WM28, Rock/Cena, is there a torch to pass?

[PlayTheGameHHH]

I see people talking about how Cena should win so Rocky can pass the torch...but is there even a torch there to pass on? Cena's the face of the company, a 10 time champion and he's main eventing PPV after PPV.

He's done MORE than the Rock...


Cena already has the torch...

What do you guys think? Do you agree/disagree? DISCUSS.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. There's nothing to gain from either of these two winning. Cena beating Rock in his own hometown won't get fans behind cena. And if Cena beats Rock then what? Rock leaves and we get the same old Cena? That's why Rock needs to win and we begin seeing a change in Cena. Not a heel turn just a slight shift in persona. There's no torch to pass because Cena been the face of the company since 2006.

 

[ITALIAN NYC]

I personally think The Rock needs to win this match.

Cena is going to go back to being super Cena and still the face of the company. Doesnt matter if he wins or loses.

If the Rock loses this match, it takes away anything he has if he ever comes back in the future to face other wrestlers.

Cena is always going to be around so its fine for him to lose matches here and there. Rock only comes back for special events, and if he loses them, well then whats the point.

 

[THEbrawler12345678910]

Cena already has the torch so the answer to the would be no.....just like the rock/hogan match, the rock was already at the top of his game whilehogan was referred to as the greatest of all time. same thing here, both are considered to be at the top of their game and there really is no torch to be passed.

 

[sTyLnK]

I personally think The Rock needs to win this match.

Cena is going to go back to being super Cena and still the face of the company. Doesnt matter if he wins or loses.

If the Rock loses this match, it takes away anything he has if he ever comes back in the future to face other wrestlers.

Cena is always going to be around so its fine for him to lose matches here and there. Rock only comes back for special events, and if he loses them, well then whats the point.

I don't see Cena losing clean. I do see the Rock losing clean though. He's too busy with movies and if he wins, what does it matter? Nothing. If Cena loses it will be through interference. The Miz will more than likely get involved or maybe a crazy surprise like Lesnar. As hinted by Rocky, sort of on his Twitter when asked about him for next year's WM. Who knows though, it's just what I think and I'm sure I'll be wrong. As for a torch to pass, well Cena is still going strong, so I don't see anything being passed. I'd love to see the younger guys thrown into the main event more. It's happening, but too slowly.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

You're right, there's not much of a torch to pass when you are supposedly having a guy who has barely competed in the last 8 years pass it to a guy that has had it for 6 years. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't really thought things out or were not alive 25 years ago or is just trying to sell it as something it is not (snake oil).

This feud is all about separating you from your money through ticket sales, purchasing the PPV or buying future DVDs (assuming DVDs exist in the future). Maybe it helps Rock promote his movies as well, but I don't feel like that has been shoved down our throats.

The match really needs to be epic to mean much in the future (create a desirable sequel or lead to a new storyline). I hope they can do it.

 

[willross]

To me this is going to be Wrestlemania 18 all over again just with different names.

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho will be our technical, pure fans wrestling match like we saw from HHH/Jericho, RVD/Regal that night

HHH/Undertaker is going to be that hardcore match with nostalgia like Taker/Flair, maybe mix in some Austin/Hall

Then of course, Rock/Cena is NOT going to be a technical match at all. With the volume off it will be better than Rock/Hogan. This match is purely reliant on the crowd. Toronto made Rock/Hogan the classic it was, Miami will have to do the same. They won't have to get to the level Toronto did 10 years ago, but they can't be sitting on their hands the whole 20 - 25 minutes.

There is a torch to pass. A much different torch. In my opinion their are 2 torches. The one that was held by Andre The Giant, the top entertainment star in wrestling and the one that was created by Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels in the mid-ninties because no one felt they were worthy of being THE guy, so they tore the house down a lit their own torch.

Bret and Shawn gave it Austin over the span of 96-98. . Austin didn't have the chance to give his to anyone....yet. The closest thing was a beer to Cena.

Andre gave his to Hogan. Hogan tried giving it to Warrior. Then tried giving it to Yokozuna. Then successfully gave it The Rock.

