What if the Jeff Hardy Situation is Just a Work?

[Stevolutionary]

First of all, let me say I am not a fan of kayfabe out of the ring. I believe the story and drama should be kept on the shows and PPVs, but out the ring and in interviews, the wrestlers should not work the audience and should behave as regular working actors.

However... I know a lot of people bemoan the general decline of kayfabe, so how would you feel if it turned out the Jeff Hardy situation turned out to be a work?

Think about it. When was the last time you truly hated a heel? Not in a Vickie or Cole manner where you hate the character, but are always aware they're playing a role, but actually felt genuine hate towards a wrestler as a human being? That's what people are starting to feel towards Jeff Hardy, and he's rapidly becoming that rare thing in modern wrestling - an actual believable villain. Someone who makes you angry when they appear on TV, not in a suspension of disbelief manner, but in a real, genuine, way.

Now, even then, I think it's bad move as he's making people turn away from the product with his behaviour, not tune in, but still, if you're a fan of old-school kayfabe and this does turn out to be a work, you must give creative kudos for creating someone the audience truly despises and making you genuinely believe in the reality of it. When he made his character's heel turn, may people doubted his ability to portray a heel very well or generate much heat, but now he's possibly become the most despised person in wrestling. If this is all purely a work, then it's been a masterstroke of character building (if not actually converting that into viewers)

I must state though, I just think he was stoned and the whole situation is a massive screw-up...

 

[Rayne]

if you're a fan of old-school kayfabe and this does turn out to be a work, you must give creative kudos for creating someone the audience truly despises and making you genuinely believe in the reality of it.

If this is all purely a work, then it's been a masterstroke of character building (if not actually converting that into viewers)

I don't know how many times this can be said until it sinks in.

The final goal of a worked shoot isn't to make people believe it's real. The final goal of a worked shoot is not to provide depth for a character. The final goal of a worked shoot is to create a controversy which can be translated into increased viewership and increased money.

If a worked shoot does not do this, then it is a failure by definition.

You don't have to give TNA "creative kudos" just for fooling people. Should I be given props if I offer someone a $10 bill, then slap them in the face when they reach for it? Fooling people is really, really easy, especially professional wrestling fans, some of the most gullible people on the planet. I'd give them creative kudos if they managed to turn this situation to their favor, a la the Montreal Screwjob, but I do not have faith in the minds at TNA to perform that kind of successful spin job, nor have I been given any reason to have faith in them.

The only reason I can see that people still want to say "but what IF this is a work" is that people around here are so worried about preserving their precious smark cred around here that they won't take a firm stand on what they believe. That way, they can say they were never fooled by TNA, because they're a smart fan.

 

[Richard]

It's not that he's a believable villain, he's a drugged up, irresponsible human being who shouldn't have been let out to wrestle. I hate him for his constant drug abuse and unwillingness to let it go and become a true professional.

It's not a work. If it was a work, TNA wouldn't be giving out 6 months online access to their videos and shit or whatever they're letting people access. Before they announced they were doing that, it could have very well been a work but they're not just going to give away some of their product for free.

I firmly believe it was another Jeff Hardy drug fuck up situation. He has proven so many times he's a drug fuck, it was only a matter of time before it became evident on TV.

 

[Casban]

I really do not believe it was all a work. If it was why would TNA offer an Apology and 6 months free on TNAondemand.com also there would not be much to gain. its risky and could turn people away sure people will be likely to tune in to find out what becomes of this but it wouldnt do the company any good but it would certainly hurt Hardys Career

 

[VinnieSunshine]

Look Im tired of this this whole "Is it a work or was it really real?"

Frankly I dont care. Work or not you DO NOT create a character as horrible as Jeff Hardy has turned out, especially as popular as he is with kids. You also DO NOT have a main event PPV match where the entrances and faking throing a shirt last longer than the actual match itself.

As far as TNA trying to bring in viewers...not happening. At least for me. I could care less at this point. Dixie has lost ALL control (BTW dont play that game either of "who's in control" between Hogan and Dixie because we all know the answer) of everything. This is the reason why Vince and WWE do not see them as competition.

Ill be surprised if TNA is still around by this time next year. I feel sorry for the MOST of the TNA locker room and for Sting...although he did that to himself.

