Why Isn't HHH An Icon?

[Altabane]

Having classic matches doesn't make you an Icon. If I go up to Non-Wrestling Fan A, and ask them to name a wrestler you'll get:

Hulk Hogan
The Rock
Andre The Giant
John Cena
Steve Austin

In that order. Shawn Michaels is probably the best all around wrestler of all time, but when he was on top, the company was getting it's ass beat. Also, if you ask Non-Wrestling Fan A who Shawn Michaels is, you'll get this, "Who?"

Shawn Michaels is not an icon, Bret Hart is not an icon, Triple H is not an icon. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Jenna.]

Like most said I think HHH never received icon status, because he unfortunately performed in an era that was dominated by Austin and The Rock, and he played a heel throughout that era. Heels aren't really loved the way faces are.

HHH was an absolute beast in the ring, not the best wrestler, but a beast, someone you didn't want to fuck with in a dark alley, which was great and his mic skills were pretty good too, but feuding against Austin and Rocky he just couldn't hang with them. Entertaining character and wrestler but just never enough to really push him over the top as far as icon status.

Even now his face run just seems forced, his pops seem forced and just the simple fact he married into power, I don't think fans are really warm to that.

 

[Honkey_Kong]

Like most said I think HHH never received icon status, because he unfortunately performed in an era that was dominated by Austin and The Rock, and he played a heel throughout that era. Heels aren't really loved the way faces are.

HHH was an absolute beast in the ring, not the best wrestler, but a beast, someone you didn't want to fuck with in a dark alley, which was great and his mic skills were pretty good too, but feuding against Austin and Rocky he just couldn't hang with them. Entertaining character and wrestler but just never enough to really push him over the top as far as icon status.

Even now his face run just seems forced, his pops seem forced and just the simple fact he married into power, I don't think fans are really warm to that.

Heels aren't loved and respected like faces are? What about Flair? or Ted Dibiase? I know both played faces during parts of their careers, but they're both remembered for being the biggest villains in the sport. Hell, the Greenville Memorial Auditorium was referred to as "The House that Ric Flair Built." If that doesn't describe icon status, I don't know what will.

 

[Jenna.]

Heels aren't loved and respected like faces are? What about Flair? or Ted Dibiase? I know both played faces during parts of their careers, but they're both remembered for being the biggest villains in the sport. Hell, the Greenville Memorial Auditorium was referred to as "The House that Ric Flair Built." If that doesn't describe icon status, I don't know what will.

That's very true but to most wrestling fans yeah those two might be idolized but they still aren't on the levels of Hulk Hogan, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, etc (maybe Flair) who also played heels, but mostly remembered for being faces.

 

[slice_of_life]

I think in the devout wrestling fans eye HHH's career is tainted because he has benefited from 10 years of nepotism. He won 4 of 6 elimination chambers. that speaks for itself. the most absurd example of his benefical treatment is that he beat Punk at Night of Champions. To me the guys career is tainted. Even before he was married to Stephanie, he was swinging on Shawn Michaels balls. I'm not saying the guy couldn't have gotten been as big as he is without the help he has received, but we'll never know. His arrogance and nepotism from the McMahon family is a large reason the WWE is where it is today.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I basically agree with what Black Dynamite said earlier

To add my own little points
He never had a mega face run. If you look at most of the known guys, I'm talking people who non wrestling fans are more than likely to have heard of, they all had huge face runs. Hogan, Austin, The Rock, Cena. Foley was aided by his out of the ring exploits. He had 3 NY Times best sellers.

He married into the company. I'm not gonna sit here and say he only married Stephanie to gain access to the higher ups or anything like that but his best success didn't come until after he married her. Its hard to look at that as just a coincidence

Despite him being a great heel he was usually overshadowed by someone. In the original heel DX Shawn was the leader. In the DX where he was the leader you had Road Dogg, who was fairly poor in the ring but he was good on the mic, and even off the mic he was always in feuds with bigger stars like Rock. In Evolution you had Flair, who is probably the only heel who has the major recognition I mentioned earlier, plus you had Batista and a young Orton. Then in the more PG face DX Shawn's goofy character still usually outshined him

Another reason I think he has yet to reach that status is because he is usually perceived as a huge backstage influence and its usually stated that he doesn't like to cleanly put other guys over. Most people dislike that fact

Plus he is still active in a fairly active role. He took over as COO, then had the in ring feuds with Punk, Awesome Truth, and Nash over the summer and fall.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

Triple H IS an icon and its absolute disrespect to call an absolute legend like Hulk Hogan a con man. I don't know what you would base that statement on and I don't really want to know to be honest.