Cena needs THAT moment where he stands above them all. He has beaten HHH, Orton, HBK, Batista, etc. He has beaten every major star since 2005 other than Undertaker. He beats The ROck, at what I feel will be the most watched Wrestlemania of all time, that will be his stamp that he has needed.

 

[Mustang Sally]

You're right, there's not much of a torch to pass when you are supposedly having a guy who has barely competed in the last 8 years pass it to a guy that has had it for 6 years.

For sure. I keep reading people who think Rock should win because "everybody hates Cena," which is ridiculous. Yes, it's true that a lot of people are down on Cena today because that's simply the way people are; many consider themselves "true rebels who think for themselves and go against the crowd" when tons of them are actually folks who do the exact opposite of that......in fact, they're following the crowd, and if the crowd hates Cena, then they hate him, too. (NOTE: I'm not saying that everyone who hates Cena is wrong for doing so. I'm just considering the reasons people claim to hate him).

But this isn't a new concept. While Rock is being cast as the beloved wrestling icon from the past, I remember plenty of people "hating" him during his prime years with WWE. Same with Austin, Hogan, etc.

And now? All the promos Rock and Cena have done separately show Rock trash-talking and ranting while Cena has been offering a quiet, often understated series of speeches. Because many people are taken in by the bluster, they think Rock is "winning" the war of words (many are probably the same people that are still excited by the pyrotechnics at the beginning of Raw and Smackdown......Ooooooh! Look at all the pretty colors!).

In truth, the one you regard as "winning" the war of words is probably the guy you liked better in the first place.....and each promo you see only confirms in your mind that your guy is the best.

That's all fine, but don't be fooled into thinking a torch is being passed in this event. If Cena wins, it's because he's at the top of the heap already and beating the legend won't change Cena's stature in the company one bit. He gets no validation as #1 in WWE by beating Rock.....and he doesn't need it.

And if Rock wins, it's for nostalgia purposes only since Rock will be going back to Hollywood after WM and the after-Wrestlemania set of storylines the company launches won't involve him, anyway. It's a testament to Cena's standing that he can absorb a loss to Rock and still be the undisputed top man in WWE.

 

[ProWrestlingFan84]

I don't think there is a torch to pass. At least not with Rock/Cena. How can Rock pass a torch to someone whose has done more than the Rock. If this was 2005 or 2006 then perhaps there would be a torch but this is 2012 and Cena has been in the spotlight for quite sometime. Some argue too much time which is why a lot of people want Cena to lose. They feel Cena losing will show Cena in a different direction. Honestly I have no clue what direction Cena will head regardless the outcome. I'm personally rooting for Cena to win because I'd love to see the reaction of the Miami crowd as their hometown hero is beat whether it's clean or not. At the same token, it would be interesting if Rock won because then what does Cena do? It could open the door for something different but regardless, who does Cena feud with next, this feud has been going on off and on for a year? Simply put no there isn't a torch to pass because Cena is a way over, face of the company type of superstar. What I'm interested in is the match and the aftermath, no matter what happens.

 

[LAXbro]

Of course there is. Did Hogan really need to pass it on to the rock 10 years ago? Its going from one face to another. and hopefully in 10 years cena will pass it off to another face who ever that will be in 10 years i hope this is a thing that will happen every 10 years

 

[RJJ]

I have to agree, Cena already has the torch. I don't think beating Rock at WM infront of his HOMETOWN will do him any favor, actually, his situation might even get worse. IMO, Cena has reached his full potenial. He won't get any better than he is right now. He's no longer a rising star. He's a veteren now. Just like he said, Orton and himself are the only two left from their generation. Cena, just like Rock, has done it all, and there is absolutly nothing to prove.

And don't compare Hogan-Rock to Rock-Cena, because it was a whole different scenario. Other than being "Generation vs Generation", I don't see any similarities between the two match-ups:

1) Hogan was 48 when he fought the 29 Rock. Right now, Rock is 39 and Cena is 35, not much of a difference, they're about the same age. P.S Rock is in a way better condition than Hogan was 10yrs ago.