Just like part of my signature says...TNA IS JUST AROUND TO SATISFY THE DIE-HARD WRESTLING FANS WITH SOMETHING TO WATCH WHEN WWE ISN'T ON.

 

[Stevolutionary]

I don't know how many times this can be said until it sinks in.

The final goal of a worked shoot isn't to make people believe it's real. The final goal of a worked shoot is not to provide depth for a character. The final goal of a worked shoot is to create a controversy which can be translated into increased viewership and increased money.

If a worked shoot does not do this, then it is a failure by definition.

You don't have to give TNA "creative kudos" just for fooling people. Should I be given props if I offer someone a $10 bill, then slap them in the face when they reach for it? Fooling people is really, really easy, especially professional wrestling fans, some of the most gullible people on the planet. I'd give them creative kudos if they managed to turn this situation to their favor, a la the Montreal Screwjob, but I do not have faith in the minds at TNA to perform that kind of successful spin job, nor have I been given any reason to have faith in them.

The only reason I can see that people still want to say "but what IF this is a work" is that people around here are so worried about preserving their precious smark cred around here that they won't take a firm stand on what they believe. That way, they can say they were never fooled by TNA, because they're a smart fan.

Well, my post basically agrees with your opinion. As I said, this doesn't translate into viewership so is a failure if it is a work, and even saying that, I don't believe at all it is a work. The only reason i'd believe it could possibly be a work is not to preserve any credibility, but due to my lack of faith in the ability of Hogan, et al, to not to do such a boneheaded move. With more professional leadership I wouldn't for a second think this was worked, but with more professional leadership, Hardy wouldn't even be let into the ring. I only give credit for fooling people because it's an industry founded on fakery.

I'd give you credit if you could get someone to go for the $10 if they'd already seen you slap 100 people in a row. That's a more apt comparison. The fact you'd piss off those 100 people and they'd never come back would also draw parallels here with Hardy, and for all the kudos i'd give you as a writer, i'd slam you for being an awful businessman. That's (kinda) my point. From a business perspective, yes it's a failure, but not everything needs to be appreciated through the lens of "draw or fail". THAT'S the true smark attitude. I'm a viewer, not a shareholder, therefore I can still appreciate angles that fail on a business level.

Again, I state, I don't believe this is a work, and the only suspicion I have is not due to smarkiness, but more due to understanding Hogan and his cronies putting needless swerves ahead of good business, and them not understanding the goal of a worked shoot like you detailed above. I may not be a sharholder, but they have a responsibility to them. I may be able to appreciate elements of a failed angle, but they shouldn't.

 

[Casban]

I watch both WWE and TNA i have watched WWE since the mid 90's and TNA now for 2 years and the last couple years i have not liked WWE i have found it a bit boring and i watch TNA and feel exited and alot more enjoyable i am not knocking WWE its alright and i enjoy watching it to a certain extent but TNA is alot more exiteing for me.

 

[Stevolutionary]

It's not that he's a believable villain, he's a drugged up, irresponsible human being who shouldn't have been let out to wrestle. I hate him for his constant drug abuse and unwillingness to let it go and become a true professional.

It's not a work. If it was a work, TNA wouldn't be giving out 6 months online access to their videos and shit or whatever they're letting people access. Before they announced they were doing that, it could have very well been a work but they're not just going to give away some of their product for free.

I firmly believe it was another Jeff Hardy drug fuck up situation. He has proven so many times he's a drug fuck, it was only a matter of time before it became evident on TV.

Again, i'm just playing devil's advocate here, but if he isn't in reality "a drugged up, irresponsible human being who shouldn't have been let out to wrestle", then they've done a masterwork in making you believe that. The fact they've completely fucked up the goal (to profit from that) is not what i'm talking about. I'm just saying if it is a work, Hardy's done a hell of a job of making people believe it, but others have dropped to ball in terms of monetizing that.

I think he is genuinely a druggie though. I'm just opening up a "what if" discussion.

The online access thing isn't relevent to the discussion. For all we know they could be doing that as a way to promote the service, hoping people new to the service will continue to subscribe once the 6 months are up. MMOs give you one $15-$20 month free to get you hooked, this business model is not much different (6 x $3 = $18 free)

 

[Gregory Helms]

If it's a work, it's a horrible work, and will most likely cause them to lose viewers.

