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Will any todays PG Era Wreslter ever break in TOP 10 Greatest Wrestler of All Time?

mizowns

Pre-Show Stalwart
So what do you guys think?

Almost the last 8-9 years, almost a decade, wrestling has been pretty poor. And todays wrestlers have had a hard time to establish themself and the ratings goes down the toilet.

Will we ever see a PG era wrestler of today rise and shine and break in a Top 10 list, Greatest Wrestler of All time?

Hogan
Rock
Austin
Flair
Undertaker
Sammartino
Andre The Giant
HBK
Triple H
Sting

Can someone ever break in to that list?
 
Considering Cena has already surpassed Triple H and Sting (at least) on that list I'm going to go with yes. Even so a GOAT list when it comes to wrestling is such a suggestive thing (for example, you can easily add Harley Race or Lou Thesz to that list) a guy like Cena can easily be added into the list of greatest of all time, he has certainly done enough to warrant it.
 
I wouldn't put Cena over HHH but definitely over Sting. Id also put Macho in there above HBK, Sting, and HHH.

Right now Cena is your only answer and it will probably remain that way. I think that DB/Punk would have had a chance to get close if they would have gotten pushed/popular when they were a bit younger. Nowadays it seems that people have to have been wrestling 10 years already or have a family member in the business to get a chance. Look at Devitt, he's like 31 years old I think. People are getting pushed at older ages which will hurt their chances of getting to that level plus the fact that the crowd turns on you after being in the spotlight for more than two years now lol.
 
Well, lets tackle the first issue with this list. You're 10 big names are not the same names as I would necessarily list. Still, it's a pretty good list for the basis of this thread, so lets just move on...

In terms of what is available to the WWE right now, I don't think there is one guy on the roster who can really go to that level, with the exception of John Cena. And I guess it depends on what you think a "wrestler" is for that matter. I believe that Triple H is a better out and out wrestler than The Rock but The Rock was a better entertainer. So I guess it really depends on what you think constitutes a wrestler in this day and age.

As I said though, Cena is the only one who could break that list, if it was deemed to be the most official list. Still, it comes down to how the WWE handle the talent they have. They have opened the doors for people like Cena, Austin and The Rock so they could definitely do it again. Whether any of the wrestlers in the WWE right now have the talent to walk through it is up for debate.

Just remember this, the next big guy doesn't have to be someone coming through the ranks. Look at someone like Kurt Angle. He didn't go through the development system but he was and is one of the best there has ever been in my opinion. Perhaps the next big wrestling star is someone coming through that route?

Either way, no matter what the Era of wrestling, the opportunity to walk through the door will always be there if you can get enough people behind you and you have the talent to do so.
 
Cena is easily top ten. Probably top four and arguably top three.

I'm not going to question that particular list but Cena is one of the top ten superstars of all time. If we are looking to the future then it is way to early to say. Even in the mid 2000's it would have been difficult to predict how Cena would do but he has probably surpassed all expectations.

Looking at the current group of young talent it would be a random prediction. I'd say Reigns and Rollins have a shitload of potential but to be considered in the top ten would be some feat. I reckon Rollins can become one of the top ten heels in WWE history, comfortably. I'd suggest Reigns can become one of the big stars but top ten, probably not.
 
Cena is easily top ten. Probably top four and arguably top three.

I don't get what Cena has done to be a top 4? Being great in the most boring era, the worst era in wrestling doesn't make you qualified to be in a top 10 list - of all time. IMO.
 
I wouldn't put Cena over HHH but definitely over Sting. Id also put Macho in there above HBK, Sting, and HHH.

No Sting, HHH, and HBK is bigger than Macho Man.
Macho Man got overrated when he died. Happens to all people, music, artist etc. :(

Sting, HHH and HBK are all bigger than Macho Man. Macho Mans career was pretty short in WWF. And then he went to WCW, he was always second fiddle at most, and for very short period of time.

