Who do you feel is currently The Top Dog on Raw?

[IrishCanadian25]

It isn't "outside the box thinking" as you attempt to creatively put it. It is "cop-out thinking" and avoiding the true question that is asked. By advocating this, you are attempting to change the actual topic of the thread.

"Expanding on" and "changing" are different things, you know.

Oh please. Let's not even lump the ECW title in as a world title compared to the other two. So, in essence we are truly looking at two world titles.

I agree with you, which is why I said "arguably."

Whichever title is on Raw, is generally regarded as the top title in the company. And that title is 90% of the time, the WWE Title, as that is actually the former WWF Title, so it is understandable.

Agreed.

Quit arguing against things you know damn well are true, for the "sake of discussion". It's embarrassing.

Embarrassing for you, perhaps. And I'll argue anything I please, thank ya.

- Holds the WWE Title

I'll get to that in a sec...

- Has a monster push unmatched by anyone in recent history on Raw ... probably since Yokozuna ... and Sheamus' push was far more rapid than Yoko's

Yoko's was better developed and made more sense

- Has ended Jamie Noble's career

In the words of Paul Vitti - "wow, there's a real fucking acheivement."

- Has scored a huge win over not just the top face of Raw, but the top face in the entire company-- John Cena

I assume "huge" is your word for "controversial?"

Yes, the win over Cena was big. But he did nothing of note prior to that, save for maybe a decent showing at Survivor Series, and did nothing to impress me the night after.

You have absolutely nothing. At this time, Sheamus IS the Top Dog on Raw.

On February 17th, 1997, Psycho Sid won his 2nd WWF Title from Bret Hart. You're saying that Sid was the "top dog" ahead of Bret, Undertaker, Austin, and Diesel? Just because he was the champion?

From January 19th, 1991 through March 24th, 1991, the WWF Champion was Sergeant Slaughter. So, the Sarge was the top dog in the WWF, ahead of Hogan, Warrior, Savage, and Perfect?

From July 17th, 2007 through September 16th, 2007, the World Heavyweight Champion was The Great Khali. You're saying that Khali was the top dog on Smackdown? Ahead of Batista, Undertaker, Edge, and Mysterio?

Bullshit. Like I said, I know you are simply trying to interject alternative viewpoints, but argue what you truly believe, as opposed to simply "trying to create discussion".

Pot. Kettle.

Besides, I am arguing what I believe. I believe that I do not like you, and thusly I am arguing.

What do you have with Orton? That he's helping to train Kofi Kingston? Give me a break.

At any given time, Orton is a massive challenger for the WWE Title, and is consistently the top recipient of heat on Raw now that Jericho is gone. He delivers in the ring, and the WWE recognizies that, so now Orton is helping make Kofi a superstar. Orton is the top dog.

 

[Tenta]

Well, there goes your support from me on Rookie of the Year. You'll have to PM me and we'll come up with a way you can make it up somehow.

Awww.... Damnit.... I'm sure we'll come up with something. Though, this does give me some publicity, as people who read this post now know I'm actually in the race for ROTY. Which can be viewed at the WZ EOY Awards

Nevertheless, I'm sure we can come up with something. And I don't think it's wrong to drum up conversation. But I call em like I see em. And in this case, I'm going to see if I can stick to my main case, Cena

But anyway, IC is the one who is intentionally trying to drum up conversation and he knows it. He doesn't even believe the bullshit coming out of his mouth about Orton, and is just arguing to argue. I have very little respect for that kind of tactic. If someone believes what they say, and it happens to be argumentative, that's fine. This is not one of those cases, though.

I know you believe what you're saying. So I think we can make for a pretty damn good debate for a little while.

The difference is that I believe what I say. And if I outright admit that I am basing my statement in a kayfabe sense in how it is presented to the viewer, I don't see how anyone can likely disagree.

Well, we're going to have to assume that the OP is meant to be taken at kayfabe standpoint. The only time this place turns kayfabe is during the WZ Tournament. Otherwise, we all pretty much take things from the smark perspective.

Sheamus is the WWE Champion.

Yes, but plenty of men have held the WWE Title, yet not been considered the top dog. Vince won the belt in 1999. Was he top dog then? How about Mankind or The Rock when they kept splitting title reigns in early '99? No, we all knew that, even with those men as champion, Steve Austin was still top dog. Even from a kayfabe standpoint

He ended Jamie Noble's career.

