Why The Undertaker and The Streak SUCKS!!

[AegonTargaryen]

Knowing who you are, I am not surprised that you hate Undertaker.

Undertaker has been a legend. I will like him and accept him back any time, for the sole reason that every time he shows up at WM, he puts on classics. At the end of the day, this is what us fans want to see. Classics. Sorry, the Rock didn't produce classics, and probably Batista won't either. Lesnar had awesome matches with Cena and Punk. Jericho had awesome matches too. Taker too.

I'll take Taker over any other part timer any day.

I agree with you and the fact that The Rock has not produced classics, excluding for his Wrestlemania matches with Austin(which themselves weren't half as athletic and surreal as any HBK or Taker WM classic matches). The notion or thought of Batista having had a single classic match is laughable. His feuds with HHH and edge were sheer boring. Lesnar's matches with HHH, Cena, or Punk will never reach the classic status attained by his WM match with Angle. So yes, if you weigh all these stars in terms of having had "classic wrestlemania" or even classic matches , the only ones who really did have these are Taker(Versus HBK, Angle, Mick Foley in HIAC), Foley(Versus Taker, Michaels and numerous others), Michaels(obviouis). Also, I'd take C M Punk vs Jericho, Jericho vs Michaels, Taker vs HHH over The rock vs Cena.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

I agree with you and the fact that The Rock has not produced classics, excluding for his Wrestlemania matches with Austin(which themselves weren't half as athletic and surreal as any HBK or Taker WM classic matches). The notion or thought of Batista having had a single classic match is laughable. His feuds with HHH and edge were sheer boring. Lesnar's matches with HHH, Cena, or Punk will never reach the classic status attained by his WM match with Angle. So yes, if you weigh all these stars in terms of having had "classic wrestlemania" or even classic matches , the only ones who really did have these are Taker(Versus HBK, Angle, Mick Foley in HIAC), Foley(Versus Taker, Michaels and numerous others), Michaels(obviouis). Also, I'd take C M Punk vs Jericho, Jericho vs Michaels, Taker vs HHH over The rock vs Cena.

Depends on your definition of a classic. I'd argue that Andre vs Hogan is a classic. I'd argue that HOgan vs Rock was a classic. Now I know the "wrestling" in those matches weren't ten star classics. But the storytellling and the surroundings made both of those matches classic imo.

 

[Sundar]

People go on and on about how Taker is such a selfless guy who cares about the business so much. I don't buy it. I give him credit for playing such a cheesy character for so long and keeping fans interested but because of his supernatural character and the invincibility associated with it, he has rarely had to lose cleanly in his career and I don't think he has ever tapped out. Since his character has always been booked strongly I imagine he would have had little reason to play politics. He has also been rather vocal in interviews about his role as a leader backstage. He comes across as a boastful, power hungry guy to me.

He buried DDP when he came over. People point out that he put Maven over at the 2002 Royal Rumble by letting Maven eliminate him but immediately after that happened he absolutely destroyed Maven and buried him. He lost cleanly to Lesnar at No Mercy 2002 but on the very next Smackdown he came out and said that had he not had a broken arm he would have won and that had the match happened 5 years ago he would have won even with a broken arm and leg.

The guy is still mad over the fact that Lesnar got a clean win over him and that he has never beaten him, which is why he confronted Lesnar after he had just lost the UFC title to Cain Velasquez. Honestly he comes across as a dick to me. I bet he was glad when Lesnar resigned back in 2012. At WM30 he is going to stroke his ego and pin Lesnar or maybe even make him tap to extend his overrated streak.

He is probably a dick in real life just like most of the top guys in pro wrestling. The reason he has been nice is because he has rarely ever had to lose cleanly because of the invincibility of his character. I hope what many Taker marks fear about Lesnar's physicality is true and that he beats him up bad enough that Taker would retire after WM30.

 

[shalliin]

That is a lot of words to support a very simple argument. Grab a dictionary and look up 'tautology'.

It boils down to this: the streak is incredibly valuable to the WWE. It may have occurred when someone in the back said 'hey, have you noticed that Mark hasn't lost at Mania' and they made hay with it.

But however it came about, and whatever you think of it, they have a phenomenon on their hand that is more of a spectacle than their own heavyweight championship. And I may have got my MBA from the Paul Heyman Business School, but even I can tell you that you don't just give the streak away until the last possible moment. And knowing that he is legitimately working hurt gives every match that frisson of 'what if this year is it?'

Now. Let's look at the (admittedly subjective) ratings for Taker's last six Wrestlemania matches.

- 2008 v Edge (****1/4)
- 2009 v Shawn Michaels (****3/4)
- 2010 v Shawn Michaels (****3/4)
- 2011 v HHH (****1/2)
- 2012 v HHH (****3/4)
- 2013 v CM Punk (****1/2)

I wish all wrestlers were that good when they're broken down and hurt. I don't agree with those ratings but I enjoyed every single match and didn't feel that Undertaker's mobility impeded the psychology or storytelling. Perhaps the younger guys carried the physicality more...but Undertaker's been like that for a long time. It wasn't him that went off the cell roof, remember?

