Why the Attitude Era was special and why "WWE sucks now"

[Radical]

This may not be your typical "Attitude Era was awesome because ..." and "WWE sucks now because ..." thread. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite.

I've been looking back at full episodes of WWE from that beloved Attitude Era right around that boom period in 1998, 1999 and 2000. That's when WWE had some of their highest PPV buys on average. Some of those PPV buy numbers have yet to be replicated or come close even today. Strangely enough WrestleMania is one of the few PPVs that has seen higher buys in the last 3-4 years than they ever saw before. But that is an anomaly as virtually every other PPV especially SummerSlam has seen consistent reduction in PPV buys since 1998.

Ok, so why was the Attitude Era so great?

- It was in that perfect, never able to be replicated again period, where people still weren't 100% sure if Pro Wrestling was real and since crazy stuff was going on in WWE (and WCW) people were interested. Sure, Vince came out and admitted it was scripted but the booming popularity was already there and wasn't going away just yet.

- WWE had serious competition in WCW. WCW did something on national TV probably never before seen on TV before ... have a group take over a TV Show - AKA the NWO took over WCW with 3 of the biggest names in the industry.

- WWE countered with corrupt factions such as The Corporation, Nation of Domination and DX.

- WWE also has pretty much the first ever employee fighting ruthlessly against their employer doing crazy stuff to their boss that a lot of us wished we could do or we just enjoyed seeing happen - AKA Stone Cold vs Vince McMahon.

- What the Attitude Era had were things that had never been done before any significant scale. WWE also had a Hardcore division which was brutal as hell but damn if it wasn't something that caught your attention.

- And some might say the Attitude Era was so great because there was blood, sex and swearing.


But, how did the Attitude Era actually suck?

- People who grew up in that era and loved it tend to only remember the best parts and don't remember a lot of the stupid stuff that we get so mad at WWE for doing today that they did back in the Attitude Era too!

- Illogical booking! That's probably the biggest one. Go back and look at a go-home Raw or a PPV. They are NOT all well-built. Be honest and you will agree they aren't all golden. Look at a go-home Raw and you'll see maybe only 3 or 4 matches for the upcoming PPV addressed in any way. Look at a PPV card and you'll see only ONE title being defended (probably the WWE title) and you'll see a bunch of 'personal feud' matches that have no title implications or any other significant implications but they are on a PPV that got huge buys. Why? Well in that era's time it was because the WWF title picture was captivating enough with Stone Cold, Rock, Taker, Kane, Mankind, McMahon etc. all involved that people I guess weren't as critical of the rest of the card because they loved the main event so much.

- Useless "comedy" matches. Look at any Oddities or Head Bangers segment. It's a big joke just like you might say Santino Marella was or Fandango or Adam Rose is now but they had silly characters back then too!

- Title holders left off the card. Go-home Raws and PPVs where every title holder doesn't really have a feud or anything going for them. Yet these folks should all having SOMETHING going for them but not always. Happens today too but people complain about it more.

- Super short segments or matches. Yes, the Attitude Era also had matches that were "squashes" of well-known guys or beat downs shortly after a match started. People complain today because not enough matches have 'finishes' but in the Attitude Era there was more chaos and less actual GOOD wrestling. Most of wrestling back then was just killing time until a big run-in angle. Maybe WWE needs more of that today but you have to admit WWE does give a lot more quality matches in all their programming now than they did before.


So why does "WWE suck" so much now?

- Illogical booking
- Useless "comedy" matches/segments
- Title holders left off card/without a feud
- Short segments or matches

See what I did there?

WWE isn't actually much worse today than it was in the beloved Attitude Era unless you only loved the Attitude Era because it had blood, sex and swearing. If you loved it because of that then, yes, it 'sucks' today because that aspect of it is not coming back.

What happened in the Attitude Era was truly unique. It really can't be replicated.

TV was different back then. Less channels and Internet was so sophisticated like today that made it easy to find spoilers and watch PPVs or shows any other way than they provided it. YouTube, believe it or not, was not around during the Attitude Era.

And yes, WCW was a legit threat and competition breeds innovation and demands quality.

Today, there are thousands of TV channels, millions of Internet sites and YouTube shows and Netflix and all sorts of other programming that simply doesn't give WWE the same possibility for ratings and buys that they once had.

Once the cat was let out of the bag by Vince, WCW was over, WWE went more PG, a bunch of fans slowly started to be done with pro wrestling. WWE (and WCW) did their big angles and now if they tried them again people would just go 'Lame! Been done before!" Those are the fans you can't get back. They loved the Attitude Era and anything done now is either not gritty enough or has been done before.