2) Rock was clearly the fan favourite during the whole fued with Hogan. No one thought Toronto will be 85% pro Hogan. With Cena on the other hand, the fans cheered rock over him in every damn city in the states uncluding his hometown.

3) Before the Hogan match, Rock really never have any WM moment. He was in a losing streak 0-3. So you can tell, he NEEDED to win that match. As far as Cena goes, He beat Batista, HHH, and HBK at WM.

4) Rock was way more over with the fans than Cena is right now. He was without a doubt the most popular superstar on the roster.

5) This Rock-Cena match is Face vs Face. Hogan-Rock was "Heel vs Face" match, as a heel, a clean loss won't hurt the character's image.

6) Win or lose, this match will be more of a Rock moment. All the spotlights will be on him.

 

[DirtyD79]

But this isn't a new concept. While Rock is being cast as the beloved wrestling icon from the past, I remember plenty of people "hating" him during his prime years with WWE. Same with Austin, Hogan, etc.

And now? All the promos Rock and Cena have done separately show Rock trash-talking and ranting while Cena has been offering a quiet, often understated series of speeches. Because many people are taken in by the bluster, they think Rock is "winning" the war of words (many are probably the same people that are still excited by the pyrotechnics at the beginning of Raw and Smackdown......Ooooooh! Look at all the pretty colors!).

So true. I was glad to see The Rock gone. If anything this feud with Cena has explosed him for the one trick pony he is. Every promo he did during this whole feud was "I don't like you and I'm gonna stick stuff up your ass and talk about genitals." Just like back in the day. His whole act only plays with the same crowd who drink a whole pack of Red Bull and go on XboxLive to yell "YOU'RE A ***!" at each other.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

So true. I was glad to see The Rock gone. If anything this feud with Cena has explosed him for the one trick pony he is. Every promo he did during this whole feud was "I don't like you and I'm gonna stick stuff up your ass and talk about genitals." Just like back in the day. His whole act only plays with the same crowd who drink a whole pack of Red Bull and go on XboxLive to yell "YOU'RE A ***!" at each other.

If you really believe The Rock has been given the greenlight to say everything he wants your dead wrong. He's been told to hold back to let Cena shine and actually look like he can go one on one with the great one. Now I'm trying to use this as an excuse but Cena has basically said the exact same thing just as the rock has. Your not here, I am, notes on wrist,tooth fairy.

 

[Mebzone]

Cena needs to lose....he needs to gain respect for the older wwe fans if he beats rock he just continues his undeserved sucess because he's already been pushed way too much for his little to no actual wrestling talent...not everyone that dislikes Cena is following the crowd...I dislike Austin as well he was always boring and wasn't very good in the ring same with hogan...the difference is that I respect austin cuz he fought his way to the top I don't have that same respect for cena cuz he really only found sucess because the wwe had nobody else...if u honestly ranked wwe wrestlers by mic skills and in ring talent where would cena be...Jericho Punk Ziggler Orton Rhodes Miz Barrett Christian and a couple more are all better than Cena...honestly to me Cena vs Rock is down right laughable The rock is so far above anything Cena has ever been or ever will be he just isn't as big...he's been the face of a horrible product for years and I will not miss him when he's gone...Rock needs to win if the wwe doesn't want Miami to riot and since I'm going to be there live I'll be right there raising hell if cena wins

 

[Pedigree1]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. There's nothing to gain from either of these two winning. Cena beating Rock in his own hometown won't get fans behind cena. And if Cena beats Rock then what? Rock leaves and we get the same old Cena? That's why Rock needs to win and we begin seeing a change in Cena. Not a heel turn just a slight shift in persona. There's no torch to pass because Cena been the face of the company since 2006.

Totally agree what really is to gain from this?? Cena either way will be Cena the next night on Raw half of the fans will boo him half will cheer him!! Rocky winning means nothing towards his career he will leave and probably wont be back till next year if he returns.

Cena winning well really he is a 10 time wwe champion and has been in the business longer than the rock has!! He has more championships than the rock has and draws the most emotion out of the crowd than any other superstar in history.

