Who's place in WWE is bigger? Triple H's or Bret Hart's??

[pepentorresHHH]

I loved all the responses on the debate on who you liked more between bret hart and Triple H, so we'll continue the trend with a question that can still be considered subjective, the question is: who gave more to the WWE?

Bret Hart, was part of the Hart foundation, won countless intercontinental, tag team championships, king of the rings, won numerous wwe championships, main evented wrestlemania 9,10,12 competed in legendary matches against ric flair, mr perfect, the british bulldog, owen hart, shawn michaels, yokozuna, the undertaker and stone cold just to name a few. He was second to none in the ring, even though his mic skills were not that good IMO

Triple H was a part of DX, Evolution, The Clique , has won the intercontinental, european, tag team title numerous times, he had the company on his back after stone cold and the rock left, its a 5 time world heavyweight champion, 8 time wwe champion, overall a 13 time world champion. Main evented wrestlemania 16,18,20,21,22,25 and had legendary encounters against the rock, stone cold, mick foley, the undertaker, john cena, kurt angle, chris jericho, the unmentionable, kevin nash, goldberg, shawn michaels, ric flair, among many others. He is part of wwe management now, and is in charge of talent relations, the revamped NXT and just brought bruno sammartino to the WWE hall of fame. And more importantly he is STILL here, although backstage, in a permanent basis.

They both have their flaws, for example bret was never considered as the best talker or the most charismatic guy, but he carried the company on his back between the hogan era and the attitude era along with shawn michaels, but he was involved in the montreal screwjob, and after his medical issues he has been called bitter by some.
Triple H on the other side was never the best wrestler, but he carried the company on his back after the rock and stone cold left until he passed the torch to john cena . He has been accused of burying talent unneccesarily whose careers never recovered and refused to put some people over ( i think he has put plenty of people over but thats my opinion) and now people complain that his ego makes time take decisions while he is now one of the people who runs the company

Again, this discussion is who gave more to the wwe, no wcw no indies, nothing outside ofthe WWE.

So, who has a bigger place in the WWE?

 

[Changstaz92]

A poll would be nice for these kind of questions, just saying. But I'd have to say Triple H. Obviously since he's still relevant and has been in more main event feuds than Bret Hart has ever had.

 

[AlwaysHasBeen]

Hey, good thread OP!

I'd go with Bret Hart. I might be a little biased because I officially became a super WWF fanatic in the early 90s, when Bret carried the business on his shoulders but I still think I have a valid argument.

The reason I think Bret Hart's place in WWF/E lore is more prolific than HHH's is because Bret Hart was able to make the "other guys" on the WWF roster who may have been overlooked seem relevant during the 90s. He made them credible via his unique sell jobs and in-ring storytelling/psychology. Some names that come to mind are Papa Shango, Isaac Yankem, Hakushi, Doink the Clown, Diesel, and the list goes on. While Bret was obviously the more refined athlete and possessed an unmatched wrestling mind in all of his feuds with these "other guys," he made all of them either look 10x better than they actually were or made them step up their games in the ring, knowing who they were in the ring against.

HHH, on the other hand, while a great entertainer, existed in an era where talent and diversity were quite copious. Plenty of great minds and athletes to work with. In addition, while there were great matches during the Attitude Era, the product had transitioned into an edgy soap opera from it's previous form which focused strongly on the actual wrestling.

So, in closing, I'd side with the Excellence of Execution because he could make chicken salad out of chicken sh...

 

[FlairFan2003]

Triple H. First, he has been an integral part of the company longer. Brett was important in the tag team division (albeit when the tag division still meant something) but was a non entity in the singles ranks for most of the 80s. He did benefit from the departure of icons such as Hogan & Piper (steroids), Savage (took time off and assumed non wrestling role post divorce), Flair (injuries & reduced schedule-less travel in WCW), Ultimate Warrior (fired). Still, you cant blamd a guy for taking advantage of opportunities and Brett worked hard when he was promoted to the top of the card and he connected with the kids and young children in the audience almost as well as Hogan even if his promos and character lacked "star" charisma.