What I'm trying to say is. The Attitude Era was a rare and special time of Pro Wrestling that I cannot see ever being replicated again. It was a case of the right place at the right time with the right cast of characters and the right competition. That chuck of "pro wrestling" fans that left around 2003 and on aren't coming back because they may have loved the Attitude Era for R-rated reasons and they are now fans of Walking Dead, Sons of Anarchy or Game of Thrones. Obviously, they can't be interested in WWE anymore because it can't be like those shows.

What WWE has to do is realize that to get new fans they need to start young again and find out what the youngsters want while trying to still give hardcore, diehard fans what they want. When you think of it that way, you realize why John Cena is on top of the card all the time and there is Hornswoggle and a Bunny running around from time to time and then sometimes you'll see a hard-hitting match like The Shield vs Wyatt Family for the hardcore fans.

WWE still has to find a better balance though. Their ratings and PPV buys are lower than they could be. They won't get back up to 400,000 PPV buys (except WM) and won't get back up to 10 Million viewers but they should still aim for 200,000 buys on reg. PPVs and 300,000 buys on the big ones and 4 million viewers for Raw.

My questions to you are:

Do you agree with my assessment of the Attitude Era vs Toady's WWE?

and

Understanding that WWE isn't going back to TV-14 stuff anytime soon and they do have to cater to the kids while still pleasing the diehard hardcore fans, what are 3-5 simple steps they can take to do that?

 

[Redemption-2012]

I don't often post anymore on here but all I will say is that the WWE need to simplify everything and make things more believable. People keep yapping about how great the Attitude Era was and yes it was indeed great but the WWE have been dealt a set of cards to deal with. Today, they don't have the same freedom or creativity that they used to have 10-15 years ago. They aren't in the same position that they were, the creative team aren't experienced and know nothing about wrestling.

The world has changed significantly since the AE, another attitude era would never be accepted in today's society. If WWE over complicate things such as cramming way too much storylines into a short space of time, the fans are going to get sick of that.

I believe that the product is overexposed way too much. The WWE need to lower the amount of "special events" that they have. There are way too much, few special events and more "quality storylines" along with pushing guys correctly and not dropping the ball.

I hope I made a good contribution.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

In 1997-1998 the Attitude Era really was all about the main event. There were probably two matches on any PPV you wanted to see. Austin/Undertaker and Rock/HHH. Or Rock/Foley and Austin/McMahon. Then the midcard featured guys like Ken Shamrock, Val Venis, X-Pac, D-Lo and comedy acts like The Oddities and Goldust. These guys are certainly respectable midcard acts but definitely a step below the main event guys.

However later in 1999-2000 the roster got stacked with midcard talent ready to push through to the main event. So while you still had Rock/HHH/Austin/Undertaker in the main events... Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, The Hardyz, Edge and Christian, The Dudleyz, were filling out the undercard and ultimately stealing the show.

It's hard for any roster in any era to compete with that much talent. WWE is close right now, John Cena and Randy Orton are established main event guys, and have been surrounded by guys like CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Seth Rollins, The Uso's, etc. So I'd say the match quality now is at least close to the 2000 era and much better than the 1998 era.

In terms of television though, this is where the biggest difference is. First, a 3 hour show is simply too long and they don't pack the show with more wrestling or stories, they have just added more filler to stretch the time out. It's literally the same as the 2 hour show just with more filler. It is a struggle to get through all 3 hours.

Secondly, they don't write the show the same. Like him or hate him, Russo and McMahon had a formula for RAW back in the attitude era... Beginning, middle, and end. Every show had it's own unique mini storyline weaved throughout the show. The main event story would start at the beginning at 9PM, let's say with Austin/McMahon. Something would happen that would make you want to sit and see what would happen later in the show. They'd have a bunch of backstage stuff to further this angle, then at the middle of the show at 10PM you'd get the next chapter, where things would escalate, which would really set things up for the main event. So you stick around until 11PM where you'd finally get some resolution from what started at 9PM. It was easy to sit through these shows because you couldn't change the channel or risk missing something important. RAW isn't written this way now. You're lucky if they do a beginning and an end. But there's no middle. You'll have a John Cena segment/promo to set up the main event 3 hours later, then nothing.... just unrelated segment after segment until you finally get to the main event. You could miss the entire middle of the show and not actually miss anything.

 

[MartialHorror]

I won't say one is better than the story, but I prefer anti-heroes over traditional heroes in wrestling. The Rock was always the Rock, whether he was a face or a heel. If there was a change, storylines would often acknowledge it- such as Stone Cold turning into a wimp.

But now look at Daniel Bryan. It's like his face character is a totally different person from his heel character. I just don't like that level of face pandering. But that's personal preferences. The attitude era also occasionally made me uncomfortable with some of its angles, whereas even current WWE's dumbest ideas are usually harmless.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

Nothing is going to change until Vince steps down. First and foremost. He runs the show. Everything begins and ends with him.

Second, he is sort of hamstrung because the USA network and specifically the sponsors do not want to see an AE again. They do not want the WWE to go in that direction.

