Who's The Better Wrestler?

[Gordon]

u say Cena didnt get the kick....
do u not remember HBK Chin Musiced him a few weeks before WM23 AND beat him in a match-up in London... when Cena had the FU, HBK landed on his feet then delivered some chin music.. that was one great rivalry

and yes ladies and gentlemen... THE CHAMP IS STILL HERE!

 

[Batistabomb10]

John Cena is a decent wrestler. I disagree with the way the WWE is using; or rather, abusing his talent(s)! However, personal opinions aside, Shawn Michaels is the Heart Break Kid! The icon, headliner, the main-event, the future Hall of Famer (not necessarily in that order, of course). John is decent, but he is just that...DECENT! Shawn is awesome, and there is no comparison. I voted for HBK! And if you ain't down with that, I got TWO WORDS FOR YA!!!!
S*CK IT!!!!!!

 

[RatedR_HBK11]

John Cena is a decent wrestler. I disagree with the way the WWE is using; or rather, abusing his talent(s)! However, personal opinions aside, Shawn Michaels is the Heart Break Kid! The icon, headliner, the main-event, the future Hall of Famer (not necessarily in that order, of course). John is decent, but he is just that...DECENT! Shawn is awesome, and there is no comparison. I voted for HBK! And if you ain't down with that, I got TWO WORDS FOR YA!!!!
S*CK IT!!!!!!

Couldn't have said it any better. Cena is not awful by any means, but he's nowhere near better than Michaels.

 

[Slyfox696]

I think that Shawn Michaels is the better wrestler by even Slyfox's criteria. The man is an incredible in-ring performer who can also "tell a story". Better so than John Cena anyway. I cannot think of a single area in which the Heart Break Kid is not superior.

Well, these days, physical condition. John Cena may be the most physically fit person on the entire roster in terms of strength, endurance and cardiovascular conditioning.

And yes, I've already said that I've given the edge to HBK in terms of this...right now. I just want people to understand that this isn't quite so far fetched as some want to make it out to be.

i hope cena isnt considered to be one of the best of all time in the future, though he probably will i dont think he should, at least up until this point in his career he hasnt done anything worthy of being one of the best of all time IMO

his hasnt given me one classic match, he hasnt given me one classic moment, wich is amazing considering hes been champ for nearly a year now (or has it been a year?)

What classic moments has Triple H, the singles wrestler, given you? What classic moments did Chris Benoit give you? What classic moments has anyone other than Austin, Hogan, Rock, and people who have fallen off really high places given you?

And, his best matches have just been this year. He can't have a classic match 6 months afterwards. I remember Wrestlemania 12, and the Hart vs. HBK match. It wasn't considered a classic. Only after years went by did it become a classic. You don't know what a classic match is going to be until it happens. But, here are some candidates:

Cena vs. RVD at ONS 2
Cena vs. HHH at WM
Cena vs. Edge TLC
Cena vs. Umaga at RR 07
Cena vs. HBK at WM or Raw in Milan

All of those matches have the potential to be classic matches. And, the man is only 30. He's got a long ways to go, and at the rate he's improving, the sky is the limit.

 

[ACTAFOOL]

hmmm its possible that his match with HBk on Raw or his match with RVD at ONS become classics, i 4got about those 2, they were really good, but the ONS match was really good mostly because of the hatred in the crowd

anyways, triple H has given ME many classic matches, but my top 3 would have to be HHH vs undertaker WM 17, HHH vs austin best 2 out of 3 falls (one of my fav matches =D), and pretty much any HHH vs HBK match

chris benoit gave me some classic matches in WCW, or classic moments when he was with the four horsman, his feud with booker T was classic IMO, and that triple threat at WM 20 (was it at 20?) was simply incredible!

but cena still does have a long way to go... he still has a chance to give every1 classic matches/feuds/moments, his HBK feud was awsome, could have been huge, but then HBK got hurt, so he has potential, all im saying is that up until now he hasnt given me much =/

 

[Sparky]