 

[The Hardcore Kid]

The online access thing isn't relevent to the discussion. For all we know they could be doing that as a way to promote the service, hoping people new to the service will continue to subscribe once the 6 months are up. MMOs give you one $15-$20 month free to get you hooked, this business model is not much different (6 x $3 = $18 free)

Yeah. To be honest the fact that they are issuing an apology and giving away On Demand videos was the first thing that made me think it might actually be a work (I don't think it's a work, I still think he's really just a fuck-up, but giving away on demand content won't hurt their profits, and can easily be used as publicity for the service)

 

[It's Damn Real!]

A work that costs TNA 6 months of free access to TNA On Demand (or whatever it's called) for every customer who bought the PPV that mails in a copy of their bill? You're out of your mind, man — that's a pathetic failure of a business strategy if you think "fooling" the fans is worth more than losing money out of pocket to thousands, if not tens of thousands of potential fans who were upset over what happened.

 

[tcannon2007]

Where is this apology everyone is speaking of I haven't heard anything about it. Is it on their website?

 

[UFOcalling]

First of all, I seriously doubt any of this is a work. If it wasn't for Jeff's rap-sheet (drug abuse / drug possesion / legal battles), then maybe I could entertain the thought. There is a slight chance of it being a work, but it's such a slim chance that it's honestly silly to even entertain the thought of this being anything other than legit.

I will play along though, and answer your question:

how would you feel if it turned out the Jeff Hardy situation turned out to be a work?

I would feel pretty much the same as I do now. The only real feeling that would change is a relief for Jeff Hardy (the person, not the wrestling character). I feel genuinely bad for the guy, even though he really has no one to blame but himself. A lot of addicts can't stop using on their own, and I really hope that he's able to accept help and is able to quit. Not only for his sake, but also his family's, his career, and his fans.

If this did (somehow) turn out to be an elaborate work, I wouldn't feel like TNA Creative was being "clever" either. Like it's been said so many times before, the goal of a "work" is to generate money/ratings. It doesn't look like TNA generated anything with this, other than a lot of pissed off fans. Just because TNA was able to "fool" me (or us, as the case may be), doesn't make any of this justifiable.

I just hope that Jeff is able to deal with his demons in a healthy way, and is okay in "real life" before he even considers working as a pro-wrestler again.

edit:
I forgot to mention that I actually thought that Jeff was becoming a better heel over the past couple of months. His promos were getting better, and his character was actually gaining some momentum. I really don't think that a "work" was necessary to get him more over as a heel...especially a work of this magnitude.

I honestly wouldn't feel differently about the Jeff Hardy "pro-wrestling bad guy"-character if this somehow did turn out to be a work, I think creative should be touted (not praised) if that is the case (although I do believe all of this to be "real").

 

[Stevolutionary]

A work that costs TNA 6 months of free access to TNA On Demand (or whatever it's called) for every customer who bought the PPV that mails in a copy of their bill? You're out of your mind, man — that's a pathetic failure of a business strategy if you think "fooling" the fans is worth more than losing money out of pocket to thousands, if not tens of thousands of potential fans who were upset over what happened.

*sigh* It's called MARKETING. How many people do you think were even aware TNA had an on-demand service before now?

If even 5% of people who sign up for the free 6 months (which will cost TNA nothing but slightly increased server fees seeing as they weren't paying subscribers anyway) like the on-demand service and stay on as now paying customers, they'll make a profit.

Anway, you're missing two key points (as have previous posters)...

1) I DON'T think this was a work. I was asking "what if?"
2) Just because it would be stupid and a business failure doesn't mean it isn't a work - this IS Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff we're talking about...

That's all I wanted to prompt discussion about.

 

[Stevolutionary]

First of all, I seriously doubt any of this is a work. If it wasn't for Jeff's rap-sheet (drug abuse / drug possesion / legal battles), then maybe I could entertain the thought. There is a slight chance of it being a work, but it's such a slim chance that it's honestly silly to even entertain the thought of this being anything other than legit.

