Which company has the momentum now?

[Dave]

I would certainly say that TNA seems to have the momentum right now.

You only have to look at what people around the boards are saying about TNA last night to realise that they have managed to do what many thought was impossible and that is get people to stop talking about WWE and start talking about TNA. I, for one, have never talked about TNA so much in my life and I am talking about it non-stop today. January the 4th 2010 is a huge night for TNA and it is obvious that TNA have the momentum right now. WWE went about their business and without Bret Hart it would have been a completely normal show. It had some really good matches and although those might have been above average, I honestly think that Bret Hart was the only great thing about Raw last night. TNA, on the other hand, had many great things going on last night, all designed to get you watching. The have stolen some of the biggest names from right under the nose of WWE and people are talking about it becoming permanent. If it does and Raw does not want to respond, I think I will be thinking seriously about which show I am watching. Last night, TNA showed me that they can compete with WWE and I am very much looking forward to seeing what the ratings are. I don't think they will be much higher than a 2 but we shall see.

 

[Suneeboy]

Last night was a great night to be a wrestling fan. We witnessed little ass fucking TNA punch the WWE right in the fucking nose. Did it knock down the WWE? No, but I bet they have their attention now. The momentum is clearly in favor of TNA right now. How can it not be? All the WWE showed us was Bret but what about the rest of the show? Hornswaggle with DX? Maryse vs the Bellas? Santino dressing up again? Please man. They put a lot of effort into Impact last night and it showed. Hardy, Flair, nWo teases, Hogan, great wrestling matches, AJ going over cleanly, the emotion was just all there last night on TNA, and the crowd was hot as fuck. I look forward to a Monday Night TNA show in the near future.

 

[NSL]

Yesterday, everyone I talked to who is a wrestling fan was bragging about WWE, and how historic it was that Bret was coming back. Today, it's all about how big of a FAIL RAW was, and how much better TNA was.

Bret showing up could have been epic, staring down HBK, slapping Vince, instead we get a bro-hug and a low blow? Really?

TNA's product last night was far better, and has been for months now. Let's hope people realize that. WWE didn't lose any momentum, but TNA could have gained a ton.

 

[Dave]

Yesterday, everyone I talked to who is a wrestling fan was bragging about WWE, and how historic it was that Bret was coming back. Today, it's all about how big of a FAIL RAW was, and how much better TNA was.

Bret showing up could have been epic, staring down HBK, slapping Vince, instead we get a bro-hug and a low blow? Really?

TNA's product last night was far better, and has been for months now. Let's hope people realize that. WWE didn't lose any momentum, but TNA could have gained a ton.

What a completely biased review if a show that you probably haven't even seen yet. Raw was certainly not a failure, not by any stretch of the imagination. It set out to do something and accomplished it. It didn't need to match the blows it was given by TNA. It got down to business and the Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart segment was amazing. If you watched WWE and/or gave a crap about the plight of Bret Hart in any way, you would have realised how much of a huge moment that was. I haven't been excited to call myself a wrestling fan in a while and it has been even longer since I was genuinely excited like I was last night. Bret Hart gave me goosebumps and got a reaction out of thet TNA could not match in it's wildest dreams. Reducing it to a "bro-hug" is just silly, to be honest. It was so much more than that and you know it. Everyone else seems to be impressed with TNA and know that it has been a good start for them. Please don't spoil it with "I tild you so's" and reductive arguments.

TNA had it's good point along with it's bad point, just like WWE did. WWE had some great matches last night and it was only matched by the AJ Styles and Kurtt ANgle match for sure. However, I could not care less about half of the segments that they showed and I was so pissed off by the amount of ad breaks it had. It was fucking ridiculous. There was no way that it was a three hour show last night. It was a three hour slot but half of it was advert and the other was Brian Knobs. Wow! Raw certainly wasn't a "FAIL" as you put it. I enjoyed it and I enjoyed TNA. Both cancelled each other out, in my opinion.

 

[NSL]

What a completely biased review if a show that you probably haven't even seen yet.

You're right. I haven't. I've talked to more than a few people that have (including Lee), and their exact words were all the same. "RAW was a big fat FAIL". Bret Hart arriving was being hyped to be bigger than Hogan arriving in TNA.

Hogan arriving in TNA made a statement, and pushed the young guys in every match. Bret in WWE didn't do that. It was a typical RAW show, which means it sucked, if you go by recent history, and didn't have the payoff I think most people were expecting.