No torch Cena has been the face for what 7 years now!! A tweak in personality be nice not a full heel turn but the fans that boo him i like Cena to basically say F you i dont care about you i care about the people who cheer me!! You either with me or against me im sick of trying to win u over!! Boo if u want cheer if u want!! Now to me IMO thats not a heel turn Cena would be speaking the truth if he did that!

 

[Jabroni Drive]

Like many have said there is no torch to pass. However i do think a Cena loss would be better for him than a win. My reason for this is if Cena wins a lot of the older fans will see it as Cena being forced down their throats again. But if he loses Cena can either stick to his super Cena or have a slight change to his character like many have said. But either way it wont matter cause he still will be the top guy.

This match really is just for the fans if The Rock wins it vindicates the older fans and gives them the chance to say "the only reason cena is the top guy is cause there's no one else" If Cena wins the younger fans will continue to buy his t-shirts and chant his name whilst he continues to be the man in the wwe.

 

[Tyler44]

Honestly, there is no torch to pass for Cena, but there is a mental torch we need.

From my collections of online researching, youtube studying, and everything I've read here, John Cena is a very well-respected and hardworking individual, and everyone understands this. But with that said, his actual performance is still always doubted. Most still live in the mindset that John Cena is some stale, boring, mediocre in ring talent, and his character has overstayed it's presence by five years. And because of this, John Cena is now looked down upon.

And for years, he's just faced current talent, and current talent today has no star power. The big star power guys are on the verge of retiring, and Cena has beaten them all too many times. That has made him look on a level on his own, with nowhere to go.

And now, he is finally facing a star who's star power is 5x the size of anybody in WWE today. Cena has finally found somebody who is an equivalence to him. And with this match, we will see Cena fight somebody on his level. It will be unique, exciting, and most importantly, it will remind us why Cena is the top guy, and who he is. This is the mental torch we all need to see, and will see.

 

[OneTooManyPunts]

There definitely is no torch to be passed with Rock/Cena at Wrestlemania. When I think of the torch being passed by someone, I think of Hogan going over Andre at Wrestlemania 3, Austin beating HBK at Wrestlemania 14, even Lesnar beating Rock at Summerslam....these were matches where both participants were active performers in the WWE, where getting the rub from a bigger star was the best, and most high profile way to garner someone the kind of rub needed to move to that next level of stardom. Cena has been the face of the WWE for a decade, he's not a wrestler that needs anyone to put him over, or to give him a push to make him a household name..he already has that.

Rock has been away from WWE for almost a decade, and while his drawing power is still evident, it's as a momentary commodity, not as a long term solution or draw for WWE. Even modest fans know that Rock won't be around long, or much at all post Wrestlemania. There's nothing left for him to accomplish by a prolonged run in WWE, and if there's no reason for him to stay long term, then there's no sense that he is a guy with a torch to pass. Cena is arguably as successful, if not more so than Rock was during his WWE run. Rock had to compete for the lime light with Austin, Triple H, Taker, and Angle...Cena has been a man sitting on the top looking down for a long time.

If anything, when the time comes, it'll be Cena that will be the man to pass a torch to someone else. He has that drawing power, and that stature as the most prolific man in the company...it gives him that ability.

Even looking at the build up for their Wrestlemania match, there's been no sense of a torch passing, or passing of the guard in any sense. It's been two egos butting heads over who has done more for the WWE, sprinkled with jokes and lots of smirks and childish pot shots. For a match to be built as a torch passing, it has to feel almost life and death, like neither competitor can continue to exist in the WWE if they lose..that's just not the case with Rock and Cena. Everyone knows that Rock will continue to be a movie star, and everyone knows Cena will continue to be the man in WWE.

Their match is well played attempt at WWE to build a high profile match, and maximize a superstar from the past to energize the buy rate. If Austin wrestles next year, or Lesnar for that matter, does that mean that they too are returning to pass a torch? It's simply fantasy booking coming to life, WWE's attempt to make WM feel as grand as possible.