I will play along though, and answer your question:

I would feel pretty much the same as I do now. The only real feeling that would change is a relief for Jeff Hardy (the person, not the wrestling character). I feel genuinely bad for the guy, even though he really has no one to blame but himself. A lot of addicts can't stop using on their own, and I really hope that he's able to accept help and is able to quit. Not only for his sake, but also his family's, his career, and his fans.

If this did (somehow) turn out to be an elaborate work, I wouldn't feel like TNA Creative was being "clever" either. Like it's been said so many times before, the goal of a "work" is to generate money/ratings. It doesn't look like TNA generated anything with this, other than a lot of pissed off fans. Just because TNA was able to "fool" me (or us, as the case may be), doesn't make any of this justifiable.

I just hope that Jeff is able to deal with his demons in a healthy way, and is okay in "real life" before he even considers working as a pro-wrestler again.

I pretty much agree with all of this.

The only reason I would be impressed if it was a work was due to the levels of legit hate (not Vickie or Cole manufactured hate) for a wrestler not seen since people believed it was real, which in today's environment would be an impressive feat.

The fact (if this was real) that they'd had completely screwed up in terms of the business side by ruining their No. 1 asset in terms of merchandise and kiddie appeal (Jeff) and actually drove viewers away is a different argument to me, because that doesn't mean it'd be impossible to turn such an angle into a draw if used again more intelligently.

I just think it'd be interesting if such genuine animosity could be still manufactured and used in a profitable manner some way, as it is almost an unheard of quantity these days, and it's the kind of hate that sold out arenas back in the day when people thought everything was legit and people would pay good money to see Flair get his face smashed in when he came to your town because you hated HIM. Not the character, but the man himself.

REAL hate, if done right, has the potential to be far more profitable than obviously manufactured hate, and that's why i'd be (partially) impressed if this was a work as they'd have ressurected a type of animosity thought impossible in today's savvy environment, while admittedly completely failing on the business side.

HOWEVER - Again, I don't think it is a work, but Hogan and Bischoff being the incompetent, angle recycling, golden goose killers that they are does make me keep a slightly open mind. They've done the 1 minute PPV main event how many times now? They've made terrible business decisions how many times now? If they're willing to make light of Angle's divorce and drag the kids into an angle, then I don't see how blurring the lines between Jeff's drug history and the story would be off limits for them.

Just because something is stupid and improbable and bad business doesn't make it impossible - especially for a creative team with as much history of these types of boneheaded decisons as Hogan, Bischoff and Russo.

 

[UFOcalling]

Originally Posted by It's Damn Real!
A work that costs TNA 6 months of free access to TNA On Demand (or whatever it's called) for every customer who bought the PPV that mails in a copy of their bill? You're out of your mind, man — that's a pathetic failure of a business strategy if you think "fooling" the fans is worth more than losing money out of pocket to thousands, if not tens of thousands of potential fans who were upset over what happened.

I understand your point, and I agree with it to some degree. I agree that TNA wouldn't have made such an offer, unless they were caught with their pants around their ankles (for real, not as a "work").

The thing that I haven't seen anyone really make mention of yet, is that giving the PPV-buyers six free months of On Demand service really doesn't cost them anything. The website is already in place, all they have to do is give them a username & password. It's not like they're giving away merch or something, the only thing they have to be concerned about is extra traffic on the website.

My point is that giving away free web access doesn't really cost TNA anything in the long-run, except maybe extra bandwidth on their site. In my opinion, this isn't really much of a "refund" for the fans.

It's also possible that if all of this was a work (even though I believe it's not), this would be a good way for TNA to "work" the fans into believing they were getting something for free (which they are, although it's not really costing the company anything). Does that make sense?

 

[airvar]

Ok.. First off it wasn't a "work", but it seems everyone agrees on that so I will answer the thread's question ..

If I found out this was a work I would NEVER pay for a TNA PPV Again.. If they actually planned to screw over there fans with a 1 minute and 30 second main event that many dished out there hard earned entertainment dollar's to see then I could literally NEVER trust them again.

If this did come out as a work, how could you? How could you possibly allow yourself to buy a PPV knowing full well they PLANNED and BOOKED a 1 minute and 30 second main event to "Swerve" the fans.. You swerve the fans on Impact, not a PPV that a select few are actually ponying up money to buy..

