StunningBlackMamba24
Savior of Unwashed IWC\\\\
And CM Punk ISN'T gonna be remembered?
Will any todays PG Era Wreslter ever break in TOP 10 Greatest Wrestler of All Time?
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And CM Punk ISN'T gonna be remembered?
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.
Kamehamehaaaaa!!
Considering that my top 10 include:
1) Hogan
2) Austin
3) Rock
4) Cena
5) Flair
6) HBK
7) Undertaker
8) Sammartino
9) Triple H
10) Macho Man/Sting
I don't know if anyone from the PG Era can do it. Cena did it, considering he's been wrestling's #1 draw for 10 years.
CM Punk would definately have beaten Macho Man and Sting, had he stayed longer and actually mainevented the Wrestlamania(s) he deserved. His 434 days reign, 2011 promo would have played a huge role. Nobody can deny Punk's drawing success. But Punk left.
Currently I don't see it happening. I'm placing my hopes on the future (Ambrose, Rollins, Reigns, Bray Wyatt) and hope that one of them will be able to do it.
EDIT: Had Punk stayed, had he kept the same popularity/momentum he had from 2011-2015, then he wouldn't only be top 10, but one could argue him being top 5, in the same league with Flair, HBK and Taker.
1) Hogan
2) Austin
3) Rock
4) Cena
5) Flair
6) HBK
7) Undertaker
8) Sammartino
9) Triple H
10) Macho Man/Sting
I don't know if anyone from the PG Era can do it. Cena did it, considering he's been wrestling's #1 draw for 10 years.
CM Punk would definately have beaten Macho Man and Sting, had he stayed longer and actually mainevented the Wrestlamania(s) he deserved. His 434 days reign, 2011 promo would have played a huge role. Nobody can deny Punk's drawing success. But Punk left.
Currently I don't see it happening. I'm placing my hopes on the future (Ambrose, Rollins, Reigns, Bray Wyatt) and hope that one of them will be able to do it.
EDIT: Had Punk stayed, had he kept the same popularity/momentum he had from 2011-2015, then he wouldn't only be top 10, but one could argue him being top 5, in the same league with Flair, HBK and Taker.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Probably not. Had a huge title run and was hot as all get out, but for how long? 2 years? Was a journeyman otherwise.
Probably HOF worthy, but not a top 5 or top 10 guy.
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
That depends from what perspective. If you approach this from bigger stars like Thesz, Londos, Lewis, or Andre that toured and moved from city to city allot more than the big stars like Sammartino, or Billy Watson, or Bill Longson, or Dick the Brusier and Lawler who stayed primarily in their territory you are correct.
But those others guys. There's nothing different about what they did compared to what Austin did in the 90's or Cena does now. Think about it. Longson drew over 570,000 fans over the course of 3 years to the St. Louis area. Waston drew close to 5 million to the Montreal area over the course of his career. Sammartino sold out MSG 187 times. Do you really think these guys had any easier a time staying relevant, and finding new ways to please crowds over and over like modern day wrestlers have to do today? No.
They had to face the same challenges. And becoming relevant and staying relevant was just as difficult.
CharlesKane
Not Championship Material
Any list that doesn't include Andre the Giant is irrelevant, he was the biggest star in the world in size and drawing power. Hogan was over and was a good, on the verge of great, star, but his feud with Andre at the end of Andre ' career created the legend.
Charismatic Enigma
Grand Slam Champion
Wrestling is all about booking.
I respect Cena's work ethic, and I think for the kind of performer he is, he does well enough, but I don't believe for a second if Hogan, Austin, Rock, and Cena were all in their prime in the same time period, that Cena comes in any other place than last.
Cena was booked from virtually day 1 as a credible champion, and basically hasn't had the rocket removed for the last 12 years. If you took Reigns, Rollins, Balor, Barrett, Ambrose, Sheamus, Owens, Zayn, or a whole list of other guys and for the next decade straight had them either in a main event, holding the title, or somewhere near the top of the card, by default their names would be included in that list. This is the mistake a lot of fans make when they perceive booking to equate to greatest of all time.
