Where does John Cena rank among all-time greats?

[Ryan Edwards]

Like him or not, I don't see how anyone doesn't put John Cena in the top 4 among Hulk Hogan, The Rock, and Stone Cold Steve Austin.

The man not only has been the company's number one guy for over a decade but he has been apart of pop culture just as the others have been. Multiple title reigns (I think the only title he hasn't captured is the Intercontinental Championship), movies, his own album, magazines, ESPN, E! and Disney Channel, award shows and ceremonies, two WrestleMania matchups with The Rock, top merchandise sales. Top Make-A-Wish wishmaker. The man does it all, not just in the ring but also out of the ring as well, I could go and on about his accomplishments.

John Cena IS the WWE right now. I don't care what anyone says.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

Like him or not, I don't see how anyone doesn't put John Cena in the top 4 among Hulk Hogan, The Rock, and Stone Cold Steve Austin.

The man not only has been the company's number one guy for over a decade but he has been apart of pop culture just as the others have been. Multiple title reigns (I think the only title he hasn't captured is the Intercontinental Championship), movies, his own album, magazines, ESPN, E! and Disney Channel, award shows and ceremonies, two WrestleMania matchups with The Rock, top merchandise sales. Top Make-A-Wish wishmaker. The man does it all, not just in the ring but also out of the ring as well, I could go and on about his accomplishments.

John Cena IS the WWE right now. I don't care what anyone says.

Hogan put wrestling on the map.
Austin saved it from going bankrupt.
Rock took it to unprecedented heights.


Cena isn't close to these 3 icons. Nobody even watches wrestling today.

 

[CharlesKane]

Because of the wide degree of subjective qualities that make a great superstar, everyone will have their own opinions based on how they weight certain qualities. For me, I'd say as far as wwf/wwe history 1. HBK 2. Hogan 3. Rock 4. Austin 5. Andre 6. Undertaker 7. VKM(The top heel of the most popular era of wwe) 8. Cena 9. Edge 10. Bret Hart

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

Austin didn't say wrestling from going bankrupt, he saved the WWE from going bankrupt, BIG difference.

True ... but let's be honest. If WWE was the same financial state in 1998/1999 as it was in 1996/1997. WWE would have lost the Monday Night Wars to WCW and possibly gone bankrupt. However I still think WCW would have gone bankrupt or gone under even if it won the Monday Night Wars.

As strange as it sounds Nitro still had very good ratings even when it was losing to WWE during 1998 and 1999, it was dong respectable 3's, which is the number RAW does these days. Difference is WCW was going to bleed money no matter what and the AOL Time Warner merger could have possibly killed WCW regardless.

This would have left both WCW and WWE dead by 2000/2001.

It's a theory but I still believe this

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

True ... but let's be honest. If WWE was the same financial state in 1998/1999 as it was in 1996/1997. WWE would have lost the Monday Night Wars to WCW and possibly gone bankrupt. However I still think WCW would have gone bankrupt or gone under even if it won the Monday Night Wars.

As strange as it sounds Nitro still had very good ratings even when it was losing to WWE during 1998 and 1999, it was dong respectable 3's, which is the number RAW does these days. Difference is WCW was going to bleed money no matter what and the AOL Time Warner merger could have possibly killed WCW regardless.

This would have left both WCW and WWE dead by 2000/2001.

It's a theory but I still believe this

I really think your theory is wrong but I can't prove it. I will give you credit, but WCW wins guys like the ROCK, Trips, and Mankind wouldn't have just disappeared, and WCW did try to move away from the older guys in WCW in the later years. Could you imagine if the WCW would've been pushing the Rock instead of billy kidman? Big difference there, or even Triple H instead of Billy Kidman, and with Russo running things Austin wouldn't have been a joke in WCW either imo, I don't know what would've happened but I think it's a stretch to say wrestling would be dead.