Shawn michaels would have one of the greatest wrestlers of all time he might not be as big as austin, the rock and so on but there has only been about ten crap matches michaels has been in and they wasnt his fault it was the other wrestlers. Michaels has been in so many first of matches, where cena has only been the first person to be defeated by a money in the bank winner and face it thats not that great.
Michaels has lost more matches than cena has competed in.
and face it michaels would of won that belt at wm 23 if he had of wanted it
H.B.K all the way

 

[Uncle Sam]

John Cena/Rob Van Dam at One Night Stand 2 was not that good a match. We mainly just saw RVD doing his same old WWE-style tricks, it was John Cena that did something new, although it was out of neccesity. The only good thing was the crowd, but I was cringing when Cena kept having his shirt thrown back at him.

Anyway, HBK has got worse physical condition than the good majority of the WWE roster. He's aged better than many superstars born of his era, but worse than most of the few that are still active. It's a crying shame he couldn't have been WWE Champion one more time before he left, if for nothing more than sentimentality's sake. Who else has consistently stolen the show at WrestleMania? For that fact alone, he deserves to be awarded the title of "better wrestler".

 

[Slyfox696]

Michaels has been in so many first of matches, where cena has only been the first person to be defeated by a money in the bank winner and face it thats not that great.

What does that have to do with anything? Do you think Shawn Michaels was the one who thought up the different match concepts?

Michaels has lost more matches than cena has competed in.

Not exactly a strong statement for saying HBK is better.

and face it michaels would of won that belt at wm 23 if he had of wanted it

I don't know. It's tough to say. Because if HBK wanted a belt, he probably would have had one before WM 23. But, if HBK had suddenly changed his mind in January, and his health had been 100%, he probably would have gotten the belt. But, is that because of his drawing power, or because of his backstage connections?

John Cena/Rob Van Dam at One Night Stand 2 was not that good a match. We mainly just saw RVD doing his same old WWE-style tricks, it was John Cena that did something new, although it was out of neccesity. The only good thing was the crowd, but I was cringing when Cena kept having his shirt thrown back at him.

You do know that Cena was doing that on purpose right? How the shirt would get thrown back at him, and he'd take the shirt and throw it again? You do know he meant for that to happen right?

And, John Cena did something "new" because he was not working the babyface comeback part of the match. Since RVD is pretty piss poor at anything other than random high spots, Cena had to be the one to carry the offensive portion of the match, and be the one that made that match go. That's why what he did was "new". If RVD had any competency at all, Cena probably would have worked the same babyface style comeback. That's assuming, of course, it was someplace outside of Hammerstein where Cena wouldn't be the overwhelming heel.

It's a crying shame he couldn't have been WWE Champion one more time before he left, if for nothing more than sentimentality's sake. Who else has consistently stolen the show at WrestleMania? For that fact alone, he deserves to be awarded the title of "better wrestler".

HBK will be back, and he's already gotten his "sentimentality" run. That happened back in 2002. He doesn't need another. And, "stealing the show" is a subjective term, and certainly can't be used to decide the better wrestler. And...when has HBK really stole the show at Wrestlemania? The ladder match with Razor is really the only one.