And Macho Man didn't have any fanbase in WCW like the others. Like Sting, HHH, HBK. People didn't care that much.

And after 1999 he wasn't relevant. He barely had a fanbase, but got rated first when he died.
 
I don't get what Cena has done to be a top 4? Being great in the most boring era, the worst era in wrestling doesn't make you qualified to be in a top 10 list - of all time. IMO.

Being the number 1 in probably the second and third best era of wrestling, being considered one of the greatest workers of all time by every superstar he's ever fought (except Punk), his work ethic is unparallelled, too. Hate his gimmick if you have to, but for fuck's sake, can the IWC Cena Haters just not be honest about him for one second?
 
It depends on what you mean by "All Time" and what your objective criteria are. If you're trying to make a list of the greatest pro wrestlers of any era then no, none of them would make it. In fact more than half of the men you listed would not make such a list either. Based upon multiple criteria that is. However if you are making a "greatest WWE superstars" list then, yes. John Cena should definitely be on such a list. Randy Orton probably not.

If I had to construct a 10 ten list of the greatest WWE pro wrestlers of all time [lumping in WCW because they own the library] using criteria such as drawing ability, charisma, accolades, ability, longevity, consistency, and overall legacy my list would look something like...

1.) Hulk Hogan
2.) Bruno Sammartino
3.) Steve Austin
4.) Ric Flair
5.) The Rock
6.) Andre the Giant
7.) John Cena
8.) Sting
9.) Triple H
10.) Randy Savage

Someone else may have a list with a different order. But the thing about objective lists is that those that are thought out, and are non biased, tend to have the same people on them no matter the order.

If I were to do an "All Time" list [barring international talent and using the same criteria] it would look different...

1.) Lou Thesz
2.) Strangler Lewis
3.) Hulk Hogan
4.) Jim Londos
5.) Bruno Sammartino
6.) Steve Austin
7.) Frank Gotch
8.) Verne Gagne
9.) Ric Flair
10.) Bill Longson
 
Cena is already at LEAST number four. Rey Mysterio is easily top ten, if not top five. Depending on their health and how they are used, Randy Orton and Daniel Bryan will also be fondly remembered from a historical standpoint.
 
Cena is top 4, arguably top 3.

Screwed that up, non spam. Cena is behind Hogan and Austin for sure. The argument is no. 3 with the Rock. Cena is a fifteen time champ, and the draw for the company for ten years. Hogan made it 8 years, Austin 6.
 
My answer for your question will be Why not? There are lots of potential Wrestlers who had signed with WWE. I can see the bright future ahead for both the WWE and its Superstars. So there's a hell of a chance!!

Cheers!!
 
Screwed that up, non spam. Cena is behind Hogan and Austin for sure. The argument is no. 3 with the Rock. Cena is a fifteen time champ, and the draw for the company for ten years. Hogan made it 8 years, Austin 6.

If you're going to use longevity as a primary argument then Sammartino should be in front of Cena. He was on top of the promotion for a combined 12 years. And he drew. Allot. Cena works in an era where no one name is bigger than the industry. And the WWE draws whatever they need off the name value of their promotion.
 
So what do you guys think?

Almost the last 8-9 years, almost a decade, wrestling has been pretty poor. And todays wrestlers have had a hard time to establish themself and the ratings goes down the toilet.

Will we ever see a PG era wrestler of today rise and shine and break in a Top 10 list, Greatest Wrestler of All time?

Hogan
Rock
Austin
Flair
Undertaker
Sammartino
Andre The Giant
HBK
Triple H
Sting


Can someone ever break in to that list?

Your kidding me right. First off you left the #2 or #3 biggest legend of all-time off the list who was already the guy when the PG era started and really made that era JOHN CENA. Your list is a pretty good list but let's be real there is no list of WWE all-time legends without Cena's name on it. To answer your question, Cena already has. The same could be argued for Punk,but it can be argued. With Cena there is no argument.