 

[That One Guy]

This is a tricky question. Wording is everything. While John Cena is easily one of the top 5 stars the industry has ever seen, the question is is he one of the greatest? Cena's level of stardom is something very few have ever achieved. He's right there with Hogan, The Rock, and Austin. But greatness is measured by a different standard.

Personally, I think HBK is the all time greatest. He was never as big a star as Cena is, but his in-ring abilities and mic skills were both legendary. Cena is a solid wrestler. He's no HBK or Kurt Angle or Brett Hart, but he is a solid wrestler who has put on many of classic matches. His character has been pretty one dimensional for a very long time, which is unfortunate. His mic skills are excellent and he tells great stories, both inside and outside the ring. He is definitely one of the greats. No question. I'd probably have him in the top 20, but I don't think he'd break the top ten.

 

[Mark0820]

For me, I put 5-10. The reason I did it is you have the top 3 which no one really should dispute:

1. Hogan
2. Austin
3. Rock

But then you have Bruno, Andre, Bret, Savage, Piper, Flair, Dusty Rhodes, HBK, Taker, Harley Race, Sting, Lawler, etc. I would go along with Cena being put higher up than some of them if not most, but he'd miss the top 5 because at least two of them were flat out better than Cena ever could be.

Cena's 14 world titles are a little tainted to me(as are all the world champs since the brand split) because if Cena wasn't in the WWE title picture, after the brand split stopped mattering, he could go over and face the WHC and win a title. When the older guys wrestled, if they were in a feud for the WWF/NWA/AWA/WCW titles they were THE top face or heel in the company. Cena is the face of the company now and has been for a long time, but he could feud for two world titles at any given time and be top billed. These other guys had one.

 

[Kidpolean]

Im very surprised with the poll results. Cena gets some much hate on here but the majority think that he is top 4 all time??? Thats strange lol.

IMO, Cena's longevity doesnt weigh much. Just simply being around doesnt make you great. I look at impact and how I will remember the wrestler 10-20 years from now. After I though for about 10 minutes about this, I came to the conclusion that I wont remember much about Cena. I cant rememeber a GREAT promo, he has had really good matches but NO legendary ones IMO, and I wouldnt rank any of his feuds as legendary I either. I really like Cena, I think he is great but NO WAY IN HELL is he in the same league as guys like Rock, Austin, or Hogan.

1 Hogan
2 Austin
3 Rock
4 Bruno
5 Andre
6 HBK
7 Taker
8 Savage
9 HHH
10 Cena

So id put him at 10...HHH is over him because he has had superior matches, feuds, promos, and storylines imo.

I personally dont care about how much money someone brings in, and as fans, I dont see why we would use that in an all time greats argument.

 

[solidsnake]

I voted for him as between 5 and 10 and personally id consider him to be after scsa rock cm punk bob backlund hogan andre and rowdy and possibly a couple more in no specific order.


The only reason for my judgement is because i still want to see supercena as a heel that is like the final test for him now he has been a face for so long.......hes good at it without a doubt excetionally good but when you talk about all time greats u should be able to say hes been there done that for everything.
He has been heel alright but for what 4 months during a period when he was low mid card or mid card at best....
I hate cena but i know for a fact that he is pretty damn good at what he sies at the moment i am pretty sure hes gonna be a leading heel to but still waiting for that switch.fingers crossed.someday
As of now not in my top 5 regardless of what he has accomplished which i agree is a lot

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Okay, if I have to i'd put him as an equal to Rock. about fourth or fifth. I know some might say that's insane but Cena has helped with the surge in WM buyrates. Ranks third in merchandise sales above the Rock while Rock has better Ratings and possibly bigger moments. That said it's close, I know some will hate me for saying that but it's just the way it is.

All time WWE -

1)Hogan
2)Bruno
3) Austin
4) Cena/Rock

That said I'd give you an all time list but it does change for me. I like Misawa (top ten imo all time) above most, Santo has to be high on the list, and Inoki as well. But WWE doesn't have a HUGE number in my top ten all time.

 

[Bernkastel]

Whoa whoa whoa, you have Verne Gagne, Harley Race, and John Cena above Misawa? That's just not right.

