The biggest thing that killed it is when they threw Alberto Del Rio into the Cena/Punk mix. They insisted on shoving him down our throats, but he wasn't who the fans cared about. All we wanted to see was an interesting, multi-month feud between Punk and Cena, but putting the belt on ADR right away just threw everything off and made it not fun anymore.
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What killed Punk's momentum in 2011?
- Thread starter hellod245
- Start date
wrestlingfan
Championship Contender
As much as I think Triple H killed Punk's momentum, I agree with this. Punk was going to die out soon once people realized that his only skill was breaking kayfabe.
Tha Wolfpac
Hey Yo...
It's simple, WWE themselves didn't think CM Punk would blow up like wildfire the way he did. Nobody anticipated it, hence what made it so special and what made CM Punk look like a star that night. WWE were not ready or didn't have anything in place to continue to push that huge amount of momentum. It was easy to see in the stop-start all over the place booking. Not only that, once CM Punk cut that infamous promo a huge weight of expectation befell him by everybody.
The fans wanted to hear that type of promo every week, when 'that' CM Punk wasn't delivering some people chucked a giant backflip on CM Punk. As i said beforehand what halted CM Punk's momentum was the fact that the heights CM Punk reached that night was not expected by anybody, so the WWE had trouble in booking forward and continuing that wave.
The fans wanted to hear that type of promo every week, when 'that' CM Punk wasn't delivering some people chucked a giant backflip on CM Punk. As i said beforehand what halted CM Punk's momentum was the fact that the heights CM Punk reached that night was not expected by anybody, so the WWE had trouble in booking forward and continuing that wave.
SacredMesa
Pre-Show Stalwart
What hurt CM Punk's momentum from that night? Simple that night CM Punk wasn't a face, he wasn't a heel, he was an anti-hero that was taking a stand for himself. Think of that promo for a second. Everyone always talks about how Punk ragged on WWE creative and Vince, etc etc but what they always forget was another part of the promo...
"Let's get something straight you people cheering me right now are as big a reason as why I leaving as anything. You're the ones who buy those cups and programs that I'm not on and then at 5am in the air port you shove it in my face to get an autograph so you can sell it on ebay because you're to lazy to go get a real job."
Punk was something we hadn't see in a long time, if ever. He was a guy that said what we wanted to say but he didn't say it for us, he was their for the fan he did it for himself. Frankly that made him feel bad ass, he wasn't kissing up to fans like Cena, he wasn't sucking up to some WWE brass, he was simply a renegade out for himself and didn't care who he took with him. It was unique in the WWE but instead of continueing to explore that WWE put him into full face mode and completely killed the character that drew people to him.
"Let's get something straight you people cheering me right now are as big a reason as why I leaving as anything. You're the ones who buy those cups and programs that I'm not on and then at 5am in the air port you shove it in my face to get an autograph so you can sell it on ebay because you're to lazy to go get a real job."
Punk was something we hadn't see in a long time, if ever. He was a guy that said what we wanted to say but he didn't say it for us, he was their for the fan he did it for himself. Frankly that made him feel bad ass, he wasn't kissing up to fans like Cena, he wasn't sucking up to some WWE brass, he was simply a renegade out for himself and didn't care who he took with him. It was unique in the WWE but instead of continueing to explore that WWE put him into full face mode and completely killed the character that drew people to him.
He came back way too soon. In typical modern day WWE fashion, they put zero effort into creating a big buildup for his return, they cared more that they wanted him back to increase SummerSlam buys. So we had this huge controversy about him leaving, a few weeks of Punk on Twitter posting pictures of the belt with him at Cubs games and conventions, and then he was back on Raw. They could have made as much, if not more money/ratings, if they had him return much later, but of course they go for quick and fast instead of giving storylines time to cook. As many times as we've been annoyed when Cena gets fired and then shows up next week anyway, they did the same thing with Punk.
And then of course this transitions into all the garbage that Punk was booked in after returning. Nash, HHH, etc. But none of this would have happened if he hadn't come back so soon, so again that's really where the problem began. I can just imagine the roar from the crowd and the media attention if Punk's music had hit after being gone for a few months. Not a few weeks after leaving with the belt.
And then of course this transitions into all the garbage that Punk was booked in after returning. Nash, HHH, etc. But none of this would have happened if he hadn't come back so soon, so again that's really where the problem began. I can just imagine the roar from the crowd and the media attention if Punk's music had hit after being gone for a few months. Not a few weeks after leaving with the belt.