 

[Michael]

I watched them together, Raw on Sky Sports and Impact on a stream and afterwards, I don't even know what is happening in TNA. Don't they have a PPV in a week or something? What's the matches? Who's feuding with who? I know none of these things because they were too interested in showing the Nasty Boyz or having Hogan steal AJ/Angle's moment and then ended it with a bunch of out of shape wrestlers attacking another out of shape wrestler.

Raw kicked off Bret/Vince, continued the brea up of DX [notice how often they've been arguing about stuff recently] continued the break up as Legacy, created a no Number 1 contender for the US title.

Raw was the better show without the ADD style booking

 

[Dave]

You're right. I haven't. I've talked to more than a few people that have (including Lee), and their exact words were all the same. "RAW was a big fat FAIL". Bret Hart arriving was being hyped to be bigger than Hogan arriving in TNA.

Hogan arriving in TNA made a statement, and pushed the young guys in every match. Bret in WWE didn't do that. It was a typical RAW show, which means it sucked, if you go by recent history, and didn't have the payoff I think most people were expecting.

You may be right, in some terms. With TNA really bringing some major surprises into it;s roster and show, I was expecting a little more from the WWE. However, WWE was never going to try and compete with TNA. If it had wanted to, the WWE would have pulled out all of the stops to ensure that people would be watching their show. That never happened. It was slightly underwhelming but only because I had been spoiled by all of the swerves and surprises that TNA pulled in the first hour. Judging Raw on what has been happening over the last few weeks, it is impossible to say that this show was not an improvement because it certainly was. Bret Hart was brilliant and the show adopted a great tone throughout. The matches themselves were great and I was only pissed off with how they used Sheamus and Evan Bourne. That being said, it was certainly an improvement on the last efforts on a standalone basis.

As for Bret arriving, what did you expect from him last night? He is going to be around for another couple of months and I am certain that he will be putting the young stars like the Hart Foundation over massively. Hart did make a statement by turning up last night too, NSL.

 

[MisterRob]

I'm really curious what TNA show people were watching with all this praise for TNA. All that matters, in the end, is TNA's first hour. That was the statement, that was the source of whether casual fans who tuned in, people who saw the advertisements and got an itch to see a product they hadn't viewed before, actually got hooked and stuck around. TNA's first hour was a complete flop. It was an epic fail (RAW's wasn't). A major clusterfuck. TNA's first hour was garbage and I bet the ratings are going to show that they gained nothing, they have no momentum what-so-ever, and only TNA fans or internet smarks waited through the horrendous first hour of TNA and watched the rest of it.. because casual fans wouldn't have. New fans wouldn't have. RAW on the other hand had a great opening, something everyone wanted to see, and I find it highly, highly unlikely that anyone stuck and watched Hulk Hogan in the ring over turning it to watch Bret Hart's 12 year in the making return. And if they switched, I don't see them having any reason to ever switch back to TNA after the horrible first hour they were given. This is the casual fans we're talking about, the people who aren't fans of TNA and know nothing about them. Internet smarks are so wrapped up in their own world they don't see the clear, defining realities. You complain about WWE being stale, complain about things like DX and Hornswoggle (which I hate myself), but when you watch the product and you hear the reaction those characters and those segments get then you realize that not the minority of internet smarks that write on websites like this or view forums like these, but the majority of fans are actually being entertained by that and enjoying it and they're fine with WWE's product. TNA did absolutely nothing to change that, because their product was so incoherent, all over the place, and poorly produced those who aren't TNA fans and therefore willing to sit throught it, wouldn't have.