Yes I do. And I'm one of the few on the site that's knows enough about Misawa to place him. Though a few of the names outside my top 5 are interchangeable Misawa isn't as big as any of them, and that includes Gagne and Race for sure. At best Misawa would be Cena/Sting/Bockwinkel/Brisco/Mascaras tier. If I had kept going Misawa probably would have made the next batch of five. Hasimoto probably would have been somewhere in there too.

That said, Cena is amazing as far as American wrestlers go he's going to be top ten at some point. He's just reaching the peak of his story telling in ring, and he's got quite a few years left in him. That said he's one of the best ever and just being on a list with these guys is amazing.

Yep. He's been runner up of the Wrestlezone Tournament twice. That should tell you enough.

 

[James Greiga]

I can't believe most of you guys that say he is. I can think of 10 guys who are ahead of him already. Hulk Hogan, Andre, Stone Cold, HBK, The Rock, Randy Savage, Bret Hart, Undertaker, Ric Flair, Roddy Piper. Boom 10 right there. John Cena is a classic case of if you tell someone something enough they'll believe it. WWE has told you how great Cena is therefore you think he is but he's not.

Just because he was booked to be a great doesn't make him a great. And it really shocks me that many of you think he is. What has John Cena truly done to make him an all-time great? Hogan, Andre, Savage and Flair need no explanation. Roddy Piper changed the way we view wrestlers and promos. Stone Cold introduced a completely new era, Rock made the biggest impact of any wrestler in the shortest amount of time. HBK's in-ring work speaks for itself not to mention he has often been given the best feuds and same can be said for Bret Hart. Undertaker has a legacy that is incomparable to any wrestler which is why he is the most respected wrestler of all time.

What has John Cena done? In his entire career he's had only a few good matches with HBK, Cm Punk, and Bryan but that's only because his opponents carried him. He hasn't "stolen" the show at any Wrestlemania, each match at Wrestlemania has always been overshadowed by another match or another person

WM 21 = overshadowed by Angle/HBK and Batista/HHH
WM 22 = overshadowed by WHC triple threat and Edge/Foley
WM 23 = overshadowed by Undertaker/Batista
WM 24 = overshadowed by Flair/HBK and Undertaker/Edge
WM 25 = overshadowed by Undertaker/HBK
WM 26 = overshadowed by HBK/Undertaker
WM 27 = overshadowed by Rock
WM 28 = overshadowed by Rock
WM 29 = overshadowed by Rock and Undertaker/Cm Punk
WM 30 = he'll be overshadowed again by Daniel Bryan

His buyrates and sales haven't been great. Yeah they're good in comparison to the crap rates and sales of the current roster but thats only by comparison. He hasn't become the media phenomenons that Hogan, Andre, Rock, or even Austin achieved during their peaks. He isn't innovative on the mic like Piper, he doesn't pull in the casual nonwrestling fans like Rock and Austin, he didn't make WWE more than just a redneck sport like Andre, he doesn't have the balance of great mic skills and in-ring skills that HBK, Flair, and Savage had. He doesn't have the undeniable respect that Undertaker has acquired. His in-ring work isn't just so incredible that all is forgiven like Bret Hart.

Please in what way is he an all-time great? By being the best of the worst? He's buried more guys than Hogan and HBK. Yet because WWE claims him to be the best in the business we should believe it? If everything WWE says is true then why aren't you same fans agreeing with them about Bryan being nothing more than a glorified midcarder??? John Cena's mic skills are mediocre, his jokes are terrible, and he is stale as shit.

 

[Bernkastel]

Your list is ridiculous.

Your logic is ridiculous

On WWE history, you put Flair ahead of Rock but on All-Time history, you put Rock ahead of Flair? WTF??? Makes no sense.

Based on traditional drawing power Flair trumps Rocky. As far as sheer name value... Rock owes more to Hollywood for boosting his name value than wrestling. At worst those two are interchangeable.