HHH also benefited first from the free agency defections of Hall & Nash and later by the Rock's movie career and injuries to Austin (career ending) & HBK (severely career limiting). Not quite as good as Hart in the ring but a better character presentation & more charismatic, he also worked extremely hard with the company on his shoulders. The difference is HHH was the star longer. Hart's heyday 93-96 was marked by long title reigns by Yokozuna & Kevin Nash and the very real feeling that creative was pushing HBK as the "next big thing". Much of this was due to poor numbers or at least declining numbers during "The New Generation" era he fronted. HHH by comparison was drawing well main eventing against mega stars like Rock & Austin and even after they left the company did strong numbers during his 02-06 heyday. During that time he spent more time as champ as Hart did 93-96. Unlike Hart's early days when he was a silent worker as part of The Hart Foundation, HHH was a very vocal and out front member of DX before his Evolution-World Title days.

In the end Hart's defection-firing and WCW Tenure may hurt him a bit in terms of measuring his importance to WWE. Certainly with respect to his overall career his WCW time didnt hurt him and WWE has honored the legacies of other performers who had significant runs outside of their doors or who left as free agents for major runs in WCW (Hogan, Henning, Nash, Flair, etc). Still HHH never left, he has been as much a company guy as anyone outside of Undertaker. No free agent defections, no quitting like Austin when he didnt get his way, no leaving the business like Batista, Rock, Lesnar, Goldberg, etc. This dedication and the success enjoyed due to that longevity is what puts him over the top.

Now some of the things that shortchanged Hart's career were beyond his control. Lousy booking during the early portion of his heyday (when McMahon was dealing with the federal steroids investigation) and WCW (bouncing between fan fave & heel,never getting a 1 on 1 match vs Hogan or being a majoq force vs NwO) proved to be a detriment to his success. Also, the head injury he suffered vs Goldberg and subsuquent issues with a motorcycle accident and stroke ensured he would never wrestle again. Ric Flair was able to return to the ring for one last run after he felt he had been mistreated and his career legacy tarnished by the final years of WCW. HBK was able to return for one last run to clear up issues regarding his less than stellar legacy. Hart, who potentially could have been a great asset alongside those two in post 2001 WWE, never got that chance.

Still, booking and injuries aside, it is Triple H who has had a greater impact on WWE and wrestling in general. The fact that he now works behind the scenes and has been an integral part of putting together Rock-Cena and the Bruno Sammartino HOF induction only enhances his legacy.

 

[Rabbid Wolverine]

I would go with Bret Hart on this one, the WWF numbers were down when Bret and later HBK were given their pushes (due to hogan leaving). On top of that WCW started to run over WWF and if those 2 hadnt been around McMahon may have been closed for business. So Bret was around in a more strenuios time in WWF and helped them survive. He also introduced the world to the biggest star WWF ever produced, Stone Cold Steve Austin. Bret wanted to wrestle Austin as soon as he arrived. Bret helped launch what saved WWF in the first place.

HHH also carried the load when Rock/Austin had left but there was no competition left at that time (and pretty much to date), so really his job was to make new stars. He has jobbed to younger guys like Cena, Orton, Batista which is great but again there was no competiton.

For what I have mentioned I would say Bret Hart contributed more to WWF/E. But he does seem a little bitter these days :S

 

[CaptainZaltan]

While I'll always prefer Bret Hart over HHH, undoubtedly HHH gets the nod in this one. If for no other reason, longevity. Bret was active in the WWE from from 84 to 97 (13 years), whereas HHH was active in the WWF from 95 to present (18 years and counting). Both were top guys during their careers, but HHH did it for longer and in a bigger period in pro-wrestling's history (although he was still third or fourth banana behind Rock, Austin, and maybe Undertaker, but that's another story).

Speaking of which, we also need to look at the eras in which they were dominant. Bret was on top in a particularly silly era of professional wrestling, where the best opponents available to him were wrestling pirates and dentists. HHH was dominant during the most successful period in wrestling history. Bret's time in the WWF was coming to an end just as the Attitude era was about to kick off, and while I think he contributed greatly to the creation of that era through (for example) the Montreal screwjob and helping Austin get over as a face, he simply wasn't around to be influential during the biggest boom in wrestling history, or to take advantage of the abundance of superstars available to work with. HHH was. While I can't fault Bret for it, HHH's time on top likely meant more to the story of professional wrestling, if for no other reason than far more people witnessed it.