WM 5: Tag team match against the Twin Towers...not that great, trumped by Hogan/Savage easily
WM 6: Rockers vs. Orient Express....not that great, trumped by Hogan/Warrior by a mile
WM 7: Rockers vs. Barbarian/Haku...not that great, trumped by Savage/Warrior (good god, has the Ultimate Warrior stolen the show more than anyone?)
WM 8: vs. Tito Santana....disappointing match, Bret vs. Piper was clearly better
WM 9: vs. Tatanka...best match on the card.....but is that really saying anything?
WM 10: vs. Razor...not the best match on the card, but clearly stole the show (Bret vs. Owen was the better match)
WM 11: vs. Diesel...probably the best match on the card...but, again, is that really saying anything?
WM 12: vs. Bret....probably the best match on the card, but I wouldn't say it really stole the show. This was the match that sold the show.
WM 13: Due to mysterious circumstances, HBK was unable to perform
WM 14: vs. Steve Austin....this match was all about Steve Austin, not HBK
WM 19: vs. Chris Jericho....contender for best match on the card...wouldn't exactly say it stole the show though
WM 20: vs. Benoit/HHH....this match was all about Chris Benoit and his monumental win. Everyone knew it was coming. HBK in no way stole this show.
WM 21: vs. Angle...despite this match being completely overrated, it is still probably a top contender for best match. But, MITB, and more specifically Shelton Benjamin, stole this show.
WM 22: vs. McMahon...I'll give credit to Shawn for making this match watchable. But that's all it was. Cena vs. HHH was easily the most entertaining match on the card (and not just saying that because its Cena).
WM 23: vs. Cena...Despite HBK's match being the best match on the card, Batista vs. Undertaker stole this show (which is dumb considering the only reason people think its good is because Batista is that awful).


So, really, only once or twice could you say HBK "Stole the show". Hell, Ultimate Warrior has the same claim. Like I said, you can't base who is better based on that.

 

[ACTAFOOL]

actually at WM 22 IMO HBK stole the show, either him or edge and foley, the cena vs HHH i though was ok, but wasnt anything great

not because i dont like cena, i just didnt think it was that good, + the ending sucked... both WM 22/23 endings really made the match just above average, make HHH and HBK tap out??? its stupid, john cena isnt even a submission wrestler, he has one submission move, but hes just a brawler, he should have won with at least a FU

oh and WM 23 i disagree, i thought the cena vs HBK was the best match (though IMO it was one of the worse WM ive seen), i dont know why but i think cena and HBK put on a really good match =/... though like i said b4, i think the ending ruined the match..

 

[Slyfox696]

actually at WM 22 IMO HBK stole the show, either him or edge and foley, the cena vs HHH i though was ok, but wasnt anything great

His match with McMahon was completely awful and beyond ridiculous. Trish/Mickie, Edge/Foley, and Cena/HHH were easily more entertaining. And, go back and watch the HHH/Cena match again. There are very few matches with a crowd reaction as that one. HBK didn't steal the show.

oh and WM 23 i disagree, i thought the cena vs HBK was the best match (though IMO it was one of the worse WM ive seen), i dont know why but i think cena and HBK put on a really good match =/... though like i said b4, i think the ending ruined the match..

I agree that HBK vs. Cena was the best match, but Taker vs. Tista stole the show, but for the wrong reasons. The reason it stole the show is because it didn't suck like people thought it would, and when people realized they were seeing a decent match, they gushed about it...still today. Believe me, I wish I could say that Cena vs. HBK stole the show (which, is overrated to begin with, but what we're discussing), because that would further my claim that Cena is a damn fine wrestler in HBK's league, but the fact is that it's not even the most popular of the two Cena/HBK matches. And, Taker vs. Batista is talked about more.

 

[ACTAFOOL]

oh i thought u ment the taker/batista match stole the show in terms of just being a more entertaining match... i dont know how the reaction of everybody there in the USA is like cuz i live in brazil so i dont know wich matches most ppl consider to be ''the best of WM''

oh and i dont remember the reaction of the crowd in the HHH/cena match, and i really dont want to download another 4GB just so i see the reaction of the crowd lol, but im just saying in terms of entertainment i didnt think the match was great...

and i thought the HBK and vince match was fun, ok true it was only cool cuz of HBKs elbow drop from that ladder (that was so perfect ) but that moment was awsome, but ya the ppl who really stole the show were edge/foley, nothing beats a spear through a flaming table hehe

anyway cena has proven that he has potential to be great with the feuds he had with edge and HBK, but i still wouldnt consider him a better wrestler than HBK, and its not just the fact that i like HBK and dislike cena that im saying this, IMHO i still think cena has a long way to go to be as good or a better wrestler than HBK...