Now that doesn't mean that Vince can't do a better job with creative. PG doesn't mean it has to be all kiddie. He can push the envelope some. Creative is absolutely putrid right now.


Lack of competition hurts everyone. Thanks to the Carters and specifically Dixie that will never happen.

 

[GeminiGarlord]

You forgot the Crass Toilet Humour in the "why it sucked" part of the post. I really could not stand a lot of the segments.

 

[lil steroid meat]

I think nostalgia makes us think the Attitude Era was better than it was and internet devil's advocate guys try to make it seem like it sucked.

In my opinion, the thing that made the Attitude Era special, was that dudes had a lot more freedom in promos, and everyone had a purpose.

And even after the Attitude Era, the WWE was pretty good up until the Benoit thing which forced them to drastically change their content. But it's been long enough as to where they can get back to that 2005-2006 level content wise, where its not as bad as the Attitude Era, but it's also not super tamed and heavily scripted promos (although I'm sure they started scripting their stuff long before Benoit, probably started when they went public because thats when they first had to start being mindful of their content).

Nowadays, promos are heavily scripted (and this has visibly hurt guys like Roman Reigns who always sounds like he's reading an old 80's action movie script, instead of being the cool dude he probably is in real life) and up until recently with Miz and Dolph, the midcard titles had no real storylines.

Here's the fix for today's WWE:

1) Let guys write their own promos and dictate the direction of their own characters

2) Have separate writing divisions for each tier of stars. Have a Main Event Writing Team, a Midcard Writing Team, and Lowcard/Comedy Segment/Jobber Writing Team, and a Women's Writing Team.

 

[Starkist]

I don't think the Attitude Era was all that great. It was entertaining for what it was worth. Today's product is like the attitude era but completely toned down. It is like 1% Milk versus Whole Milk. Watered down with the taste of milk but we all know it is mainly water. The reason why people think the Attitude Era is more entertaining than today's product is because the matches that took place at that time. What we know nowadays about concussions, blood diseases, and the habits wrestlers pick up (Jeff Hardy, Angle i.e) is why a lot of WWE is so toned down. They see the violent actions as a risk an probably instated stricter safety guidelines to not endanger wrestlers well beings. My opinion.

Today is just like it was years ago, if you don't sit and stare so hard at the TV to where your eyes bulge out your skull you might see that.

 

[The Jeff]

Back then, you couldn't get me to leave my house on Monday and Thursday nights, nowadays, you can't get me to stay awake for the main event. Once I see Ziggler and Ambrose, I know I have seen everything I want to see that night

 

[Honkey_Kong]

OP, only the mentally handicapped and the under 10 years old crowd didn't know wrestling was scripted back then. So don't use that as an excuse for anything.

The reason WWE was better back then was because it had more exciting spots in the matches (and in the storyline builds).

It also was shocking. The stuff they did was pushing the boundaries of standards and practices (even though it was a joke compared to what ECW did on their late night show).

We really didn't know what was going to happen next. And you can't blame that problem now on the internet. Even in the late 80's, you had no problem getting Scoops off the Fidonet. In the 90's you had tons of IRC channels, BBSes and early web pages dedicated to wrestling. And more often than now, their rumours were correct. But that problem is due to this myth the kids of today seem to believe that we were basically in the stone age in the 90's. We had mostly the same things that are around today (just not as high tech). Watch old episodes of Raw and Nitro and look for Scoops signs.

 

[Mudlup50]

We really didn't know what was going to happen next. And you can't blame that problem now on the internet. Even in the late 80's, you had no problem getting Scoops off the Fidonet. In the 90's you had tons of IRC channels, BBSes and early web pages dedicated to wrestling. And more often than now, their rumours were correct. But that problem is due to this myth the kids of today seem to believe that we were basically in the stone age in the 90's. We had mostly the same things that are around today (just not as high tech). Watch old episodes of Raw and Nitro and look for Scoops signs.

I would really like to know what signs I am looking for personally, I know this comment isn't directed toward me but I am curious

 

[BuriedByCena]

My PC messed up and post got erased......... So....

- WWE attitude everyone had a character, storyline and everyone was over. Everyone was being used no matter how dumb or smart it seems now.

- The roster consisted of memorable characters like the Godfather(pimp), Val Venis(Pron star), RTC(FCC joke team), Billy Gunn (Mr A**), Al Snow(head), Hardcore Holly, Goldust(whatever freak he is LOL), Gangrel(vampire), Steve Blackman, Ken Shamrock and tons more.

All of those guys were mid carders but they all had storylines, characters and memorable feuds. Where are those now?

They also had Tag Teams like the APA(drunk bada**es), The headbangers, New age outlaws, E&C. Soon later Hardys and Dudleys would come and give us the best Tag Team wrestling ever. They still had the old ones too in the transition period.