The momentum goes to the show who pulled things off better and made people want to tune in next week. I don't see anything much interesting about TNA that makes me want to watch for the future. Do I want to see some power struggle that I clearly already know the answer to? Hogan and Bischoff are actually with Hall, Nash, and Waltman and are going to play the heels trying to gain control (while Hogan and Bischoff are pretending now to be good for business) against Jarrett and Foley who are the faced and it's just the same garbage storyline we've seen rehashed a thousand times, this time with truly old players involved. That doesn't interest me. A drunken, fat Scott Hall isn't something that's going to make me tune in next week to see if he's drunk or fat next week, because I know the answer! The power struggle isn't going to make me tune in next week to see what happens, because I already know where this is going and it doesn't interest me in the least. Do I want to see Sting's role in it? No, because I saw that play out back in 1997. TNA just tossed a bunch of names into their show (mostly old and unneeded) and there was nothing about the show I felt that built up to anything that's going to sell a PPV or make fans want to see whatever PPV they'll be selling, because they didn't push any actual wrestling feuds or build towards any actual MATCHES. Unless people really want to see Team 3D vs. the Nasty Boyz? It was meaningless. What's going to happen? Hogan, Jarret, Foley vs. Hall, Nash and Waltman? "Yeah, that's going to put some butts in the seats." They showed a main event they've already over done, that they already did weeks ago (and people complain about WWE doing the same matches over and over), and what.. that's going to be the PPV main event now? Why would I care to buy the PPV if I've already seen the match more then once on free tv? Or who else is going to headline the PPV? I don't know because they didn't build up to anything last night.

WWE meanwhile brought an end to certain feuds/storylines so they could now move on with fresh ones next week. Kofi/Orton seems over now, DX/Jerishow is over now, while beginning new feuds that WILL lead to matches.. such as MVP/Miz and most of all Bret Hart and Vince McMahon. WWE did work towards long term booking plans and building up to major PPVs. I think that gives WWE the momentum, for the long term, people must all just have ADD and were blinded by the clusterfuck of TNA to see the obvious. I personally can’t wait to see the ratings. I personally can’t wait to see the long term play out, because I’ve always tried to have hope for TNA, always wanted them to succeed, hoped they’d change directions from the crap they were previously doing and finally get on the right track to begin building towards something I could watch and be happy with. But this is a change for the WORSE. This is going backwards instead of forwards, and I’m going to sadly laugh when it all comes crumbling down. TNA could’ve been so much more.

 

[cole924]

I would like to make mention on one thing people keep discussing: Jeff Hardy

A lot of internet guys around here hated Jeff because he catered to kids. The kids had the sleeves, the facepaint, the Hardy t-shirt, etc. If Jeff Hardy really going to attract the 18-34 target that TNA wants? I mean, lets call it like it is. Hardy was always loved by the kids. Is this another one of these TNA/hypocrites situation where they all hated Hardy in the WWE but now think he's a savior for TNA?

He was the one guy I thought TNA brought in that could do damage to WWE, so I'm just wondering out loud at this point on what he can actually bring to TNA.

 

[Reddannihilation]

I would like to make mention on one thing people keep discussing: Jeff Hardy

A lot of internet guys around here hated Jeff because he catered to kids. The kids had the sleeves, the facepaint, the Hardy t-shirt, etc. If Jeff Hardy really going to attract the 18-34 target that TNA wants? I mean, lets call it like it is. Hardy was always loved by the kids. Is this another one of these TNA/hypocrites situation where they all hated Hardy in the WWE but now think he's a savior for TNA?

He was the one guy I thought TNA brought in that could do damage to WWE, so I'm just wondering out loud at this point on what he can actually bring to TNA.

I'll tell you one thing that TNA can bring to Jeff, a plethora of gimmick matches designed for the guy. Monster's Ball, Ultimate X, Full Metal Mayhem. Add that to standard ladder matches, tables matches and cage matches and you've got a ton of "holy shit" moments with Hardy's name on it. I've never had a thing against Hardy, in fact the general consensus I've found is that the people who dislike(d) Hardy aren't defined by which company they prefer but the style of wrestling they prefer. I've seen TNA fans and WWE fans both refer to him as a spot monkey and that's fine if they dislike high spots. But a lot of people love high spots and whilst TNA has people like AJ, MCMG, etc. who also make use of high-flying wrestling Hardy's more of a fusion of high-spots and gimmick matches. That's where he excels and if used correctly he can provide some excellent work. You made a point that he's always been way over with kids and you're right he has but that doesn't mean he wasn't over with adults too and TNA isn't against kids watching their show they're just not catering directly to them which IMO is better since kids grow up, adults don't grow down.

 

[Belladonna29]

While neither show was perfect, I think that TNA comes out of last night with more momentum, mainly because despite what each company could have done better, TNA did a great job displaying just how serious THEY were about being competition, and that's what the business needs.

The while it was disjointed in places, and should have had longer matches the first hour Impact just had a higher buzz and general excitement around it compared to what I saw on Raw.
You could argue that outside of Bret, Raw played it safe because TNA isn't nearly on the same level yet, but it felt like they stacked Raw beforehand in response to Impact, for the purpose of putting on a somewhat competitive show.