I'm not talking about BIGGEST stars, I'm talking about GREATEST stars which includes in ring skills, mic skills...

The biggest stars were the greatest stars.

And if we're talking about the biggest stars, Cena number 15? Over Andre The Giant? ANDRE THE GIANT?

Yes.

Andre is probably the biggest wrestling draw ever!!

No he wasn't. Lou Thesz alone was like ten times the draw Andre was. Andre has his place, and it's below Cena.

No Gorgeous george? No Fred Blassie? No Buddy Rogers?

No. You might as well be claiming Chris Jericho is a bigger star than Cena.

Also, Japanese wrestling NEVER had the success North American wrestling had in the world.

Yes, it did. WWE - the only global promotion - has only been so for the last few years. During the AE they were still a national company.

You're ranking a lot of those guys way higher than they should be.

Not really. Most of the names I gave are interchangeable, but everyone in my top 10 deserves to be there.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Yes I do. And I'm one of the few on the site that's knows enough about Misawa to place him. Though a few of the names outside my top 5 are interchangeable Misawa isn't as big as any of them, and that includes Gagne and Race for sure. At best Misawa would be Cena/Sting/Bockwinkel/Brisco/Mascaras tier. If I had kept going Misawa probably would have made the next batch of five. Hasimoto probably would have been somewhere in there too.

I'd like to argue the point with you if you don't mind? Misawa was huge big enough that he was the top star in the biggest era of Japanese wrestling. Best wrestler of the time (imo all time) and he took part in not only the most memorable matches in AJPW and NOAH but he also had the bigger feuds imo. Jumbo Tsuruta, Kobashi, and Taue. He changed the wrestling world when he opened NOAH. Not only that but when he did it was only a few years before NOAH was the biggest promotion in Japan, and what happened to stop it? Misawa's death, after that moment, everything went on the decline. Misawa's importance can't be overstated.

That said I have him above Verne, Race, and Cena atm. Inoki had a better cross over appeal than Misawa which is the one thing that lacks from his historic career. Misawa was as big as they come in Japan, and only is surpassed by Rikidozan, Inoki, and possibly Baba(although i disagree with that) To me the legacy debate is hard but Misawa's presence was as large as anyone in Japanese wrestling, the only reason he will never be on the same level as some others is because the Japanese have a profound respect for their elders and the past.

Yep. He's been runner up of the Wrestlezone Tournament twice. That should tell you enough.

DAMN! lol did not know that.

 

[jc_ultimate]

It seems to me that most people in that particular thread are using greatness to equate to importance or historical significance to the WWE. I doubt nearly as many people would vote John Cena as top 5 all time in ring performers, or even top 5 personal favorite wrestlers. Great is a very subjective term, and unless it's to be defined by the specific thread or poll a poster can choose whatever way they want to determine greatness.

In fact, when browsing through the ranking thread many people started their posts with something along the lines of, "Like him or not" so obviously in their view greatness of a wrestler does not equate to personal enjoyment, which I would disagree with, but who am I to tell them what greatness is or is not when I didn't even start the thread.

 

[James Greiga]

Who exactly has John Cena buried?

Well there's the entire Nexus, there's Ryback, Zack Ryder, The Miz, Dolph Ziggler, R-Truth, Bobby Lashley and there's a few others. John Cena is the opposite of King Midas, everything he touches turns to shit. Once those wrestlers became assoicated with John Cena whether it be a partnership or in a feud it all went downhill and so did their careers. You cannot deny that. The Nexus has to be the biggest example of that

 

[grantedisme]

At this point, I'd put Cena as 3rd or 4th, next to Undertaker. My top 5 list goes:

1) Hogan
2) Stone Cold Steve Austin
3) Cena/Undertaker
4) Cena/Undertaker
5) Macho Man Randy Savage/Andre the Giant

I don't think Cena will move up from 3 to 2 in my mind, but 3 is still a fantastic place to be in the history of the business, and there is no shame in not having a legacy that is barely below the fantastic legacies of Stone Cold's or Hogan's. He embodies this era, serves as a great role model to kids, represents the WWE admirably in interviews, is entertaining on the mic, and regularly puts on good matches in the ring.