Sexcellence of Sexecution
#SwerveKing
It's pretty clear to see that Punk was mishandled coming off of all the momentum he built leading into MITB in Chicago. I'm a huge Kevin Nash mark, don't get me wrong, but his inclusion was unnecessary and the whole text message angle involving Triple H was overly complicated and ultimately pointless. Also, the fact that they blew their load on the Punk/HHH match after like one month was a wasted opportunity.
After Money In The Bank, they did the angle where Vince was replaced as the head of the company by Triple H. Triple H then decided to have a tournament to crown a new WWE Champion. This idea was fine, but I think they should've stretched the tournament out a little more, maybe had 16 competitors in it, and held the finals at SummerSlam. CM Punk would continue to make off-TV appearances with his WWE Title, like what they did at Comic-Con, and could maybe post some videos on YouTube. Rumours would then be leaked online that he was going to show up at SummerSlam in the crowd. This would peak the interest of the audience as they would be wondering what Punk might do at the show. In the Information Age, it's very easy to keep someone highly relevant in the minds of fans without having them appear on TV, things like YouTube and social media can accomplish this wonderfully.
So this brings us to SummerSlam, where we have our tournament finals of John Cena vs. Rey Mysterio in a huge face vs. face match in the main event. CM Punk is in attendance, with his own WWE Title. John Cena wins the match against Rey, and is crowned the new WWE Champion. CM Punk then jumps the guardrail and decks him with his Title belt before getting taken down by security as the pay-per-view does a hard cut to black, ending the show (we don't see the typical end of the show logo or anything like that).
Leading up to Night of Champions, it is revealed that Triple H has managed to re-sign CM Punk, and Punk explains his motivation for coming back (so that he could affect change in the WWE, alter the status quo AKA John Cena on top, and be the "voice of the voiceless"). This leads to our main event at Night of Champions, WWE Champion John Cena vs. WWE Champion CM Punk. Night of Champions is much more fitting pay-per-view for this match. Of course, during this whole time we are seeing tension between CM Punk and Triple H and Punk continues to push the boundaries, saying some controversial things on the mic.
So, at Night of Champions, CM Punk wins, becoming the undisputed WWE Champion. We continue to see Punk play the anti-authority role, as tensions continue to mount between he and Triple H. The next pay-per-view is Hell In A Cell (fuck Vengeance, that PPV should never have even happened). John Cena challenges CM Punk to a re-match, inside the Cell. Punk accepts on the condition that if he wins, John Cena will never get another shot at the WWE Title as long as he's champion (you could also make the stipualtion that he'll never get a WWE Title shot at any time in the next year). This stipulation makes sense as Punk is trying to affect change, and he doesn't want Cena in the main event spot any more. Punk believes Cena's been in the title picture too long and it's time for something fresh and different. Cena accepts this condition, setting the stage for a huge Hell In A Cell Match, to conclude their rivalry.
In the promos leading up to Hell In A Cell you have Punk talking about the blood and weapon restrictions currently in place in the WWE, and say that he's throwing all of WWEs "PG policies" out the window come Hell In A Cell. This would make all the internet fans wet in their pants and would hype up the PPV immensely for the audience at large. For it to work though, Cena and Punk would legitimately have to be willing to break the no blood rule and get busted open in their Cell Match. This once again would make Punk seem "cutting edge" and "controversial" which is the whole point of his character.
Punk would of course win the Hell In A Cell Match, ending the feud with Cena. The problems between Punk and Triple H would then start to mount leading up to WrestleMania where Triple H would take matters into his own hands, and step into the ring against Punk. Their feud would have been building for months by then without any real physical interaction and it's the perfect match for Punk at WrestleMania. It's the authority vs. the anti-authority, with the future of the WWE in the balance. it's such a great clash of characters and both Punk and Triple H are great workers so they could deliver one hell of a WrestleMania match. Yes, this would mean undertaker would have to face somebody else, but it would be worth it as this would really help to establish a new star that could be a selling point for numerous WrestleManias down the road. If you HAD to have Taker/HHH you could do Punk/HHH at the Rumble perhaps, so it still has a lot of build up to it and its at a major PPV.