My personal list for biggest legends of all time would be-

#10- The Ultimate Warrior (With Punk eventually taking the spot)
#9- Bret Hart
#8- The Undertaker
#7- Bruno Sammartino
#6- Andre The Giant
#5- Ric Flair
#4- Stone Cold
#3- The Rock
#2- John Cena
#1- Hulk Hogan
 
If you're going to use longevity as a primary argument then Sammartino should be in front of Cena. He was on top of the promotion for a combined 12 years. And he drew. Allot. Cena works in an era where no one name is bigger than the industry. And the WWE draws whatever they need off the name value of their promotion.

I'll never argue the popularity of Sammartino, but I will always question his ability to be a huge draw on a national scale. If we were debating King of The Northeast, Sammartino damn near is the undebatable #1. Cena has managed to stay at the top in a company that is now a Global Brand. There might be no legit #2 company, but Cena has managed to hold off all of the competition from within.
 
If you're going to use longevity as a primary argument then Sammartino should be in front of Cena. He was on top of the promotion for a combined 12 years. And he drew. Allot. Cena works in an era where no one name is bigger than the industry. And the WWE draws whatever they need off the name value of their promotion.

At the same Sammartino didn't have to be on TV 25 hours per month. Today a star reigning for a year is damn near equivalent to a decade back then when you account for overexposure
 
I'll never argue the popularity of Sammartino, but I will always question his ability to be a huge draw on a national scale. If we were debating King of The Northeast, Sammartino damn near is the undebatable #1. Cena has managed to stay at the top in a company that is now a Global Brand. There might be no legit #2 company, but Cena has managed to hold off all of the competition from within.

I don't know if I put stock into that Sammartino argument or not. He was successful in St. Louis the few times he worked there. During the 60's/70's the NWA, AWA, and WWWF were trying to negotiate a way to create a single world champion, and Bruno was seen at the best choice at the time. But the decision never happened because it would have been impossible for one man to adhere to the demands and dates of those 3 promotions. That's why I don't think Bruno ever went outside the Northeast that often. The NWA title was seen as more important, but Bruno was making just as much money with a schedule that was just as grueling.

As for Cena he has never had the level of competition that other big era stars have had. Other than Randy Orton no other name in the modern era comes close to Cena's or any big name star. And despite what others may suggest I do not buy the argument that the WWE was able to expand like they have due to his popularity. I think WWE expanded on their own, due to their promotions popularity and the fact that they had next to zero competition.

I've always seen Cena as the champion they chose for so long, because he had the best marketability, loyalty, and work ethic of anyone else.
 
alright lets get this out the way first all list are objective by personal preferences for me it be the modern era from 1980 to today lemme make some people mad firsr d bryan no just no as for rey you telling me he had a better career then eddy come on now and for the people saying punk do u really think he stacks up better then edge or orton as a total career now that ive got that outta the way my personal top 10 of guys ive watched and seen in there prime and other wise this is my list on my personal criteria
1.hogan
2.rock
3.austin
4.cena
5.sting
6.undertaker
7.hbk
8.ric flair
9.great muta
10.ultimate warrior
with honorable mentions to macho man,hhh,edge,and kurt angle
 
I don't see why not since any sort of "all time greatest" list is entirely subjective. Damn near everything associated with pro wrestling in terms of "greatness" can be subjective. For example, many have ridiculed Brock Lesnar's run as WWE World Heavyweight Champion as he doesn't defend it very often, yet some fans might not consider that a big deal as it could depend on what you're used to. Here in America, we're used to seeing the main event champion on TV each week with him defending the title at least once a month at a ppv. However, maybe a Japanese wrestling fan, or even an American who watches a lot of Japanese wrestling, might not see a problem as it's very common for a championship to only be defended ever 3 months or so in Japan. That could be a factor in why it's not uncommon for an IWGP Heavyweight Championship reign to last quite a bit as a wrestler might only defend the title 2, 3 or 4 times within a 200 to 300 day run. Lesnar's match rematch against John Cena was memorable and the triple threat against Cena & Seth Rollins at the Royal Rumble is already being hailed as a genuine match of the year candidate. While I personally am not that crazy about a champion having only defended the title twice in about 6 months, I can understand why it might not be thought of as a big deal by some fans who're used to that sort of thing.