I just feel fortunate to have been watching all of these (with the notable exception of Andre the Giant) at their respective peaks.

 

[Zycho32]

If I were John Cena, I'd make a quip about you losing your medication today.

But okay, taking the subject seriously;

-Pretty much everyone seriously bashing Cena's in-ring ability claims the good matches he's had were a direct result of his opponent 'carrying' him... and that's as far as their claim goes. No real elaboration, nothing akin to tangible evidence one way or another. I read those claims and question marks appear over my head, because I'm not being enlightened so much as I am being talked down to. Can you offer something tangible there?

-Mentioning Undertaker amongst those you consider greater than John Cena is quite interesting, as Cena might actually be the closest any wrestler will ever come to matching Taker's scale of loyalty to the business and WWE in general. One would almost hope that when Cena is finally incapable of remaining in the Main Event picture, he evolves, or is allowed to evolve, into the sort of Locker Room Sensei that Taker is.

-I would describe Cena's overall work ethic, especially outside the ring, as utterly 'Ruthless' in his pace and dedication. Put it this way; Hogan and Andre and Austin and Rock never had Cena's 'drive' when it came to stuff outside the ring. Actually, it's the kind of ruthless drive you want to see in the Suits who have a major role in the WWE business. You know your dedication is top notch when people like Jim Cornette never take a single shot at him for it.

-I'll admit wholeheartedly that I'm not aware how much money Cena has made for WWE and how that profit stacks up compared to Hogan and the others you've mentioned.It's probably irrelevent anyway since there's so much more to take on.

-I'll echo MrJay's question. Who exactly has John Cena out and out buried? Are we using the traditional standard or smark standard to determine this?

-You'd think a 'Stale as Shit' John Cena would drive virtually everybody in the stadium to the restrooms or the concession stands the moment he shows up.

 

[Bernkastel]

I'd like to argue the point with you if you don't mind? Misawa was huge big enough that he was the top star in the biggest era of Japanese wrestling.

It's was a big era, but not the biggest. Rikidozan's era was the biggest. Inoki's through the 70's and 80's was second. AJPW in the 90's was third. By that I'd name Misawa the third biggest star to come out of Japan.

Best wrestler of the time (imo all time) and he took part in not only the most memorable matches in AJPW and NOAH but he also had the bigger feuds imo.

Probably. In his match with Taker last year I had people wanking Meltzer claiming Hashimoto was bigger draw... but history/numbers/ratings whatever doesn't agree with that. Plus Misawa was given like a bajillion 5 star matches from Meltzer away. So that argument got old fast.

Jumbo Tsuruta, Kobashi, and Taue. He changed the wrestling world when he opened NOAH.

I wouldn't say the world. But he did change the puroresu scene.

Not only that but when he did it was only a few years before NOAH was the biggest promotion in Japan, and what happened to stop it? Misawa's death, after that moment, everything went on the decline. Misawa's importance can't be overstated.

NOAH was in trouble before that due to the drop in economy. Misawa's death was another "nail in the coffin" for them. NOAH isn't dead, but it is a shell of what it once was. As is AJPW for that matter.

That said I have him above Verne, Race, and Cena atm.

What puts Gagne over Misawa is because he was basically the #2 during Thesz's prime. He's proven himself against all the big names of his era, and has wins over Inoki... which were rare for an American. Couple that with his success with booking AWA as a major promotion for 20 years puts him over. NOAH didn't even last 10.

Race too. But maybe I'm overestimating him but I don't think I am. Cena not only has longevity on his side, but WWE has been able to go global thanks to him. It's true that Cena [and every other modern star] draws what they do because WWE as a brand draws. But part of the reason WWE is a drawing brand today is because of Cena.

What hurts Misawa is that Japan has a small population. It's the same thing that hurts Big Daddy. Despite that Misawa was drawing 70,000+ at the Bodukan for PPV's with AJPW and NOAH.