Finally, Bret's career came to an end in 2000, and while he's still technically working, his medical situation severely limits what contributions he can make (forget promo abilities, the mere fact that the man can talk after the stroke he had is impressive). HHH, on the other hand, has only recently been involved in major storylines, and is becoming more and more influential behind the scenes. It wouldn't be surprising if it's HHH, more than the Mcmahons, that directs the course of the WWE's future. When all is said and done, I doubt there will be even a handful of wrestlers who can claim that they had as large an influence on the course of wrestling history as HHH.

All that being said, for me personally, Bret Hart still is far more influential in my being a wrestling fan.

 

[relentless1]

the answer is Bret Hart and yes i am a bit biased because i am canadian but if you look at brets career, he did more when the titles meant more, he was the first triple crown champion, had the first ladder match in the company, had the first iron man match in the company, won the WWF title 5 times when the belt wasnt just a hot potato, a feat only matched at the time by Hulk Hogan and he did it all without sleeping with the bosses daughter. I know many will call foul on that but lets face it, HHH wouldnt be where he is today with out being Vince McMahons son in law, in fact bret did it all with vince trying to better deal him the whole time he was on top of the WWF.

 

[Headman]

Other than being a fantastic in-ring worker I don't know what Bret really contributed to the WWF/WWE other than his exit being the turning point in the monday night wars, but I don't think he'd consider that as an accomplishment of his. Some say he put Steve Austin over, and I guess he gave him some sort of rub but he was more of a launching pad really. I have a hard time believing that Austin wouldn't have caught fire if not for Bret Hart. I grew up a Bret Hart fan. Many of my favorite matches involved Hart, but if I'm being honest with myself he was the defacto champion of WWE's lowest point. Hell, they were dying to replace him his entire reign first with Luger, then Diesel, then HBK and finally Steve Austin. Bret was a personal friend of Mcmahon's so it wasn't bad blood. Vince simply saw Bret as someone who was good enough to hold down the fort for a while, but he was never going to be Hulk Hogan's replacement. And Vince was right.

As for Triple H, his impact continues to be felt. Some will say "He married into the family business". And sure there's some truth to that, but you look at the things he's done both in the ring and from a business standpoint he's proven he's got a good mind for the business. He positioned himself in a way to become a major star. He was always an imposing and believable champion and when he lost it actually mattered. Both Bret Hart and Triple H have had their share of amazing matches, so even if they cancel eachother out in the ring the question becomes who did more for the business.

Bret took his ball, went home, came back, rebuilt some bridges, went back home and burned them again.

Triple H has made it his mission to put the business before ego and repair some of the damage Vince has done over his tenure. I believe Triple H is the kind of guy who can put aside his personal opinion if he thinks it's right for the business. He's a "Wrestling" guy and isn't as obsessed with Hollywood as Vince is. I feel more comfortable with Triple H at the helm than any of the other Mcmahons. And as Vince continues to fade into the background we'll get a clearer picture of what Triple H is all about.

So yeah, I'm going with Hunter on this one.

 

[OneLoneSapper]

Triple H. I don't even have to think that long. Brett was important for awhile but he left at a crucial time, a time where he could have stepped up for the company. Instead He left for WCW. His place in WWE history is assured, no doubt, but he was never a complete "company man" and HHH always has been. And make no mistake, Brett could be contributing now, but he doesn't want to.
HHH helps with talent relations, he helps develop new talent in Florida. Hart could easily do that with no injury to himself and he chooses not to. He could be a road agent, but he chooses not to. HHH helps shape the business, Brett helps Brett.
Now true, Brett has had some very traumatic and tragic medical issues. He will never be the guy in the ring that he was in the past so we can cut him a break on that. But there is so much more to the business that working in the ring. True, HHH is married to Steph so he has alot to live up to with the company. But there are alot of things Brett could do.

 

[SSJPhenom]

In this situation I'd have to go with Trips.

From 2000 to 2005 HHH was the legit best heel in the business. Also, from 2002 to 2005 HHH single handedly made the World Heavyweight Championship more important than the WWE Championship. Be honest, the WHC hasn't seemed as important as it did when HHH was holding it. Throw all that in with how important DX and Evolution was to the WWE and IMO, HHH is the only choice for this question.

Don't get me wrong. Bret Hart's legacy in the WWE is more than secure. He was, is, and always will be one of the greatest in-ring technicians of all time. In that category, he has HHH beaten hands down, but in that category only. HHH is a better talker than Hart and has way more charisma than Hart. In-ring ability will only get you so far in professional wrestling. I really wish that Hart had never opened his mouth about Trips because in a lot of people's minds; all he's done is tarnish his own reputation.

