Who Really Screwed Bret

[klunderbunker]

Bret Hart is without a doubt one of if not the all time greatest in ring performers in wrestling history. There’s no questioning that at all. However, he was never a draw in America. He just never had that feel of being the true star that he was being made up to be. I feel this can be blamed on one man: Hulk Hogan.

Let’s rewind a bit. It’s 1993, and Hulk Hogan is leaving the WWF for what he claimed to be retirement but as we know wound up being WCW a few years later. This leaves the WWF in a situation they never had been in before: a national company with no top guy. The leader of the company would become Bret Hart, but at the time, Hart was just the king (literally) of the midcard. Hogan was undeniably the top dog on the show, and while Hart was a former world champion, that reign is almost completely forgotten. Off the top of your head, who did Hart beat for the title? The answer is Flair, but I’m not sure that match was ever released in its entirety.

So anyway, Hogan is leaving. This means that Hart will become the top face in the company, which he’s been seasoned for a bit, but nothing that was too big. According to Bret in a TV interview that he did, the plan was for Hogan to lose the belt to Hart at Summerslam of 93, giving him the massive rub that would make him the next big thing in wrestling. However, Hogan bailed out on it, for unspecified reasons. I would say it was because he knew Hart would make him look awful, which I don’t think Bret would have done, but I think that’s what Hogan believed. Anyway, one way or another, there’s no Hart vs. Hogan match. Hogan loses to Yokozuna at KOTR and was gone. Hart feuded with Jerry Lawler forever and won a controversial Rumble, leading to him getting the title back at Mania 10.

Hart eventually became the top guy for the next two years, eventually dropping the belt to HBK at WM 12 as you all know. Shawn suffered from the same drawing issues that Bret had, and I think these issues are connected. Bret never got a rub from anyone, and because of this it seemed that he never was really a top of the line world champion. His in ring work was the best there is, was and ever will be, but he didn’t have the star power. Now imagine this: it’s Summerslam 1993 and Hart makes Hogan tap to the Sharpshooter. How big of a star is Bret Hart all of a sudden? When Warrior did it he was an instant star. Take the same push but add in Bret’s professionalism and workrate. He’d be bigger than anything anyone had seen. He would be the guy that made Hulk Hogan give up. The man and the hold are instant legends. When HBK beats him at WM 12 (assuming that’s still the case), he becomes the guy that beat Bret Hart, and he’s a bigger star.

It always seemed to me that the majority of Hart's first post Hogan run was spent trying to become a big star, instead of someone like Austin that came in as a huge star.

Flair got a rub from Race: makes him the biggest star in the world. Hogan got a rub from Andre: makes him the biggest star in the world. Austin got a rub from Hart; makes him the biggest star in the world. Where is Hart’s rub? It’s out in California making a TV series that no one watched called Thunder in Paradise.

I think that if Hart got the rub from Hogan, he would have been on even footing with Hogan, Austin and Flair like he should be, instead of being on the level of guys like HHH and HBK, which is hardly a bad place to be. What do you think? Am I right, or was Hart destined to be where he is on the all time ranks?

 

[Scott Free]

You're absolutely right, Hogan did screw Bret, and not only once. Flashback to WCW, Bret Hart debuts, the signs are all for a Bret Hart vs Hollywood Hogan showdown, what happens ? Hogan nixes the idea, and Bret gets lost in a cluster with him joining the NWO and teaming with Hogan instead. Hogan helped the business a lot, but he also did his share of selfish, stupid, and damaging actions, Russo firing Hogan on live TV was one of my favorite WCW moments, and I'm no big Russo fan.

 

[Scott Free]

Hulk Hogan never screwed Bret Hart besides Bischoff's ideas was him to join nWo
geeez! I miss WCW if only Jeff Jarrett purchased it then and there too bad he didn t and had to start from rock bottom ! Still TNA now needs RIC FLAIR,GOLDBERG and [/B]SaVAGE!

Bishoff's head was so far up Hogan's butt that any idea he had was a result of what Hogan had for diner the night before. Hogan dictated pretty much what WCW did, they owed him, he took a chance at turning heel AND he got Goldberg over. So if Hogan didn't want to put over Bret, he didn't have to, never mind the millions WCW spent on getting Hart, Hogan knew best.

Peace out.