Inoki had a better cross over appeal than Misawa which is the one thing that lacks from his historic career. Misawa was as big as they come in Japan, and only is surpassed by Rikidozan, Inoki, and possibly Baba(although i disagree with that) To me the legacy debate is hard but Misawa's presence was as large as anyone in Japanese wrestling, the only reason he will never be on the same level as some others is because the Japanese have a profound respect for their elders and the past.

It's mostly opinion I'm sure. Though this board does have a strong "WWE and American promotions > everything and everyone else in history" mindset.

 

[Zycho32]

Well there's the entire Nexus, there's Ryback, Zack Ryder, The Miz, Dolph Ziggler, R-Truth, Bobby Lashley and there's a few others. John Cena is the opposite of King Midas, everything he touches turns to shit. Once those wrestlers became assoicated with John Cena whether it be a partnership or in a feud it all went downhill and so did their careers. You cannot deny that. The Nexus has to be the biggest example of that

Alright, time to break it down;

The Nexus:
-A team of NXT Rookies who came in looking to make a name for themselves and got punched down multiple times in the span of half a year and couldn't even be resurrected by CM Punk before they dissolved. A couple took on new identities to varying degrees of success. But I'm not sure what you were expecting from a group of rookies without much distinction and character on an individual basis.

Zack Ryder:
-I'm not sure what he really showed when he was popular. I mean, outside of the character, what did he have to help himself recover from being tortured by Kane?

The Miz:
-Much the same. I would argue he was worth more as part of Awesome Truth than he was as WWE Champion, given that he wasn't just overshadowed by John Cena but also The Rock. Him being Champion at the time of Wrestlemania leaves me perplexed. Could you enlighten me there?

Dolph Ziggler:
-Funny, I thought Ziggler started getting shat on AFTER his program with Cena ended. I also thought Ziggler was pushed upwards AFTER his program with Cena ended too, since he was in the WHC picture before things started going bad.

R-Truth:
-I'm assuming he's a package deal with The Miz, as they were put down hard during Survivor Series. But after his dalliance in the title picture, really, where was he going to go?

Bobby Lashley:
-Didn't he up and LEAVE WWE after his match with Cena even though he was being groomed as the next big babyface by Vince McMahon (who all but SABOTAGUED the ECW program to get Lashley over)?

 

[MrJay]

Well there's the entire Nexus, there's Ryback, Zack Ryder, The Miz, Dolph Ziggler, R-Truth, Bobby Lashley and there's a few others. John Cena is the opposite of King Midas, everything he touches turns to shit. Once those wrestlers became assoicated with John Cena whether it be a partnership or in a feud it all went downhill and so did their careers. You cannot deny that. The Nexus has to be the biggest example of that

Sure I can deny it because it isn't true. Wasn't Daniel Bryan in Nexus? He's on the verge of becoming the biggest superstar in the company. Barrett has been a three time Intercontinental champion. That's far from being "buried" Now could they be doing more with Barrett,sure, but I won't say he's being buried.

Zack Ryder is someone I never saw the appeal with in the first place. Same with The Miz. Zigglers outspokeness towards the company is the reason he's in the doghouse, not because of anything Cena did to him. R-Truth being suspended for drugs is what halted his momentum. And I have to laugh at the fact that you think something other than the fact that he was bland and boring is what killed Bobby Lashleys momentum.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

It's was a big era, but not the biggest. Rikidozan's era was the biggest. Inoki's through the 70's and 80's was second. AJPW in the 90's was third. By that I'd name Misawa the third biggest star to come out of Japan.

Aight, I will admit that my knowledge of Rikidozan's era is huge so yeah, I know it's the most talked about era but I'll admit any day that Riki is bigger than anyone there.

Probably. In his match with Taker last year I had people wanking Meltzer claiming Hashimoto was bigger draw... but history/numbers/ratings whatever doesn't agree with that. Plus Misawa was given like a bajillion 5 star matches from Meltzer away. So that argument got old fast.