Some people might not agree with me, but this is how I see it.

 

[PinkStranger]

In my opinion Bret Hart. In reality it will be Triple H, because he has the power to manipulate perception. I admit to bias since Bret was my favorite growing up. I felt like Bret's rise to the top was organic while Triple H felt more shoved down my throat. The way people talk about Cena is the way I felt about HHH. No wrestler becomes a star without being put over by the company, but I feel like Bret made himself a legend through pure talent (overcame being undersized, Hogan not wanting to put him over, being labeled tag team wrestler, etc). WWE made Triple H a legend through sheer push.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

However Trips tries to manipulate it or change opinion once he has the "keys to the kingdom" the reality is that without Bret being there for that 14 years, the feuds and matches he had and even Montreal there would not be a WWE for Triple H to be in charge of, he wouldn't have gone there or gotten to the point he did. That is even before you start to think about the in-ring side of things.

I think I get a little bit of Bret's annoyance now and I don't think it's to do with Trips as a worker... Remember that 20 year contract where Bret was gonna work behind the scenes, the one Vince could no longer afford?

It's pretty clear to me that the role Trips has now is the one Bret himself feels he was promised in 96/97 once his career in the ring was done as part of that deal and had he stayed it would have been about time to collect the top loaded money and that role. Vince may have intended it at the time, or it may have been he ended up like JR and he would have been relegated to nut shots and kissing Vince's ass by now. But I can see in Bret's recent barbs a little bit of bitterness and "this guy is gonna take over?...really?" where Bret is quickly positioning himself as "the new Bruno" when he always thought he'd be the new Vince or more likely the new Gorilla, the #2 guy, the exact role Trips now has. Maybe as part of his return to the fold he thought he'd still get it, maybe Hunter said "no problem Bret, there's always a role for you with me" and it insulted him?

Remember Bret's frame of reference for that role was Gino Marella, a highly respected man, loved by all and most importantly, brilliant in the role he had, not just the commentary but being Vince's #2 behind the scenes, what they now call Talent Relations and producer was all one guy just behin the curtain, who got the position named after him. Trips is controversial, known to have enemies and ego and is not someone who is averse to playing dirty, sometimes with peoples lives and careers, so you can see why Bret would not think that a good guy for the role, or more to the point why he'd have been better.

I can see his point, from Wrestling with Shadows you can see the excitement when he had the 20 years and that he would be an Elder Statesman and the almost tragic look when he faxed to WCW and of course his whole life went to shit after that moment. At the moment there'd be a lot of "What If's?" going around Bret's head and the only guy he can fixate it on is Hunter, as his career and life seemed to bloom from that exact same moment.

So to this point, Bret is more important to the history, but Trips is more important for the future and once it gets to another 15 years removed we all may feel differently (or curse the day Paul LeVesque took over, like Bret seems to do already)

 

[tom9422]

Bret was a good worker, but lets face it, he left no real lasting influence on the company. He was also a part of the lowest part of wrestlings history and that only changed when he left. Even Montreal, an event that seriously changed the landscape of pro-wrestling was done without his input, he was merely a cog in the machine.

Triple H, aside from his inferior technical skills had the better all round package, and was a driving part of wrestlings most successful period ever. He also was the last big star left to carry the company out of the Attitude era. While he did bury quite a few, he also made big names out of more people than Bret Hart ever did. He also has a big influence backstage and seems to be leading the company in a good direction with the extra power he's getting.

Yeah, Bret Hart was a great wrestler and yeah, you may have loved him growing up, whatever. Point is though, he has never impacted the business as much as Triple H has, and Hunter's just getting started too.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

This may seem a little biased because I wasn't old enough to watch it when Hart was on top although I have gone back and watched a few Bret Hart matches and done research on the time period, but for me the choice is really easy. It's Triple H all the way. Not only has Triple H been with the company longer, he's never left. His dedication to the WWF/E is second only to Mark Calloway's. Bret was champion during a low point for the WWF. He along with Diesal and HBK made up a low point even though HBK would help usher in the most famous era in wrestling history although some of the credit should go to Bret Hart for putting over Austin.