 

[Foshinzo]

I think there is definitely a torch to pass.

Cena has always performed under the shadows of guys like Austin/Rock, Taker, and other stars of the Attitude Era.

For the Rock to give this match up to him, to tip his hat and say, "You deserve it," is passing the torch. This entire match was made for buy-rates, the Rock to promote himself, and to give Cena a life-time achievement award.

The torch being passed may not burn so brightly, so to speak, but it's still being passed. Personally, I think Cena deserves it. I've been disappointed with the build-up for this match, but I think Cena has done a lot better, of the two. The Rock hasn't turned anything up, for me. He's still trying to be funny, he's still talking more about Twitter than the match, and he never seemed fully invested. I'm sure he is, but he never gave me the impression that he was. Cena has been putting his heart into this, it seems. He's doing as well as he can with the material he's been given, and I think he deserves it.

 

[Jenna.]

I was thinking about this at the end of Raw on Monday. Like what does winning do for Cena? I hear what he's saying, as far as no one remembers 2nd place, but the thing is, this match isn't a thing where if he loses he goes away after this. He has plenty of opportunities after this to redeem himself and solidify his legacy. But with Rock, his argument makes more sense. It took him 3 times to beat Austin, to finally prove himself against him. He beat another all time great in Hogan. Besides HBK, he's beaten the top guys the WWE has ever seen on the biggest stage. If he beats Cena, he's technically the best of all time. He still has it. He's not just Hollywood Rock.

I think Rock needs this win more than Cena does. There's no torch to be passed. Cena has accomplished a lot and more than The Rock. And like someone else mentioned this would be a good storyline for John. "I'm suppose to be the best, but I couldn't beat The Rock, a "vistor." Now I have this chip on my shoulder or more edgier attitude and because of this and I won't rest until I finally beat him."

But unforunately that won't happen. Cena will win and Rock's record at WM will look crazy pathetic.

 

[Da Solo]

There is no torch. HHH and HBK both passed that torch to Cena in previous WM's, and in the case of HBK vs. Cena, we all know how pissed off fans got. So if Rock was to pass this supposed torch in his hometown, Cena will never live it down. Besides, people are so in tune with their inner armchair-booker that they over-analyze the situation. Everybody's all: "OMG how will it make sense? Where will Rock/Cena go from here? Why let Rock win if he will leave again? Why let Cena win when it will bury him anyway? Why even have the match? Who benefits?" It's to a point where a lot of them need to shut the hell up and just enjoy this dream match and stop being so wannabe hipster-pessimistic about it.

And honestly, to put it in Busta Rhymes' terms: "You N***** can't handle the torch, so why pass it?" I'm not saying Cena doesn't deserve it or anything, but if there was a torch to pass, the fire would blow out due to the mass amounts of booing and hissing that will take place.

One last point: This is not comparable to Rock/Hogan:
1. Rock needed to win the Hogan match because it not only healed his shitty WM record, but because Hogan was heel (unlike this case when both Rock/Cena are both faces) and because the Rock's win really solidified his move above Austin as top face (yes, I believe he surpassed him, but another debate for another time).

2. Even though Rock got some boos against Hogan for a bit, he was cheered at every Raw/SD! leading up to it. And plus, anyone who isn't Jesus Christ would have been booed against Hogan that night. Cena has been booed profusley in these leading weeks, and he's supposed to be the face. That crowd will be 90%-10% in Rock's favor, and if he loses, clean or otherwise, they will flood the ring with garbage, ala ECW.

The way I see it, anyone can win this match, and regardless of how much "sense" it makes to the IWC, I will watch and enjoy it.

Oh, and Team Bring It all day (Boots to Asses!)

 

[the gravedigger]

I don't think there is a torch to be passed but there's a chance to relight one.

I grew up during the attitude era so I'm very much a Rock fan and I want Rock to win. But I think there's so much more material WWE can gather by allowing Rock to win.

Cena said this past Raw that he needs this win. Nobody remembers second place. He always wins, etc. The fact that he 'needs' this win and always wins is why he should lose.