So yeah, that's more or less how I would've handled the whole situation to better capitalize on Punk's momentum and put him over as a bigger star. If you read through all of that, I appreciate it. What it comes down to at the end of the day, is that Punk was a guy who got extremely over as a face, extremely quickly. It took WWE by surprise and they didn't know how to best take advantage of the whole situation mainly because I don't think they really understood the appeal of CM Punk's character.
After Money In The Bank, they did the angle where Vince was replaced as the head of the company by Triple H. Triple H then decided to have a tournament to crown a new WWE Champion. This idea was fine, but I think they should've stretched the tournament out a little more, maybe had 16 competitors in it, and held the finals at SummerSlam. CM Punk would continue to make off-TV appearances with his WWE Title, like what they did at Comic-Con, and could maybe post some videos on YouTube. Rumours would then be leaked online that he was going to show up at SummerSlam in the crowd. This would peak the interest of the audience as they would be wondering what Punk might do at the show. In the Information Age, it's very easy to keep someone highly relevant in the minds of fans without having them appear on TV, things like YouTube and social media can accomplish this wonderfully.
So this brings us to SummerSlam, where we have our tournament finals of John Cena vs. Rey Mysterio in a huge face vs. face match in the main event. CM Punk is in attendance, with his own WWE Title. John Cena wins the match against Rey, and is crowned the new WWE Champion. CM Punk then jumps the guardrail and decks him with his Title belt before getting taken down by security as the pay-per-view does a hard cut to black, ending the show (we don't see the typical end of the show logo or anything like that).
Leading up to Night of Champions, it is revealed that Triple H has managed to re-sign CM Punk, and Punk explains his motivation for coming back (so that he could affect change in the WWE, alter the status quo AKA John Cena on top, and be the "voice of the voiceless"). This leads to our main event at Night of Champions, WWE Champion John Cena vs. WWE Champion CM Punk. Night of Champions is much more fitting pay-per-view for this match. Of course, during this whole time we are seeing tension between CM Punk and Triple H and Punk continues to push the boundaries, saying some controversial things on the mic.
So, at Night of Champions, CM Punk wins, becoming the undisputed WWE Champion. We continue to see Punk play the anti-authority role, as tensions continue to mount between he and Triple H. The next pay-per-view is Hell In A Cell (fuck Vengeance, that PPV should never have even happened). John Cena challenges CM Punk to a re-match, inside the Cell. Punk accepts on the condition that if he wins, John Cena will never get another shot at the WWE Title as long as he's champion (you could also make the stipualtion that he'll never get a WWE Title shot at any time in the next year). This stipulation makes sense as Punk is trying to affect change, and he doesn't want Cena in the main event spot any more. Punk believes Cena's been in the title picture too long and it's time for something fresh and different. Cena accepts this condition, setting the stage for a huge Hell In A Cell Match, to conclude their rivalry.
In the promos leading up to Hell In A Cell you have Punk talking about the blood and weapon restrictions currently in place in the WWE, and say that he's throwing all of WWEs "PG policies" out the window come Hell In A Cell. This would make all the internet fans wet in their pants and would hype up the PPV immensely for the audience at large. For it to work though, Cena and Punk would legitimately have to be willing to break the no blood rule and get busted open in their Cell Match. This once again would make Punk seem "cutting edge" and "controversial" which is the whole point of his character.
Punk would of course win the Hell In A Cell Match, ending the feud with Cena. The problems between Punk and Triple H would then start to mount leading up to WrestleMania where Triple H would take matters into his own hands, and step into the ring against Punk. Their feud would have been building for months by then without any real physical interaction and it's the perfect match for Punk at WrestleMania. It's the authority vs. the anti-authority, with the future of the WWE in the balance. it's such a great clash of characters and both Punk and Triple H are great workers so they could deliver one hell of a WrestleMania match. Yes, this would mean undertaker would have to face somebody else, but it would be worth it as this would really help to establish a new star that could be a selling point for numerous WrestleManias down the road. If you HAD to have Taker/HHH you could do Punk/HHH at the Rumble perhaps, so it still has a lot of build up to it and its at a major PPV.
So yeah, that's more or less how I would've handled the whole situation to better capitalize on Punk's momentum and put him over as a bigger star. If you read through all of that, I appreciate it. What it comes down to at the end of the day, is that Punk was a guy who got extremely over as a face, extremely quickly. It took WWE by surprise and they didn't know how to best take advantage of the whole situation mainly because I don't think they really understood the appeal of CM Punk's character.