 

[Sparky]

fair enough sly fox he didnt think of all the concepts but he did think of the hell in a cell he wanted somthing different then a cage match so he suggested putting a lid on top. and he was also responsible for having the first no holds barred match. it took him a while to convince vince becouse vince didnt want to be heading the same way as E.C.W and the first ladder match of the wwe was thought up between Michaels and bret the hitman heart.
so to answer your question no he didnt think up all of the match concepts but he did think of a fair few.
Just remember he was the first grand slam champion as well as being the one responsible for bringing kevin nash to the WWF scene.
and he is also responsible for
Lance cade
brian kendrick
and some others that i didnt know about until today tyson tomko paul london and a few others that i havent heard of before.
And
being the first person to win back to back royal rumbles and the first to enter first and win.

 

[Slyfox696]

and he was also responsible for having the first no holds barred match it took him a while to convince vince becouse vince didnt want to be heading the same way as E.C.W.

No Holds Barred was the name of a movie with Hulk Hogan in it, long before ECW was ever founded.

and the first ladder match of the wwe was thought up between Michaels and bret the hitman heart.

Ladder matches had been done before Michaels and Bret. Hell, Bret had been in ladder matches back in Stampede Wrestling.

as well as being the one responsible for bringing kevin nash to the WWF scene.

I'm confused. Are you considering that a good or bad thing?

 

[Sparky]

the ladder match might of been done before but did you notice i said the first match in the WWF and i said it was both michaels and brets choosing.
and i am not talking about a movie i am talking about the match up. no hold barred no rules anything goes? or put more simple a Hardcore match. yeah maybe kevin nash was a bad thing put what about londen and kendrick they have had some superb matches and are great midcard wrestlers

 

[Slyfox696]

the ladder match might of been done before but did you notice i said the first match in the WWF and i said it was both michaels and brets choosing.

I don't think I can give credit to Michaels for coming up with a match that had been done before by his opponent in another fed.

Would you say that Chris Benoit, then, deserves credit for creating hardcore, falls count anywhere matches in WCW?

and i am not talking about a movie i am talking about the match up. no hold barred no rules anything goes?

Umm...no holds barred is a match description, not necessarily a match type. It literally means that no holds are barred and that any move is allowed like a choke for instance. No Holds Barred was around before Shawn and ECW.

or put more simple a Hardcore match.

Those had been done everywhere for a long time.

yeah maybe kevin nash was a bad thing put what about londen and kendrick they have had some superb matches and are great midcard wrestlers

I guess that all depends on if HBK really trained them, or if they were just graduates of his wrestling school. I'm going to guess the latter, personally.

 

[BRandonkin]

I don't think I can give credit to Michaels for coming up with a match that had been done before by his opponent in another fed.

But Michaels made it popular. Michael Jackson and Madonna did not come up with the Music video concept, but they popularized it and made it popular. It is call innovation. Taking something and recreating it, making it new. ECW revolutionized Hardcore Wrestling. WWF revolutionized professional wrestling. It was going on before them, but they made it the powerhouse that it is today. HBK did that for the ladder match. History remembers HBK ladder match as the premiere match.

 

[Slyfox696]

I don't think I can give credit to Michaels for coming up with a match that had been done before by his opponent in another fed.

But Michaels made it popular. Michael Jackson and Madonna did not come up with the Music video concept, but they popularized it and made it popular. It is call innovation. Taking something and recreating it, making it new. ECW revolutionized Hardcore Wrestling. WWF revolutionized professional wrestling. It was going on before them, but they made it the powerhouse that it is today. HBK did that for the ladder match. History remembers HBK ladder match as the premiere match.

Bret Hart was in the first ladder match in the WWF. Razor Ramon was in the match that made the ladder match popular. Does that make both of them great as well? Just because they created and popularized the match?

Of course not. If it wasn't Shawn Michaels it would have been someone else that would have made it famous. If it hadn't been Razor, it would have been someone else. Tests of greatness aren't determined like this.

 

[BRandonkin]

Bret Hart was in the first ladder match in the WWF. Razor Ramon was in the match that made the ladder match popular. Does that make both of them great as well? Just because they created and popularized the match?