This isn't an impact episode on TV for free, this isn't a waste of an hour or two of my life.. People payed for this PPV, people payed them money , thousands of people to see this match.. It was your main event, and your biggest draw, and you let it last 1 minute and 30 seconds..

The only way any type of promotion can get away with a one minute and 30 second main event is if that promotions name is UFC, and it's because the main event is actually REAL and they have no control over how good the fight is going to be.

People pay for wrestling PPV's in lieu of stuff like UFC to AVOID the main event lasting 2 punchs and a quick knock out..

If this is ever came to light as a work TNA would never be viewed the same way again.. Right now a fuck - up druggie cost the company thousands of dollars, and severly damaged there reputation.. If it was put out there that the match was orginally planned like that, then the only person who would really benfit is Jeff Hardy and his reputation.. Unfortatly like I said TNA, would never fully recover from a P.R. hit like that..

 

[Stevolutionary]

Ok.. First off it wasn't a "work", but it seems everyone agrees on that so I will answer the thread's question ..

If I found out this was a work I would NEVER pay for a TNA PPV Again.. If they actually planned to screw over there fans with a 1 minute and 30 second main event that many dished out there hard earned entertainment dollar's to see then I could literally NEVER trust them again.

If this did come out as a work, how could you? How could you possibly allow yourself to buy a PPV knowing full well they PLANNED and BOOKED a 1 minute and 30 second main event to "Swerve" the fans.. You swerve the fans on Impact, not a PPV that a select few are actually ponying up money to buy..

This isn't an impact episode on TV for free, this isn't a waste of an hour or two of my life.. People payed for this PPV, people payed them money , thousands of people to see this match.. It was your main event, and your biggest draw, and you let it last 1 minute and 30 seconds..

The only way any type of promotion can get away with a one minute and 30 second main event is if that promotions name is UFC, and it's because the main event is actually REAL and they have no control over how good the fight is going to be.

People pay for wrestling PPV's in lieu of stuff like UFC to AVOID the main event lasting 2 punchs and a quick knock out..

If this is ever came to light as a work TNA would never be viewed the same way again.. Right now a fuck - up druggie cost the company thousands of dollars, and severly damaged there reputation.. If it was put out there that the match was orginally planned like that, then the only person who would really benfit is Jeff Hardy and his reputation.. Unfortatly like I said TNA, would never fully recover from a P.R. hit like that..

Again, I agree with all of this.

It's lose-lose for TNA. Are you a company that screws the hardcore fans - the PPV buyers? (again though, Hogan has repeated history here...) or are you a company that puts an addict on a pedestal and risks the health of its employees?

Only way out is a series of firings.

If it's a work, remove the creative team responsible for the short main event. If it it's real, remove Jeff Hardy, and quickly, and possibly the person who sent him to the ring rather than changing the main event. Was Anderson or RVD not in the building for this very type of contingency?

I must state though, it's the 1 minute PPV main event people are pissed about, not the concept of a truly hated champion/main eventer. The 1 minute match is truly unforgiveable, but the legit hated champ is the idea that I do think has legs and takes skill to pull off.

 

[abuduru1]

It isn't a work. Hardy fucked up big time. If it was a work, it'd be pretty mediocre in my opinion.

 

[UFOcalling]

Originally Posted by Stevolutionary
The only reason I would be impressed if it was a work was due to the levels of legit hate (not Vickie or Cole manufactured hate) for a wrestler not seen since people believed it was real, which in today's environment would be an impressive feat.

I do see your point. I think that if it was not for Jeff's history (like I mentioned above, with his drug abuse/possesion/etc), something like this could work as a "work" (ha!) to artificially manufacture real "hatred" toward a particular wrestler. Your Flair reference works perfectly for your example, as well.

I think that if TNA did really manufacture that main event scenario, then Russo (along with the rest of TNA creative) is an even more disgusting human being than I imagined him to be before all of this happened. Even if Jeff was to agree to such a "work" (I keep using quotes because all of this is hypothetical), I don't think that the fans would feel like it was clever enough to completely ruin the main event of their PPV...especially such a high-profile match, like Sting vs. Hardy for the World Title.