Donning my Fantasy Booker Hat (earned at the Vince Russo School of Booking) I would eventually book Undertaker to lose at Wrestlemania. I don't know who because we don't know when he's ready to retire. There's no point in having shine if you can't allow someone else a rub.

But the streak far from 'sucks'. It's a moment or thing in the industry that has transcended into the public consciousness like Hulkamania, the Ultimate Warrior, The Rock or Darren Drozdov. They are unwriteable, they cannot be designed, like all the best things in the business.

I agree with most of your post, but I couldn't let one thing slide. You take credit away from Taker's ability when you go out of your way to mention that he wasn't the one to go off the cage. That was an amazing spot, but it was scripted and planned. The fall through the cage was much more brutal as it was not planned and the falling chair nearly crushed Foley's face. the thing most people gloss over or don't understand is that the match would not have happened with a lesser professional then Taker. He did that match with a broken ankle and could barely walk. yet he managed to climb the cell up and then drop drop and continue the match after. He too was wrestling on tacks that Foley littered the ring with once the action was back inside. Taker does not get enough credit for his part of that match.
And he's been that way for almost his entire career putting off surgery and healing time to not miss the major shows and be there when absolutely needed, always willing ot put his body and career on the line. Name another guy in the 6'8"+, 290-340lbs range who could do the moves he did and do them with consistency and utter lack of restrain when his gimmick finally allowed him to move beyond the limits placed on him by the early years of the Deadman role. Just his leaping/flying running clothesline alone is something other guys like Hogan and Nash would never attempt to do even in their primes.

Mable crushes his orbital socket with a bad leg drop and he was back within 2 months when most people would barely be out of the hospital after the time he barely missed. He's had knee issues due to using the Tombstone, staph infections, hip issues due to his apron and ring based leg drops and landings from Old school and flying clotheslines. Part of the reason he started using the LAST RIDE as his finisher was because the wear and tear on his knees and arms from carrying and supporting the weight of his opponents in that position in order to protect them during the move.

As for other posters complaining about the Streak, please remember he's been offering almost every year since WM 21 to loose if it would help the company, and every year they've told him that it was best for business for it to continue. It's not an issue of HIS ego demanding it, it's an issue of right time, right place, right person, in the right position for him to loose it, and they've yet to find that person. It could have been done at anytime in the last 5 and been believable, but if streak broken in 1st HBK match, then 2nd might not happen. And no 2nd HBK retirement match, means no HHH revenge for friend match. No HHH revenge match, no End of Era match. No end of era match no Punk match. Sure could have gone for Taker wanting revenge against shawn for the 2nd taker/hbk match, but then loose most motivation for HHH to want revenge for taker's retiring Shawn.

Punk vs Taker was a good match. It wasn't Takers best. But by no means would I say that Punk absolutely carried the match. If you're talking percentages, a great match should be either 50/50 or 60/40 for the two competitors. the two Taker HBK matches were 50/50 in terms of effort and workload. The HHH Taker matches might have been in the 55-45 range for HHH due mostly to the scripting not necessarily due to physical issues or Taker's physical limits. The Taker punk match after rewatching I would grade as 65/35 for punk. This one did show a little more of Taker's limits due the years of damage he's done to himself, but he was still able to keep pace for most of the match and the finish was good. As long as he can keep a match no less balanced then this, then he has value for his matches at this showcase. I wouldn't want to see him do this on a weekly or monthly basis but for a 1 time a year event, this is more then enough to satisfy me.

 

[shalliin]

If you don't care then why the long rant?

And oh look, the classic overuse of the word "bury". Losing to Taker doesn't bury anyone, (except when he does it literally ) we expect him to win and don't see his opponent any less after their match. If anything they always come out better since despite losing they just had a huge showing in a main event caliber match, in which taker always tries to make the other guy look good.

It's not even a ego thing either, he was willing to let Orton go over during their WM match, but Orton declined out of respect. And they've also figured out a while ago that it's what the people wants, sure this obviously doesn't apply to you but the streak gives another special reason to watch WM, despite it's obvious outcome.

Now obviously father time is catching up to him, and he'll be retiring soon enough, this year could very well be his last. So you won't have to "suffer" that much longer.