But the farther into both shows it went, the more I just wanted to watch Impact, mainly because it had developed that long-ago last feeling of "anything can happen--REALLY!" and I didn't want to miss what could happen.
With the exception of a few incidents, Raw hasn't has that feeling in ages and it worked against them last night.

Now is TNA going to be able to that every week? No.
But if the purpose of tonight was to grab some attention and seem like their at least capable of being an alternative to Raw, Impact swung for the fences, and I have to admit, that may have hit a home run with some people.

Also, the crowd in the Impact zone was very, very into the show and definitely helped Impact seem like a bigger deal.
And that's not the say that the Raw audience was sitting on their hands all night cause they popped for Bret, but it wasn't Earth-shattering, probably a symptom of too many kiddies in the audience ironically wondering where's Jeff Hardy, LOL.

Other than the Bret/Micheals confrontation ( which I thought was well done, but I still had this feeling that maybe something more should have happened ) and the DX/ Jerishow match (hopefully this leads to a title run for Jericho on SD ) nothing seemed...as important on Raw.

 

[desktop]

I would certainly say that TNA seems to have the momentum right now.

You only have to look at what people around the boards are saying about TNA last night to realise that they have managed to do what many thought was impossible and that is get people to stop talking about WWE and start talking about TNA. I, for one, have never talked about TNA so much in my life and I am talking about it non-stop today. January the 4th 2010 is a huge night for TNA and it is obvious that TNA have the momentum right now. WWE went about their business and without Bret Hart it would have been a completely normal show. It had some really good matches and although those might have been above average, I honestly think that Bret Hart was the only great thing about Raw last night. TNA, on the other hand, had many great things going on last night, all designed to get you watching. The have stolen some of the biggest names from right under the nose of WWE and people are talking about it becoming permanent. If it does and Raw does not want to respond, I think I will be thinking seriously about which show I am watching. Last night, TNA showed me that they can compete with WWE and I am very much looking forward to seeing what the ratings are. I don't think they will be much higher than a 2 but we shall see.

What Im saying is if Raw's numbers stay the same, then TNA would not have pulled their viewers, so neither got any momentum. Now again TNA did have the better show because of the new "old" faces being there, but if they did not dent Raws ratings, then what did the accomplish? The may have had a few new watchers, but unless Raws rating went down a little, TNA does not have momentum. Also ratings are HUGE, its what TV is all about, to say Dixie and Hogan dont care about ratings is laughable, again yes they care what the fans want, but as long as its in the spectrum of them getting ratings. What was the Monday Night Wars? It was a ratings war for viewers, and while it was awesome to have another show to watch on my dvr when the 1st one was done, unless there was a drop off in Raws rating, NOONE has momentum. IMO.

 

[Reddannihilation]

What Im saying is if Raw's numbers stay the same, then TNA would not have pulled their viewers, so neither got any momentum. Now again TNA did have the better show because of the new "old" faces being there, but if they did not dent Raws ratings, then what did the accomplish? The may have had a few new watchers, but unless Raws rating went down a little, TNA does not have momentum. Also ratings are HUGE, its what TV is all about, to say Dixie and Hogan dont care about ratings is laughable, again yes they care what the fans want, but as long as its in the spectrum of them getting ratings. What was the Monday Night Wars? It was a ratings war for viewers, and while it was awesome to have another show to watch on my dvr when the 1st one was done, unless there was a drop off in Raws rating, NOONE has momentum. IMO.

You do have a point here about RAW's ratings taking a hit (or lack thereof) but you are neglecting one thing. Take a look at the ratings for Raw and Nitro back in the 90's. Now, between the two shows there where combined ratings of anywhere between 6.5 and 8. Now unless you're going to put for the theory that all of those fans who are no longer represented by RAW's rating have died the question would be where are they? It's a known fact that up until quite recently TNA barely advertised, just looking at the Monday Impact Zone it was packed to the brim with a huge audience by comparison to their usual fare. So if we assume that a portion of what I'll call "disgruntled former WCW fans" heard about TNA, heard about Hogan and quite frankly going by the Impact Zone interviews with the fans outside a ton of them seem like former fans who were sick of Vince I think it'd be safe to say that TNA may have pulled in a fair share of "former" wrestling fans who have been disillusioned with the WWE product since the end of WCW and ECW. So whilst RAW's rating may not take a massive hit that doesn't mean TNA's won't have gone up. RAW may still pull a 3.5 a 4 whatever doesn't mean TNA's gonna pull the same 1 they always have, there's a lot of wrestling fans who simply haven't been given a reason to watch and I think with these past few weeks of Hogan promoting TNA that maybe they found one.