Of course not. If it wasn't Shawn Michaels it would have been someone else that would have made it famous. If it hadn't been Razor, it would have been someone else. Tests of greatness aren't determined like this.

That is a cop out. That with anything. If not Vince, some else would turn thing around. if not Einstein, some one else with figure it out. If not Bell, some else would created the phone. We know that. But the fact is who did it. Who created it and who made it popularized it. Both deserve credit. A well created product without a buzz or something to promote it still fails. Michaels/Hall promoted it and brought something special to that match. That is why they are the innovator. That match is to ladder matches, what Thriller was to music videos. It is the Shakespeare of English Literature. It is not the original, but it is the spark that made people realize how special that match can be.

 

[Sparky]

But we are not talking about razor ramon or bret hart slyfox the question was who is the better wrestler John cena or shawn michaels i gave my reasons on why i chose shawn michaels. it was becouse of all the classic matches he has been in and being the creater of the HIAC match and being in the first of some very popular matches that was in the WWE/F he is also one of three wrestlers that has been wrestling for the wwe the longest that still wrestles regurly Michaels the undertaker and ric flair i will say it only once more Michaels is a better wrestler then cena and not because i dislike cena.
But because i really like H.B.K for all of what he has accomplished throughout his career.

 

[Slyfox696]

That is a cop out. That with anything. If not Vince, some else would turn thing around. if not Einstein, some one else with figure it out. If not Bell, some else would created the phone. We know that. But the fact is who did it. Who created it and who made it popularized it. Both deserve credit. A well created product without a buzz or something to promote it still fails. Michaels/Hall promoted it and brought something special to that match. That is why they are the innovator. That match is to ladder matches, what Thriller was to music videos. It is the Shakespeare of English Literature. It is not the original, but it is the spark that made people realize how special that match can be.

Yes, but the fact that anyone could do it shows that HBK isn't deserving of getting "points" if you will for doing so. And, thus, can't be used to say that HBK is better than Cena, just because he started wrestling sooner and had a good ladder match. It doesn't make him the better wrestler.

But we are not talking about razor ramon or bret hart slyfox the question was who is the better wrestler John cena or shawn michaels

Agreed. And what gimmick matches they've been the frontrunners of has nothing to do with how good of wrestlers they are. Now, you can say that the HIAC at Mind Games was a great match and shows HBK's ability to put on a great match, but the fact that he was in there first has nothing to do with him being a better wrestler.

 

[Kourtney_Game]

Slyfox. hoestly u are being an idiot, if u want to talk about beter "Wrestler" then u know hands down micheals is it, now maybe entertainer may go to cena, but "wrestler", youve got to be kidding me if you stand by cena, its only because u like him, micheals not only has been wrestling way longer, micheals can pull off any of cenas moves and perfect them, lets see cena attempt at what micheals game, also unlike cena micheals is extremely versatile, micheals wrestles differently with different wrestlers, xpecially weight wise , yes the endings are usually the same punch, body slam, punch, body slam, elbow drop, nip up, sweet chin music.....but i dont mind watching it unless hes fighting against someone i know damn well he cant do all of that shit on like kane, but as i was shawn differs during the match with different opponents, ive cena cena do it a couple of times but cena is way more prdictable, you see, this is how it goes, if someone is too interfere cena may lose however if its a one on one match, cena wins the smae way..shawn has a larger anuever arsenal, and actually uses them, so if cena does have more moves he doesnt use them, theres lots of reasons shawn is the greater wrestler and i know alot of people think oh well just give cena time and he'll be a great weetler or shawn micheals has been in the business much longer which is unfair, thats too bad i personally thing these two shouldnt even be compared at all.