I suppose, and that deserves more credit than people give it. But at the end of the day, Jamie is still a mid carder at best, and a jobber at worst.

He has received a push like no other monster in recent history of the WWE

I'm not too sure about that. I think Brock's push was equivalent. And it kills me to say it, but so was Yokozuna's.

He scored a win at the last PPV over the top face in the entire company.


We aren't arguing this from a Smark sense. We are arguing this over what is presented in the actual product.

Now, even in kayfabe, here's the problem. Most fans, from a kayfabe standpoint, could think that this was a fluke victory. It was pretty flukey, even if that was the way it was supposed to end. Fans look at that, and wonder if Sheamus deserved to win. Even Jerry Lawler insinuated Cena kind of fell off the top rope, rather than being put through it. And in matter's of flukes, I turn to the guy that consistently is the top dog, rather than this one victory

Again, Tenta ... we are talking Top DOG, not DOGS. Pick one.

Fair enough. But I'm staying with this opinion of Cena. Even from a kayfabe standpoint

 

[Tenta]

At any given time, Orton is a massive challenger for the WWE Title, and is consistently the top recipient of heat on Raw now that Jericho is gone. He delivers in the ring, and the WWE recognizies that, so now Orton is helping make Kofi a superstar. Orton is the top dog.

Just to show I'm an equal oppurtunity man....

IC, you claim Orton is the top dog. Well, let's go over your qualifications now, shall we?

Randy Orton as a massive challenger for the Heavyweight Title- You do have a point there. Orton has been in seemingly every single Heavyweight Championship Match this year. As a matter of fact, I can't think of a single person that has been in as many heavyweight championship matches this year as Randy Orton.

Oh wait, yes I can; John Cena. Randy has been in 10, John 11. It's splitting hairs, but like it or not, Cena has been in more heavyweight title matches.

Four of which, mind you, were against Randy Orton. And in case you forgot, IC, Cena won the last two. Cena effectively won the feud, period. They had their defining match at Bragging Rights in the Iron Man Match, and Cena won. Cena is top dog in that aspect.

The claim that Orton is the top recipient of heat now that Jericho is gone has yet to be proven. We haven't seen a Raw without Jericho. However, I get the point. He's the top heel of Raw, and that makes him close to the top dog.

However, Cena is the top face. And typically, the main story of wrestling, and all feuds, is that the good prevails over the bad. And, similarly, Cena went ove Orton.

Cena offers as much in the ring, as well. And let's just break it down to what it matters... Cena draws, and Cena gets more reactions. People find Orton boring now. The same heat he used to have months ago has dissipated. And while he may be helping make Kofi a superstar, that's also in large part due to Kofi's ability, as well. Kofi was getting big pops before he was wrestling Orton. Orton is merely Kofi's catalyst to the main event.

Meanwhile, we can't comment on how well Cena has put over Sheamus. We have to compare to what Sheamus was before and after. And all we have to go by is one promo in regards to the after. Though, now Sheamus is locked into our conscious. How many threads in the last week have been started about Sheamus. And how many were there before Cena put him over? Consequently, Cena took the Miz, and has made him popular than he's ever been. We were so certain he'd job out on Raw, but now, with help from Cena, he's in the upper mid card. Cena takes people, and makes them more famous than they could have ever dreamed.

Again, this is foolish to think anyone but Cena is top dog

 

[waylonmercy]

John Cena without a doubt is the top dog in WWE. Honestly, if push came to shove between him and HHH I believe Cena would stay and HHH would go. Cena is Vince McMahon's dream wrestler. Cena is so passionate about wrestling its incredible. He probably is the hardest working man in wrestling. Hardest working in the sense that he is a promotion machine who does whatever necessary to promote the WWE. He is still in his prime (32 years old) and probably gets along incredible with Vince. I think deep down Vince knows that when Cena turns heel, that Cena will have a strong run.

 

[lvis42oo]

Cena is Undoubtably the top dog NO Questions asked...Beating Punk and Orton in what 8 minutes to win Superstar of the Year...One night after the "fluke" loss...While Sheamus does what? Makes a 2 minute promo and then walks away...Yeah JUNK BUCKETS...Cena is Number 1 end of story.