How often is Piper or DiBiase included when you see top 5 or top 10 lists? The answer is practically never, because without holding the belt multiple times, or being booked at the top of the card for a decade they don't get the same recognition, but those guys in their time were every bit as important, and contributed just as much.
So I guess what I'm saying is, if you take any strong talent (of which there is plenty currently in WWE) and let them have a 10+ year run at the top, of course they would break the list in most peoples perception, but perception isn't always reality
I respect Cena's work ethic, and I think for the kind of performer he is, he does well enough, but I don't believe for a second if Hogan, Austin, Rock, and Cena were all in their prime in the same time period, that Cena comes in any other place than last.
Cena was booked from virtually day 1 as a credible champion, and basically hasn't had the rocket removed for the last 12 years. If you took Reigns, Rollins, Balor, Barrett, Ambrose, Sheamus, Owens, Zayn, or a whole list of other guys and for the next decade straight had them either in a main event, holding the title, or somewhere near the top of the card, by default their names would be included in that list. This is the mistake a lot of fans make when they perceive booking to equate to greatest of all time.
How often is Piper or DiBiase included when you see top 5 or top 10 lists? The answer is practically never, because without holding the belt multiple times, or being booked at the top of the card for a decade they don't get the same recognition, but those guys in their time were every bit as important, and contributed just as much.
So I guess what I'm saying is, if you take any strong talent (of which there is plenty currently in WWE) and let them have a 10+ year run at the top, of course they would break the list in most peoples perception, but perception isn't always reality
The question is "Will any of today's PG Era wrestler's ever break into the Top 10 of all time". Sorry paraphrased that a little.
My answer is the list should be a flexible one considering new talent and who's coming down the pipe. Now arguably there are wrestler's like Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock etc. would always be on a list of greatest wrestlers, and the only name I can think of to break through from this era would be John Cena.
Given the question asked and the parameters I can't think of anyone else who would apply.
My answer is the list should be a flexible one considering new talent and who's coming down the pipe. Now arguably there are wrestler's like Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock etc. would always be on a list of greatest wrestlers, and the only name I can think of to break through from this era would be John Cena.
Given the question asked and the parameters I can't think of anyone else who would apply.
No.
In other generations performers created from their own lips
and others had way better writers as well as priority.
Today they have no lips and no priority, they are worthless to those in charge, and
when they use their own words they are either silenced, fired, or leave.
The matches are all structured, the promos are all written, today's accepting WWE star is nothing more then a robot. Might as well give the HOF award to Vince and anyone in personnel who helped him make that person a star.
In other generations performers created from their own lips
and others had way better writers as well as priority.
Today they have no lips and no priority, they are worthless to those in charge, and
when they use their own words they are either silenced, fired, or leave.
The matches are all structured, the promos are all written, today's accepting WWE star is nothing more then a robot. Might as well give the HOF award to Vince and anyone in personnel who helped him make that person a star.
I may be repeating stuff that was already said, but I don't have time to read all the responses. My problem with Top 10 list is that everything is subjective. It's the same thing as the Mount Rushmore of Wrestling. Top 10 greatest list. Top 10 Greatest what? Honestly, I think John Cena is a Top 10 talent on nearly any list. I mean, if you were to do a true list, the only people who really come close to the popularity and amount of money made Cena has are Hogan, Rock, and Austin. So realistically, I think Cena makes the "Top 10" list you're referring to. I love Sting. But I don't think he beats out Cena.
But that's a whole different problem. If you just say Top 10, everyone will have a different list. I could give a list of Top 10 All Time Workers- Shawn, Bret, Ric, Taker, Angle, Bryan, Punk, Perfect, Steamboat, Savage. Top 10 Heels- Piper, Edge, Orton, McMahon, Rock, Flair, Hollywood Hogan, Jericho, Triple H, DiBiase. Top 10 High Flyers- Mysterio, Hardy, RVD, Guerrero, Liger, Sabu, Neville, Ultimo Dragon, Styles, Ibushi, Snuka. So on and so on. So when you just say Top 10, everybody likes something different, so everybody will have a different answer. Has the last decade been as good as previous eras? I think absolutely not. But you can't discredit anyone just for being in this era. There's just too much out there to make a definitive list. Shawn Michaels was a hell of a lot better in the ring than John Cena, but John Cena made a lot more money for WWE than Shawn did. And honestly, if you put Bruno Sammartino in todays wrestling world, he probably would not have been able to become as big a star. Same could be said if you took Steve Austin and put him in the 60's and 70's. Time eras are different and tough to compare. That's why it's hard to say what "Top 10" really means, and who would be on that list.