 

[Slyfox696]

Slyfox. hoestly u are being an idiot,

I'm sorry? Come again?

if u want to talk about beter "Wrestler" then u know hands down micheals is it,

I've already agreed. My point was that this isn't a runaway like people were saying.

now maybe entertainer may go to cena, but "wrestler",

They are the same thing. In the professional wrestling business, they are the same thing.

youve got to be kidding me if you stand by cena, its only because u like him,

No, it's because Cena over the last two years has easily been the best worker in the WWE. It's because Cena has impressed the hell out of me since Wrestlemania 21. I used to not like Cena too. But, one cannot deny how good he's been since being given the ball.

micheals not only has been wrestling way longer,

The only reason I voted Michaels. At the same state of their respective careers, I vote Cena.

micheals can pull off any of cenas moves and perfect them, lets see cena attempt at what micheals game,

You're kidding right? A former nationally recognized collegiate football player? You don't think he can do a top rope elbow drop or something of the sort? Please.

also unlike cena micheals is extremely versatile, micheals wrestles differently with different wrestlers, xpecially weight wise

Big Show, Orlando Jordan, JBL, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Triple H, RVD, Edge, Booker T, Umaga, HBK, Khali, Bobby Lashley....

you don't call that versatile, especially weight wise?

yes the endings are usually the same punch, body slam, punch, body slam, elbow drop, nip up, sweet chin music.....but i dont mind watching it unless hes fighting against someone i know damn well he cant do all of that shit on like kane, but as i was shawn differs during the match with different opponents, ive cena cena do it a couple of times but cena is way more prdictable, you see, this is how it goes, if someone is too interfere cena may lose however if its a one on one match, cena wins the smae way.

What? Could you please clarify that? I had trouble following.

shawn has a larger anuever arsenal, and actually uses them, so if cena does have more moves he doesnt use them,

If he can put on better matches than HBK now without having to use them, doesn't that show how much better Cena is?

 

[stutts2010]

thats not a contest hell im 15 and i have hated cena always and since i first started wrestling i was an HBK fan. i watch all his old stuff and new stuff. its bs wen the company makes super cena win every martch. i mean i will give john cena a few good matches that i give 5 stars. RVD against cena at ONS. The wrestlemania rematch against shawn michaels. wen he lost the title to edge at NYR. man great matches am i rite? but i mean cmon u cant like cena cena with his FU, STFU, sholder block, spining powerbomb thing, and we cant forget the "dangerous" 5 knuckle shuffle. face it, if it werent for little children spending money on john cena stufff, he wuldnt be as a big a hit as he is now. hbk has proved hiself more than john cena or any body else in the WWE right now. well thats wut i had 2 say

 

[HBKshowstoppa]

this is horrible, why would you compare a hack like michaels to the great man cena?!? cena has held the title for nearly a year now, michaels "cant touch him, its horrible they have given the tag team title to such an unworthy wrestler who isnt fit to hold cena's boots"
cena by a mile

A hack like Michaels? Michaels stole the show every single goddamn night of the 90's, fought big guys like Diesel and Syco Sid and made the match believeable that the little guy could win. Michalels could put on a five-star match in his sleep, he carried Hogan through a program, you just can't get better than Michaels. Shawn Michaels the the Grand Slam champion, 4 time WWE title champion, numerous tag titles, IC titles, and the highest paid guy of the 90's (til' Hart in the later part of the 90's) is 'unworthy' to hold a tag title with Cena. It should be the other-way around Cena is unworthy to hold any damn title, much less a title with Shawn.

 

[Kourtney_Game]

Slyfox, when i was talking about differ opponents i was saying how micheals wrestles differently with different opponents to make it believable unlike cena who almost never differs, despite their weight and what not he always seems to pull of the big moves, and its pathetic, i know wrestling takes co-operation from both wrestlers but cmon..also what i was saying about better WRESTLER, i was saying it from mine and the rfest of the world's terms, of course to you and vince mcmahon a perfect wrestler would be john cena, stone cold steve austin and other ENTERTAINERS, but anyways i didnt know u voted for micheals, all i saw was u constantly sticking uop for ur best friend john cena, but what im seeing here from you is alot of OPINION because thats what this is all about so u have urs i have mine, and i uess i can live with that.