As to the OP's list, it'd be extremely easy to put someone like Kurt Angle, Lou Thesz, Dusty Rhodes, Harley Race, Terry Funk, Antonio Inoki, John Cena and a number of others into the list. In 25 years time, it's not at all unreasonable to think that people would look at guys like Hogan, Austin, The Rock, Flair and others as being comparable to how many fans look at past greats like Lou Thesz or Gene Kiniski in that they're respected and admired but many would believe something like "yeah, those guys were okay but they're nowhere near as interesting or exciting as some guys are today." It's like that with every generation as I'm sure that there were a good number of fans circa 1980 who would've laughed themselves stupid if you'd told them that a big, strong but technically inferior wrestler by the name of Terry Bollea would one day become the biggest star in the history of professional wrestling under the moniker of Hulk Hogan. They'd have immediately dismissed you as an idiot for suggesting that his star would one day eclipse that of guys like Lou Thesz, Verne Gagne and Bruno Sammartino but it happened.
 
At the same Sammartino didn't have to be on TV 25 hours per month. Today a star reigning for a year is damn near equivalent to a decade back then when you account for overexposure

True. But at the same time pro wrestlers had to be flexible enough to get themselves over in a multitude of different areas. Sammartino had to worry about that less than someone like Lou Thesz, as the Northeast was pretty clustered at that point. Working New York City probably wasn't all that different from working Boston due to location. Not like working St. Louis or Chicago in comparison to Los Angeles or Montreal. And back then the newspapers and radio still covered wrestling religiously. So you could follow national and regional story lines even if you didn't live in that area.

Now even with overexposure, a wrestler seemingly just as to be polarizing enough to keep the fans interested. John Cena goes out, talks for 10 minutes and love him or hate him he's charismatic enough to get you to react to him. Today that's enough, and clearly not every superstar can do that. But it seems like that's the only main criteria for being successful. Cena got to be on top for much longer because he's marketable and has a great work ethic.

IMO I think WWE wrestlers today have it a lot easier as a whole than their predecessors. They don't have to be as flexible with their characters or work, they don't have to sell themselves to different types of media in different locations because everything is so readily available, and they have more opportunities to cross over into other entertainment and sports mediums. And of course, a lack of any other competitive promotions certainly helps.
 
Yeah, sorry, but getting over in the era of kayfabe and territories was easy as shit. All you had to do was be white meat babyface or despicable kiss a fan's wife on the mouth heel. People thought it was FUCKING REAL. That's why they got over. Jerry Lawler doesn't get over in today's product with the internet, he got over thanks to kayfabe. Sammartino didn't get over DESPITE the internet, he got over WITHOUT it.

There is no way at ALL that a pre-internet wrestler who did not compete post-internet can ever be considered as much of a great as someone doing it now. Look at Randy Orton, that dude has had so many heel face swaps, and all in the era of dead kayfabe. That's what getting over is. Not coming out and saying "People from City X are stinky Hillbillies!" and then the hero comes out and says "I love the people from City X, You and me are gonna fight bub!"

Arm bar, arm bar, rest hold rest hold, arm bar arm bar, rest hold, back body drop, clothesline, sunset flip, SCOOP SLAM FINISHER! And then the babyface won. No thanks. I truly respect what territory wrestling did, but the product is harder to break into, it's harder to get over in, and it's harder to stay relevant in modern times.
 
Yeah, sorry, but getting over in the era of kayfabe and territories was easy as shit.

Surely you're joking.

All you had to do was be white meat babyface or despicable kiss a fan's wife on the mouth heel. People thought it was FUCKING REAL. That's why they got over.