But that's a whole different problem. If you just say Top 10, everyone will have a different list. I could give a list of Top 10 All Time Workers- Shawn, Bret, Ric, Taker, Angle, Bryan, Punk, Perfect, Steamboat, Savage. Top 10 Heels- Piper, Edge, Orton, McMahon, Rock, Flair, Hollywood Hogan, Jericho, Triple H, DiBiase. Top 10 High Flyers- Mysterio, Hardy, RVD, Guerrero, Liger, Sabu, Neville, Ultimo Dragon, Styles, Ibushi, Snuka. So on and so on. So when you just say Top 10, everybody likes something different, so everybody will have a different answer. Has the last decade been as good as previous eras? I think absolutely not. But you can't discredit anyone just for being in this era. There's just too much out there to make a definitive list. Shawn Michaels was a hell of a lot better in the ring than John Cena, but John Cena made a lot more money for WWE than Shawn did. And honestly, if you put Bruno Sammartino in todays wrestling world, he probably would not have been able to become as big a star. Same could be said if you took Steve Austin and put him in the 60's and 70's. Time eras are different and tough to compare. That's why it's hard to say what "Top 10" really means, and who would be on that list.
OYDK
King Of The Ring
No offense to the OP, but I hate threads like this. They just turn into one massive pissing contest where people can't handle the fact that somebody didn't rank one of their favorites in their "Top 10". Subjectivity is key my friends.
Imo, John Cena is already going to go down as one of the GOAT and will most likely be included in a Top 10 list by the WWE and the majority of objective fans, even if he retired today. Everybody has basically said this already, and I find it hard to argue with. He's a 15 time World Champion in the WWE and has literally (not literally...) carried an injured horse on his back for the past 10 years. He's superceded the wrestling industry which, at this point, only the biggest names have been able to do (Hogan, Rock). I think he'll go down as arguably, one of the top 5 ever to compete.
Another x-factor in all of this is Daniel Bryan. If Bryan can prolongue his career for another 10-12 years, he can easily have a career similar to Shawn Michaels'. Than again, Bryan is a lot older than HBK was when he began in the WWE and has already had a career threatening injury. IF Bryan can last, and can cement his momentum and popularity in the coming years, I believe he could sneak into the Top 10 for a lot of people.
Imo, John Cena is already going to go down as one of the GOAT and will most likely be included in a Top 10 list by the WWE and the majority of objective fans, even if he retired today. Everybody has basically said this already, and I find it hard to argue with. He's a 15 time World Champion in the WWE and has literally (not literally...) carried an injured horse on his back for the past 10 years. He's superceded the wrestling industry which, at this point, only the biggest names have been able to do (Hogan, Rock). I think he'll go down as arguably, one of the top 5 ever to compete.
Another x-factor in all of this is Daniel Bryan. If Bryan can prolongue his career for another 10-12 years, he can easily have a career similar to Shawn Michaels'. Than again, Bryan is a lot older than HBK was when he began in the WWE and has already had a career threatening injury. IF Bryan can last, and can cement his momentum and popularity in the coming years, I believe he could sneak into the Top 10 for a lot of people.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Uh, well, yea, because they weren't exposed to the entire local and possible prospective audience every single time out. They did not in any way face the same challeneges, because national tv exposure for 30 hours a week didn't exist. Couple this with the fact that no one had ever come off the top rope twice in a match, let alone set themselves on fire or flew off a 30 foot tall cage, and yea.....
