I think a lot of it is also when they sign somebody who was a star on the indy scene the first thing they do is change their name to something stupid then ship `em off to FCW for months. Then they take away the moves that made them popular in order to work "WWE style". Instead of striking while the iron is hot they leave them languish in developmental. So then what you end up with is just another generic Johnny Boots and Tights nobody who Creative will "have nothing for them."
Why aren't debuts impactful anymore?
- Thread starter Mr. HD
- Start date
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
I don't mean to copy someone else's post. If I do, it's not intentional.
The internet is a major contributor to why so many debuts don't seem to have the impact of debuts in the past. After all, spoilers of who is scheduled to debut or who is on their way to a company or whatever usually wind up plastered all over the internet.
Also, as I'm sure many others have said, it's just harder to have an impactful debut. For instance, someone from TNA coming to WWE wouldn't make that big of a splash. For instance, if AJ Styles left TNA to come to WWE, I don't think it's something that would generate the kind of massive reaction that Brock Lesnar got upon his return earlier this year. Styles doesn't have Lesnar's star power, not even close, and TNA isn't WCW. TNA doesn't have the audience and general lineage that WCW had built up. WCW was on WWE's level when it comes to areas like that, but TNA isn't and neither is ROH. John Cena leaving WWE for TNA would be a huge deal and the impact would be huge. Same for someone probably like Randy Orton and a few others because of their jacked star power.
The internet is a major contributor to why so many debuts don't seem to have the impact of debuts in the past. After all, spoilers of who is scheduled to debut or who is on their way to a company or whatever usually wind up plastered all over the internet.
Also, as I'm sure many others have said, it's just harder to have an impactful debut. For instance, someone from TNA coming to WWE wouldn't make that big of a splash. For instance, if AJ Styles left TNA to come to WWE, I don't think it's something that would generate the kind of massive reaction that Brock Lesnar got upon his return earlier this year. Styles doesn't have Lesnar's star power, not even close, and TNA isn't WCW. TNA doesn't have the audience and general lineage that WCW had built up. WCW was on WWE's level when it comes to areas like that, but TNA isn't and neither is ROH. John Cena leaving WWE for TNA would be a huge deal and the impact would be huge. Same for someone probably like Randy Orton and a few others because of their jacked star power.
whoopin' ass
Championship Contender
simple - where are these people going to fit in the big scheme of things? when guys were going between wcw and wwf, debuts were a big deal because usually there were openings in the roster for a new talent. now, unless you get an Edge who retires, there is no place for people. plus, look at how the bring people in. Brotus Clay was advertised for months and we get a dancing dinosaur? boy, isn't that worth waiting for.
ChicagoBornPunk51
Dark Match Jobber
I don't know if this is in the right spot. I have been away for a while after all
Back in the day, debuts were more impactful and the superstars involved were major players within weeks of their debut and left their mark on that night.
Brock Lesnar debuted after WrestleMania 18 and destroyed three superstars. He was WWE Champion by Summerslam.
Rey Mysterio debuted in July of 2002 and had a match with Kurt Angle by Summerslam.
Chris Jericho debuted in August 1999 and interrupted The Rock, who was at the peak of his career and left his mark.
Carlito debuted in October of 2004 and not only interrupted John Cena, who was very popular at that time, but beat him for the United States Championship the same night.
Big Show debuted in 1999 at the St. Valentine's Day Massacre and threw Stone Cold through a Steel Cage.
Kane debuted at Bad Blood 1997, ripped the door off of the Hell in a Cell and tombstoned The Undertaker.
Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, and Perry Saturn debuted in January 2000 as The Radicalz and Triple H's henchman and were Big Time Players later on with each having matches at WrestleMania.
What I'm trying to say is why aren't debuts impactful and mean something anymore?
Look at the recent debuts of new superstars. People like Damien Sandow, Tensai, Ryback, Brodus Clay.