Then we had the main eventers who were all EQUAL. Don't get confused. Stone Cold was NOT #1. No way. Everyone LOVED all of them back in the day. Stone Cold, Rock, HHH, Mankind, Taker, Kane....were all mega over.

Then later on we got Benoit, Angle, Jericho, Rey, Malenko, Eddie and TONS more to end the attitude era which went into the ruthless aggression stuff.

Todays WWE....

Main Attration: John Cena.
Main Eventers who do nothing: Sheamus, Randy Orton
Everyone else: Jobbers to Cena/Mid card with no storylines. Miz, Sandow, Ziggler, Kofi, Bray wyatt, Barrett....the ENTIRE ROSTER that is NOT Cena.

None of these guys have characters. They are all bland babyfaces. They smile to the ring and job to Cena.

Or the Heels get build up to bury Ziggler and people they care about....so they can get fed to Cena.

Cena....Cena....Cena. THAT is the current WWE. And you wonder why older fans want the attitude back and they praise Ambrose, Rollins, CM punk and Ziggler because they are the ONLY guys on the roster to show some guts/attitude and are willing to add some character.

But what do I know? Maybe I should just accept adam rose and big e langston as cool..........

 

[PeterSellersSTL]

Whenever I hear HHH in interviews like his one with Jericho or speak about the Performance Center and NXT, I can hear the hunger in him that he wants to top the Attitude Era. The WWE.com interview with Zayn Steen and Hideo, guys are itching to go.

I think it can be done, and I'll give my reasons why.

1. The attitude era was relatively short lived, 5 years 1998 - 2003. The longevity can be surpassed, Cena's 10 years as the face of the WWE has proven that. Austin had 6 title reigns from 1998 to December 2001. Rock's last reign ended August 2002. Cena unfortunately has the longevity but isn't the character Austin or Rock was. I'd happily take Dean Ambrose for the next 8 years with as much range as he has. I also don't think we'll be saddled with one or two stars to carry a company with and we won't see 16 title reigns by one guy. Gimme 6 guys that I can put the big belt on and trust to headline WM's for 8 years. I think WWE is fast approaching critical mass and there's going to be competition for those spots.

2. The divas division will be to WWE, what the cruiserweight division was to WCW. A really great self contained division. Women are a bigger part of the WWE audience than they ever were before. Lita and Trish were great but the overall depth of women's wrestling in WWE is incredible.

3. NXT is the catch-all for all talent, untapped or seasoned. WWE has no competition but luckily HHH saw the need to rebuild the roster. NXT is going to be an invaluable resource in stacking the WWE roster with talent that can rival any era. It also serves as its own brand and competition for the main roster. It's the best of all worlds.

4. Diversity of talent - short guys, big men, different looks, different body types and a renewed focus on characters. And WWE hasn't forgotten about the big guys you got Big Cass, Baron Corbin, Luke Harper, Konnor, Rowan. You got throwback big stout burly guys like Bull Dempsey, Bray Wyatt, Rusev, Steen, Willie Mack and these guys can move too. We're not being force fed the oiled up body builders of the ruthless aggression era. There's a diversity of styles and that always makes for good match ups.
You got brawlers, workhorses, technicians, high flyers etc.

5. The Network - I wasn't able to order every PPV like I am now and you can't beat that, especially if WWE gets good again. I can't say enough how much I loved Wrestlemania week leading up to WM30.

But of course this is if everything goes right. Vince has to step aside and take Cena Lawler and Dunn with him. 3 hour RAWs and throwaway Smackdowns are holding things back and burning out creative as well. You can't fill the hours they're expected to.

WWE has things to fix to be sure but I don't find myself longing for the attitude days as much as I use to. It's more so frustration with today's unrealized potential. I want to like WWE's product because I see so much in it. I'm sure HHH feels the same.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

I feel that the boards are now largely divided between people who go "omg Austin was great!!" and "Ugh Attitude Era was so bad."

Personally, I grew up during the AE and I absolutely loved each and every over the top moment it had. From Sable's handprint boobs, to Rock's ridiculous ctahcphrases, to Austin shenanigans, to Mick Foley's evolution, to Kane and Taker, to DX, crotch chops, middle fingers the whole shabang!

I would personally not trade that for any other time in wrestling, not even Rock N'Wrestling. AE was not about well crafted storyline, all the while Mr. McMahon Vs Austin was an amazing slow burn that culminated to the era after Mania 14.


WWE now is great for me. Good superstars, great workers, great talkers and a lot I can get behind. If you're talking boom period wise, ye well, a lotta things that we have no control over have to align for that. WWE PG is fine, its great actually. I got to see Cena Vs Rock and Rock Vs Punk and Bryan pretty much get the biggest pay off ever in Mania history. Its all pretty cool then and now.