Anyone who was around back in those days regularly sites this as the definitive way wrestling was healthier and easier to maintain a carreer in back then. Like, always, every time they site this. Its laughable to even argue it.
Wrestlingfan100
Pre-Show Stalwart
i'm sorry but this is stupid. It depends all on what you base it on, of course
they're top 10 WRESTLERS in this era. When you say wrestlers you are leaving broad statement meaning EVERY wrestler in EVERY promotion meaning you have to count Shinsuke Nakamura, AJ styles, Daniel Bryan, Tyson Kidd, Matt Sydal/Evan Bourne, Ibushi, Yoshino etc
top five current wrestlers in WWE, who are draws
1. John Cena
2. Brock Lesnar
3. Dean Ambrose
5. Kevin Owens
6. Randy Orton
7. Daniel Bryan
8. Chris Jericho
9. Bray Wyatt
10. Rey Mysterio until he is actually released.
they're top 10 WRESTLERS in this era. When you say wrestlers you are leaving broad statement meaning EVERY wrestler in EVERY promotion meaning you have to count Shinsuke Nakamura, AJ styles, Daniel Bryan, Tyson Kidd, Matt Sydal/Evan Bourne, Ibushi, Yoshino etc
top five current wrestlers in WWE, who are draws
1. John Cena
2. Brock Lesnar
3. Dean Ambrose
5. Kevin Owens
6. Randy Orton
7. Daniel Bryan
8. Chris Jericho
9. Bray Wyatt
10. Rey Mysterio until he is actually released.
Any list that doesn't have Bret Hart on it is a joke. Especially if they DO have Shawn Michaels on it. That being said, I don't see how anyone can say that John Cena WON'T be on the list from the PG Era. The guy is the modern day Hogan, and his popularity and impact on the business for this past decade is indisputable. I don't think anyone else has a chance of being on that list, though. The only one who could've had a chance in my mind is Randy Orton, but unless things change drastically for him with the remainder of his career I don't see that happening.
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
Alright. Point taken. But at the same time we can credit marketability and work ethic to extended relevance in the case of modern wrestlers. And because of that I don't want to discredit old school wrestlers who were marketable for the media outlets and the way they were sold as pro wrestlers to the public at that time. And they certainly had great work ethic. I suppose modern pro wrestlers have to be more flexible in their level of marketability, because there's more media outlets, merchandising, advertising, and crossover opportunities.
No Sting, HHH, and HBK is bigger than Macho Man.
Macho Man got overrated when he died. Happens to all people, music, artist etc.
Sting, HHH and HBK are all bigger than Macho Man. Macho Mans career was pretty short in WWF. And then he went to WCW, he was always second fiddle at most, and for very short period of time.
And Macho Man didn't have any fanbase in WCW like the others. Like Sting, HHH, HBK. People didn't care that much.
And after 1999 he wasn't relevant. He barely had a fanbase, but got rated first when he died.
Not only is your top 10 list out of order and missing some names, but to say that the Macho Man got overrated when he died shows you know very, very, very, very, very, very little about wrestlings past. Just because McMahon and company have devalued him over the years for Savages relationship with Steph, for punching McMahon out at a bar and for boycotting the HOF unless his dad and brother were inducted with him, does not make Savage overrated when he died. LOL Didnt have a fanbase after 1999..LOL Dude you must be on some brain damaging drug son. Savage quit the wrestling business and refused to return after 99 besides a few appearances in TNA. That doesn't write him out of the record. My question button isnt working on my laptop today but how can we possibly answer your question when your criteria is inherently flawed. You cant place Triple H on a top 10 list either dude. Sure hes been around forever and hes been in a lot of high profile matches. But hes not a top 10 best ever. I personally have a hard time putting him in my own subjective top 30. The guy and his wife and father in law have pushed him twice as hard as they ever pushed Hogan and he still just comes off as blah. Objectively, since I realize not everyone shares my disinterest in Trips, you could say hes number 14 just behind Angle, Andre and Sting. Sting was WCW face and his battling the NWO cemented him top 15. Theres no way Triple H surpasses Andre. As big and unbeaten as Andre was during his time, he just isn't top 10 though. Close. Angle would be top 10 had he stuck with WWE. It could be argued he is top 10 as I much prefer him to that wank Cena. I don't think it would be me being objective though.