Yeah I read all this and it was a good idea but I dont think Vince would let anyone say that he is throwing pg shtick out of the window because PG is not going to end and if Punk says that just for the sake of it, it kinda make him look weaker because nothing PG would not be changed and fans will feel cheated.
I was also thinking to have HHH vs Punk at wrestlemania but keep Vince Punk on TV and dont let HHH come out untill Royal Rumble or something. At Royal Rumble we would have Punk vs one wrestler of Vince`s chosing(may be Miz or barrett) and if Punk wins he get to fight Vince right after. Punk would win and when he was about to beat vince HHH would make the save. That would instantly make him heel (who ever come in aid of evil boss is a heel). Thus setting up a match between hhh vs Punk
Right. The lowest ratings for Raw in 15 years. Awesome?
9 out 10 times it doesn't look good. A good finishing move looks good 99 out of 100 times.
This is what I'm saying.....since MITB 11 he has been in 3 great matches. MITB, TLC, and WM vs Jericho. It's not enough to ride that momentum. It's not enough to spread the word. CM Punk failed the wrestling community. We all expected so much more. He walked out on us. He gave up.
He used to be a good wrestler when he took bumps and worked his ass off but now he is too lazy.
Steamboat Ricky
WZCW's Living Legend
Rock-Cena...but moreso Cena.
After Summerslam had come and gone (and likely after his match w/ Trips at Night of Champions), everyone knew that Rock-Cena was just about to burst onto the scene. So, Punk was relegated to always being in a second-tier storyline.
Furthermore, you couldn't have Punk bashing "Dwayne" like he had been doing to get himself over in the summer, as WWE needed to keep the aura of a returning Rock pristine, getting as much positive heat to balance with the mixture that was going to come the way of Cena. They put everything on the success of Rock-Cena, and they were not going to allow the ascension of Punk to make it anything less than the biggest matchup of all-time.
So, you have Punk's ascension squelched, having him feud with the likes of ADR, Ziggler, and Jericho at the beginning of 2012, all second/third tier stars. Punk needed the rub from Cena (or someone at the top, Trips, Taker, that's about it...top talent was thin) a little bit longer, but they likely didn't want to make him into a bonafide star yet.
After Summerslam had come and gone (and likely after his match w/ Trips at Night of Champions), everyone knew that Rock-Cena was just about to burst onto the scene. So, Punk was relegated to always being in a second-tier storyline.
Furthermore, you couldn't have Punk bashing "Dwayne" like he had been doing to get himself over in the summer, as WWE needed to keep the aura of a returning Rock pristine, getting as much positive heat to balance with the mixture that was going to come the way of Cena. They put everything on the success of Rock-Cena, and they were not going to allow the ascension of Punk to make it anything less than the biggest matchup of all-time.
So, you have Punk's ascension squelched, having him feud with the likes of ADR, Ziggler, and Jericho at the beginning of 2012, all second/third tier stars. Punk needed the rub from Cena (or someone at the top, Trips, Taker, that's about it...top talent was thin) a little bit longer, but they likely didn't want to make him into a bonafide star yet.
I'd say it was a number of things. The whole storyline where it turned out to be Nash text messaging himself to attack Punk made absolutely no sense, and then we have the loss against Trips at Night of Champions, and finally being overshadowed by Cena & The Rock. For the most part I did not have any issues with the booking as it happened in real life, but there are a couple of things I would have changed. Nash would not have come back at all. That eliminates the need for the storyline of him texting himself an order to attack Punk at Summerslam. Del Rio could have done the attack himself and still cashed in his MITB opportunity, since he was allowed to at any time all he had to do was attack Punk himself and then cash in, so he still leaves Summerslam as WWE Champion and we do not have to endure the Nash text disaster of an angle. Trips could have picked a representative to face Punk at Night of Champions rather than face him himself, and Punk should have won.
Tag teaming with Trips against Awesome Truth was also a bad idea. Why did that even happen? Punk should have been facing Del Rio for the WWE Championship at that point. He would go on to win it, and then we see the final nail in the coffin. Punk's lack of closing a long string of PPV events with his title defenses. This goes into 2012 but it is part of how Punk lost momentum. Stupid storylines and being booked to appear to not be as big of a deal as Cena or Trips are the main reasons he lost momentum. The main things I would have wanted to see changed are no Nash angle, Del Rio feuding with Punk after Night of Champions rather than Cena, and Punk closing several PPV events with his title retentions. He would have more momentum now had WWE gone that route.