 

[Paradox100]

Bret Hart is no doubt one of the best wrestlers of ALL TIME. He's a fantastic technical wrestler, good on the mic, and sucked you into the storyline. Bret seemed like he had a lot of bad luck. Hulk screwed him out of being THE MAN. Even though, he was no doubt THE MAN. He sure didn't get the rub he needed when Hogan left. Hulk Hogan has sure always had a problem with jobbing to people. Thinking it will hurt his stature. But refusing to do the job, (Which years later, Hart got his ass chewed for. Not following a "time honored tradition) hurt his stature even more.

Let's fast forward it now. The year is 1997, the City is Montreal, Quebec, Canada. It's Survivor Series, he's in a match for the World Wrestling Federation Championship, and it's his last match in WWF. Bret was to understand he would win this match. He would then forfeit the championship the following night on Raw. This is hart for me to comment on, because I have no hard feelings with Bret, Shawn, or Vince. But, as Vince has said many times, "I think there's regret on both parts." I find that 100% true. Vince shouldn't have done what he did at the event, because when a man's family is watching, doing that is pretty screwed up. Shawn shouldn't have took part in the situation. Because, he says that he "did it for the company" which might be true. But he also had personal enjoyment out of it, knowing the problems from their past. Now Bret, yea, he probably should have been lost to Shawn, and help the company progress. But if what Bret said is true, Shawn showed disrespect for a while. Apparently, Shawn said "Get the fuck out of the ring" when he won the title. Because it was his moment. Wouldn't you be pissed off too?

Bret sure has had bad luck when it came to wrestling. But I believe he drawed as good as he could. WCW was kicking the crap out of WWF's Ratings week-in and week-out. The biggest names in wrestling were leaving to go to WCW, leaving all the weight of the company on him. If it was in the 80's, Bret would have done much better. Example, you see some amazing wrestlers on the indy circuit, that are making peanuts. Then you see some bad wrestlers making millions. Why? Because they have more money making them what they are. that simple.

 

[blair4107]

Really, did

HBGay,HHH and Vince McMoron

screw Bret?

Bret was the top dog in the company, WWF Heavyweight Champ, "Hoganing" HBK at every turn, and he still decides he's done with WWF and he wants the big bucks over at WCW instead. Okay, well that's respectable, greedy but at least we can just let it go but what send off does Bret want? Bret wants to go out as the victorious heavyweight champion over HBK. Now how long is this even after Eric Bischoff had Alundra Blayze (or whatever) drop the WWF Women's title in the trash on Nitro? (Granted the WWF Women's Title never really meant much at that point but still). Can Vince allow Bret Hart to possibly do the same thing or even worse with the WWF Heavyweight Title?

"But Bret compromised and was going to drop the title to HBK at RAW!" On who's word? Bret's? Really? The guy that is leaving to go get more money? So what is to say that Bischoff couldn't have gotten more money from Ted Turner to get Bret to just bring that belt with him when he came onto Nitro. It was just too big of a risk.

As for Blaming Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Earl Hebner, etc is just humorous. To believe HBK, HHH, or even Hebner screwed Bret Hart by their actions is to believe that professional wrestling is a real sport; it isn't, it is entertainment and a JOB. When your boss tells you to do something that a coworker won't like do you still do it? Yes, why? Because it is your job. If these were normal actors on a top rated show and their biggest drawing actor decided to leave at the season finale and go directly to the show's main competition. What does the show do? It kills the character off. It's just business - here, Monday go into work and start dropping little hints and talking about quitting, see how management reacts.

Who really screwed Bret? Well the question naturally comes from the Montreal Screwjob but I pose the bigger suggestion of this whole situation screwing Bret's entire career.

How different would today be if in 1997 Bret Hart decided to stay with WWF; hell, if he became a lifer like Undertaker or Kane. Let's see, how far did his career really progress once moving on to WCW? Sure, he was WCW Champion but his career never saw the heights it could have with WWF, and he wouldn't again be choosing to play second fiddle to Hulk Hogan, an inferior wrestler.

Had Bret never left he would have never wrestled Goldberg at Starrcade 99 ending his career dramatically early.

Had Bret left he would have gotten to spend more time with his brother Owen before his accident or actually if Bret hadn't left it is possible that Owen may have had a different storyline or Bret may have talked him out of the prematch theatrical stunt. I'm not blaming Owen Hart's death on Bret Hart but I am saying it is quite possible that time would have held different outcomes had Bret not left.

So in conclusion it is my belief that Bret Hart screwed Bret Hart in choosing the greedy path he unfortunately suffered consequences of his actions, not that he could foresee the effects but unfortunately, shit happens.

