3D as WWE guys that went to TNA, they would be ECW guys that ended up in TNA, and Booker, Shannon Moore, Steiner, & Sting would be WCW guys that ended up in TNA, so that would only leave Christian, Tomko, Angle, Nash, Kip James, & BG James as the only WWE guys to go to TNA, that's what 6 WWE guys, 4 ECW guys, and 4 WCW guys?

WWE has taken Sabu, Monty Brown, Killings, Chris Harris, both of the Naturals, Sonny Siaki, Cassidy Riley, CM Punk, Matt Bently and Kid Kash from TNA, most of the guys WWE takes from TNA end up in their development territories for along time, before getting a chance on WWE tv, come to think of I I think even Sandman was in TNA before coming to WWE, so that's what 12?

 

[MisterRob]

I never asked you that, I accept TNA has ex WWE employees and I don't have a problem with that. Wrestlers have historically moved about between promotions, that's part of the business.
I see where your trying to go with this, and I see you are trying to put TNA down for having ex WWE stars. But you can't really use that argument when WWE has done the same. Most of the people you just mentioned came to WWE from other promotions so your point is a illogical. Example:

RAVEN: ECW
RHINO: ECW
TEAM 3D: ECW
BOOKER T: WCW
SHANNON MOORE: WCW
RHODES: WCW
STEINER: WCW
KEVIN NASH: WCW

So as you can see, TNA do nothing different from what WWE has done over the years. Apart from the fact that TNA are usually amicable with their signings while WWE has historically just raped other promotions without any thought for them.

Completely untrue. That was WCW who raped talent without giving anything in return. WWE raided and took the top talent from ECW, for sure there's no arguing that, but they helped out the ECW in return. Did you forget the whole ECW invasion that happened which gave Paul heyman and ECW national exposure on WWF TV. That's unthinkable. They even had WWF guys go and wrestle in ECW on several occassions such as when Mike Awesome was leaving ECW and Tazz went back from the WWF for one night. I believe there's even rumors that the WWF helped financially at times with ECW. That's entirely different from WCW who merely saw the success of wrestlers in ECW, such as Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, the Luchadors, Raven, etc, etc.. and took them. So, the claim that WWE raped other promotions without any thought for them I don't agree with at all, and it's proven to be false.

 

[MisterRob]

They do so count, they went from TNA to WWE, and I'm pretty sure that is the point he's getting at, by your logic you really couldn't consider Raven, Rhino, and Team 3D as WWE guys that went to TNA, they would be ECW guys that ended up in TNA, and Booker, Shannon Moore, Steiner, & Sting would be WCW guys that ended up in TNA, so that would only leave Christian, Tomko, Angle, Nash, Kip James, & BG James as the only WWE guys to go to TNA, that's what 6 WWE guys, 4 ECW guys, and 4 WCW guys?

I disagree. Sabu had been released from TNA and wasn't working with them or leaving a contract with them when he signed with the WWE and he made his career and his name in ECW, not TNA. Raven, Rhino, and Team 3D were SO WWE guys because they'd come straight from being released from WWE to TNA, not ECW. Same with Shannon Moore, he came straight from being on the WWE roster to TNA, and I'd say he was far more of a star in WWE then he was in WCW (but, there's not much there in either case). Same with Booker T who came straight from being released from the WWE to TNA, WCW had been gone for a long time.

TNA has taken Sabu, Monty Brown, Killings, Chris Harris, both of the Naturals, Sonny Siaki, Cassidy Riley, CM Punk, Matt Bently and Kid Kash from TNA, most of the guys WWE takes from TNA end up in their development territories for along time, before getting a chance on WWE tv, come to think of I I think even Sandman was in TNA before coming to WWE, so that's what 12?

I'm assuming you meant WWE has taken.. and the Naturals never even made it past more then one dark match in WWE, Cassidy Riley is gone already and never made it past the minors, Kid Kash is gone as well and he never became anything in the WWE.. and CM Punk had a short stint in TNA with no major role. Ring of Honor is where CM Punk came from.

 

[justinsayne]

I'm assuming you meant WWE has taken.. and the Naturals never even made it past more then one dark match in WWE, Cassidy Riley is gone already and never made it past the minors, Kid Kash is gone as well and he never became anything in the WWE.. and CM Punk had a short stint in TNA with no major role. Ring of Honor is where CM Punk came from.

It doesn't matter if they are no longer with the company or haven't made a major impact, that fact still remains that they are or have been signed to WWE contracts after coming from/being part of TNA, that is the whole point, WWE has taken talent from TNA just the same as TNA has taken talent from WWE, the difference is WWE ships them off to their developmental territories before repackaging them and putting them on the air

For the record the Naturals were in a squash match on SD! just a few months ago, and Cassidy Riley was Monty Browns first opponent when he made his debut in ECW, Kash was CW champion, and may have become Tag champions on SD! with Noble if he didn't have such a shitty attitude

 

[MisterRob]

Meduas and Ohklahoma were Cruiserwight champions too.. what's your point? As I said, Kid Kash didn't go anywhere in the WWE. I also don't believe the Naturals were even signed by the WWE, they had a try-out match and fucked it up. That's not really going from TNA to WWE as they FAILED to get to the WWE.

The point, in my mind is, that WWE takes TNA talent (and very little of it) and attempts to train and improve them to become something they didn't in TNA. TNA takes WWE talent and pushes them to the top over all there other talent and doesn't even work (aside from a few talents) to create home grown stars for their long term success, or use the amazing roster they do have that's being buried and simply under utilized.

 

[AnthonyM4]

I'm glad there's some competition in wrestling, but I wish the company that was competing with wwe wasn't like a "wcw-reused". TNA needs to be a true alternative to wwe, but sadly they are not. Besides the six-sided ring, what's the difference?

Why did Teddy Hart beat up CM Punk in a parking lot??? So I guess Punk isn't really skilled in Muay Thai and BJJ. I can imagine Teddy Hart knows real wrestling since he is afterall...a Hart.