:lmao:

Many NWA greats had to change up their alignment for the city they worked. Thesz didn't work face in the Northeast or Canada. And it's not like they worked the big cities once a year like WWE stars in the modern era. They worked these cities many times a year. They had to change up their matches constantly so fans saw something different each time. Do you think Sammartino did the same match every time he sold out MSG? Their work had to be much more flexible. It had to be for people to keep thinking it was real.

Jerry Lawler doesn't get over in today's product with the internet, he got over thanks to kayfabe. Sammartino didn't get over DESPITE the internet, he got over WITHOUT it.

The internet is hardly a detriment. Do you not think there weren't smark marks back in those days? Do you think that their weren't dirt sheets? Fans may not have known the action was choreographed but they knew matches were fixed even by the 1920's. That hurt people's perception of wrestling for years.

Fans today know more about the true nature of wrestling than fans did back then , but it changes nothing.

There is no way at ALL that a pre-internet wrestler who did not compete post-internet can ever be considered as much of a great as someone doing it now.

This is the dumbest thing that I have ever heard. As if the stories on the internet somehow make things any harder than the stories being spun by the newspapers, and journalists, and radio back then.

That's what getting over is.

Wrong. To get over nowadays all you need is a polarizing, marketable personality and a unique way to work a match. Everyone has their own set of signature moves and finishers. Everyone works a unique style whether it be high flying, brawling, technical, whatever. That type of monotone working style would not have worked back then, because you had to be flexible and work a variety of styles. The best shooters could brawl, power wrestlers were agile and could do high risk moves. Nowadays you don't see that anymore, save for a few rare exceptions. But at the same time if every superstar worked the same way today then it be boring, so the variety is needed.

But that doesn't mean that wrestlers from the old days couldn't have adapted to the modern style. Clearly they could have. Easily. Only an uneducated moron would think otherwise.

Not coming out and saying "People from City X are stinky Hillbillies!" and then the hero comes out and says "I love the people from City X, You and me are gonna fight bub!"

That's called being polarizing.

I truly respect what territory wrestling did, but the product is harder to break into, it's harder to get over in, and it's harder to stay relevant in modern times.

It's not. Wrestlers today have to develop a unique style and be polarizing for one type of audience. Territorial stars and pre-territorial stars had to develop unique styles and be polarizing for several different types of audiences.

Seriously, read more about wrestling history before you make dumb claims.
 
However, maybe a Japanese wrestling fan, or even an American who watches a lot of Japanese wrestling, might not see a problem as it's very common for a championship to only be defended ever 3 months or so in Japan. That could be a factor in why it's not uncommon for an IWGP Heavyweight Championship reign to last quite a bit as a wrestler might only defend the title 2, 3 or 4 times within a 200 to 300 day run.

While I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment of your thread, as I do feel that in this modern environment the number of title defenses is less likely to be relevant to a large portion of the audience, one reason for that may be the prominence of things like MMA for example, where fans are conditioned for championship matches only occurring with large builds over 3-6 month intervals. And having Brock, an ex-UFC champion as the title holder, many people may draw that parallel.

But I would be remiss not to point out that the IWGP title is not defended as sparingly as you have indicated. The title has been routinely defended every 30 to 45 days for nearly a decade, ironically going back to Lesnar's reign, which included only three defenses in 280 days before New Japan stripped him of recognition as their champion. And the largest percentage of champions prior to Brock defended the belt in equally as routine a manner throughout basically its entire existence minus a small number of outlying reigns.
 
] Jerry Lawler doesn't get over in today's product with the internet, he got over thanks to kayfabe.
There is not a wrestling crowd in any era or time period, under any circumstance, in any corner of the world that a prime Jerry Lawler could not have found a way to get over in front of; especially if he were working heel. To believe otherwise is laughable at best.
 
I can agree with his sentiment, but Jerome Lawler is a horrible example to use. I think that anyone who disagrees that long term relevance was much easier to find in the territories is being illogical, and clutching their rifles a little too tight.
 

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