Misawa was a huge draw the problem was that his drawing was with the other big draws. But he was the biggest

I wouldn't say the world. But he did change the puroresu scene.

Well, it's a major influence with the indies including ROH, so I'd say it had some effect on the world scene.

NOAH was in trouble before that due to the drop in economy. Misawa's death was another "nail in the coffin" for them. NOAH isn't dead, but it is a shell of what it once was. As is AJPW for that matter.

Good point but Noah had a chance to fight that off with him but without him it was just the harshest of nails.

What puts Gagne over Misawa is because he was basically the #2 during Thesz's prime. He's proven himself against all the big names of his era, and has wins over Inoki... which were rare for an American. Couple that with his success with booking AWA as a major promotion for 20 years puts him over. NOAH didn't even last 10.

I think that Misawa's death had more to do with that than anything. Difference in opinion and all. But that said I see your points and they are very logical. I think Misawa is a bigger name in Japan than Gange is here. Misawa was the number one guy in probably the most talented era(arguable but it had the best ME sense imo) of all time.

Race too. But maybe I'm overestimating him but I don't think I am. Cena not only has longevity on his side, but WWE has been able to go global thanks to him. It's true that Cena [and every other modern star] draws what they do because WWE as a brand draws. But part of the reason WWE is a drawing brand today is because of Cena.

Agree but Race is no Misawa imo. Maybe i'm overstating Misawa, he's my second favorite wrestler of all time. He drew like a monster in a small country and kept himself on top for 24 years in two companies that were huge when he was on top

What hurts Misawa is that Japan has a small population. It's the same thing that hurts Big Daddy. Despite that Misawa was drawing 70,000+ at the Bodukan for PPV's with AJPW and NOAH.

Agreed, Misawa being in a small population does hurt, but his legacy to me is as big as any.

It's mostly opinion I'm sure. Though this board does have a strong "WWE and American promotions > everything and everyone else in history" mindset.

I'm just happy I can have a debate with someone that actually doesn't have that mindset lol. I hardly ever talk about Misawa on here because it might be a waste of time. That said, once I saw Santo and Rikidozan on your list I rush to it lol.

 

[Eyebrows]

Wrestling fans are the only group of fans I know who measure what is best based on the amount of tickets sold.

I understand why drawing ability is considered when examining the contributions of pro-wrestling but the 'wrestling is a business, so money is the only thing we can use to measure ability' doesn't hold water with me. I can see why people use it because it's impossible to look at anything else when it comes to forming an objective opinion. Despite what some people tell you otherwise, wrestling IS an artform, insofar as it involves a craft. The WWE is a business enterprise but making money, making entertainment and making art are not mutually exclusive ventures. So I'll offer some comparisons.

Music: (Figures from Celeb Net Worth)
Rihanna is worth $95 million as is Katy Perry. Bieber has amassed $160 with over 15 million albums sold.

Leonard Cohen is worth $20 million, no small figure but still dwarfed by the above artists. On an even smaller scale, James Mercer has 6mill and Isaac Brock has 5mill. Since Rihanna, Bieber and Katy Perry have sold more albums than Leonard Cohen does that mean they're better than he is?

Movies: (Figures from Box Office Mojo)
Twilight: Eclipse earned over 300mill at the US Box Office. Reservoir Dogs earned just shy of 3 million dollars. George Clooney, who I like, is a massive Box Office Draw but he isn't a significantly more talented actor than Paul Giamatti.

Twilight: Eclipse is not a better film than Reservoir Dogs.

Books:
Fifty Shades of Grey has sold over 100 million copies. Catch-22 sold 30,000 in it's first year. It has taken decades for it to reach 10 million copies sold.

Catch-22 is the better book.