Triple H has had some of the most classic matches of all time and has had more title reins than almost anyone as well as remaining the top dog for at least half a decade (1999 to about 2005). There's no denying that triple H is probably even more of an icon than piper. Its funny you used him as an example because if it wasn't for "con man" Hogan piper probably wouldn't even be famous at all.

Whatever Bischoff.

Piper helped make Hogan just as much as Hogan helped make Piper. People always forget that it takes two to start a feud. Without the heel the face is nothing and vice versa. Piper was equally talented and equally over(as a heel) as Hogan was.

As far as Triple H I think it has to do with the shitty politics he played. Everybody has played politics at one time or another but Trips took it to a whole different level. He still injects himself into story lines when he shouldn't be in them.

Plus being around with both the Rock and Stonecold doesn't help either.

IMO the word icon is thrown around way too easily. There are only three true icons in wrestling and they are Hogan, Rock and Austin. They changed the face of wrestling.

 

[mrfantastic111]

Lets be honest. HHH was never the top guy in the company when the WWE was at its peak. Sure he was fed to us and people enjoyed watching him, but he was never the Rock or Stone Cold. He was more of an Undertaker - an awesome superstar, but he was never number one.

You could definitely make the argument that HHH was number one in the WWE once the invasion storyline was over, and took the lead spot from 2002-5, but that was when the popularity of WWE was simmering down, partially due to the end of the attitude era and the losses of former top stars Rock and Austin.

Also, whilst HHH was number one in the company from 2002-5 he was a heel and didn't do anything huge or memorable. Rock and Austin became icons by doing things large an in charge every week. HHH on the other hand spent most of 2002-5 marching to the ring in a suit, screwing people over.

However, I do respect HHH and believe that he is an icon. Not a pop icon or an icon for being number one from the beginning to the end of time, but because of what he did to revolutionize his character - He was a newer-age faction leader, a control freak, a ring genius. I feel that HHH is an icon for the same reasons that Edge, HBK, Hogan etc are icons - they brought new character traits with them to the ring which newer wrestlers looked at and took notes from so that they could build their own characters. I see some HHH in alot of newer wrestlers, like the old Drew McIntyre, Sheamus, Wade Barret, Edge, old school Batista, Orton, Bobby Rhode. Hell, even the post 2007 Jericho featured some cerebral suit wearing traits of the old HHH.

 

[crippler]

Well Triple H doesn't have that 1 or more matches people can't forget, but guys like HBK, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, The Rock, Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage have matches people still remember today. Also When people talk about Degeneration X its the 1997 Degeneration X people think of back when Triple H road HBK's coattail.

 

[crippler]

Triple H IS an icon and its absolute disrespect to call an absolute legend like Hulk Hogan a con man. I don't know what you would base that statement on and I don't really want to know to be honest.

Triple H has had some of the most classic matches of all time and has had more title reins than almost anyone as well as remaining the top dog for at least half a decade (1999 to about 2005). There's no denying that triple H is probably even more of an icon than piper. Its funny you used him as an example because if it wasn't for "con man" Hogan piper probably wouldn't even be famous at all.

Hogan is a con look at what he has done since his final exit of WWE . As far as him making Piper if it wasn't for Piper Hogan would never had looked as good as he did back then and probably wouldn't had been champion as long as he was. Piper is also not most rembered for anything to do with Hogan but for his coconut smash on Superfly Jimmy Snuka. Some of his feuds in Mid-Atlantic Wrestling were epic such as with Flair and Jack Birisco

 

[Smokeydogg7]

austin is the best in history so no need trying to get hhh on his level is not happening

their are tons of attitude era stars and hhh is one of them but he cant compare to austin or the rock

the rock and austin built each other up with their great fueds so many big moments

even mic foley with all his crazy hardcore moments i mean u know if foley wrestles at mania your gonna get a omg holy shit moment

if austin wrestles its gonna blow the roof off the place same with the rock

part of it has to do with being retired or semi retired but it also has to do with their track record of big moments in the past

hhh will give u a good match like with taker but apart from that what will he do will he go through a burning table like foley or refuse to submit and pass out in a pool of blood like austin will he go to the announcers table mid match and call his own match like the rock

your career is based off big moments look at the rock austin and foley then at hhh and you will see why he is not on their level but hes still a legend in my book id pay to see a match with hhh and i did with mania and night of champions and tlc