For as little credit that people like to give TNA Creative in the first place, I still feel that I can give them enough credit that they would have known such a "storyline" would only generate negative feelings toward the entire company. I don't think that even TNA Creative could believe that such a "work" could make Jeff a more "hated heel" or whatever. I hope that makes sense. Good discussion, btw.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I understand your point, and I agree with it to some degree. I agree that TNA wouldn't have made such an offer, unless they were caught with their pants around their ankles (for real, not as a "work").

The thing that I haven't seen anyone really make mention of yet, is that giving the PPV-buyers six free months of On Demand service really doesn't cost them anything. The website is already in place, all they have to do is give them a username & password. It's not like they're giving away merch or something, the only thing they have to be concerned about is extra traffic on the website.

My point is that giving away free web access doesn't really cost TNA anything in the long-run, except maybe extra bandwidth on their site. In my opinion, this isn't really much of a "refund" for the fans.

It's also possible that if all of this was a work (even though I believe it's not), this would be a good way for TNA to "work" the fans into believing they were getting something for free (which they are, although it's not really costing the company anything). Does that make sense?

It doesn't matter what it costs them. It costs them, period. No company can be that stupid that they think that fooling their own fans is worth more than actually retaining the profit they pulled in from the event that was responsible for it. That is asinine logic. It makes no sense whatsoever.

This is fans looking for something that isn't there as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Prince Punk]

Cuddo's.... Like Hell!!! If it is a work. I will fly down to florida and bitch slap the entire TNA creative team.... WHY would you have a 90 second match be a work to close out a ppv... That makes Zero sense... That does not deserve praise that deserves a pink slip...

 

[UFOcalling]

Originally Posted by It's Damn Real!
It doesn't matter what it costs them. It costs them, period. No company can be that stupid that they think that fooling their own fans is worth more than actually retaining the profit they pulled in from the event that was responsible for it. That is asinine logic. It makes no sense whatsoever.

This is fans looking for something that isn't there as far as I'm concerned.

Oh, I agree with you. I don't believe that this is a work by any means. I'm just saying that since the On Demand service doesn't really cost TNA anything in the long run, it could be that this "refund" for the fans was already in place (in case it was a work, which I don't believe it is).

I completely agree with your point. I'm not saying that TNA did work the fans, with the On Demand service being their "worked" apology. I'm just saying that if it was a work (which I don't believe it is), six months of online access isn't really costing them anything.

I agree with you wholeheartedly though. I don't think that TNA would have "worked" the fans to this degree, I really believe that they were legitimately caught off guard when Sting called the match early.

I just thought the point of this thread was to speak in the hypothetical, the "what-if?". I'm not saying that I believe it to be true, but just speaking theoretically.

 

[OlderFan]

The people around him are also screwing up to the point where they are starting to bear some responsibility for the problem. When outsiders enable an addict it is the same as putting the drug, or substance of choice, in that addict's hand. If anyone truly wanted to help Jeff Hardy they need to let him fall flat on his face and then have to crawl his way back up again. If he could do it and did do it, as a fan I would have no issue with TNA or WWE welcoming him back on either roster. What TNA is doing now by allowing this to linger is giving Jeff a cushion; as long as the cushion is there he'll never feel the fall and any addict has to feel the fall before recovery can start.

There are similarities here to what happened with Scott Hall and Sean Waltman. Everybody said they needed help, Scott is an alcoholic, Sean is a doper, etc. yet all of their friends and the people around them are drinkers. That is not the environment for somebody whose recovery is just starting because there is no chance for better choices to get a foothold in the addicts life.

I really hope that somebody insists Jeff gets some help. He is a talented young man and it's a shame to see that go to waste.

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

I don't think its a work because Russo isn't dumb enough to do that. Imagine its a work and people are pissed of and don't watch TNA anymore. What will happen then, well TNA goes down like WCW and TNA will close. I don't think Mcmahon would hire him back so he will be screwed. The thing is, we have no news about what truly happened except that Jeff Hardy was sent home. 2 days and a half and the only news we have is that he (jeff hardy) was sent home, something is fishy. At least in WWE we would know for sure.