Triple H played second fiddle for the first couple of years until Shawn got hurt. Then he took DX to heights it had never seen under Shawn's direction. Once done with DX, Triple H embarked on a singles career that can be considered legendary. He's not the greatest in-ring worker but he tells a great story inside the ring and he puts on a hell of a match. He has put over some of the biggest stars of the current era in Batista, Cena, Orton, Punk. He has a great mind for the business and once he fully takes over, I believe he will change the WWE for the better and take it in a direction Vince never dreamed of. And Hart? He's just bitter. A man who only had a small impact compared to what Triple H has done and what he will do.

 

[King Patrick Star]

I like Bret the Hitman Hart. I really do. The thing is, Bret was all about tradition, whereas Triple H was all about what’s best for business, literally. To me, Bret was an 80s Professional Wrestler stuck in the 90s and Triple H was future promoter stuck in the 90s as a Wrestler. Bret was all about being on top of the World, and Triple H was all about taking over the World. I would have to give this specific nod to Triple H here, because of one simple reason. Bret left mad and Triple H stayed and continued to the top. I’m not talking about moving on to becoming the King of Kings, but I’m talking about moving up to becoming the COO. Triple H is still giving to the WWE and Bret is simply not.

 

[Waylon Mercy]

If we are talking about status, then naturally Triple H wins that one. He not only runs the company, but also he's married to it. In terms of legacy, sacrifice and lasting contribution, then I am definitely going with the Hitman. Nobody can deny the pressure that was put on Bret's shoulders when he was given the ball after Hogan left and the steroid scandal almost decimated the WWF. What Bret did as the flag bearer of the company, was to make wrestling a believable and legitimate sport (I know Vince doesn't like using that term anymore). Bret was a classic underdog in the sense that he wasn't a muscle-bound behemoth. He was an average-size champion with a huge drive to win and stand up for what was right. He cleared the way for the so-called smaller guys to reach that upper tier. Funny too, that he has been criticized in the past (mainly by Ric Flair), for not being a draw. Bret was hugely over, but not in the classic sense like Hogan was. Bret had legions of fans abroad, and naturally in Canada. To say he wasn't a draw in the U.S. is selling him short as well. Remarkably, when you look at his past matches at various stateside events, he is reminiscent of John Cena. The younger fans adored Bret, as he marched down the ramp to give his trademark shades to a kid on the way to the ring. Parents of these kids admired Bret for being a positive role model as well. The older fans saw Bret as the real deal. Anyhow, there are several more reasons why I think Bret's place in the WWE is bigger, but that might require another post later.

 

[rokuma]

This is a loaded question. Triple H is obviously bigger because he stands to inherit the WWE one day and makes booking decisions. Now, if you're talking about during their career, Bret Hart is the answer. He paved the way for "small guys" to become legitimate stars and was one of the greatest international draws in WWF history. Also, he kept the WWF afloat with Shawn Michaels in 95-97 and arguably, his departure was the greatest thing to ever happen to the WWF (allowing the Attitude Era/Stone Cold Steve Austin-Vince McMahon rivalry to commence).

In the ring, Triple H is largely forgettable. Is he a legend? Sure. His in-ring work alone is nothing to remember. He was a lot like Arn Anderson - absolutely reliable, perfection in the ring, but nothing that spectacular. Even when he held the World Heavyweight Title for most of a year it wasn't spectacular. His matches are always good, but his great matches were always with someone just a little better: HBK, Jericho, Undertaker. Those guys put on memorable performances with lesser known wrestlers. I'm not sure Triple H could do that.

 

[#MrScissorsKick]

Man this is a good question. I think it's a tough call here. Both Triple H and Bret Hart have had their fair share of success. I don't think either faced each other in a match, but if they did, i don't remember. Anyways, Bret was successful in the late 80's - early 90's pre-Attitude Era. Bret had a good tenure joining the Hart Foundation. His WWE reign was good, accomplishing many things such as the WWE championship 5 times. On the flip side, you have Triple H. Triple H has 12 or 13 World Championships. He married into the McMahon family business. I didn't watch WCW when i was younger because i was 9 when it shut down, but to me, Triple H has had a bigger impact than Bret Hart did. However, I don't think it's a clear landslide but Trip's has had a longer career in the WWE and in wrestling in general. Trip's has put alot of guy's over and has definately put his time in to become one of the best in the WWE.