 

[RicSpade]

I think there is a lot of reasons why he was never considered as an icon to people but lets go back and review, look at guys like Rock, Austin, Cena, Andre the Giant, etc. the main reason these guys are relevant because when they were noticed they weren't somebodies lackey, I mean think about it Rocky came to his own joining the nation, but quickly took over because really he was their only champion and Ron Simmons was losing relevance as a leader and heel. Austin may have came in as the ringmaster and then Stone Cold with Ted Dibiase but broke out on his own and made his name with the infamous Austin 3:16.

Hulk Hogan is another prime example, he may have been in the AWA before coming to the WWE, but he was never a champion until he stepped foot in the WWE ring and beat the Iron Shiek to win the title, and from there Hulkamania went wild, Ric Flair was the leader of the four hosemen and never really took a backseat, Andre the 8th wonder of the world who use to wrestle 2-3 men at a time, was the main staple in the heenan family in the mid 80's could never be forgotten just because of his sheer size. And today's era you have John Cena and while they may not have him directly in the limelight he started off wanting to make a name for himself in Kurt Angle, and later doing his rap gimmick and coming into his own as a star...

So lets look at Triple H's legacy Triple H started off as his own guy in Hunter Hearst Helmsley an arrogant snob in a time where goofy gimmicks like the Duke the Dumpster Drose, and The pig Farmer Henry Godwinn ran rampant in WWE. Around the time he found himself as Triple H he was being held down anyways for the infamous final curtain with Razor, Diesel, Kid, etc. when he was finally put down as some importance by being involved in DX but again IMO was shadowed by HBK, Then he took over, but it was the same goof, and was gaining relevance only to then head to the corporation where he wasn't yet relevant as The Rock was the focal point, it wasn't until Trips won the first title that he started really getting momentum and then once the revival of DX and him and Steph took over running Raw did we really see a change, but look at the facts he wasn't really Wrestlemania main event material until Wrestlemania 16 when he still co-main evented with Big Show, Rock, and Foley by that time Austin had main evented twice, Rock was the main heel turned face. Triple H didn't even run a singles main event in WWE until wrestlemania 18 which he only had because he returned from serious injury. so here we are 10 years later from Wrestlemania 18, and since then HHH has been a double digit champion, held every title thinkable, and is now running the show. Is he icon status IMO yes, but its the amount of time it took to show he was on top is why there are many who watched him under a microscope and said he never made it.

 

[dman1373]

its because he was not that good.
Look at the guys that your talking about. Each one did something very well. And people seem to say stuff like, "damn, the rock cuts such great promos." or "damn, stone cold is such a cool badass." or "damn mick foley is crazy motherf'er and he seems like a fun person". But what can you say about triple h.

You also have to take into account that he is a pretty bland character. Atleast compared to the other significant people you mentioned.

And also no one remembers him in his prime because he hasn't been in his prime for like 6 or 7 years. I mean since his matches with batista, what has he done that really stands out. Nothing really, hes just been wondering aimlessly through meaningless matches.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

But I think Hunter loves playing a heel and is so easy to hate in that role. He is the perfect antagonist. He is not a big legend in the business is because he has always stuck around and almost always been heel. I know many people will tend to disagree to this and cite examples like Piper who went to iconic status even as heels, well Piper had a good face run in the early 90s with the whole Bret angle for me. And he was trumpeted as an ICON belligirently in WCW, I dunno.

I think that the difference between HHH and Piper is that Piper was Hogan's biggest antagonist until the arrival of Andre The Giant and some people still rate Hogan vs Piper as Hogan's best feud. In comparison HHH was never the biggest antagonist of either Austin or Rock because they had themselves as antagonists. The defining rivalry of the Attitude Era was Austin vs Rock, not Austin vs HHH or Rock vs HHH. Perhaps you could say the same for the Hogan era where Hogan vs Andre was the defining rivalry but you have to remember that in the Attitude Era all these rivalries took place almost simultaneously which has led to the significance of the Rock/ HHH and the Austin/ HHH rivalries being lost in the shuffle as compared to the Rock/ Austin feud which was the standout feud of that era.