As another poster mentioned, a list excluding Bret Hart is irrelevant. Hitman and Savage need to be here. Andre and Triple H don't. I get that a lot of younger fans like to dismiss anything that happened in WCW and overrate the 5 year Attitude Era guys like The Rock and Austin because of the over the top pops the audiences gave both. When I think of wrestling I think of the figureheads of periods like Hogan #1 Savage 1A Hitman #1 Michaels 1A Stone Cold #1 Rock 1A Cena#1 Taker 1A. Then in WCW theres Flair #1 and Sting 1A for a period and Hollywood #1 and Sting 1A the next. In TNA there was Angle #1 and Sting 1A. And of course before Hogan there was Bruno as #1 and perhaps Andre 1A 15 years before the Hogan era. So when you make a top 10 list, you have to consider all of these guys, where they wrestled, how much they drew, how over they were, how awesome they were without the Dusty self push (looking at you JP!). A lot of fans like to put Undertaker #1 because he had the greatest gimmick of all time. I guarantee you that without the gimmick, he wouldn't have been able to crack top 30. I agree though that Taker did an amazing job making his character and he is a top 10 because of it. Rock and Austin need to come down your top 10 list. Savage and Hitman need to come up the list. Michaels up the list.
Top 10 list:
1 Hulk Hogan
2 Ric Flair
3 Bruno Sammartino
4 Randy Savage
5 Shawn Michaels
6 Bret Hart
7 Steve Austin
8 The Rock
9 Undertaker
10 John Cena
Answer to your question: No one from the PG era, other than perhaps Cena, will ever make this list unless they someday surpass the work of Angle, Andre, Sting or Trips. Not saying that its impossible for a guy like Brock to do it. Its just highly unlikely he will surpass Andre.
d_henderson1810
Mid-Card Championship Winner
I think the only other person, besides Cena, who could be there is possibly Randy Orton, if he can reproduce the greatness of his early career.
rmp0012002
Championship Contender
To me a list of the "greatest" of all time, not including actual ability which would be a totally different list, is reserved for guys that transcended the sport, even for just an era.
1. Hogan - Made wrestling mainstream.
2. Andre - World reknown and massive draw.
3. Sammartino - Dominated his era, loved by fans all over.
4. Austin - Biggest money maker ever probably. His character came at the right time to be huge.
5. Flair - hugely over with the fans as a heel or face and did so over decades. still a favorite today.
Of today's wrestlers the only one that possibly could be added is Cena but Its hard to pick his defining achievement. He dominated this era but did he elevate the sport?
1. Hogan - Made wrestling mainstream.
2. Andre - World reknown and massive draw.
3. Sammartino - Dominated his era, loved by fans all over.
4. Austin - Biggest money maker ever probably. His character came at the right time to be huge.
5. Flair - hugely over with the fans as a heel or face and did so over decades. still a favorite today.
Of today's wrestlers the only one that possibly could be added is Cena but Its hard to pick his defining achievement. He dominated this era but did he elevate the sport?
BaconBits
WZ Czar of Steaks
So you're saying a guy has to transcend wrestling to be the top wrestler of all time?
Why isn't The Rock you're number one, then? Moreso, how in the hell is he not even in the top 5?
He transcended wrestling a long time ago, and transcended it in a way that nobody else in professional wrestling history has. It's not even close.
TWJC: The Beginning
Royal Rumble Winner
Your list has 6 guys who mostly made their name in the 90s. That alone loses your credibility. What you're really asking is "will anyone today replace, in my mind, my favorite stars". That answer is no.
The real answer is yes, John Cena is already on mount rushmore. He's had a run on top for 13 years. Austin and Rock, as popular as they were, didn't have long runs at all. Austin because he got hurt and Rock because he doesn't love wrestling.
Cena has carried wrestling these last 13 years. He's certainly a bigger star than HHH. He means as much to WWE as Sting did to WCW.