Tag teaming with Trips against Awesome Truth was also a bad idea. Why did that even happen? Punk should have been facing Del Rio for the WWE Championship at that point. He would go on to win it, and then we see the final nail in the coffin. Punk's lack of closing a long string of PPV events with his title defenses. This goes into 2012 but it is part of how Punk lost momentum. Stupid storylines and being booked to appear to not be as big of a deal as Cena or Trips are the main reasons he lost momentum. The main things I would have wanted to see changed are no Nash angle, Del Rio feuding with Punk after Night of Champions rather than Cena, and Punk closing several PPV events with his title retentions. He would have more momentum now had WWE gone that route.
stonecoldstv86
Smoking Skull
It was because he couldn't deliver the Ice Cream Bars!
Ok really, I don't really think that his momentum was killed. The fans were behind him. One of the top wrestlers in the company. Even getting bigger pops then Cena.
The "shoot" promo is what started it. But when you start on that high of a note can't really keep that going at that level. Plus he was more handcuffed and only "managment" he could take shots on is Johny Ace. Which was way too much of an easy target. He couldn't do the huge pipe bombs, calling WWE out on all their crap. The "shoot" promo made us think that it could be the first step of getting away from all the PG stuff. Which when Punk came back, which was too soon, he was restriked, had attitude but it was watered down to PG and within storylines which were not that great.
Even with all that stuff, the fans were still behind him, still getting bigger pops then the face of the company. Which he knew Vince wasn't going to replace Cena as the face of the company for him so he desided to go for the top heel spot which was wide open.
Ok really, I don't really think that his momentum was killed. The fans were behind him. One of the top wrestlers in the company. Even getting bigger pops then Cena.
The "shoot" promo is what started it. But when you start on that high of a note can't really keep that going at that level. Plus he was more handcuffed and only "managment" he could take shots on is Johny Ace. Which was way too much of an easy target. He couldn't do the huge pipe bombs, calling WWE out on all their crap. The "shoot" promo made us think that it could be the first step of getting away from all the PG stuff. Which when Punk came back, which was too soon, he was restriked, had attitude but it was watered down to PG and within storylines which were not that great.
Even with all that stuff, the fans were still behind him, still getting bigger pops then the face of the company. Which he knew Vince wasn't going to replace Cena as the face of the company for him so he desided to go for the top heel spot which was wide open.
the wwe is trying to not make stars. everytime someone gets a little over, they pull the rug out from under him. they did it to kofi in his fued with orton. they did it to miz after wrestlemania. they did it to punk. they just have zero interest in building new stars. the last star to get over big was jeff hardy. and he killed his own momentum.
Punk became very dull. He just started bitching in every promo and was trying too hard to appeal to smarks. He became the first whiney babyface. He did his best work with Cena. Other than that all his other angles when he was a babyface were garbage.
Their was no reason to place Triple H in the Punk/Cena angle. And Nash announcing he texted himself was ******ed.
They never screwed him out of the title either. So Punk's anti establishment gimmick didn't work well after the Cena feud. He won back the title rather easily against Del Rio.
I think all those factors are why he lost some momentum as a babyface. Most of his title reign felt like an after thought. It took him doing a heel turn to breathe some new life into his reign.
Their was no reason to place Triple H in the Punk/Cena angle. And Nash announcing he texted himself was ******ed.
They never screwed him out of the title either. So Punk's anti establishment gimmick didn't work well after the Cena feud. He won back the title rather easily against Del Rio.
I think all those factors are why he lost some momentum as a babyface. Most of his title reign felt like an after thought. It took him doing a heel turn to breathe some new life into his reign.
Texas Tornado
Occasional Pre-Show
It was easy to see in the stop-start all over the place booking. Not only that, once CM Punk cut that infamous promo a huge weight of expectation befell him by everybody.His match with Jericho at WM was very good technical display. WWE did a horrible job to put that match right after Hell In A Cell.
So true! Thank you! Punk is very, very good, but not the next face of the company. Edgy and straight-edgy as he may be, looking for excuses isn't going to make Punk the best wrestler ever, like so many of us think. Fans will be fans, I respect that, but at some point you have to think that maybe it's nobody's fault but his own.