All Sandow, Tensai, Ryback, and Brodus have done is compete in squash match after squash match. Their debuts have been rather anticlimactic despite the buildup for most. We have yet to see any of these guys in any sort of feuds.
Sandow debuted and walked out of his match. Brodus debuted and squashed I don't even know who. Tensai debuted and squashed Alex Riley, and Ryback debuted and destroyed some jobber. Where are they now? Pretty much doing the same thing.
Why didn't Sandow debut and interrupt Sheamus or something? I'm not saying start a feud with the man, but you interrupt the World Heavyweight Champion, let him know who you are and what you're planning to do on SmackDown and you have heat because you just stepped on the toes of a BIG fan favorite.
If WWE really is serious about moving forward with these guys, more needs to be done. I hope they give Dean Ambrose that impactful debut. Something that makes the people "wow" and makes him leave that mark. Interrupt John Cena, or CM Punk or something. Maybe go Carlito's way and have Dean Ambrose get in the face of Christian and beat him for the Intercontinental Championship that same night.
Something that makes you look at that guy and say, "He's going to be something big!"
Feel free to Comment and Discuss.
I see what you are saying Mr. HD, but for the most part all of the examples of talent you mentioned from years past were already well known stars (with the exception of Carlito who was Puerto Rico's biggest star att, Kane who was going to be a sure thing in the program he was in as long as he could work and Brock Lesnar who was clearly going to be a star), in a time when wrestling popularity was at a all time peak, and who were already over from the previous company. Almost all of the talent you mentioned being already over, made booking them as immediate impact players a no-brainer. Where as the new talent you are using as a comparison today, is relatively unknown by the average WWE wrestling fan. I feel the WWE is doing the right thing with concentrating on making sure they get the new fresh talent over first. Rather then throwing them into a important angle, without knowing how the fans will take to them, or how well the new talent themselves can do in a impact role, right out of the gate, with no prior seasoning.
No sense burning what could be a hot angle, on a talent, just to see if they will "sink or swim" when they don't even know if they're able to doggie-paddle (please forgive the terrible analogy
). Besides I feel Brodus Clay and Ryback are getting themselves over very well. And can see it being only a matter of time before they make a real impact on the Mid-Card possibly even Main Event picture. After-all, creative did give Clay a meaningful spot in the main event at No Way Out, and I felt he did very well.supernatural1981
Pre-Show Stalwart
The way i see it is in boxing you start off at the bottom and if you win enough matches you start to move up the card, maybe fight for a smaller title (british,commenwealththen european) before getting your world title shot if you are good enough. You never see someone just get a world title shot in their first match.
The same type of thing is now happening in wwe they are bringing guys in and seeing how they are doing lower down the card before giving them a run with a lower title and if they are good enough they will get a world title shot/run in the end.
I would love to see another debut like tazz had where everyone knew who he was but he just walked down to the ring and destroyed a unbeaten kurt angle. That was a great debut.
Also a shout out for the razor ramon vignettes that got him over before he even started.
The same type of thing is now happening in wwe they are bringing guys in and seeing how they are doing lower down the card before giving them a run with a lower title and if they are good enough they will get a world title shot/run in the end.
I would love to see another debut like tazz had where everyone knew who he was but he just walked down to the ring and destroyed a unbeaten kurt angle. That was a great debut.
Also a shout out for the razor ramon vignettes that got him over before he even started.
theBec2101
Championship Contender
Thats an easy one because of the Internet. Things are already out there before it is seen. Look at it all. Alberts return as Tensi, and Jerichos return. So it is kind of out fault. If you want to be shocked and owed dont use the internet or read spoilers.
80centricher
Dark Match Jobber
Debuts aren't impactful anymore because they are all squash matches. ALL OF THEM. This year, Tensai debuted and we got squashes. Ryback, Brodus Clay, Sandow, its the same thing with everyone, and its lazy for WWE to do this. John Cena, the biggest name in the company for many years, debut in a losing effort. The WWE should change it up a big and make the new wrestlers lose sometime. I hope Ambrose doesnt get squash wins because that would be a waste.