 

[Aberle4Life]

I am biased as you can see from my picture, but I can see that Triple H is the one whose place in WWE is bigger as he stands to inherit the company from Vince McMahon. However, Bret Hart is my favorite wrestler of all-time and as others have said, there might not have been a WWE for Triple H to take over had it not been for Bret.

I started watching wrestling right around the time Bret joined the WWF in 1985, and have watched ever since. I've seen the careers of both guys in WWF/WWE, and without a doubt Bret was the bigger deal during their wrestling days. Bret was the reason fans bought a ticket to the show, whereas Triple H was on the bill but people were buying tickets to see Austin, Rock, Undertaker--more the whole show because the Attitude Era was full of great characters and the New Generation Era wasn't.

I respect Triple H's love for the business and hope he does WWE right when it's his time to take over, but I can't help but think that during his career Triple H was a dirty player backstage. He got himself over, but at the expense of others. Bret had a philosophy of building up others around him to make everybody look good; Trips made himself look good but not really anybody else. You can argue Evolution, but by that time WWE KNEW they needed more stars as the others were going away. Triple H's philosophy had started to change by then; that doesn't erase the businessman he was before all that.

I preferred the way Bret got to the top over how Triple H did it. Both guys worked hard, certainly--but Triple H's is a case ultimately of favortism whereas Bret's is just a case of talent. Yes, The Game was trending upward while he was still with Chyna, but getting with Stephanie is truly what took him to penthouse of the organization.

All that said, Triple H has to be considered the bigger deal now in WWE, as much as I prefer not to say it. He's on the threshold of running the whole thing, while Bret is making the occasional cameo appearance but is unable to really contribute due to his health. History will likely show that Triple H was the bigger deal in WWE than Bret Hart, but I think for most who saw it all--we know that Bret Hart was much more special than Triple H was. Take politics and marriages aside, and the Hitman will always be head-and-shoulders above The Game.

I, too, wish Bret hadn't really gone on these rants about Triple H not being in the Top 1,000 or whatever. Bret, we all know Hunter can't hold a candle to you in the wrestling ring--it doesn't have to be said.

 

[f_roEDGE]

Most of you are not addressing the question at hand. It doesn't matter who had a better career, because at the end of the day, wrestling is scripted, so accomplishments are pretty redundant. The question asks who's place in WWE is bigger?

The answer is Bret Hart all the way, and the reason is simple.

Bret Hart's in ring skill speaks for itself, so I won't get into that. But the biggest reason Bret Hart's place is bigger is because he has officially solidified the careers of both Shawn Michaels and Stone Cold Steve Austin due to their amazing matches at WrestleMania's XII and 13. HBK and Austin went on to become two of the greatest wrestlers of all time.

Triple H on the other hand solidified the career of who? Batista? Haha their match at WM21 was good but hardly memorable. Orton? Their first feud from Unforgiven '04 to Royal Rumble '05 almost buried Orton.

Bret Hart is more associated with the great moments. The images of HBK's 'boyhood dream' celebration and Austin's 'crimson mask' are two memorable moments. Bret Hart spitting in Vince's face was memorable. 15 years from now, there is not one moment that will be memorable from the career of Triple H. He was to busy burying others with his title reigns as opposed to putting future stars over like the Hitman.

 

[deslok]

I think place wise, from an unworked fashion, it would be Bret. Without him, there would have been no smaller champions in the future. He kept on wrestling even when he may have been getting shafted at times by Vince and politics.
Both are very important characters in the history of wrestling

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

Most of you are not addressing the question at hand. It doesn't matter who had a better career, because at the end of the day, wrestling is scripted, so accomplishments are pretty redundant. The question asks who's place in WWE is bigger?

The answer is Bret Hart all the way, and the reason is simple.

Bret Hart's in ring skill speaks for itself, so I won't get into that. But the biggest reason Bret Hart's place is bigger is because he has officially solidified the careers of both Shawn Michaels and Stone Cold Steve Austin due to their amazing matches at WrestleMania's XII and 13. HBK and Austin went on to become two of the greatest wrestlers of all time.

Triple H on the other hand solidified the career of who? Batista? Haha their match at WM21 was good but hardly memorable. Orton? Their first feud from Unforgiven '04 to Royal Rumble '05 almost buried Orton.