I'm not comparing John Cena's contributions to wrestling to be the same as the contributions Fifty Shades of Grey made to literature (none) but those extreme examples illustrate the point that sales and drawing figures can't be used to demonstrate the creative or artistic value of a given actor, musician, novelist or wrestler. I understand that art is subjective but, while there's room for debate when it comes to personal preferences, anybody that suggests Bieber is better than Leonard Cohen is plain wrong.

So yeah, John Cena deserves to be in the top 5 if you consider drawing ability. And he clearly has wrestling and promo skills. But I can think of a couple dozen people who I think are more talented than him in various categories who have been in the WWF/WWE over the years. And they aren't just mid-card, nostalgia picks either I genuinely think they're better. I don't think he can hold a candle to guys who are touted less than Rock/Austin/Hogan/Flair/Hart for their contributions to pro-wrestling. Steamboat, Mr. Perfect, Chris Jericho or Kurt Angle, for example. Outsell them, sure, a bigger star, yeah, but certainly not more talented.

For anybody approaching this from the viewpoint of 'Cena has made a lot of money' try approaching it from the viewpoint of 'Given the choice, would I rather watch Cena than X'.

 

[Galvatron]

I voted top 5. For me the WWE only list is (1) Hogan, (2) Sammartino, (3) Rock, (4) Austin and (5) Cena. If the list included all wrestling companies, I would put Cena as 6 because Flair would be 3. Hogan and Sammartino are untouchable as 1 and 2. I could see myself putting Cena as 3 by the time his career is over. This is all just my opinion.

 

[kwig2121]

Had to get in on this one, this is a great question. I have followed WWE wrestling since it used to come on at 12 midnight on Saturday nights on Channel 9 in NY. I just missed Sammartino....Superstar Graham. Came in as a kid watching Bob Backlund then Hogan...the rest is History!

I'm not going to include any of the NWA/WCW stars in this discussion as they were not with the exception of Flair the same characters in WWE/WWF.

So here is my top WWE superstars of all time!

1. Hulk Hogan-simple, Hogan put wrestling on the mainstream map. Movies, TV shows, but most importantly made wrestling a viable PPV option. He was the builder of modern day wrestling.

2. Steve Austin-Stone Cold made wrestling much see TV. He made this a male soap opera. The boss vs the employee. This made wrestling a HOT cable tv product. It was must see TV. One of the greatest characters of all time.

3. The Rock- He made wrestling main stream. A muscle bound guy who can act. Sing. Conduct great interviews, hell even host Saturday Night live. The most recognizable wrestler of all time.

4. Bruno Sammartino- he was before my time, but during his ERA it was all about the house shows. Sammartino's ability to draw people live made wrestling an entertainment event for the family. Like the circus, Sammartino was able to sell out famous arena's and kept wrestling relevant.

5. John Cena- This guy has given every ounce of himself back to the business. Helping the young stars come up. Making kids wishes come true. The premiere pitchman of his generation. Unlike Austin Cena hasn't had a rival like Rock. Hogan had Savage..even Andre. You don't have to like him, but Cena has earned his spot through hard work and dedication as one of the top 5 WWE performers of all time.

6. HHH- Yes him marrying the Bosses daughter loses some of his shine. But this guy was good. Great on the mic. Masterful in the ring. He came from nothing as Terra-rising to make himself one of the greats of all time. Too bad he married a Mcmahon because he will never crack the top 5.

7. Randy Savage-He had it all man. He could wrestle. Had crazy mic skills. A true superstar...this guy should have long ago been in the HOF.

8. Shawn Michaels-Ovverated in my eyes. Michaels couldn't draw or sell. Nor could he stay in the ring for long periods of time so that's why I have him low on the list. But for one match...this guy was money.

9. Bret Hart- Austin/Rock, Hogan/Savage are synomous. So is Michaels/Hart. Bret was the better wrestler. Michaels the better showman. Put em together and Michaels who was money on the mic is better than Bret by that much. They will be forever linked.

10. The Undertaker-Greatest WWE gimmick of all time. A zombie guy that lasts for like 20 plus years and to this day the fans go ga ga for him. Didn't have as many titles as the rest but he was one of the best ever.