I must say im a sucker for the shoot / run in / attack debut...always feel that it leaves you wanting to know more about who why and when its happening again.
Not like Aces and Eights as that is just too far fetched and as good as it could be doubt very much the promise will result in the end product.
Bring back the no hype smash mouth debut style where you are left wide eyed and not knowing whats happening next..
Not like Aces and Eights as that is just too far fetched and as good as it could be doubt very much the promise will result in the end product.
Bring back the no hype smash mouth debut style where you are left wide eyed and not knowing whats happening next..
I certainly see what the original poster said.
There was one instance that I remember, a few months ago or so. Big Show was working for Laurenitis and he had a match with Bordus Clay. It looked legitimately good in the sense that I felt I saw Brodus could get a few hits in and show he is a threat. However, they squashed it for Big Show to get some air time and ended the mini feud right there. Pretty lame, but what can you expect, right?
There was one instance that I remember, a few months ago or so. Big Show was working for Laurenitis and he had a match with Bordus Clay. It looked legitimately good in the sense that I felt I saw Brodus could get a few hits in and show he is a threat. However, they squashed it for Big Show to get some air time and ended the mini feud right there. Pretty lame, but what can you expect, right?
I think the WWE is trying to glorify it's veterans more. Some superstars have been in the WWE for around ten years and still haven't even been given a serious world title run. So when guys make their debut just months or even weeks before they win their first world title, stuff like that tastes like a fart in the face when you're one of the veterans that hasn't been taken seriously.
On the other hand, I do think the WWE should at least give these guys good feuds. We hardly know anything about them. I think feuds would at least get us acquainted with these athletes so we could follow them better.
P.S. One of the matches you forgot to mention was MNM beating Batista and Mysterio for the tag titles in their debut match.
On the other hand, I do think the WWE should at least give these guys good feuds. We hardly know anything about them. I think feuds would at least get us acquainted with these athletes so we could follow them better.
P.S. One of the matches you forgot to mention was MNM beating Batista and Mysterio for the tag titles in their debut match.
Owen 3:16 says I just stole your Slammy!!
Pre-Show Stalwart
I think debuts are not that impactful anymore cause the spoilers on websites. Today, it is easier know what is going on before the show comes on. I like how Bischoff use to do the surprises in WCW. He told nobody, what was going on before the show, because he did not want people to open their mouth's to the dirt writers before the show.
Sandow, Ryback, Tensai & Clay are not new previously unseen wrestlers. They where not actually making their debuts. Tensai was returning, and did so with a new gimmick. Ryback, Sandow & Brodus have all worked in WWE on tv before. They where simply being repackaged. They where simply debuting new gimmicks.
sanefan_har
The Crimson Kestrel
Tensai beat Cena, agreed. But that got him nowhere. He comes out to a dead reaction almost everytime.
In all honesty, I believe that the video vignettes leading to debuts is the major problem.
Look at brodus clay from Unstoppable force videos to Funkasaurus and the funkadactyls (seriously??) .And whatever happened to Bray Wyatt? And Damien Sandow with his savior of the masses promos. After all these videos, these people come out and wrestle for barely 2 minutes. They win and one guy dances with his oompa loompas, the other does a cartwheel.
As for tensai he randomly beats up Sack o' tomatoes. I mean that's the only time a few 100 people in an 18000 crowd boo him. Its even worse when they already revealed he used to be in the WWE. He should've been brought back as Albert.
Ryback is one of the few debutant wrestlers who the crowd is getting into (Yes all you guys( and me) love Sandow, but we're the minority, and don't forget the cartwheel). He'll get a storyline soon, hopefully with rhodes or barrett to provide some filler for the PPVs.
In short the major problems with Debuts today are excessive video vignettes which don't build up to anything, and pointless matches with no buildup. And then you wonder why there aren't any good heels to feud with. Its simply because you don't have a good debut and get a dead reaction.