Bret Hart is more associated with the great moments. The images of HBK's 'boyhood dream' celebration and Austin's 'crimson mask' are two memorable moments. Bret Hart spitting in Vince's face was memorable. 15 years from now, there is not one moment that will be memorable from the career of Triple H. He was to busy burying others with his title reigns as opposed to putting future stars over like the Hitman.

You forgot to mention Cena. I see where you're coming from but Triple H has put over more than Hart. While Hart did put over Austin, arguably the biggest star in WWE history,and HBK, arguably one of the all time greatest performers, Triple H has put over John Cena, the biggest star of the last decade, Orton, the next biggest star right behind Cena in the last decade. You're one of those that can't stand Triple H and refuses to admit that he is better than Hart and has had the biggest impact in the WWE. Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of Bret Hart,but Triple H has had more of an impact on WWE than Bret Hart.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

Apples and oranges. You can't compare it this way.

Triple H's main event stint in WWE was twice as long as Bret's. So obviously he will have had more time to win more titles, headline more 'Manias, and feud with more stars.

Even his post-main event stint is technically still going on.

Not to mention it's unfair to mention any of the behind the scene management responsibilities he has, when Bret was never responsible for things like talent relations or programming.

I'd say you only look at what they'd done in the ring, and pick comparable timeframes. Also, Triple H never spent 5-6 years in a tag team in the WWF either. So I'm only comparing their singles careers, and only in their primes.

Bret Hart

Mid carder: 1991-1992
Main eventer: 1992-1997

Accomplishments:

• Two time Intercontinental Champion totaling 290 days
• Five time WWF Champion totaling 654 days
• Two time King of the Ring winner (1991, 1993)
• Co-winner of the 1994 Royal Rumble with Lex Luger
• "Unofficial winner” of the 1997 Royal Rumble, but the official win went to Austin
• Founding member of the original and re-formed Hart Foundation

Memorable Matches:

• Mr. Perfect – SummerSlam 1991
• Roddy Piper – WrestleMania 8
• Shawn Michaels – First Ladder match in WWF history – Wrestling Challenge 1992
• Davey Boy Smith – SummerSlam 1992
• Ric Flair – SuperStars taping 1992
• Shawn Michaels – Survivor Series 1992
• Razor Ramon – Royal Rumble 1993
• Owen Hart – WrestleMania 10
• Owen Hart – Cage match – SummerSlam 1994
• Diesel – Survivor Series 1995
• Shawn Michaels – First ever Iron Man Match - WrestleMania 12
• Stone Cold Steve Austin – Survivor Series 1996
• Stone Cold Steve Austin – I Quit Match – WrestleMania 13
• Shawn Michaels – Survivor Series 1997

Triple H

Mid carder 1997-1998
Main eventer 1999 - 2004

Accomplishments:

• Two time European Champion totaling 160 days
• Five time Intercontinental Champion totaling 196 days
• Five time WWF Champion totaling 259 days
• Four time World HeavyWeight Champion totaling 532 days
• King of The Ring winner (1997)
• Royal Rumble winner (2002)
• Founding member of D-Generation X
• Member of the Corporation
• Lead member in the McMahon/Helmsley faction
• Founding member of Evolution

Memorable Matches:

• Owen Hart – WrestleMania 14
• The Rock – SummerSlam 1998
• Kane – WrestleMania 15
• Triple H, Steve Austin – SummerSlam 1999
• Six-Pack Challenge – Unforgiven 1999
• Stone Cold Steve Austin – No Mercy 1999
• Mick Foley – Street Fight - Royal Rumble 2000
• Mick Foley – Hell In a Cell - No Way Out 2000
• Mick Foley, Big Show, The Rock – WrestleMania 2000
• The Rock – Backlash 2000
• The Rock – Iron Man Match – Judgement Day 2000
• Chris Jericho – Last Man Standing – Fully Loaded 2000
• Kurt Angle – Unforgiven 2000
• Stone Cold Steve Austin – Three Stages of Hell – No Way Out 2001
• The Undertaker – WrestleMania 17
• Chris Jericho – WrestleMania 18
• Shawn Michaels – SummerSlam 2002
• First ever Elimination Chamber – Survivor Series 2002
• Shawn Michaels – Three Stages of Hell – Armageddon 2002
• Shawn Michaels – Last Man Standing – Royal Rumble 2004
• Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels – WrestleMania 20
• Chris Benoit – Iron Man Match – Raw 2004

So, I'm not counting all of Triple H's reigns. Just those that I consider in his "prime". Also, I'm shortening his prime so that it's closer to a comparable time period as Bret Hart's in the WWF.