 

[HHHDiedForOurSins]

TNA has the momentum in that they've got more people talking, at least on the internet, but then again they had 20 new guys show up in the one show, so that should be expected.

Looking at the bigger picture going forward, I think WWE gained more momentum, the Bret-Vince-Shawn storyline I believe will deliver entertaining segments in the run up to Wrestlemania and has a long term goal (Vince will almost certainly get his comeuppance from Bret at WM), I will be shocked if they don't gain momentum from this and increased ratings. TNA on the other hand, only really set up some sort of storyline involving Hogan/NWO v Foley/Jarrett, we'll have to wait and see, but I don't think that will bring in viewers.

I really hope TNA gets a good rating for the show last night, I personally was disappointed with it, but wrestling needs them to succeed, and having both shows on the Monday made it an exciting night, which we rarely get anymore.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

As of right now TNA has a lot of momentum, what they do with that momentum is unseen yet. They could capitalize and keep getting better and better, until they force WWE to turn their product around. WWE though always has the momentum, even more so than TNA at the moment, while unfortunate that is the way it is.

 

[Dagger Dias]

So who has the upper hand? And why?

I'd say that WWE still has the upper hand because they managed to still score a pretty good rating even though Impact was competing with them. Also, it felt like TNA was trying its absolute hardest and that WWE was not. Other than Bret Hart it was just another episode. TNA's was PPV quality. TNA did a great job, but it will take more than one really great episode for them to get enough momentum. I think they can pull it off, but it will take a while.

 

[Sh0wst0pper]

I'll apologize in advance because I'm gonna take up a few lines but I bet some of you will agree with this! Ok, I can see how people are psyched to see someone finally step up and challenge King Vince and the WWE. I can also see how hardcore wrestling fans would LOVE to see another Monday Night War but WCW, TNA is NOT! Like everyone else that's in touch with REALITY, I was laughing my ass off at TNA's "awesome" Monday night show. I mean really, do TNA fans REALLY THINK that because you bring back a 56 year old Hulk Hogan (which the ONLY reason that happened is because he was pretty much GIVEN the company, by the way) and a 60 year old Ric Flair who didn't even get a promo BECAUSE TNA KNOWS BETTER, along with the other limping, creaking, washed up names (other than Jeff Hardy) that returned last night will be enough to compete with the likes of John Cena (yes, I said it and to hell with you if you don't like it!), John Morrison, Batista, Orton, HHH, HBK, Undertaker, The Hart Dynasty, Kofi, Swagger and all the other up and coming talent the WWE is producing?? The fans on TNA's show randomly started the "TNA" chant because they want this revolution SO bad but unfortunately TNA WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DELIVER! And don't even get me started on the dumbass that was trying to get out of the cage in the Steel Asylum fuck up of a match! In the long term, TNA has no chance of beating WWE..........UNLESS WWE continues to rest on their laurels! THIS PG SHIT IS NOT WORKING!!!! There's so much potential with WWE's talent that's being held back by this pointless direction that they're going. There's a reason the Attitude Era was so successful: BECAUSE IT WAS REAL! Society today LOVES MMA and if pro wrestling intends to compete with this mentality they're going have to mimic this as closely as possible. Again, I apologize for my rambling. Long story short: WWE wins but they still need to get their asses in gear!

 

[VKO]

Clearly its TNA. Impact was a great show from top to bottom. Sure the matches were a bit short but that was to fit in all of the surprises in the show. The signings of Flair,Moore,and Hardy were additions to the roster that I feel were neccessary. The re-birth of the NWO, the on-screen General Manager role of Eric Bischoff,anything and the return of Hulk Hogan were all pieces of storylines that many people will tune in to see in the next few weeks. Finally the match between Angle and Styles was a match that made any non-TNA fan a fan of the match quality presented in TNA.

Meanwhile WWE put on an incredibly lackluster show that did nothing but turn me off to the idea of WWE doing interesting in the coming months. The Bret Hart return was a complete waste nothing felt genuine and its abruptly clear to me that Hart is just in it for a check which is kind of sad to me as a Bret Hart fan.