Exactly Right!!. Win/Lose doesn't matter when facing Undertaker at this stage of his career, especially if that match against him is at Wrestlemania. Regardless of what the posters and promotional materials will claim, the undertaker match has become THE real main event at Mania. Just being asked to take part in that match has become an honor and a means to elevate and promote his opponents. Take away the 4 HBK/HHH matches and look at how facing Taker helped the careers of his other opponents even though they lost. Orton was floundering and in danger of being thrown out with the trash until Taker showed his support with the offer to loose the mania match. This cemented in people minds that Orton was a star and could be relied on for the future. Sure he's had some issues, but he's been one of the most consistent main eventers aside from Cena since his feud with Taker. he went from beating 'legends' like hacksaw, snuka and the like to facing a still powerful just reaching his peak Undertaker in what should have been if it wasn't, the feud of the year. The entire series of matches they had were every interaction and reference was truly exciting to watch. Edge solidified his place as a true main eventer with his feud against Taker and showed he could hold his own against the top guys in a one on one match during their mania moment. Batista could have ridden his match against Taker for years and did a good job turning it into further successes.
Now that they've done the quartet of matches rounding out the Attitude Era, and he's started facing the new talents, he's in a position to help create new stars with these matches. Even if he's only got a few left, there are lots of people that could slot in for those few positions. And if the streak continues or not, win or loose, just being able to lay claim to having faced The Undertaker at the biggest show case of them all in Wrestlemania will make a persons career.

In the few out of character interviews Mark Calloway's given and it came up, he's always maintained that he would know it was time for him to retire when he felt the guys were having to slow down in order for him to keep up and that if he didn't realize it, he hoped someone in the back would have the balls to tell him to his face that 'Mark, it's time.' and if they did, he'd have to take a hard look at himself to admit if they were right.

 

[shalliin]

Hmmm The Rock.

The Rock was certainly the biggest draw of WM27, 28 and probably WM29.

WM26 main evented by The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels / Streak vs Career, probably the biggest match in Taker's career and WM26 failed to reach over 1 million ppv buyrates.

The 3 next WMs, The Rock was there, all 3 WrestleMania's reached over 1 million PPV buyrates.

Another way to look at it is that those three manias were what, the HHH Taker mania rematch were HHH was out for revenge for Taker retiring his best friend, the 3rd and final End of an Era Hell in the Cell match, and one of the most over guys in recent history and internet darling CM Punk. Each of these alone without Rock might have been enough to push the buyrates over the 1million mark. There's no way to really tell in hindsight. If they could track PPV segments like they do for RAW/Smackdown segments, you'd get a better picture of the real event, because honestly, I would only have tuned in for the Taker match and just surfed through the others here and there. I have no interest in the Rock.

Rock helped it reach those buys, but take out the Taker match and you're back to were they were without Rock, possibly lower.

 

[L@RISANO]

People go on and on about how Taker is such a selfless guy who cares about the business so much. I don't buy it. I give him credit for playing such a cheesy character for so long and keeping fans interested but because of his supernatural character and the invincibility associated with it, he has rarely had to lose cleanly in his career and I don't think he has ever tapped out. Since his character has always been booked strongly I imagine he would have had little reason to play politics. He has also been rather vocal in interviews about his role as a leader backstage. He comes across as a boastful, power hungry guy to me.

He buried DDP when he came over. People point out that he put Maven over at the 2002 Royal Rumble by letting Maven eliminate him but immediately after that happened he absolutely destroyed Maven and buried him. He lost cleanly to Lesnar at No Mercy 2002 but on the very next Smackdown he came out and said that had he not had a broken arm he would have won and that had the match happened 5 years ago he would have won even with a broken arm and leg.

The guy is still mad over the fact that Lesnar got a clean win over him and that he has never beaten him, which is why he confronted Lesnar after he had just lost the UFC title to Cain Velasquez. Honestly he comes across as a dick to me. I bet he was glad when Lesnar resigned back in 2012. At WM30 he is going to stroke his ego and pin Lesnar or maybe even make him tap to extend his overrated streak.

He is probably a dick in real life just like most of the top guys in pro wrestling. The reason he has been nice is because he has rarely ever had to lose cleanly because of the invincibility of his character. I hope what many Taker marks fear about Lesnar's physicality is true and that he beats him up bad enough that Taker would retire after WM30.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/hoffman/article/The-Undertaker-shows-he-s-one-of-the-good-guys-4596924.php

The last time I saw Calaway, it was WrestleMania 29 in April. Undertaker was running his WrestleMania winning streak to 21 matches. It was a grueling, gut-wrenching, brutal match against CM Punk. As usual, Undertaker's match stole the show.

Undertaker won, but he sure looked beat walking back to his dressing room. Each year, it becomes a drama played to the final scene … will Undertaker overcome his injuries and surgeries from last WrestleMania to make another WrestleMania?

I asked him, why do you keep doing this?

"Honestly, I love it, that's why," he said. "I've got 26 years in the business and all these injuries, but WrestleMania has become so huge, it's just hard to walk away from it. I want the audience leaving the stadium going 'Wow!' It's a responsibility I have being a top dog in this business. The crowd will let me know when it's time to leave. They haven't yet.

"And if I didn't perform at WrestleMania, in some strange weird way, I'd feel like I was letting Vince McMahon down. I've been in the WWE for so long, and he's done so much for me."