 

[Scott Free]

Really, did screw Bret?

Bret was the top dog in the company, WWF Heavyweight Champ, "Hoganing" HBK at every turn, and he still decides he's done with WWF and he wants the big bucks over at WCW instead. Okay, well that's respectable, greedy but at least we can just let it go but what send off does Bret want? Bret wants to go out as the victorious heavyweight champion over HBK. Now how long is this even after Eric Bischoff had Alundra Blayze (or whatever) drop the WWF Women's title in the trash on Nitro? (Granted the WWF Women's Title never really meant much at that point but still). Can Vince allow Bret Hart to possibly do the same thing or even worse with the WWF Heavyweight Title?

I think what the original poster meant was who screwed Bret out of being on same legendary level as Hogan, that is, being put over as Ultimate Warrior was as Hogan's replacement. The Montreal screwjob has been done to death already.

Peace out.

 

[blair4107]

I think what the original poster meant was who screwed Bret out of being on same legendary level as Hogan, that is, being put over as Ultimate Warrior was as Hogan's replacement. The Montreal screwjob has been done to death already.

Peace out.

Which I addressed with Bret leaving for WCW to "play second fiddle to Hulk Hogan..."

Once again, Bret made the decisions he made, so it is still my conclusion that Bret screwed Bret.

And yes, I agree that the topic of the Montreal Screwjob has been overdone but what exactly comes to mind when you read anything "...screwed Bret?"

 

[Ol'Canucklehead]

"But Bret compromised and was going to drop the title to HBK at RAW!" On who's word? Bret's? Really? The guy that is leaving to go get more money? So what is to say that Bischoff couldn't have gotten more money from Ted Turner to get Bret to just bring that belt with him when he came onto Nitro. It was just too big of a risk.

In reality Bret didn't leave for money and in fact signed a huge deal that Vince later decided was too big and talked Bret Into signing with WCW even though he told Vince he would take less money to stay.

With that said the Montreal screw job story goes like this. As far as I have read is that HBK was the one who originaly refused to lose to bret and when it was time is when he "made up" a leg injury I believe, and lost his smile. Bret states and it has never been refuted that he would have lost the belt to anyone other the HBK and would rather it be either Taker or Stone Cold.

Now back on topic. Bret would have definitly benefited from the Hogan Rub (and not like the one with Brooke in her bikini). Think about it neither Hogan or Flair really wanted to put him over, and he had the company thrust upon his shoulders. A Hogan and Hart match would have drew well because you would have Bret saying he would run circles around Hogan and the Hulkster saying all he would have to do is get ahold of him and pound him. Hogan tapping to tha sharpshotter would have changed the course of history in the sense of Bret's drawing power.

 

[hhhfan14]

The thing is, and it drives me crazy, for years everyone has blamed shawn and Vince, but think about it, you own the top dog promotion, in the world, and you dont want your reputation thrown away by having a wrestler that works for u at the moment going to your rival, 2nd rate company, and disgracing your championship on national tv, so u ask him, bret will u please do the honors and have a match with shawn and give him the title, keep in mind that this is vince's company, so he should be able to have the champions be who they want, (and also i do know that bret had the contract that he could lose the belt to who he wanted, but being a stuck up dick, he says anyone buy shawn, i hate shawn boo hoo) so vince does the smart thing, and if bret doesnt wanna give the title away, then u just have to take it, and that is exactly what vince had shawn do, and in my opinion its the exact same thing i would have done, and was a smart business move, and one he had to make. SOO BOTTOM LINE

BRETT HART SCREWED BRET HART

 

[lamo78]

I think there is a lot of good points in this thread. The problem is, what angle are you looking at it from? Did Hogan keep Bret down in WWF and WCW? Yeah. Hogan screwed Bret.

Did Bret do what was best for the business and drop the belt in Montreal? No. Bret screwed Bret.

Did HBK, HHH, and Earl Hebner screw Bret during the match? Yes. HBK, HHH, and Earl screwed Bret.

But the problem I have is that Vince specifically gave Bret creative control in the last 30 days of his contract. If that was going to be a problem, Vince should have stripped the belt from him 31 days before his contract expiration. Vince also promised Bret a big contract and then recanted on it and told him to go to WCW. Vince told HBK and HHH and Earl to do those things.

All this in mind, I think Vince screwed Bret.