If you're one of those people who thinks he can't wrestle (which is ridiculous at this point) then I don't know what to tell you. Cena/Umaga, Cena/Punk, Cena/Bryan, Cena/JBL, even Cena/Batista are all really good matches. Cena/Edge is a feud that people who started watching in that era will measure other feuds up to.
You may say that Cena didn't elevate the sport. I disagree. Most of you were huge marks during the attitude era. I was a fan before that. The Attitude Era gave wrestling a TON of negative press. It was popular in the same way that Jersey Shore and Jerry Springer got popular. A lot of people watched it, but it was seen as trailer trash TV. Cena, because he's more of a role model, made it more acceptable to more people. Take that however you want, but I don't see parents setting up groups to try and prevent their kids from watching it like they once were.
The real answer is yes, John Cena is already on mount rushmore. He's had a run on top for 13 years. Austin and Rock, as popular as they were, didn't have long runs at all. Austin because he got hurt and Rock because he doesn't love wrestling.
Cena has carried wrestling these last 13 years. He's certainly a bigger star than HHH. He means as much to WWE as Sting did to WCW.
If you're one of those people who thinks he can't wrestle (which is ridiculous at this point) then I don't know what to tell you. Cena/Umaga, Cena/Punk, Cena/Bryan, Cena/JBL, even Cena/Batista are all really good matches. Cena/Edge is a feud that people who started watching in that era will measure other feuds up to.
You may say that Cena didn't elevate the sport. I disagree. Most of you were huge marks during the attitude era. I was a fan before that. The Attitude Era gave wrestling a TON of negative press. It was popular in the same way that Jersey Shore and Jerry Springer got popular. A lot of people watched it, but it was seen as trailer trash TV. Cena, because he's more of a role model, made it more acceptable to more people. Take that however you want, but I don't see parents setting up groups to try and prevent their kids from watching it like they once were.
I agree. Crazy thing about it is Cena is nowhere near close to being done. I can only imagine what more he can do for his legacy, especially if they ever decide to turn him heel again.
By being one of the four biggest draws of all time, along with being on top for longer than pretty much anyone.
.
Macho Man got overrated when he died. Happens to all people, music, artist etc.
Oh, honey, no...
In the late 80's and early 90's, Randy Savage was second only to Hulk Hogan as the biggest draw in the WWF, especially when André the Giant's health declined. Outside of the WWF, arguably only Ric Flair was a bigger draw.
Savage was a bigger draw than Shawn Michaels ever was. Probably bigger than Sting too. And it has nothing to do with his death. PWI ranked Savage as the 9th greatest wrestler of all time in 2003, years before he died.
Your acting like a mark really. You comparing Cena with WCW/Sting?
I wrote before: Being good in the worst era - in proffessional wrestling - doesn't make you great at all when you compare to all time greats.
Macho Man is overrated. Top 4? Rushmore? Jesus.
It happens with all people when they die - they get overrated. Doesn't matter if it's music, sports etc.
He had a short WWF-career. He was mostly second fiddle his entire career.
Look at WCW, did he have any fans? Nope. You had NWO/Goldberg/Sting as the 3 biggest stars.
You never saw any "Macho Man" fans because people were not into him like the top stars of the company.
Macho Man was an upper-midcarder in WCW 90% of this time.
Macho Mans fans did barely exist at all. He got rated more when he died.
How old are you?
That had to be one of the dumbest post I have ever read on here. Macho Man was more over than 99% of wrestlers have ever been.
Second fiddle? um Taker was never even second fiddle EVER!!! So are we not including him. HBK was second fiddle or worst for the majority of his career. You cant penalize a wrestler for wrestling alongside another great.
Macho was considered one of the greatest of all time for more than a decade before he freaking died!!!
Old enough to see WWF/WCW in their primes.
Your biased. I'm talking objectivly about Macho Man and doesn't mean I rate him. Im just saying he got more rated when he died.
You know damn well Macho Man is not Top 4 at all. That's being biased if you have a favourite character.
Being objective is that Macho Man is on a top 10. But for me he's trying to break in against Sting, Triple H at that spot.
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