I think the reasons for HHH not being an icon have already been well elucidated in this thread. He has been a heel for most part of his career and heels are not accepted that easily into the pop culture because they are hated in kayfabe. He has also been around for a long while and for a large number of those years, he has not been the major player inside the WWE.

I think that the fact that HHH is not as flashy a performer as say, Austin, Rock or Foley could be another reason. Austin was a cool redneck rebel, Rock was the greatest trash talker of all time and Foley was a crazy motherfucker. In comparison HHH was just an arrogant heel. He has been a great wrestler no doubt but he does not have a standout characteristic like the aforementioned three wrestlers. That same reasoning can be applied to Kurt Angle as well if you think about it.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

This says it all right here. When HHH stops being an active wrestler, you'll see him get him rightful recognition

That's the thing however I think HHH's career is to tainted for us to ever see him as that. He has buried a constand amount of guys and is below alot of our favorites. HHH will always be that guy who's one of the best in the game but will always have an asterick by his name.

 

[Huey]

That's the thing however I think HHH's career is to tainted for us to ever see him as that. He has buried a constand amount of guys and is below alot of our favorites. HHH will always be that guy who's one of the best in the game but will always have an asterick by his name.

I don't think it's just that. I think HHH has some some great things but I think he'll be remembered for marrying Stephanie and the DX invasion at WCW arena. He's got a career full of good matches and solid feuds but I think it's lacking special events.

Flair had the 4 horsemen and all the title reigns. Hulk Hogan's feud with Andre, Piper, Mr. T, Macho Man and probably the biggest and best heel turn ever, even the WM match with The Rock. Austin had the coming out moment as stone cold, the development of Mr. McMahon as a character and stunning him the first time, the beer truck.

It's not that HHH isn't good, he certainly is one of the best. There' just a difference between being one of the best and being the best.

 

[brighamosity]

That's the thing however I think HHH's career is to tainted for us to ever see him as that. He has buried a constand amount of guys and is below alot of our favorites. HHH will always be that guy who's one of the best in the game but will always have an asterick by his name.

I agree. I don't know what it was, but face or heel, I have always disliked Triple H. Maybe I'm biased for being in the IWC, but I always feel like his promos make people look bad. Even last year when he was doing these promos with CM Punk, I was sitting there thinking, "Why is he saying this stuff? It's making CM Punk look like a chump!"

Katie Vick will always be something that stands out in my mind. The irony of it all was that it was supposed to make Kane look bad, but I think it made Triple H look worse.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

In my eyes, Trips is and has been an icon for a long while. Whether you're a fan of him or not, which is the case with every wrestler, you can't deny that Triple H is hugely talented guy that's been involved in some of the most memorable feuds & matches of the past 15 years or so and just happened to win 13 World Championships along the way.

I'm sure there will be some that won't look at Trips with such high esteem regardless of what he's accomplished in his career. One reason for that is due to the fact that he's been so closely involved with the McMahons, eventually marrying into the family. There are still fans to this day that ignorantly go spouting off that Trips' relationship with Stephanie McMahon is the only reason why he became such a big star and force within the WWE.

 

[FanSince85]

There's a difference between being a pop culture icon and a wrestling icon. So you have to be specific in which label you want to apply to him.

Hogan, Rock, Austin, Cena, McMahon and Savage are all pop culture icons. Everyone knows them for whatever reason. The nWo and DX as groups were also a big part of pop culture during their time in the mid to late 90's as well. With all the athletes copying their signature poses and catch phrases at the time.

Some of the explanations in this thread are just crazy. Flair was THE heel of the 80's. He had a few runs as face but was just about always a heel.

Foley is an icon in wrestling. Back in his WCW days taking the powerbomb on the concrete, all the death matches in Japan, his work in ECW, and the work he put in with WWF/E are what makes him an icon to someone who was watching wrestling back then.

Did someone really say Dusty Rhodes never carried a company? That dude was huge in his prime and was always over. He sold out arenas everywhere he went and was one of the most popular faces in history.

Whoever said H isn't an icon because he's still active is probably right. Once he's gone off tv he will get evaluated on his total body of work and you can figure out where he stands at that point within the wrestling business. He will never be a pop culture icon.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Actually its a pretty simple answer, HHH doesn't have the "x factor". The X factor is that intangible quality that can't be described but its something that draws people to them, its a combination of look, quality and unmatched charisma.