Also, I'm sure I left off some memorable matches for both guys, just listed some that came to mind.

With all that said... I think Triple H has been more of a prominent figure in the WWF during his time on top. Whether this was because of a better era, or a better supporting cast to feud with. But to answer the question, and this is coming from a big Bret Hart mark, it's hard to argue how big Triple H was in the late 90s and early part of the 2000's. Especially from 2002-2004 when Austin, Rock were leaving and the roster was split in half. Much like Bret Hart did, he had to carry a brand with little help or a weakened supporting cast around him.

But it's not an easy call, for either guy, at least in my opinion.

I hope the above also sparks more discussion, debate, or at least provides amore reasonable comparison between the two.

 

[tom9422]

Most of you are not addressing the question at hand. It doesn't matter who had a better career, because at the end of the day, wrestling is scripted, so accomplishments are pretty redundant. The question asks who's place in WWE is bigger?

The answer is Bret Hart all the way, and the reason is simple.

Bret Hart's in ring skill speaks for itself, so I won't get into that. But the biggest reason Bret Hart's place is bigger is because he has officially solidified the careers of both Shawn Michaels and Stone Cold Steve Austin due to their amazing matches at WrestleMania's XII and 13. HBK and Austin went on to become two of the greatest wrestlers of all time.

Triple H on the other hand solidified the career of who? Batista? Haha their match at WM21 was good but hardly memorable. Orton? Their first feud from Unforgiven '04 to Royal Rumble '05 almost buried Orton.

Bret Hart is more associated with the great moments. The images of HBK's 'boyhood dream' celebration and Austin's 'crimson mask' are two memorable moments. Bret Hart spitting in Vince's face was memorable. 15 years from now, there is not one moment that will be memorable from the career of Triple H. He was to busy burying others with his title reigns as opposed to putting future stars over like the Hitman.

Bret's wrestling ability doesn't make him influential.

Yeah, he did put over Shawn Michaels that one time, but after him, the list of people who owe their careers to Bret Hart isn't too long. Even his brother couldn't get a WWF title off him. Austin looked good because of Austin, not because of Bret. Bret won that match anyway so its not like he put him over.

I can count Batista, Orton, Benoit and Cena off the top of my head who got seriously put over by Triple H. One of them died, and the other 3 carried the company for the next 5+ years.

Aside from obvious behind-the-scenes influence, it should be obvious who had more impact.

 

[f_roEDGE]

You forgot to mention Cena. I see where you're coming from but Triple H has put over more than Hart. While Hart did put over Austin, arguably the biggest star in WWE history,and HBK, arguably one of the all time greatest performers, Triple H has put over John Cena, the biggest star of the last decade, Orton, the next biggest star right behind Cena in the last decade. You're one of those that can't stand Triple H and refuses to admit that he is better than Hart and has had the biggest impact in the WWE. Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of Bret Hart,but Triple H has had more of an impact on WWE than Bret Hart.

While Triple H put over Cena to some extent, to me he crippled Orton's career. To be honest, Cena would still be Cena without Trips. I chalk up Cena's amazing career to his feud with Edge.

Listen, I love Triple H, so don't make assumptions. But, 15 years from now, name one highlight that will be memorable from Triple H's career that WWE can show for years to come. The only highlight is the scene with Undertaker and HBK at WM28. Other than that, everything else is forgettable. Bret Hart has many highlights to showcase. Even the WM10 celebration!

Bret Hart is better in the ring. He isn't scared to take risks, unlike Triple H. Overall, Triple H's resume isn't groundbreaking. Nothing is groundbreaking or awe inspiring. Triple H sleeping with Stephanie doesn't mean that his place in WWE is bigger. Will it be in the future? Maybe, but that's because he'll run the company. But from an in-ring standpoint, Bret Hart's impact on the business will never be forgotten. Triple H?? Hardly.

When wrestlers talk about the best in-ring performers, Bret is in EVERYONES top 10.

While not being in the Top 1000 is the most ridiculous statement ever, Triple H will rarely be a top 10.