 

[Emmet]

Waht are people mentioning the damn Screwjob for? This isnt the bloody question. Its about 1993 and Bret/Hogan, not 1997 and all that bullshit.

I agree with KB's post. Hogan did leave Hart empty handed. Vince played the 2 of them off each other like he did later in 97 with HBK and Hart, Vince apparently told Bret he was getting the title, Vince told Hogan it was a non-title match. Once Bret and Hogan figured out that was Vince was playing them, they went to Vince and Vince made it out as if Bret was hearing things. Vince was doing to Hogan what he did to Bret in 1997, messing him around.

Hogan should have put Bret over without any question for the belt. It would have been one of the biggest matches in WWF history. Hulks charisma added with Bret's technical abilities would have made the match unreal, but it never happened. Hulk dropped the title to Yoko as we all know and the rest is history.

Thats why I hate Hogan, because of this incident.

p.s. can people stop going on about Montreal, entirely different issue.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

While I do respect Bret Hart, the guy tries to come across as a little too preachy. Since the screwjob has been brought up, it was a lousy thing to do on Vince and HBK's part. It was low class and unprofessional. Then again, so was Bret Hart refusing to drop the WWF Championship to Shawn Michaels in Montreal.

In spite of what some might believe, Bret Hart is not the only wrestler to have ever been put in a situation where he's going to job to a wrestler that he doesn't personally like or get along with in real life. Hart's refusal to do the job may well have set off alarm bells in Vince's head. I'd be surprised if he hadn't considered that Bret Hart might show up on WCW the next night, with the WWF Championship and toss it in a trash can like Madusa did to the WWF Women's Championship. Or at least do something similarly embarassing. We all know Vince can be a prick, like any successful businessman, and sometimes the boss is gonna tell you to do something you don't want to do. Hart was in a situation where he was in his last contractually obligated match, Vince had no leverage over him and Hart could have double crossed him. Not saying I totally agree with Vince, but he was the boss. Being a professional sometimes means you just have to grit your teeth and do what's expected. That's true of any job.

Now, as to the issue with Bret Hart and Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart would never, ever have gotten over quite the same way as Hogan did. I'll never question that Bret was a superior in-ring wrestler, but Hogan hit when the stars were in the proper alignment or whatever. Hulk Hogan was the ultimate 1980s hero: A big, strong guy that was a super patriot, always did the right thing, gave a kind of "wink wink" endorsement of Christian values, etc. Basically, everything that a Regan era America ate up. There was no edge to Hogan, he was just safe for the kiddies.

 

[Slam Master]

Hogan did to Bret that Bret did to Shawn. He constantly said how Hogan didn't do the right thing but doesn't see the similarity. Hogan's heading out and needs to put the torch in the next guy's hand and doesn't. Bret is leaving and has to put the torch in the next guy's hand and doesn't..Hogan and Vince pulled sneaky dishonest tricks, and it happened again in 1997 but this time Bret was in the match. Hogan's ego altered Bret's destiny like Bret's decision altered his, but for the worst. Its sad cus he'd still be wrestling today I'm sure on occasion if he stayed in the WWF.

Shawn really had a hurt knee and going into WM13 The office built it up to Shawn that Bret hated him and literally wanted to beat the shit out of him. Also, Vince NEVER asked HBK to job to Bret Hart, only to work with him. If Hart went over it was gonna be a DQ where Shawn would keep the title cus Vince didn't want Bret as champ. Vince told Bret even before the "Lost My Smile" speech that it would be Bret vs Shawn in a ladder match for HBK's hair. Shawn also felt he wasn't in working shape to defend himself either. Him and Stone Cold rehabbed together as well.

There were a lot of factors going into Montreal. The office had the both resenting each other. Shawn was a drug addict and there was a lot of personal animosity caused by Bret's contract, his unsupportiveness of Shawn, his bashing of Shawn on the dirt sheets and TV, and felt that if he was leaving he shouldn't go out on top. Bret on the other hand hated HBK's attitude, thought he faked the knee injury to get out of losing to him when Bret came up with that angle himself which was never approved by Vince. He also didn't like the live shoots Shawn did on TV, and that he was a backstabber on the booking committee and in the locker room. Bret also said that before the SS97 that he'd lose the belt to HBK at the event, but HBK rebuttled that he wouldn't return the favor. Thats a bad thing to say since, but 2 days later they all sat in Vince's office and Shawn acted totally different saying how greatful he was and that he always puts his foot in his mouth.