If he lost, creative could refresh his character. For example, he could go the next 6 months to a year in doubt where he loses his confidence and the superman affect while staying face. The days where a heel ran the WWE seem to be gone so let a heel rise, one which is creating chaos for everybody in the WWE (doesn't have to be a monster, aka Kane, a heel like the 1999-2001 heel Triple H would work) and make the WWE and the crowd cry out for a hero. Rock's not around, he's making movies, CM Punk is overwhelmed. Just following something as simple as this would make the WWE universe once again need Cena because at the end of the day, we want heroes.

This is a chance to relight Cena's torch.

 

[Fansince1992]

I don't think The Rock is deserving of Passing a Torch. Don't get me wrong i think The Rock is a great Talent and an amazing entertainer, but in terms of Wrestling he missed out on 8 years of action. He left the WWE at age 31 or 32. To young to be considered holding a Torch. Did we ever see the best from The Rock ? We will never know that question. It was his own decision to change paths.

Like people are stating Cena is qualified to hold a Torch, and Cena is almost if not already at his peak. I just feel we missed to much of The Rock because he left Wrestling early in his carrear and didn't reach his own peak. Whatever happens on Sunday though is bound to be special. Can't wait to see the outcome.

 

[cmedge]

The mentality of the current day Cena fan never seems to surprise me, It's quite baffling. Alot of them ramble on saying "Cena is a great guy, he's done alot for the WWE so love him". I personally like the person Johnathan Felix Cena, but the onscreen character NO. I respect all Cena's done with the Make-A-Wish Foundation and for being the hardest worker in the company, I applaud him for his success but why does that have to make me like him on television. He can be the greatest guy in the world, for all I care but what does that have to do with John Cena onscreen? Nothing.....


But like I said I like Cena personally but not on T.V. You must be wondering why? Why could you hate our Chain Gang (Sorry we're PG NOW) I mean Cenation leader!!!????...

Well first of all he's way too inconsistent. Inconsistency is key one of the reasons why The Rock was over throughout his entire career was because of his consistency I know Cena is a consistent WWE Employee in the aspect that he always works hard but onscreen he's not. One day you'll see him cut an eloquent speech and then the next day he'll make poopy jokes.

Why should I invest in a character like that? The Rock always cut the best promos, had great matches constantly.

Cena CAN cut a good promo quite frankly I think he can be one of the best talkers in the biz like Eric said but does he usually no?

Cena's stuff recently has been good, I've liked it. I certainly don't think it can be on The Rock's level due to him being held back but nevertheless it's good but what's going to happen after Mania?

After Cena's big match we're going to go back to the poopy jokes and the same old crap we've been witnessing for years now. I can continue to ramble about Cena but what's the use? You idiotic Cenation loving, Cena pyjama wearing losers won't understand what I'm saying and anyways most of you won't be awake for his match anyway.

Cena is a good guy, I know people who have met him and hung out with him (for an hour!) but that doesn't mean I'm invested in his character.

I hope The Rock wins at Wrestlemania but I know that the young 25 year old Cena needs it or he's toast! NOT... John Cena has made a name for himself for squashing younger talent and people say that he HAS to be put over at Mania nooo.....

If The Rock wins clean in his hometown it won't affect Cena's credibility at all. Cena will still be the man no doubt. But we all know that Cena's winning as much as it hurts.

 

[cmedge]

I don't think The Rock is deserving of Passing a Torch. Don't get me wrong i think The Rock is a great Talent and an amazing entertainer, but in terms of Wrestling he missed out on 8 years of action. He left the WWE at age 31 or 32. To young to be considered holding a Torch. Did we ever see the best from The Rock ? We will never know that question. It was his own decision to change paths.

Like people are stating Cena is qualified to hold a Torch, and Cena is almost if not already at his peak. I just feel we missed to much of The Rock because he left Wrestling early in his carrear and didn't reach his own peak. Whatever happens on Sunday though is bound to be special. Can't wait to see the outcome.

The Rock in 3 years (From Survivor Series 98-Mania 2002) was probably a more established main eventer than Cena (From Wrestlemania 21-present).