HHH is a very solid wrestler, he understands wrestling, has solid mic skills and is built like a brick house but to be a mainstream icon it takes more than that. Its not just in wrestling but everywhere. Its the same reason why guys like Tim Duncan gets overlooked over someone like Shaq (even in seasons where Shaq wasn't playing well and Duncan was at his best), they are just more likeable they have a certain quality that draws people to them even though Duncan in his prime was a tremendous player and led his team to 4 NBA titles, Shaq didn't do anything in the NBA that Duncan didn't but Shaq got all the media attention because he's Shaq.

It takes more than just being great in the ring to be an icon of the business, its hard to explain the X-factor but its needed to be an icon and prominent in pop culture, Austin, Rock, Hogan and Shaq have it, HHH and Duncan do not.

 

[Shotaro]

Because,frankly, HHH isn't that great, he's good sure, better than at least 90% of the current Roster, but he isn't the best. At anything, he's not even the best "Jack of all Trades" type of guy. He's just very good at what he needs to be good at.

He doesn't excel - he doesn't seem to live his character like 'Taker or steal the best match of the year like HBK, he doesn't change the perception of Wrestling like Hogan or Austin, he didn't break out on his own and become a mega star like the Rock. He didn't become the biggest draw in the US before a national wrestling company existed like Ric Flair, he hasn't redefined bumps or taken technical wrestling to the next level. He wasn't the first Hispanic WWE champion,he wasn't the first middleweight WWE champion, he wasn't the best on the microphone.

He's just shy of an icon, and in all honesty he will never be one.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

A lot of factors play in here. The fact that while being a huge name and decent draw, he never achieved the heights that others have and it hurts him. Also the fact that he married into the McMahon family is just too much for some people to overlook. They always say he doesn't deserve to be where he is as well. Last but not least...he never had that defining feud. He had some very memorable ones. But he never had an Austin/Rock or Austin/McMahon or Hogan/Andre type of career making feud.

 

[FlairFan2003]

exactly who has Trips held down ? Ive seen him put over Austin, Taker, Flair, HBK, Cena, Benoit, Angle, Sheamus, where is the long list of guys that Trips held back ?
We all know that for years HBK refused to put over anyone, literally to the point he was threatened by Vince that he'd be gone forever if he screwed up WrestleMania in 98. Stories of Hogan refusing to job, even in tag matches, are legendary. Certainly there are negative WCW stories about Kevin Nash. But where is the "HHH stopped his push" story, when did Vince and WWE come to HHH, ask him to lose a title or big match and he refused like Hogan, no showed an event like Nash, claimed injury to get out of a match like HBK, I cant think of one time Trips absolutely canned WWE Plans like those guys did, or for that matter just quit the company and walk out like Austin.
Maybe its time we give Trips his due, the Wrestler of The Decade in the 2000s, a legendary performer

 

[RJJ]

IMO, there are only 3 true icons in wrestling, Hogan, Rock, and Austin.


Now, as far HHH goes, the moment I read the title, immediately a hulk hogan quote came to my mind "Icon doesn't grow on trees, brother!". That pretty much sums up HHH whole career. He've made a career full of ass kissing, back stabbing, holding down, driving out, and burrying down talents to get to the top...Oh and I almost forgot, he took the short cut by marrying the boss's daughter. The fans ain't stupid, and they can see through shit. There is no deny how great HHH was through out his career, but the backstage politics will always be a big black whole in his legacy. I also don't think he have enough charisma to get him to that level.

And yes, he was forced on us during his transition to the main event picture in mid 1999. They tried everything to make him legit, from going over rock week in and week out(LMAO funny thing is, HHH chasing rock and interfering randomly in his matches even though he was already the champ), to beating austin several times before he went out for the surgery, Untill finally he was made by foley at royal rumble 2000.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

His career took off while Rock and Austin were on top. Sorry, but that's the truth, it's rather simple.

-He was a heel
-He wasn't as good on the stick then as he is now
-Smarks hate him (doezn't putz pplz ova and all that bullshit)

Several things factor in. He wasn't on the same level as Austin and Rock, and most people believe that period of time was HHH's prime. I don't, but most do. When he finally took the top spot, he turned heel, people stopped watching, etc. It's like asking why Flair wasn't as popular as Hogan in the late 80's, early 90's. He was the heel, and Hogan was a beast. End of story.